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5028Re: [hockeydisk] Re: discussion on player over/under usage (minutes)

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  • Chris Wolter
    Feb 21, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      dan, would you reiterate what increasing the number of shits actually does?
      chris

      From: Daniel Jeanson <daniel_jeanson@...>
      To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:01 PM
      Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] Re: discussion on player over/under usage (minutes)
       
      In this league of yours I don't think the issue is a cap on games played, 125% is quite generous and doesn't cause any issues. By imposing strict limits on # of shifts or even number of dressed players makes it difficult to maintain a roster and especially for possible trades. It is difficult to trade away some players, especially players of different positions since you have to worry about maintaining your shifts. I have found from experience that increasing the number of shits, even dramatically, often does not increase your player's ice-time. I have Chara on my team and I have often tried to increase his shifts but without any real big increase in ice-time. If there is any change I don't think it makes much of a difference on how your team performs. Having the maximum games makes the biggest difference, not shift times or even the amount of dressed players. I'm sure it would be a lot easier on league management if all they had to worry was overuse on games played and not by micromanaging shifts and dressed players.

      Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 11:26
      Subject: [hockeydisk] Re: discussion on player over/under usage (minutes)

       
      Guys, I appreciate the feedback. In this case, it's not tanking that's the issue at all, it's the opposite...exploiting a guy with low GF but who overperforms in APBA, and having him play way too many minutes. And it's not just one team, it's just sort of a standard in the league, I'm one of the biggest 'culprits'. So I just wanted to get a feel for what people's thoughts were, should stricter limits be set in place to keep minutes played more in line?

      We have injuries off, that's part of the issue (as I understand it a player is more likely to be injured if he goes over his GF). But I'm not going to start using injuries, it makes it much more time consuming for everyone and this is a league the relies on simplicity.

      --- In mailto:hockeydisk%40yahoogroups.com, "Herb Garbutt" wrote:
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      > Last season, the team in second last signed a bad free agent goalie (actually two, after the first one got hurt). I tried to discourage him by giving him the history of how few times the last place team actually got the first pick. He continued anyway and his tanking worked, he dropped to last. In a case of poetic justice, the team that finished second last won the draft lottery.
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      > Our draft lottery, not only selects the first overall pick, but all five non-playoff team spots. And that order holds through every round.
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      > As far as usage, we don’t have any rules about shifts. We have one team that has little depth and goes 19-16-4-1. He eventually got a long-term injury to his No.2 centre and it has really hurt his team.
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      > Herb
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      > From: mailto:hockeydisk%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:hockeydisk%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of D. Atkinson
      > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 9:06 PM
      > To: mailto:hockeydisk%40yahoogroups.com
      > Cc: Bill Corfield
      > Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] discussion on player over/under usage (minutes)
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      > One word: lottery.
      > Those that like to dump games to make their team better will drop out from leagues that use a draft lottery. And it needs to be more than top 2. Yes, there are legit bad teams that will get hurt from time to time, but it is a nice automatic self-correction that helps. I've only seen blatant tanking a couple times, but these guys usually don't last long if a draft lottery cuts their chances.
      > I've had to call it out as a commish, and lost a long term league member once because of it. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Leagues need to have some sort of inherent integrity....that's what makes them fun.
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      > d
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      > On 2/20/2013 4:18 PM, Bill Corfield wrote:
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      > Brad-
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      > I'm the co-founder/co-commish of the CCHL and current commissioner of the LHL.
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      > The LHL is a strict usage league, but we don't regulate how much a team may use a certain player within the context of a given game. Its a bit of a casual league by design and it doesn't seem to be a problem.
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      > In the CCHL, its a bit of a different story. Again, we don't mandate shift minimums/maximums or watch player usage other than goalies, who get 125% of NHL actuals.
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      > We recently ran into an issue where a long term GM in the league brashly began to bench his better players. Eventually we noticed, asked him about it, and were told basically "we all know who's going to win this season, why try?" We instructed him to put his best lineup back on the ice, which caused a bit of a fuss. This same GM then tried to sign a FA goalie, who was worse than his current goalies in order to lose more games, which would improve his draft position, thereby "helping his team."
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      > Our rules stated that GM's must run their teams in a professional manner and implicitly said that the quality of competition was important. This rogue GM tried to exploit some vagueness in our rules and was summarily rejected. He even admitted his "tanking" to the league and let's just say the response wasn't a positive one. We've dealt with it, beefed up the language in our rules and moved on.
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      > The league voted 21-0 in support of rejecting conduct like what I've described in the future
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      > That situation aside, I've always felt that teams running a short roster or maxing out their shifts for the better players assume some risk of poor performance due to fatigue, as well as some increased injury issues.
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      > Whatever is decided upon, I would just stress it be clearly communicated in the rules. Make sure all GM's are aware of it and held accountable evenly...
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      > Cheers,
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      > Bill Corfield
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      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: bradutterstrom
      > To: hockeydisk mailto:hockeydisk%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:hockeydisk%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wed, Feb 20, 2013 1:39 pm
      > Subject: [hockeydisk] discussion on player over/under usage (minutes)
      >
      >
      >
      > Just wanted to get people's thoughts on this as it's been somewhat of an issue in some of my leagues. In one of my leagues we've got very strict rules on player usage, shift minimums and maximums, it seems to be a bit much at times and cause some conflict. In my other leagues there are no such limits in place, but I'm starting to have discussions with some GMs about whether it's worth placing some restrictions.
      >
      > What are your thoughts? What's reasonable for an apba league? Should GMs be allowed to double shift their stars as much as they like, even improving their ice time 5 minutes or more over their game fatigue? Should teams be allowed to dress fewer than the maximum number of players, and/or leave players dressed but completely out of any lines (thus likely to not see more than a minute or two of ice time.)
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      > How have other leagues handled this issue?
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