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Mikey re Vortex Burner

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  • crashbone256
    Mikey, did you get the email with the link to video on Google Drive? I have been experimenting with the three 1 V V burners with little success. The shallow
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 22, 2014

      Mikey,

       did you get the email with the link to video on Google Drive?


      I have been experimenting with the three 1" V V burners with little success.

      The shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not light, even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into the mixing tube.


      Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5 psi, but the flame is weak

      and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is running full tilt, but the flame

      appears to be oxygen starved. 


      With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8 psi with no trouble.

      What are the parameters with the vortex?


      Where is a good place to upload the videos so you can see what's happening?


      lance

      ++++

    • mikey98118
      Lance, I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I m an ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a computer at all, and; two, I
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 23, 2014
        Lance,
        I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm an ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a brand new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do you know what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good in comparison! I don't really need to see the videos, because your description tells me all that seeing the videos would. Only videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I can see if something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is already set perfectly.
        I have changed a few things on this burner:
        (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas feed.
        (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it can be ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
        Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of gas volume to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty two"; lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying to overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure will over accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
        The problem is that so many things, or combination of things, which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in the gas feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not set right; poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or mounting plate to funnel opening).
        We will either have to go over every single detail (with photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out "hands on." I know that mailing it is expensive and inconvenient; reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I don't make the offer lightly.
        Either solution might be a lot of work for both of us; on the other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
        My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with her help I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My buddy Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to help me make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't mean such a video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will prove that the burner design does work, but that is no help in pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be obvious.
        Things are actually much better for you than they seem, because when a burner is running so badly, the solution is usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the burners that are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild (or a trash can).
        Mikey


        The shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not light, even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into the mixing tube.

         

        Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5 psi, but the flame is weak

        and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is running full tilt, but the flame

        appears to be oxygen starved. 

         

        With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8 psi with no trouble.

        What are the parameters with the vortex?

         

        Where is a good place to upload the videos so you can see what's happening?

         



      • James Lyle
        I recently passed up a computer buy of A lifetime because it had Windows 8. I am now told there is a relatively easy way to disable 8 and get a working
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 23, 2014
          I recently passed up a computer " buy of A lifetime because it had Windows 8.   I am now told there is a relatively easy way to disable 8 and get a working computer in the process.
          Probably need a first grader to do it.
          Just think where we would be today of Gates had told IBM the truth

          Jim Lyle

          Sent from my iPhone

          On Jun 23, 2014, at 1:07 PM, "michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast]" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          Lance,
          I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm an ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a brand new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do you know what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good in comparison! I don't really need to see the videos, because your description tells me all that seeing the videos would. Only videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I can see if something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is already set perfectly.
          I have changed a few things on this burner:
          (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas feed.
          (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it can be ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
          Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of gas volume to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty two"; lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying to overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure will over accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
          The problem is that so many things, or combination of things, which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in the gas feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not set right; poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or mounting plate to funnel opening).
          We will either have to go over every single detail (with photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out "hands on." I know that mailing it is expensive and inconvenient; reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I don't make the offer lightly.
          Either solution might be a lot of work for both of us; on the other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
          My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with her help I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My buddy Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to help me make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't mean such a video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will prove that the burner design does work, but that is no help in pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be obvious.
          Things are actually much better for you than they seem, because when a burner is running so badly, the solution is usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the burners that are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild (or a trash can).
          Mikey


          The shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not light, even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into the mixing tube.

           

          Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5 psi, but the flame is weak

          and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is running full tilt, but the flame

          appears to be oxygen starved. 

           

          With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8 psi with no trouble.

          What are the parameters with the vortex?

           

          Where is a good place to upload the videos so you can see what's happening?

           



        • mikey98118
          Jim, My wife, who has an Associate degree in computer programing, tried that fix back when I was suffering with Vista; the machine accepted a Windows 7
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 23, 2014
            Jim,
            My wife, who has an Associate degree in computer programing, tried that fix back when I was suffering with Vista; the machine accepted a Windows 7 download, and afterwards would NOT allow her to delete either operating system. Naturally, two big hog OS Microsoft programs took up so much space that the computer would barely run.
            Mikey
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: James Lyle WJJIM@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 17:27:19 -0000 (UTC)
            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
             
            I recently passed up a computer " buy of A lifetime because it had Windows 8.   I am now told there is a relatively easy way to disable 8 and get a working computer in the process.
            Probably need a first grader to do it.
            Just think where we would be today of Gates had told IBM the truth
            Jim Lyle

            Sent from my iPhone

            On Jun 23, 2014, at 1:07 PM, "michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast]" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
            Lance,
            I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm an ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a brand new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do you know what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good in comparison! I don't really need to see the videos, because your description tells me all that seeing the videos would. Only videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I can see if something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is already set perfectly.
            I have changed a few things on this burner:
            (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas feed.
            (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it can be ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
            Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of gas volume to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty two"; lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying to overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure will over accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
            The problem is that so many things, or combination of things, which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in the gas feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not set right; poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or mounting plate to funnel opening).
            We will either have to go over every single detail (with photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out "hands on." I know that mailing it is expensive and inconvenient; reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I don't make the offer lightly.
            Either solution might be a lot of work for both of us; on the other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
            My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with her help I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My buddy Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to help me make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't mean such a video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will prove that the burner design does work, but that is no help in pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be obvious.
            Things are actually much better for you than they seem, because when a burner is running so badly, the solution is usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the burners that are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild (or a trash can).
            Mikey


            The shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not light, even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into the mixing tube.

             

            Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5 psi, but the flame is weak

            and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is running full tilt, but the flame

            appears to be oxygen starved. 

             

            With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8 psi with no trouble.

            What are the parameters with the vortex?

             

            Where is a good place to upload the videos so you can see what's happening?

             



          • Jeremy Winder
            Mikey, I personally would love to see a video of one of these burners running correctly. Even if it doesn t directly help Lance, I would appreciate seeing your
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 23, 2014
              Mikey,

              I personally would love to see a video of one of these burners running correctly. Even if it doesn't directly help Lance, I would appreciate seeing your video.

