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50Re: [hockey-databank] Re: 2/1/07 database release

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  • Karkoski James
    Feb 4, 2007
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      On 2007.2.3, at 12:28 PM, Stu McMurray wrote:


      > The NHL commissioned and accepts Duff's work as official so who are we
      > to say otherwise?


      Hi Stu, the problem with this is that, as you have noted below, until
      recently the NHL has been more than happy to sanction stats that
      weren't correct for decades, so I don't think that we are in a position
      yet to just simply accept what they offer as "officially correct."


      >
      > There is no detailed methodology published because this was an inhouse
      > project of the NHL and not private "publish or perish" research.


      I'm kind of bothered about the NHL simply sitting on these old
      scoresheets and making you go into their office to check your
      information against them. Why don't they just release them? Or compile
      them themselves and release it? I really don't understand this "must be
      locked away in a file" attitude towards this old information. Unless,
      the NHL historical stats are a "pile of garbage", as Morey Holzman dubs
      it. And if it is garbage, then why wouldn't the NHL want to clean it
      up??


      >
      > My personal pet peeve has always been seeing Mike Neville show up in
      > the 1917-18 stats. An early researcher made a mistake from a newspaper
      > account of a game and the error wasn't corrected for years. Even the
      > NHL guide used to include him in their retired player roster, showing
      > his first NHL season as 1917-18. The error was corrected based mainly
      > on Bob Duff's research.(not to mention the fact that Neville would have
      > only been 13 years old at the start of the 1917-18 season!)
      >


      In fairness, the NHL only published the last name Neville and awarded
      him one goal. Someone somewhere added the first name "Mike".
      I agree with you about there being no Neville, and I think I told you
      about my theory on it, that given the way information was orally passed
      on by telephone to the wire press services, the name "Noble" was heard
      to be "Neville" by the person in the wire office and so it was printed
      in newspapers across the nation.
      >


      >
      > I would love for Bob to write a paper in the SIHR Journal outlining his
      > trials and tribulations in re-compiling the early stats of the NHL. It
      > would go a long way to answering many researchers questions.
      >

      I agree, he should. It should have been done a long time ago.


      On 2007.2.4, at 01:08 AM, Stu McMurray wrote:

      > Stu writes-->
      > There were no score sheets until 1926-27. The NHL relied on newspaper
      > accounts. There was no radio coverage back then either. The newspaper
      > accounts were the only written record of the games. I am sure they had
      > errors but they would be the most accurate account of the games simply
      > by default wouldn't they?



      Yes and No on the accuracy. Yes because they are all there is. No,
      because it is a problem we have been down the road with the GP because
      the NHL didn't start compiling games GP until 42-43. The different
      books who compiled them have a lot of different numbers on them. I
      think it is save to argue that as soon as we start researching G, A &
      PIM, there is going to a deluge of different numbers from different
      people on these numbers because the newspapers will provide different
      numbers. The question is, do we want to go down this road?? Again, the
      NHL can avoid this in the years after 26-27 by releasing the summaries.


      James
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