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RE: [hockeydisk] an approach question

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  • Mike Haley & Christine Irvine
    Dave, I can do the Wings, but I do not have the time for researching other teams. The Wings, I know inside and out. Mike ... From: D. Atkinson
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 1, 2001
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      Dave,
      I can do the Wings, but I do not have the time for researching other teams.  The Wings, I know inside and out.
      Mike
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: D. Atkinson [mailto:bigdog@...]
      Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 7:41 PM
      To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] an approach question

      Mike Haley & Christine Irvine wrote:
       Dave,Re: Herb's level of detailI am willing to provide that level of detail for all of the Detroit Red Wings Players.Mike Haley


      Sounds good! Do you have time to rate this year?

             Dave

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    • Jerry Howell
      Dave, I have most of the Peck lineups in my trash bin, if you still need them, let me know, and I ll forward them to you.. Jerry. ... --
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 1, 2001
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        Dave,

        I have most of the Peck lineups in my trash bin, if you still need them,
        let me know, and I'll forward them to you..

        Jerry.

        "D. Atkinson" wrote:
        >
        > Derrick Underwood wrote:
        >
        > > I think this idea is a good one. How would you see we would proceed? How
        > > about this idea...
        > >
        > > group players in the ratings table into 3 categories - common, unknown and
        > > rookie. The common players could be rated by a team that see the stars a
        > > bunch. The unknown players could be rated by those guys with no lives (that
        > > insult would be directed to guys like me) that watch 10 + hockey games per
        > > week and use the common scouting reports to get ratings for the lesser
        > > knowns of the league, then have a rookie team that does the rookies of the
        > > league.
        > >
        > > Derrick
        > >
        >
        > This is getting closer, but I'd still like to cut down the amount of unneeded
        > effort.
        > I was thinking more of this:
        > Extract all players which had the same ratings on the past 2 disks.
        > Give them a look over, and see if any have changed. Identify
        > where changes are needed, if not, leave them alone. Most players
        > that haven't changed in the past 2 years are guys in their prime, consistently
        > performing at the same level. We can identify and adjust those that
        > are falling out of that group, but this still saves us from rating from scratch
        > a
        > large number of players that don't need heavy research.
        > I do want to get started. Last year, the testing and tweaking which was working
        > wonders got cut short due to time constraints. I'd like to have 3 weeks to
        > test and tweak this year, to get the disk even closer to perfect.
        > Also, has anyone collected Bob Peck's lineups for the year? If so, please
        > send them on to me. Anyone been working the Hockey News lineups?
        > I'm going to start organizing tasks shortly for those willing to volunteer.
        >
        > Dave
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

        --
        *****************************************************************************
        Jerry Howell
        Westerly, RI, USA
        henchy@...
        http://members.tripod.com/henchy35/
        ICQ 3893092
        NLHA-San Jose Storm OHA-Fresno Fog
        *****************************************************************************
      • D. Atkinson
        ... Yes! I was searching deja/google for all the postings this morning. I parse them out and database them as one of the position sources. Dave
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 1, 2001
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          Jerry Howell wrote:

          > Dave,
          >
          > I have most of the Peck lineups in my trash bin, if you still need them,
          > let me know, and I'll forward them to you..
          >
          > Jerry.
          >

          Yes! I was searching deja/google for all the postings this morning. I parse them
          out and database them as one of the position sources.

          Dave
        • Derrick Underwood
          Hey guys I wrote a quick utility that will pull all of the stats from the NHL site (just the ones I wrote about earlier) and saves them to a mdb. I will write
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 6, 2001
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            Hey guys

            I wrote a quick utility that will pull all of the stats from the NHL site
            (just the ones I wrote about earlier) and saves them to a mdb. I will write
            a quick query to pull out all the data we want in an organized format. I
            will send that out a couple of days after the last game of the season for
            error checking. That will save us the time of cut and pasting.

            Does anyone have a solution for the missing time on ice problem for traded
            players? And does anyone know why Columbus's players' time on ice don't
            seem to reflect the proper amount? - i.e.. Whitney plays 2 games in
            Columbus for a total of 44 games, but has 0 time on ice, and 0 shifts?