              Jeremy


              On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 1:07 PM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
               

              Lance,
              I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm an ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a brand new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do you know what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good in comparison! I don't really need to see the videos, because your description tells me all that seeing the videos would. Only videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I can see if something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is already set perfectly.
              I have changed a few things on this burner:
              (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas feed.
              (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it can be ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
              Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of gas volume to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty two"; lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying to overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure will over accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
              The problem is that so many things, or combination of things, which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in the gas feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not set right; poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or mounting plate to funnel opening).
              We will either have to go over every single detail (with photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out "hands on." I know that mailing it is expensive and inconvenient; reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I don't make the offer lightly.
              Either solution might be a lot of work for both of us; on the other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
              My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with her help I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My buddy Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to help me make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't mean such a video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will prove that the burner design does work, but that is no help in pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be obvious.
              Things are actually much better for you than they seem, because when a burner is running so badly, the solution is usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the burners that are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild (or a trash can).
              Mikey


              The shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not light, even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into the mixing tube.

               

              Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5 psi, but the flame is weak

              and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is running full tilt, but the flame

              appears to be oxygen starved. 

               

              With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8 psi with no trouble.

              What are the parameters with the vortex?

               

              Where is a good place to upload the videos so you can see what's happening?

               






              --
              Jeremy - Columbus, GA USA
            • StoneTool
              Mikey: The first problem is having a factory built system with all their garbage. The second is that Windows no longer allows you to delete entire
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 23, 2014
                Mikey:
                    The first problem is having a factory built system with all their garbage.  The second is that Windows no longer allows you to delete entire partitions....no  Fdisk provided.    The solution is to pick up a Linux disk and run the install through the partition stage.  At that point allow it to use the entire disk, and it will wipe Windows completely.   Stop after this, and close.   Then run your Win7 installation.   I  My primary OS is Linux SUSE (latest version), but I have a Windows 7 installation I can go to if I want.... I've actually never used Win7 except to help other folks work through problems.    When you are doing your Win7 installation, there is a screen that will allow you to delete the Linux partitions, etc.... created in the earlier step.    Windows just sucks all the way around........... I gave it up for Linux many years ago, but I still have a system with Windows on it that I have to use for one specific program...... nothing else.

                                                                                                                        Howard

                On 06/23/2014 12:45 PM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast] wrote:
                Jim,
                My wife, who has an Associate degree in computer programing, tried that fix back when I was suffering with Vista; the machine accepted a Windows 7 download, and afterwards would NOT allow her to delete either operating system. Naturally, two big hog OS Microsoft programs took up so much space that the computer would barely run.
                Mikey
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: James Lyle WJJIM@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 17:27:19 -0000 (UTC)
                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                 
                I recently passed up a computer " buy of A lifetime because it had Windows 8.   I am now told there is a relatively easy way to disable 8 and get a working computer in the process.
                Probably need a first grader to do it.
                Just think where we would be today of Gates had told IBM the truth
                Jim Lyle

                Sent from my iPhone

                On Jun 23, 2014, at 1:07 PM, "michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast]" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                Lance,
                I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm an ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a brand new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do you know what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good in comparison! I don't really need to see the videos, because your description tells me all that seeing the videos would. Only videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I can see if something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is already set perfectly.
                I have changed a few things on this burner:
                (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas feed.
                (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it can be ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
                Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of gas volume to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty two"; lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying to overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure will over accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
                The problem is that so many things, or combination of things, which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in the gas feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not set right; poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or mounting plate to funnel opening).
                We will either have to go over every single detail (with photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out "hands on." I know that mailing it is expensive and inconvenient; reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I don't make the offer lightly.
                Either solution might be a lot of work for both of us; on the other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
                My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with her help I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My buddy Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to help me make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't mean such a video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will prove that the burner design does work, but that is no help in pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be obvious.
                Things are actually much better for you than they seem, because when a burner is running so badly, the solution is usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the burners that are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild (or a trash can).
                Mikey


                The shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not light, even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into the mixing tube.

                 

                Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5 psi, but the flame is weak

                and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is running full tilt, but the flame

                appears to be oxygen starved. 

                 

                With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8 psi with no trouble.

                What are the parameters with the vortex?

                 

                Where is a good place to upload the videos so you can see what's happening?

                 




              • StoneTool
                I ve built 5 of your burners.........the larger ones, and they work great............ Thanks for a good design and a good book! Howard
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 23, 2014
                  I've built 5 of your burners.........the larger ones, and they work great............ Thanks for a good design and a good book!

                                                                                                          Howard


                  On 06/23/2014 11:07 AM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast] wrote:
                  Lance,
                  I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm an ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a brand new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do you know what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good in comparison! I don't really need to see the videos, because your description tells me all that seeing the videos would. Only videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I can see if something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is already set perfectly.
                  I have changed a few things on this burner:
                  (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas feed.
                  (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it can be ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
                  Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of gas volume to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty two"; lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying to overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure will over accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
                  The problem is that so many things, or combination of things, which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in the gas feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not set right; poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or mounting plate to funnel opening).
                  We will either have to go over every single detail (with photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out "hands on." I know that mailing it is expensive and inconvenient; reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I don't make the offer lightly.
                  Either solution might be a lot of work for both of us; on the other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
                  My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with her help I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My buddy Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to help me make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't mean such a video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will prove that the burner design does work, but that is no help in pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be obvious.
                  Things are actually much better for you than they seem, because when a burner is running so badly, the solution is usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the burners that are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild (or a trash can).
                  Mikey


                  The shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not light, even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into the mixing tube.

                   

                  Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5 psi, but the flame is weak

                  and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is running full tilt, but the flame

                  appears to be oxygen starved. 

                   

                  With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8 psi with no trouble.

                  What are the parameters with the vortex?

                   

                  Where is a good place to upload the videos so you can see what's happening?

                   




                • Lance Eggleston
                  Could you post video, photo or describe what the correctly adjusted flame from the 1ö vortex burner should look like? I can get a yellow, soft wavy flame. I
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jun 23, 2014
                    Could you post video, photo or describe 
                    what the correctly adjusted flame from the
                     1” vortex burner should look like?

                    I can get a yellow, soft wavy flame.
                    I expected something more like a bunsen burner flame, 
                    blue inner cone, softer blue/yellow outer cone.

                    I intend to play with the orifice size to get more gas volume at lower
                    input pressure. I had made the same mod to the gas jet, 1/4” Cu tube
                    with a turned down MIG tip bored out to 0.046”. 

                    Also, the fan is running at 12VDC, but I think I can up that to 18 VDC. 
                    I’ll use my tach to see what diff it makes in the fan’s rpm.

