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Date of death sources?

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  • chris.fletcher66
    Hi - This is a great resource, thanks for putting it together! I am starting a bit of research on how long hockey players live, change in lifespan over time,
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 2, 2009
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      Hi - This is a great resource, thanks for putting it together! I am starting a bit of research on
      how long hockey players live, change in lifespan over time, and comparisons to the national
      (canada) average.

      A couple of questions about the database:

      Where do date of death records come from? I am curious about how much confidence we can
      put in these dates.

      Some DoD fields are marked "9999" and others are blank including people born in the 1890s
      and presumably gone now. Is there a distinction here?

      Cheers,

      Chris Fletcher
    • dsreyn
      The death info has been cobbled together from multiple sources. Generally speaking, any source I have used (for the entire project) is listed in the
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 2, 2009
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        The death info has been cobbled together from multiple sources.
        Generally speaking, any source I have used (for the entire project) is
        listed in the "references and acknowledgements" part of the readme
        file included with each release. The death information specifically
        has generally come from one of the following:

        - Total Hockey
        - hockey-reference.com
        - Find A Grave (www.findagrave.com)
        - SIHR (www.sihrhockey.org) - they've posted annual lists of
        hockey-related deaths for the last several years
        - LostHockey.com (www.losthockey.com)

        I have occasionally added recent deaths (the last year or so) after
        seeing news stories on ESPN.com, the hockhist Yahoo group, HFBoards,
        etc. Though of course, these generally show up in the annual SIHR
        lists. In case you're wondering, as a general rule I avoid using
        Wikipedia for anything that I can't corroborate elsewhere.

        As far as reliability of the information is concerned, I'm fairly
        confident the death info is fairly reliable. However, keep in mind
        that consulting multiple sources will sometimes yield different dates
        for the same player. There's also one case in particular that's
        probably wrong. There are two players in the database named Jack
        McDonald - one born in 1887, the other in 1921. Total Hockey and
        Hockey-reference.com give a date of death for *both* as 1/24/58. Two
        players with the same name, born 34 years apart, both dying on the
        same date? Seems like an incredible coincidence (though Adams and
        Jefferson both died on the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of
        Independence, so I suppose anything is possible) - I suspect the
        likely explanation is a mixup given the identical names.

        The "9999" entries indicate that a player is known to be deceased, but
        no specific details are known. I have only marked players as deceased
        in this way if they are indicated as such either in Total Hockey, or
        in the player career totals lists in the Official NHL Guide & Record
        Book. There are a number of other players who can be presumed to be
        deceased given their birth year, but I have not marked them as
        deceased without confirmation.

        Doug

        --- In hockey-databank@yahoogroups.com, "chris.fletcher66"
        <cfmletcher@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi - This is a great resource, thanks for putting it together! I am
        starting a bit of research on
        > how long hockey players live, change in lifespan over time, and
        comparisons to the national
        > (canada) average.
        >
        > A couple of questions about the database:
        >
        > Where do date of death records come from? I am curious about how
        much confidence we can
        > put in these dates.
        >
        > Some DoD fields are marked "9999" and others are blank including
        people born in the 1890s
        > and presumably gone now. Is there a distinction here?
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        > Chris Fletcher
        >
      • chris.fletcher66
        Thanks Doug - I missed the readme and notes files, should have checked them first. There are bizarre coincidences out there. As I started looking for data on
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 2, 2009
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          Thanks Doug - I missed the readme and notes files, should have checked them first.

          There are bizarre coincidences out there. As I started looking for data on this topic I
          clicked first on the 1922-23 Canadiens to find two players, Odie and Sprague Cleghorn-
          brothers, with my maternal grandparent's last name. They brothers Cleghorn died within
          days of each other and are buried in the same cemetery as my maternal grandmother -
          Sheena Cleghorn. Spooky. I will post updates on our project as we work through it.

          Best,
          Chris

          --- In hockey-databank@yahoogroups.com, "dsreyn" <dreynolds@...> wrote:
          >
          > The death info has been cobbled together from multiple sources.
          > Generally speaking, any source I have used (for the entire project) is
          > listed in the "references and acknowledgements" part of the readme
          > file included with each release. The death information specifically
          > has generally come from one of the following:
          >
          > - Total Hockey
          > - hockey-reference.com
          > - Find A Grave (www.findagrave.com)
          > - SIHR (www.sihrhockey.org) - they've posted annual lists of
          > hockey-related deaths for the last several years
          > - LostHockey.com (www.losthockey.com)
          >
          > I have occasionally added recent deaths (the last year or so) after
          > seeing news stories on ESPN.com, the hockhist Yahoo group, HFBoards,
          > etc. Though of course, these generally show up in the annual SIHR
          > lists. In case you're wondering, as a general rule I avoid using
          > Wikipedia for anything that I can't corroborate elsewhere.
          >
          > As far as reliability of the information is concerned, I'm fairly
          > confident the death info is fairly reliable. However, keep in mind
          > that consulting multiple sources will sometimes yield different dates
          > for the same player. There's also one case in particular that's
          > probably wrong. There are two players in the database named Jack
          > McDonald - one born in 1887, the other in 1921. Total Hockey and
          > Hockey-reference.com give a date of death for *both* as 1/24/58. Two
          > players with the same name, born 34 years apart, both dying on the
          > same date? Seems like an incredible coincidence (though Adams and
          > Jefferson both died on the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of
          > Independence, so I suppose anything is possible) - I suspect the
          > likely explanation is a mixup given the identical names.
          >
          > The "9999" entries indicate that a player is known to be deceased, but
          > no specific details are known. I have only marked players as deceased
          > in this way if they are indicated as such either in Total Hockey, or
          > in the player career totals lists in the Official NHL Guide & Record
          > Book. There are a number of other players who can be presumed to be
          > deceased given their birth year, but I have not marked them as
          > deceased without confirmation.
          >
          > Doug
          >
          > --- In hockey-databank@yahoogroups.com, "chris.fletcher66"
          > <cfmletcher@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi - This is a great resource, thanks for putting it together! I am
          > starting a bit of research on
          > > how long hockey players live, change in lifespan over time, and
          > comparisons to the national
          > > (canada) average.
          > >
          > > A couple of questions about the database:
          > >
          > > Where do date of death records come from? I am curious about how
          > much confidence we can
          > > put in these dates.
          > >
          > > Some DoD fields are marked "9999" and others are blank including
          > people born in the 1890s
          > > and presumably gone now. Is there a distinction here?
          > >
          > > Cheers,
          > >
          > > Chris Fletcher
          > >
          >
        • James Milks
          Hi, The Jack McDonald born in 1887 is the one who died in 1958. I do not know if the Jack born in 1921 has died or not. I have lots of dates, so let me know if
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 4, 2009
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            Hi,
            The Jack McDonald born in 1887 is the one who died in 1958. I do not know if the Jack born in 1921 has died or not. 
             
            I have lots of dates, so let me know if there are any in particular you are seeking. losthockey.com is terribly out of date, and I will likely pull it offline soon.
             
            James
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