            Derrick
            -----Original Message-----
            From: D. Atkinson [mailto:bigdog@...]
            Sent: April 1, 2001 9:17 AM
            To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] an approach question


            Jerry Howell wrote:

            > Dave,
            >
            > I have most of the Peck lineups in my trash bin, if you still need them,
            > let me know, and I'll forward them to you..
            >
            > Jerry.
            >

            Yes! I was searching deja/google for all the postings this morning. I parse
            them
            out and database them as one of the position sources.

            Dave







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          • D. Atkinson
            ... The Hockey News has split ice time for all players. I wonder where they get their stats.....if they get them from the NHL, there must be a second (correct)
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 6, 2001
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              Derrick Underwood wrote:

              > Hey guys
              >
              > I wrote a quick utility that will pull all of the stats from the NHL site
              > (just the ones I wrote about earlier) and saves them to a mdb. I will write
              > a quick query to pull out all the data we want in an organized format. I
              > will send that out a couple of days after the last game of the season for
              > error checking. That will save us the time of cut and pasting.
              >
              > Does anyone have a solution for the missing time on ice problem for traded
              > players? And does anyone know why Columbus's players' time on ice don't
              > seem to reflect the proper amount? - i.e.. Whitney plays 2 games in
              > Columbus for a total of 44 games, but has 0 time on ice, and 0 shifts?
              >
              > Derrick

              The Hockey News has split ice time for all players. I wonder where they
              get their stats.....if they get them from the NHL, there must be a second
              (correct)
              database around.

              Dave
            • Jeff Kraus
              Past experience tells us we always have to double-check NHL.com stats. There s always something wrong somewhere in their stats. ESPN.com has all of the past
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 6, 2001
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                Past experience tells us we always have to double-check NHL.com stats.  There's always something wrong somewhere in their stats.

                ESPN.com has all of the past box scores, so at least we can identify which Nashville & Pittsburgh players played in either or both of the Japan games.  Only in the NHL, and maybe the XFL, could this be a problem.  The only thing we can do is take each guy who played in those games, and add in his season average ice time for each Japan game he played in.  That'll be "close enough".

                All that hassle for a crowd no bigger than you'd get at MCI Center.

                Jeff

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: D. Atkinson
                Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 11:24 PM
                To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] NHL Stats

                Derrick Underwood wrote:

                > Hey guys
                >
                > I wrote a quick utility that will pull all of the stats from the NHL site
                > (just the ones I wrote about earlier) and saves them to a mdb.  I will write
                > a quick query to pull out all the data we want in an organized format.  I
                > will send that out a couple of days after the last game of the season for
                > error checking.  That will save us the time of cut and pasting.
                >
                > Does anyone have a solution for the missing time on ice problem for traded
                > players?  And does anyone know why Columbus's players' time on ice don't
                > seem to reflect the proper amount? - i.e..  Whitney plays 2 games in
                > Columbus for a total of 44 games, but has 0 time on ice, and 0 shifts?
                >
                > Derrick

                The Hockey News has split ice time for all players. I wonder where they
                get their stats.....if they get them from the NHL, there must be a second
                (correct)
                database around.

                              Dave





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              • D. Atkinson
                ... This is what amazes me about the NHL. They want to call themselves a major sport and be recognized as such. However, not taking your stat compiling
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 7, 2001
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                  Jeff Kraus wrote:

                  > Past experience tells us we always have to double-check NHL.com stats.
                  > There's always something wrong somewhere in their stats.
                  >
                  > ESPN.com has all of the past box scores, so at least we can identify which
                  > Nashville & Pittsburgh players played in either or both of the Japan games.
                  > Only in the NHL, and maybe the XFL, could this be a problem. The only thing
                  > we can do is take each guy who played in those games, and add in his season
                  > average ice time for each Japan game he played in. That'll be "close
                  > enough".
                  >
                  > All that hassle for a crowd no bigger than you'd get at MCI Center.
                  >
                  > Jeff

                  This is what amazes me about the NHL. They want to call themselves a major
                  sport and
                  be recognized as such. However, not taking your stat compiling equipment for
                  the
                  Japan games is BUSH LEAGUE. I guarantee you that MLB or the NFL would
                  never do something that stupid. Hockey still has too many ex-NHL'ers in
                  management,
                  usually guys that got hit in the head too many times before helmets were
                  mandatory (like
                  Mike Milbury). Until the NHL gets rid of the unofficial "you don't know the
                  game unless
                  you played in the NHL" attitude, stupid things will keep happening.
                  My 2 cents. I love the game, but I found the sub 75 IQ of most of those in
                  charge
                  to be alarming.