                    I have also made some sonic measurements of fan/compressed air thru the intake funnel
                    for different air pressures ,<5, 10, 15, 20 psi> and different mixing tube lengths. 
                    One thing I noticed is that about 10 psi the venturi effect of the air thru the jet is strong enough to
                    get the fan spinning without power.

                    more later.. hoping for success… want to scare neighbors and intimidate friends !!!

                    lance
                    ++++


                    On Jun 23, 2014, at 8:10 PM, StoneTool owly@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    I've built 5 of your burners.........the larger ones, and they work great............ Thanks for a good design and a good book!

                  • Joe Mac Groups
                    Hi Mikey, ... I am happy to hear this because I have been stalled on the tubing issue and life in general getting in the way of some of my projects. I have 1/4
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jun 23, 2014

                      Hi Mikey,

                       

                      >>>>>> (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas feed.

                       

                      I am happy to hear this because I have been stalled on the tubing issue and life in general getting in the way of some of my projects. I have 1/4 inch on hand and will adapt the jet that you sent me. I have been feeling badly about my lack of progress and reporting on the project.

                       

                      Regarding windows 8….

                       

                      I understand the problems people have with the radical difference in the interface. I have computers here I use with windows XP, Win Seven and Win Eight. Windows Eight is by far the best of the bunch once you get past the new interface. A free program known as “Classic Shell” takes all of the pain out of the process.

                       

                      I understand that you will likely need help to set it up, but once you are up and running you will never look back. Life keeps a changing and now and then we must make the plunge. I have a 1928 Model A Ford and I love to drive it all the time but a modern car it ain’t.

                       

                      Regards,

                      -Joemac

                    • mikey98118
                      Thanks, Joe. When Kathy gets back I ll try Classic Shell. Kind of swamped right now; every year past sixty the climb gets steeper! You should be able to use
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jun 23, 2014
                        Thanks, Joe.
                        When Kathy gets back I'll try Classic Shell. Kind of swamped right now; every year past sixty the climb gets steeper!
                        You should be able to use the brass capillary tube or prep and solder a 14T MIG tip with about equal ease. The key factor was discovering aluminum flat bar at onlinemetals.com. For  thick aluminum plate, "they want your first born."
                        Mikey
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: 'Joe Mac Groups' jrmacgroups@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 02:40:11 -0000 (UTC)
                        Subject: RE: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                         

                        Hi Mikey,

                         

                        >>>>>> (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas feed.

                         

                        I am happy to hear this because I have been stalled on the tubing issue and life in general getting in the way of some of my projects. I have 1/4 inch on hand and will adapt the jet that you sent me. I have been feeling badly about my lack of progress and reporting on the project.

                         

                        Regarding windows 8….

                         

                        I understand the problems people have with the radical difference in the interface. I have computers here I use with windows XP, Win Seven and Win Eight. Windows Eight is by far the best of the bunch once you get past the new interface. A free program known as “Classic Shell” takes all of the pain out of the process.

                         

                        I understand that you will likely need help to set it up, but once you are up and running you will never look back. Life keeps a changing and now and then we must make the plunge. I have a 1928 Model A Ford and I love to drive it all the time but a modern car it ain’t.

                         

                        Regards,

                        -Joemac

                      • mikey98118
                        Jeremy, The original plan was to get one of you guys to finish a burner and do the video for me! That worked out about as well as planting a garden to get out
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jun 23, 2014
                          Jeremy,
                          The original plan was to get one of you guys to finish a burner and do the video for me! That worked out about as well as planting a garden to get out of mowing the lawnTongue Out
                          Mikey
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Jeremy Winder cptwinder@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 00:01:52 -0000 (UTC)
                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                           
                          Mikey,
                          I personally would love to see a video of one of these burners running correctly. Even if it doesn't directly help Lance, I would appreciate seeing your video.
                          Jeremy

                          On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 1:07 PM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                           

                          Lance,
                          I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm an ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a brand new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do you know what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good in comparison! I don't really need to see the videos, because your description tells me all that seeing the videos would. Only videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I can see if something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is already set perfectly.
                          I have changed a few things on this burner:
                          (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas feed.
                          (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it can be ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
                          Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of gas volume to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty two"; lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying to overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure will over accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
                          The problem is that so many things, or combination of things, which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in the gas feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not set right; poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or mounting plate to funnel opening).
                          We will either have to go over every single detail (with photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out "hands on." I know that mailing it is expensive and inconvenient; reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I don't make the offer lightly.
                          Either solution might be a lot of work for both of us; on the other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
                          My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with her help I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My buddy Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to help me make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't mean such a video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will prove that the burner design does work, but that is no help in pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be obvious.
                          Things are actually much better for you than they seem, because when a burner is running so badly, the solution is usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the burners that are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild (or a trash can).
                          Mikey


                          The shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not light, even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into the mixing tube.

                           

                          Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5 psi, but the flame is weak

                          and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is running full tilt, but the flame

                          appears to be oxygen starved. 

                           

                          With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8 psi with no trouble.

                          What are the parameters with the vortex?

                           

                          Where is a good place to upload the videos so you can see what's happening?

                           





                          --
                          Jeremy - Columbus, GA USA
                        • mikey98118
                          The flame looks exactly like a Mikey burner flame; only on steroids ... Could you post video, photo or describe what the correctly adjusted flame from the
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jun 23, 2014
                            The flame looks exactly like a Mikey burner flame; only on steroids
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Lance Eggleston wheezer606@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 02:33:30 -0000 (UTC)
                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                             

                            Could you post video, photo or describe 

                            what the correctly adjusted flame from the
                             1” vortex burner should look like?
                            I can get a yellow, soft wavy flame.
                            I expected something more like a bunsen burner flame, 
                            blue inner cone, softer blue/yellow outer cone.
                            I intend to play with the orifice size to get more gas volume at lower
                            input pressure. I had made the same mod to the gas jet, 1/4” Cu tube
                            with a turned down MIG tip bored out to 0.046”. 
                            Also, the fan is running at 12VDC, but I think I can up that to 18 VDC. 
                            I’ll use my tach to see what diff it makes in the fan’s rpm.
                            I have also made some sonic measurements of fan/compressed air thru the intake funnel
                            for different air pressures ,<5, 10, 15, 20 psi> and different mixing tube lengths. 
                            One thing I noticed is that about 10 psi the venturi effect of the air thru the jet is strong enough to
                            get the fan spinning without power.
                            more later.. hoping for success… want to scare neighbors and intimidate friends !!!
                            lance
                            ++++

                            On Jun 23, 2014, at 8:10 PM, StoneTool owly@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            I've built 5 of your burners.........the larger ones, and they work great............ Thanks for a good design and a good book!
                          • mikey98118
                            No, no, Howard: You don t understand; this is another trip down to the deep end of the pool Mikey ... I ve built 5 of your burners.........the larger ones, and
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jun 23, 2014
                              No, no, Howard:
                              You don't understand; this is another trip down to the deep end of the pool Innocent
                              Mikey
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: StoneTool owly@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 00:10:21 -0000 (UTC)
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                               
                              I've built 5 of your
                              burners.........the larger ones, and they work great............
                              Thanks for a good design and a good book!

