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Re: Fantastic

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  • tangotiger
    ... Baseball-Reference.com, TheBaseballCube.com, BaseballAlmanac.com, BaseballProspectus.com, REtrosheet.org, and I m sure others, all offer an online baseball
    Message 1 of 22 , Feb 1, 2007
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      --- In hockey-databank@yahoogroups.com, "dsreyn" <dreynolds@...> wrote:
      > As far as the chances of this project killing off hockeydb.com, I
      > honestly don't think there's much to worry about.
      > Baseball-reference.com has continued to grow despite the fact that the
      > underlying data is freely available (there has even been talk of
      > adding employees in the blog recently).
      >
      > Doug

      Baseball-Reference.com, TheBaseballCube.com, BaseballAlmanac.com,
      BaseballProspectus.com, REtrosheet.org, and I'm sure others, all offer
      an online baseball database. For the first, definitely, and the 3rd
      and 4th and 5th, likely, they all used, or started to use, the Lahman
      database, which itself has been spawned into baseball-databank.org.

      The reason they can all exist is because the marketplace supports it.
      Only the 2nd one offers minor league data (and draft data). B-r.com
      and Retro offer PBP data in addition. BP.com offers "adjusted" stats.

      Insofar as hockeydb.com, it's existence can be assured as long as it
      keeps something of value, the most important being the minor league
      data. HockeyDB.com can increase its value by including the PP/SH and
      full plus/minus data, and can decrease its value by giving up its draft
      data. Whether that's a fair trade, both sides can decide.

      Since Ralph is a superb researcher, it would be insane to try,
      intentionally or as a byproduct, to squeeze him out. We need guys like
      Ralph.

      Doug has also proven himself to be quite resourceful, and therefore,
      his efforts need to be fed as well, if we want this thing to grow.

      It is also possible that baseball-reference will eventually get into
      the hockey field (or some other site), be it either by buying out Ralph
      or Doug or going on its own. To that end, the sites that don't grow
      will end up being on the short-end.

      I would have to say that any data that is made available would need to
      be done with almost no limitation, as is Retrosheet and baseball-
      databank (i.e., cite the source). Anything else would be a recipe for
      disaster.

      Tom
    • dsreyn
      I believe the Lahman / Forman team is working on a hockey site. http://www.hockey-reference.com has been reserved by them for over a year, though it s just a
      Message 2 of 22 , Feb 1, 2007
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        I believe the Lahman / Forman team is working on a hockey site.
        http://www.hockey-reference.com has been reserved by them for over a
        year, though it's just a placeholder for now. Lahman apparently has a
        hockey database of his own.

        For what it's worth, there's another site that's been up at least a
        year with a layout undoubtedly based on the sports-reference.com model
        (though lacking most of the usual sports-reference.com bells and
        whistles) at http://www.databasehockey.com (NHL only, with only the
        basic stats).

        Doug

        --- In hockey-databank@yahoogroups.com, "tangotiger" <tangotiger@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > It is also possible that baseball-reference will eventually get into
        > the hockey field (or some other site), be it either by buying out Ralph
        > or Doug or going on its own. To that end, the sites that don't grow
        > will end up being on the short-end.
      • Ralph Slate
        ... On that note, do people actually LIKE the layout of the baseball-reference website? I ve used it on occasion, but I found it maddening to use. On another
        Message 3 of 22 , Feb 1, 2007
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          > I believe the Lahman / Forman team is working on a hockey site.
          > http://www.hockey-reference.com <http://www.hockey-reference.com> has
          > been reserved by them for over a
          > year, though it's just a placeholder for now. Lahman apparently has a
          > hockey database of his own.
          >
          > For what it's worth, there's another site that's been up at least a
          > year with a layout undoubtedly based on the sports-reference.
          >
          > com model
          > (though lacking most of the usual sports-reference.com bells and
          > whistles) at http://www.databasehockey.com
          > <http://www.databasehockey.com> (NHL only, with only the
          > basic stats).
          >
          On that note, do people actually LIKE the layout of the
          baseball-reference website? I've used it on occasion, but I found it
          maddening to use.

          On another note, there is another hockey stats database project,
          developed independent from the other online sources.

          http://www.bballsports.com/

          That one is different because it is actually an online application that
          does not allow you unfettered access to raw data, but gives you an
          interface to query it. From what the site says, it only goes to 2004. I
          suppose the problem with any such site is that there is a risk that they
          will get discouraged and give up.

          Ralph
        • Tangotiger
          ... What is so maddening about it? Speaking as both a programmer and end-user, it s fantastic. And I m not alone: http://tinyurl.com/32gvvt HockeyDB is
          Message 4 of 22 , Feb 1, 2007
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            --- Ralph Slate <slater@...> wrote:
            > On that note, do people actually LIKE the layout of
            > the
            > baseball-reference website? I've used it on
            > occasion, but I found it
            > maddening to use.
            >

            What is so maddening about it? Speaking as both a
            programmer and end-user, it's fantastic.

            And I'm not alone:
            http://tinyurl.com/32gvvt

            HockeyDB is excellent too.

            Tom

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          • Ralph Slate
            Tangotiger w ... I think it s the overabundance of abbreviations. I like the verbosity of showing that a player played for the Boston Bruins instead of BOS. I
            Message 5 of 22 , Feb 1, 2007
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              Tangotiger w
              > What is so maddening about it? Speaking as both a
              > programmer and end-user, it's fantastic.
              I think it's the overabundance of abbreviations. I like the verbosity of
              showing that a player played for the Boston Bruins instead of BOS. I
              suppose that something has to give when there are 20+ items to report on
              a line. I also don't like the "throw everything onto one page" concept,
              I'd prefer to see data more categorized.

              I do like the "similar player" function though. That's really cool. Too
              bad the lack of hockey stats makes such automated comparisons virtually
              impossible to make.

              Ralph
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