                  Dave
                • Jeff Kraus
                  ... Yeah, I got jaded by that long ago. When I was in high school, I heard my childhood hero, Rod Gilbert, on one of those call-in shows. Made a complete
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 7, 2001
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                    > Until the NHL gets rid of the unofficial "you don't know the
                    > game unless
                    > you played in the NHL" attitude, stupid things will keep happening.
                    > My 2 cents. I love the game, but I found the sub 75 IQ of most of those in
                    > charge to be alarming.

                    Yeah, I got jaded by that long ago.  When I was in high school, I heard my childhood hero, Rod Gilbert, on one of those call-in shows.  Made a complete fool of himself.  And then I read "Thin Ice", that "insider" book about the Rangers circa 1980.  And I thought baseball players were stupid...

                    The amazing thing is football players have the reputation of being dumb.  They sure do some dumb things, but they're probably the smartest of pro team athletes.  Can you imagine some of these baseball or basketball players learning dozens of different variations of the numerous plays & formations?  Never gonna happen.

                    Jeff



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                  • Brett Hall
                    ... This is why you hardly ever see a rookie come right out of college and make any kind of impact in the NFL. Doesn t make me like the game any more, but I
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 7, 2001
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                      > > The amazing thing is football players have the reputation of being dumb. They
                      > > sure do some dumb things, but they're probably the smartest of pro team
                      > > athletes. Can you imagine some of these baseball or basketball players
                      > > learning dozens of different variations of the numerous plays & formations?
                      > > Never gonna happen.

                      This is why you hardly ever see a rookie come right out of college and make
                      any kind of impact in the NFL. Doesn't make me like the game any more,
                      but I certainly have respect for the athletes that successfully make the
                      transition to the pro game.

                      Brett Hall

                      St. Louis Mustangs (GHMHL)
                      St. Louis Sting (WWAHL)
                      St. Louis Ice Lords (NWHL)
                      Tuktoyaktuk Nanuk (RMHL)
                      Grand Cayman Conch (GUMP)
                    • Derrick Underwood
                      I ran a test of my little NHL stats stealing utility. The application does everything by itself once I start it, so it takes me little time to run it. But,
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 7, 2001
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                        I ran a test of my little NHL stats stealing utility. The application does
                        everything by itself once I start it, so it takes me little time to run it.
                        But, the NHL.com site is sooo slow it took over an hour to get all the
                        info - and I have cable internet access with a PIII 800 machine doing the
                        work!! The results can be seen at www.gchl.net/NHLStats.zip. The
                        goaltender stats can be collected from one page, and I will test that
                        tomorrow afternoon.

                        I did no error checking on this excel file, so we might want to have a few
                        guys look at it and see if there is any obvious data problems. I expect the
                        NHL.com stats to be updated by probably Wednesday - they are always a few
                        days behind, so won't be running it again till then. I would appreciate any
                        problem reporting before then if you find anything.

                        Derrick

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Brett Hall [mailto:brett@...]
                        Sent: April 7, 2001 3:48 PM
                        To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] NHL Stats


                        > > The amazing thing is football players have the reputation of being dumb.
                        They
                        > > sure do some dumb things, but they're probably the smartest of pro team
                        > > athletes. Can you imagine some of these baseball or basketball players
                        > > learning dozens of different variations of the numerous plays &
                        formations?
                        > > Never gonna happen.

                        This is why you hardly ever see a rookie come right out of college and make
                        any kind of impact in the NFL. Doesn't make me like the game any more,
                        but I certainly have respect for the athletes that successfully make the
                        transition to the pro game.

                        Brett Hall

                        St. Louis Mustangs (GHMHL)
                        St. Louis Sting (WWAHL)
                        St. Louis Ice Lords (NWHL)
                        Tuktoyaktuk Nanuk (RMHL)
                        Grand Cayman Conch (GUMP)



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