                                                                                             
                                                      Howard

                              On 06/23/2014 11:07 AM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast]
                              wrote:
                              Lance,
                              I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm an
                              ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a
                              computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a brand
                              new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do you know
                              what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good in
                              comparison! I don't really need to see the videos, because your
                              description tells me all that seeing the videos would. Only
                              videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I can see if
                              something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is already
                              set perfectly.
                              I have changed a few things on this burner:
                              (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to
                              solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas
                              feed.
                              (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it can be
                              ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
                              Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of gas volume
                              to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty two";
                              lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying to
                              overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure will over
                              accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
                              The problem is that so many things, or combination of things,
                              which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your
                              problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in the gas
                              feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not set right;
                              poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or mounting
                              plate to funnel opening).
                              We will either have to go over every single detail (with
                              photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out "hands
                              on." I know that mailing it is expensive and inconvenient;
                              reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I don't
                              make the offer lightly.
                              Either solution might be a lot of work for both of us; on the
                              other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
                              My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with her help
                              I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My buddy
                              Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to help me
                              make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't mean such a
                              video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will prove
                              that the burner design does work, but that is no help in
                              pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be obvious.
                              Things are actually much better for you than they seem,
                              because when a burner is running so badly, the solution is
                              usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the burners that
                              are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild (or a
                              trash can).
                              Mikey


                              The
                              shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not
                              light, 
                              even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their
                              video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into
                              the mixing tube.

                               

                              Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5
                              psi, but the flame is weak

                              and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is
                              running full tilt, but the flame

                              appears to be oxygen starved. 

                               

                              With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8
                              psi with no trouble.

                              What are the parameters with the vortex?

                               

                              Where is a good place to upload the videos so you
                              can see what's happening?

                               


                            • Joe Mac Groups
                              Easy now I’m 71 and counting. And yes, key to cost on aluminum is using bar stock or “Extrusion” rather than anything called “Plate”. -Joemac
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jun 23, 2014

                                Easy now <Grin> I’m 71 and counting. And yes, key to cost on aluminum is using bar stock or “Extrusion” rather than anything called “Plate”.

                                -Joemac

                                 

                                 

                                Thanks, Joe.

                                When Kathy gets back I'll try Classic Shell. Kind of swamped right now; every year past sixty the climb gets steeper!

                                You should be able to use the brass capillary tube or prep and solder a 14T MIG tip with about equal ease. The key factor was discovering aluminum flat bar at onlinemetals.com. For  thick aluminum plate, "they want your first born."

                                Mikey

                                 

                              • mikey98118
                                Joe, You ve got three years on me. Mikey ... Easy now I’m 71 and counting. And yes, key to cost on aluminum is using bar stock or
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jun 24, 2014
                                  Joe,
                                  You've got three years on me.
                                  Mikey
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: 'Joe Mac Groups' jrmacgroups@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                  To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 05:10:45 -0000 (UTC)
                                  Subject: RE: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                                   

                                  Easy now <Grin> I’m 71 and counting. And yes, key to cost on aluminum is using bar stock or “Extrusion” rather than anything called “Plate”.

                                  -Joemac

                                   

                                   

                                  Thanks, Joe.

                                  When Kathy gets back I'll try Classic Shell. Kind of swamped right now; every year past sixty the climb gets steeper!

                                  You should be able to use the brass capillary tube or prep and solder a 14T MIG tip with about equal ease. The key factor was discovering aluminum flat bar at onlinemetals.com. For  thick aluminum plate, "they want your first born."

                                  Mikey

                                   

                                • StoneTool
                                  Mikey: I don t understand........... Is the vortex burner a different critter? Howard
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jun 24, 2014
                                    Mikey:
                                        I don't understand...........     Is the "vortex burner" a different critter?

                                                                                                                                        Howard


                                    On 06/23/2014 10:47 PM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast] wrote:
                                    No, no, Howard:
                                    You don't understand; this is another trip down to the deep end of the pool Innocent
                                    Mikey
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: StoneTool owly@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                    To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 00:10:21 -0000 (UTC)
                                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                                     
                                    I've built 5 of your
                                    burners.........the larger ones, and they work great............
                                    Thanks for a good design and a good book!

                                                                                                   
                                                            Howard

                                    On 06/23/2014 11:07 AM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast]
                                    wrote:
                                    Lance,
                                    I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm an
                                    ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a
                                    computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a brand
                                    new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do you know
                                    what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good in
                                    comparison! I don't really need to see the videos, because your
                                    description tells me all that seeing the videos would. Only
                                    videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I can see if
                                    something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is already
                                    set perfectly.
                                    I have changed a few things on this burner:
                                    (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to
                                    solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas
                                    feed.
                                    (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it can be
                                    ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
                                    Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of gas volume
                                    to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty two";
                                    lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying to
                                    overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure will over
                                    accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
                                    The problem is that so many things, or combination of things,
                                    which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your
                                    problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in the gas
                                    feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not set right;
                                    poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or mounting
                                    plate to funnel opening).
                                    We will either have to go over every single detail (with
                                    photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out "hands
                                    on." I know that mailing it is expensive and inconvenient;
                                    reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I don't
                                    make the offer lightly.
                                    Either solution might be a lot of work for both of us; on the
                                    other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
                                    My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with her help
                                    I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My buddy
                                    Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to help me
                                    make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't mean such a
                                    video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will prove
                                    that the burner design does work, but that is no help in
                                    pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be obvious.
                                    Things are actually much better for you than they seem,
                                    because when a burner is running so badly, the solution is
                                    usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the burners that
                                    are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild (or a
                                    trash can).
                                    Mikey


                                    The
                                    shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not
                                    light, 
                                    even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their
                                    video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into
                                    the mixing tube.

                                     

                                    Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5
                                    psi, but the flame is weak

                                    and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is
                                    running full tilt, but the flame

                                    appears to be oxygen starved. 

                                     

                                    With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8
                                    psi with no trouble.

                                    What are the parameters with the vortex?

                                     

                                    Where is a good place to upload the videos so you
                                    can see what's happening?

                                     



                                  • Dan Brewer
                                    Howard, The vortex burner is a fan assted Porter burner. It will burn the end off the burner with no problem. On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 6:55 AM, StoneTool
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jun 24, 2014
                                      Howard,  The vortex burner is a fan assted Porter burner.  It will burn the end off the burner with no problem.
                                       


                                      On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 6:55 AM, StoneTool owly@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                       

                                      Mikey:
                                          I don't understand...........     Is the "vortex burner" a different critter?

                                                                                                                                          Howard



                                      On 06/23/2014 10:47 PM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast] wrote:
                                      No, no, Howard:
                                      You don't understand; this is another trip down to the deep end of the pool Innocent
                                      Mikey
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: StoneTool owly@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                      To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 00:10:21 -0000 (UTC)
                                      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                                       
                                      I've built 5 of your
                                      burners.........the larger ones, and they work great............
                                      Thanks for a good design and a good book!

                                                                                                     
                                                              Howard

                                      On 06/23/2014 11:07 AM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast]
                                      wrote:
                                      Lance,
                                      I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm an
                                      ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a
                                      computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a brand
                                      new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do you know
                                      what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good in
                                      comparison! I don't really need to see the videos, because your
                                      description tells me all that seeing the videos would. Only
                                      videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I can see if
                                      something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is already
                                      set perfectly.
                                      I have changed a few things on this burner:
                                      (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to
                                      solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas
                                      feed.
                                      (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it can be
                                      ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
                                      Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of gas volume
                                      to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty two";
                                      lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying to
                                      overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure will over
                                      accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
                                      The problem is that so many things, or combination of things,
                                      which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your
                                      problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in the gas
                                      feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not set right;
                                      poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or mounting
                                      plate to funnel opening).
                                      We will either have to go over every single detail (with
                                      photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out "hands
                                      on." I know that mailing it is expensive and inconvenient;
                                      reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I don't
                                      make the offer lightly.
                                      Either solution might be a lot of work for both of us; on the
                                      other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
                                      My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with her help
                                      I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My buddy
                                      Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to help me
                                      make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't mean such a
                                      video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will prove
                                      that the burner design does work, but that is no help in
                                      pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be obvious.
                                      Things are actually much better for you than they seem,
                                      because when a burner is running so badly, the solution is
                                      usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the burners that
                                      are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild (or a
                                      trash can).
                                      Mikey


                                      The
                                      shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not
                                      light, 
                                      even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their
                                      video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into
                                      the mixing tube.

                                       

                                      Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5
                                      psi, but the flame is weak

                                      and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is
                                      running full tilt, but the flame

                                      appears to be oxygen starved. 

                                       

                                      With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8
                                      psi with no trouble.

                                      What are the parameters with the vortex?

                                       

                                      Where is a good place to upload the videos so you
                                      can see what's happening?

                                       




                                    • mikey98118
                                      Hi, Howard. Dan is right. You probably heard the arguments for venturi versus fan-blown burners back when you were researching just what kind of burner you
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jun 24, 2014
                                        Hi, Howard.
                                        Dan is right.
                                        You probably heard the arguments for venturi versus fan-blown burners back when you were researching just what kind of burner you wanted to build, yes? Well this burner is neither one and both at the same time. It does have a fan mounted on it, BUT, the fan isn't there to develop air pressure; it's there to develop air swirl. This burner series also employs the venturi effect to entrain air, just like Mikey burners do. The result is a burner that will put out a highly variable total combustion single wave front flame, just like the best venturi burners, but which can be turned up beyond fan-blown rates, while still maintaining a compact hot flame output.

                                        The central operating principle for these burners is found in the laws of vortical flow; a part of fluid dynamics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorticity
                                        For those who aren't in love with college physics:
                                        (A) Any fluid (including air) moving through a funnel shape, will spin as it travels between large entrance and small exit points within the funnel, creating vorticity.
                                        (B) Any fluid  traveling within that funnel will spin faster the closer it is forced to its axis (just the opposite of what happens on any point of a conical shaped solid).
                                        (C) Forward motion of a vortical flow tends to reach about one-half its rotational speed.
                                        (D) The fluid in a vortex will develop a low pressure area in its center, because of point "B".
                                        All of these factors tend to create a very positive gas/air feed at a burner mixing tube's entrance; thus the miraculous improvement any funnel shape makes in the performance of a linear burner; in fact such burners are totally unstable without a cone or bell shaped restriction at the air entrance.
                                        Now, supposing you put a squirrel cage fan at the funnel's air entrance; the standard practice on fan-blown burners. You will PUSH more air through the burner, but you have to baffle the fan because you quickly get too much air pressure for the burner nozzle to handle. Thus, you have to severely limit the amount of  air in your air/gas flow, or blow the flame off the end of your burner.
                                        Up until recently axial fans would have done little better. But, today's axial computer cooling fans all use impeller style blades; they develop less forward pressure than old style axial blades found on box fans, and far less pressure than a squirrel cage fan.
                                        What they do develop very well is a swirling output. When you mount an impeller blade at the entrance to a funnel, air swirl begins before the air even starts its journey down the funnel to the mixing tube entrance.
                                        As we all know, there "ain't no free lunch." All this wonderful vorticity comes at a price; in fact the fan barely puts out any positive air pressure at all, once it comes out the small end of the funnel, and enters the mixing tube.
                                        Note: Back pressure from the funnel restriction is so much greater than the remaining forward pressure that you must light the burner before you even start the fan running, or you just might shoot a flame out through that poor plastic fan, instead of out the flame nozzle, where it belongs! This is even true of a properly constructed burner, let alone a burner where stubborn people break all the safety rules, just because they can, and "nobody is the boss of them." All who read this; consider yourself warned.
                                        It takes both the venturi and flame nozzle dynamics operating IN A PROPERLY CONSTRUCTED BURNER to overcome back pressure, and keep the fuel gas flowing forward; not sucked out through the fan.
                                        Now, for the good news. A Vortex burner provides high speed very low pressure gas/air flow to the flame nozzle, allowing the operator to turn it up higher than any other homemade burner design, while maintaining a single wave front neutral flame. You can also build the smallest stable burners, and run them up far higher than even my own high-speed tube burners.
                                        Why??? Because, Vortex burners provide a much faster gas/air flow into the flame nozzle at much lower pressures than any other homemade design, allowing you to turn up a burner far higher for any given nozzle diameter than other burners. Every feature on these burners is designed either to produce the strongest vortical flow, or to make the best use of that flow.
                                        Sounds too good to be true? Looky here: The main purpose of a flame nozzle on the end of your burner's mixing tube is to create a low pressure area behind the flame. The difference between ambient air pressure (the air surrounding the flame on all sides other than the nozzle it is coming out of) and the pressure of a nozzle's air/gas output, is what keeps the flame "glued" to the end of the burner, rather than being blown out. The more you can lower the pressure of the air/gas mixture entering that nozzle the more push from combustion can be contained. Alas, just about everything you can do to increase mixture flow speed also increases flow pressure. Thus, the wonderfulness of vorticity. Ain't life grand?
                                        Hmmm; if it's sooo darned good how come nobody did it before, huh? Well, impeller style blades on axial computer fans haven't been around all that long, or someone else would have. I tried them in the first place because squirrel cage fans were more bother to install on venturi burners than their problematic performance justified.
                                        Thus we come to that famous old saying: "I may be slow but I'm ahead of you," which, when placed on the back of slow trailers, has ended quite badly for someCool
                                        Mikey
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: StoneTool owly@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:55:34 -0000 (UTC)
                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                                         
                                        Mikey:
                                            I don't understand...........     Is the "vortex burner" a
                                        different critter?

                                                                                                       
                                                                            Howard

                                        On 06/23/2014 10:47 PM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast]
                                        wrote:
                                        No, no, Howard:
                                        You don't understand; this is another trip down to the deep
                                        end of the pool Innocent
                                        Mikey
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: StoneTool owly@... [hobbicast]
                                        <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 00:10:21 -0000 (UTC)
                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                                         
                                        I've built 5 of your
                                        burners.........the larger ones, and they work
                                        great............
                                        Thanks for a good design and a good book!

                                                                                               
                                               
                                                                Howard

                                        On 06/23/2014 11:07 AM, michael.a.porter@...
                                        [hobbicast]
                                        wrote:
                                        Lance,
                                        I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm
                                        an
                                        ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just
                                        to use a
                                        computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a
                                        brand
                                        new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do
                                        you know
                                        what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good
                                        in
                                        comparison! I don't really need to see the videos,
                                        because your
                                        description tells me all that seeing the videos would.
                                        Only
                                        videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I
                                        can see if
                                        something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is
                                        already
                                        set perfectly.
                                        I have changed a few things on this burner:
                                        (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows
                                        anyone to
                                        solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better
                                        gas
                                        feed.
                                        (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it
                                        can be
                                        ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
                                        Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of
                                        gas volume
                                        to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty
                                        two";
                                        lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying
                                        to
                                        overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure
                                        will over
                                        accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
                                        The problem is that so many things, or combination of
                                        things,
                                        which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your
                                        problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in
                                        the gas
                                        feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not
                                        set right;
                                        poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or
                                        mounting
                                        plate to funnel opening).
                                        We will either have to go over every single detail
                                        (with
                                        photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out
                                        "hands
                                        on." I know that mailing it is expensive and
                                        inconvenient;
                                        reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I
                                        don't
                                        make the offer lightly.
                                        Either solution might be a lot of work for both of
                                        us; on the
                                        other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
                                        My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with
                                        her help
                                        I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My
                                        buddy
                                        Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to
                                        help me
                                        make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't
                                        mean such a
                                        video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will
                                        prove
                                        that the burner design does work, but that is no help in
                                        pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be
                                        obvious.
                                        Things are actually much better for you than they
                                        seem,
                                        because when a burner is running so badly, the solution
                                        is
                                        usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the
                                        burners that
                                        are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild
                                        (or a
                                        trash can).
                                        Mikey


                                        The

                                        shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will
                                        not

                                        light, even at 15 psi gas pressure.
                                        Their

                                        video is on Google drive. The flame is burning
                                        back into

                                        the mixing tube.

                                         

                                        Tonight I got the custom made bell to light
                                        at 5

                                        psi, but the flame is weak

                                        and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan
                                        is

                                        running full tilt, but the flame

                                        appears to be oxygen starved. 

                                         

                                        With my venturi aspirated burners, I run
                                        about 8

                                        psi with no trouble.

                                        What are the parameters with the vortex?

                                         

                                        Where is a good place to upload the videos
                                        so you

                                        can see what's happening?

                                         


                                      • Jeremy Winder
                                        Mikey, As you wished, here is a video of my furnace burner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FDORGLIfWs&feature=youtu.be It is NOT a vortex burner, it isn t
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jun 27, 2014
                                          Mikey,

                                          As you wished, here is a video of my furnace burner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FDORGLIfWs&feature=youtu.be

                                          It is NOT a vortex burner, it isn't even a good representation of a Mikey Burner. I also haven't used it to melt anything yet, as I am still in the process of building the furnace. But it is a video of a burner all the same. ;)

                                          Jeremy


                                          On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 12:42 AM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                           

                                          Jeremy,
                                          The original plan was to get one of you guys to finish a burner and do the video for me! That worked out about as well as planting a garden to get out of mowing the lawnTongue Out
                                          Mikey
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Jeremy Winder cptwinder@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 00:01:52 -0000 (UTC)
                                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                                           
                                          Mikey,
                                          I personally would love to see a video of one of these burners running correctly. Even if it doesn't directly help Lance, I would appreciate seeing your video.
                                          Jeremy

                                          On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 1:07 PM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                           

                                          Lance,
                                          I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm an ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a brand new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do you know what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good in comparison! I don't really need to see the videos, because your description tells me all that seeing the videos would. Only videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I can see if something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is already set perfectly.
                                          I have changed a few things on this burner:
                                          (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas feed.
                                          (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it can be ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
                                          Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of gas volume to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty two"; lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying to overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure will over accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
                                          The problem is that so many things, or combination of things, which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in the gas feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not set right; poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or mounting plate to funnel opening).
                                          We will either have to go over every single detail (with photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out "hands on." I know that mailing it is expensive and inconvenient; reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I don't make the offer lightly.
                                          Either solution might be a lot of work for both of us; on the other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
                                          My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with her help I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My buddy Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to help me make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't mean such a video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will prove that the burner design does work, but that is no help in pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be obvious.
                                          Things are actually much better for you than they seem, because when a burner is running so badly, the solution is usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the burners that are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild (or a trash can).
                                          Mikey


                                          The shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not light, even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into the mixing tube.

                                           

                                          Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5 psi, but the flame is weak

                                          and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is running full tilt, but the flame

                                          appears to be oxygen starved. 

                                           

                                          With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8 psi with no trouble.

                                          What are the parameters with the vortex?

                                           

                                          Where is a good place to upload the videos so you can see what's happening?

                                           





                                          --
                                          Jeremy - Columbus, GA USA




                                          --
                                          Jeremy - Columbus, GA USA
                                        • mikey98118
                                          Jeremy, If you want to get a really hot flame, you must finish the burner with a proper flame nozzle. I can t see the back part of the burner, but I m guessing
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jun 27, 2014
                                            Jeremy,
                                            If you want to get a really hot flame, you must finish the burner with a proper flame nozzle. I can't see the back part of the burner, but I'm guessing it is a high-speed tube burner (Mikey burner). It isn't hard to build the nozzle; you just order the stock already cut from onlinemetals.com, drill and thread a few holes for stainless steel socket head screws, and away you go.
                                            Mikey
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Jeremy Winder cptwinder@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:28:10 -0000 (UTC)
                                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                                             
                                            Mikey,
                                            As you wished, here is a video of my furnace burner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FDORGLIfWs&feature=youtu.be
                                            It is NOT a vortex burner, it isn't even a good representation of a Mikey Burner. I also haven't used it to melt anything yet, as I am still in the process of building the furnace. But it is a video of a burner all the same. ;)
                                            Jeremy

                                            On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 12:42 AM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                             

                                            Jeremy,
                                            The original plan was to get one of you guys to finish a burner and do the video for me! That worked out about as well as planting a garden to get out of mowing the lawnTongue Out
                                            Mikey
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Jeremy Winder cptwinder@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 00:01:52 -0000 (UTC)
                                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                                             
                                            Mikey,
                                            I personally would love to see a video of one of these burners running correctly. Even if it doesn't directly help Lance, I would appreciate seeing your video.
                                            Jeremy

                                            On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 1:07 PM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                             

                                            Lance,
                                            I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm an ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a brand new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do you know what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good in comparison! I don't really need to see the videos, because your description tells me all that seeing the videos would. Only videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I can see if something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is already set perfectly.
                                            I have changed a few things on this burner:
                                            (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas feed.
                                            (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it can be ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
                                            Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of gas volume to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty two"; lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying to overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure will over accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
                                            The problem is that so many things, or combination of things, which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in the gas feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not set right; poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or mounting plate to funnel opening).
                                            We will either have to go over every single detail (with photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out "hands on." I know that mailing it is expensive and inconvenient; reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I don't make the offer lightly.
                                            Either solution might be a lot of work for both of us; on the other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
                                            My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with her help I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My buddy Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to help me make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't mean such a video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will prove that the burner design does work, but that is no help in pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be obvious.
                                            Things are actually much better for you than they seem, because when a burner is running so badly, the solution is usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the burners that are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild (or a trash can).
                                            Mikey


                                            The shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not light, even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into the mixing tube.

                                             

                                            Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5 psi, but the flame is weak

                                            and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is running full tilt, but the flame

                                            appears to be oxygen starved. 

                                             

                                            With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8 psi with no trouble.

                                            What are the parameters with the vortex?

                                             

                                            Where is a good place to upload the videos so you can see what's happening?

                                             






                                            --
                                            Jeremy - Columbus, GA USA



                                            --
                                            Jeremy - Columbus, GA USA
                                          • Jeremy Winder
                                            Thank you for the recommendation! The nozzle that is on there is tapered on the inside. I believe at 12 degrees if I remember correctly. This burner doesn t
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jun 27, 2014
                                              Thank you for the recommendation!

                                              The nozzle that is on there is tapered on the inside. I believe at 12 degrees if I remember correctly. This burner doesn't have all of the filing on the intakes that you recommend in your book. I know I can spend more time and make it much better.

                                              The burner was slapped together in a day and the video was taken to send to a friend that thought I was nuts and couldn't do it.




                                              On Jun 27, 2014, at 9:13 PM, "michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast]" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                               

                                              Jeremy,
                                              If you want to get a really hot flame, you must finish the burner with a proper flame nozzle. I can't see the back part of the burner, but I'm guessing it is a high-speed tube burner (Mikey burner). It isn't hard to build the nozzle; you just order the stock already cut from onlinemetals.com, drill and thread a few holes for stainless steel socket head screws, and away you go.
                                              Mikey
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Jeremy Winder cptwinder@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:28:10 -0000 (UTC)
                                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                                               
                                              Mikey,
                                              As you wished, here is a video of my furnace burner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FDORGLIfWs&feature=youtu.be
                                              It is NOT a vortex burner, it isn't even a good representation of a Mikey Burner. I also haven't used it to melt anything yet, as I am still in the process of building the furnace. But it is a video of a burner all the same. ;)
                                              Jeremy

                                              On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 12:42 AM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                               

                                              Jeremy,
                                              The original plan was to get one of you guys to finish a burner and do the video for me! That worked out about as well as planting a garden to get out of mowing the lawnTongue Out
                                              Mikey
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Jeremy Winder cptwinder@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 00:01:52 -0000 (UTC)
                                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                                               
                                              Mikey,
                                              I personally would love to see a video of one of these burners running correctly. Even if it doesn't directly help Lance, I would appreciate seeing your video.
                                              Jeremy

                                              On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 1:07 PM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                               

                                              Lance,
                                              I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm an ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a brand new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do you know what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good in comparison! I don't really need to see the videos, because your description tells me all that seeing the videos would. Only videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I can see if something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is already set perfectly.
                                              I have changed a few things on this burner:
                                              (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas feed.
                                              (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it can be ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
                                              Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of gas volume to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty two"; lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying to overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure will over accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
                                              The problem is that so many things, or combination of things, which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in the gas feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not set right; poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or mounting plate to funnel opening).
                                              We will either have to go over every single detail (with photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out "hands on." I know that mailing it is expensive and inconvenient; reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I don't make the offer lightly.
                                              Either solution might be a lot of work for both of us; on the other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
                                              My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with her help I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My buddy Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to help me make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't mean such a video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will prove that the burner design does work, but that is no help in pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be obvious.
                                              Things are actually much better for you than they seem, because when a burner is running so badly, the solution is usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the burners that are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild (or a trash can).
                                              Mikey


                                              The shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not light, even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into the mixing tube.

                                               

                                              Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5 psi, but the flame is weak

                                              and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is running full tilt, but the flame

                                              appears to be oxygen starved. 

                                               

                                              With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8 psi with no trouble.

                                              What are the parameters with the vortex?

                                               

                                              Where is a good place to upload the videos so you can see what's happening?

                                               






                                              --
                                              Jeremy - Columbus, GA USA



                                              --
                                              Jeremy - Columbus, GA USA

                                            • mikey98118
                                              Jeremy, I hear you; the burner is still in process . Most people have no idea how critical the beveling is. I get more resistance on that point than any
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Jun 28, 2014
                                                Jeremy,
                                                I hear you; the burner is still "in process".
                                                Most people have no idea how critical the beveling is. I get more resistance on that point than any other. I think this is because they believe the beveling is hard to do. Actually, the beveling is easy if you use a hand held rotary tool, and diamond coated rotary files. The only places that  are tricky are the very last bit of the corners, and only then if people don't have a 1/8" fine point diamond coated rotary file. This technique isn't in the book, because rotary hand tools were much more expensive than small right angle grinders back then; a problem that has vanished in the last decade:  http://www.harborfreight.com/variable-speed-rotary-tool-kit-68696.html Or a better tool for an extra five bucks: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Black-Decker-3-Speed-RTX-Rotary-Tool-RTX-B/9714694  Files: http://www.harborfreight.com/20-piece-18-shank-rotary-diamond-point-tips-69653.html 
                                                A tapered flame nozzle also does not work properly on my burners; it simply doesn't provide a great enough drop in internal pressure, or the right configuration to hold the flame deep inside the nozzle for complete ignition of the fuel gas in a primary wave front.
                                                Mikey
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: Jeremy Winder cptwinder@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 02:53:02 -0000 (UTC)
                                                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                                                 
                                                Thank you for the recommendation!
                                                The nozzle that is on there is tapered on the inside. I believe at 12 degrees if I remember correctly. This burner doesn't have all of the filing on the intakes that you recommend in your book. I know I can spend more time and make it much better.
                                                The burner was slapped together in a day and the video was taken to send to a friend that thought I was nuts and couldn't do it.


                                                On Jun 27, 2014, at 9:13 PM, "michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast]" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                                 

                                                Jeremy,
                                                If you want to get a really hot flame, you must finish the burner with a proper flame nozzle. I can't see the back part of the burner, but I'm guessing it is a high-speed tube burner (Mikey burner). It isn't hard to build the nozzle; you just order the stock already cut from onlinemetals.com, drill and thread a few holes for stainless steel socket head screws, and away you go.
                                                Mikey
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: Jeremy Winder cptwinder@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:28:10 -0000 (UTC)
                                                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                                                 
                                                Mikey,
                                                As you wished, here is a video of my furnace burner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FDORGLIfWs&feature=youtu.be
                                                It is NOT a vortex burner, it isn't even a good representation of a Mikey Burner. I also haven't used it to melt anything yet, as I am still in the process of building the furnace. But it is a video of a burner all the same. ;)
                                                Jeremy

                                                On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 12:42 AM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                                 

                                                Jeremy,
                                                The original plan was to get one of you guys to finish a burner and do the video for me! That worked out about as well as planting a garden to get out of mowing the lawnTongue Out
                                                Mikey
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: Jeremy Winder cptwinder@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>

                                                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 00:01:52 -0000 (UTC)
                                                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Mikey re Vortex Burner
                                                 
                                                Mikey,
                                                I personally would love to see a video of one of these burners running correctly. Even if it doesn't directly help Lance, I would appreciate seeing your video.
                                                Jeremy

                                                On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 1:07 PM, michael.a.porter@... [hobbicast] <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                                 

                                                Lance,
                                                I had zero luck opening the video because: One, I'm an ignorant old metal worker who needed night classes just to use a computer at all, and; two, I wasted about two grand on a brand new computer with a Windows Eight operating system. Do you know what single virtue Eight has? It makes Vista look good in comparison! I don't really need to see the videos, because your description tells me all that seeing the videos would. Only videos of working burners tell much of value; then, I can see if something needs a little tweaking, or if the burner is already set perfectly.
                                                I have changed a few things on this burner:
                                                (1) I'm using a 1/4" copper tube, because it allows anyone to solder a MIG contact tip in place, and provides a better gas feed.
                                                (2) The plate thickness is upped to 3/8" because it can be ordered as flat bar, which is much cheaper than plate.
                                                Your burner's symptoms sound very much like lack of gas volume to the burner, which puts you in a "catch twenty two"; lower pressure just aggravates the problem, but trying to overcome the lack of volume with feed higher pressure will over accelerate the gas molecules, messing up proper mixing.
                                                The problem is that so many things, or combination of things, which won't be obvious to see in a video, can cause your problems (ex. a bit of solder where it doesn't belong in the gas feed, or some other constriction; nozzle overhang not set right; poor seal, or obstruction in fan to mounting plate, or mounting plate to funnel opening).
                                                We will either have to go over every single detail (with photos) by email, or I'll need to check the burner out "hands on." I know that mailing it is expensive and inconvenient; reworking a burner isn't cheap or easy for me either; I don't make the offer lightly.
                                                Either solution might be a lot of work for both of us; on the other hand, have you had a better offer lately?
                                                My wife will be home from Europe next week, and with her help I can get a video of my own 1" Vortex burner running. My buddy Gene should be back from his RV road trip in time to help me make a video, if she can't help enough. That doesn't mean such a video will necessarily  do you any good. Mostly, it will prove that the burner design does work, but that is no help in pinpointing some particular problem, which may not be obvious.
                                                Things are actually much better for you than they seem, because when a burner is running so badly, the solution is usually a simple fix; isn't that ironic? It's the burners that are running weakly that usually need a complete rebuild (or a trash can).
                                                Mikey


                                                The shallow bell and the deeper bell you sent will not light, even at 15 psi gas pressure. Their video is on Google drive. The flame is burning back into the mixing tube.

                                                 

                                                Tonight I got the custom made bell to light at 5 psi, but the flame is weak

                                                and very yellow even up to 15 psi. The fan is running full tilt, but the flame

                                                appears to be oxygen starved. 

                                                 

                                                With my venturi aspirated burners, I run about 8 psi with no trouble.

                                                What are the parameters with the vortex?

                                                 

                                                Where is a good place to upload the videos so you can see what's happening?

                                                 






                                                --
                                                Jeremy - Columbus, GA USA




                                                --
                                                Jeremy - Columbus, GA USA

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