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Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)

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  • Jeshua Lacock
    ... Another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A796N_YZTm8 Looks like it was caused from a drop of water in the mold. Good times! Cheers, Jeshua Lacock
    Message 1 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
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      On Mar 12, 2013, at 10:55 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

      > I went to UTube for some of the stupid guys doing what you say is so dangerous:

      Another one:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A796N_YZTm8

      Looks like it was caused from a drop of water in the mold.

      Good times!


      Cheers,

      Jeshua Lacock
      Founder/Engineer
      3DTOPO Incorporated
      <http://3DTOPO.com>
      Phone: 208.462.4171
    • David Patterson
      Nelson that s not even close to what we re talking about. Pouring metal into water has been done since before you were born. We re talking about a closed mold
      Message 2 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
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        Nelson that's not even close to what we're talking about. Pouring metal into water has been done since before you were born.
        We're talking about a closed mold that has excess water in the sand. In the case I was refering to was an over wet drag, in just one area. the mold is pour fast and the moist sand covered quickly enough to not allow the steam to escape the mold fast enough to prevent the mold from exploding.
        With that in mind, is why I make only the molds I'm going to pour that day.

        Dave Patterson
        odd_kins@...
        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

        --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:


        From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
        To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 9:55 PM



         



        I went to UTube for some of the stupid guys doing what you say is so dangerous:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkfyj42f6EU
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4sTS5uvWOM
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWUF6wuYDt0

        ________________________________
        From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:51 PM
        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)


         
        Jeshua, I have to agree with you. I have only seen one steam explosion during the time I worked for at a local foundry. luckly no one was hurt, as all were wearing safety equipment.
        Water enter the mold from a leak in the roof, dropped into a riser so no one knew it soaked the sand. The mold did blow sand and aluminum out of the mold far enough to destroy other molds and could have hurt those nearby, not by the explosion but by liquid metal falling all around.

        Dave Patterson
        odd_kins@...
        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

        --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:

        From: Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...>
        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 8:35 PM

         

        On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:30 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

        > Well I can say I am no newbie. I've cast more years than you wiped your own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out of the mold and blow holes where the gas from the excessive water could not fill because of steam. NO it is not a dangerous. Some of you all get a little bit of knowledge and think you know it all. This group is not what it was years ago. Wonk what keep you around?

        How do you know you have cast more years than I have wiped my nose? I am no newbie either. I too have poured on wet sand.

        But yeah water and molten metal are totally safe. No possibility of explosions. No one has ever been maimed or killed or anything. No need to be cautious.

        Get real.

        The reason why you have been able to pour on wet sand is because the a. sand helps, and b. there must have not been enough pressure built up. Confine some steam and you have serious danger.

        Sincerely,

        Jeshua Lacock
        Founder/Engineer
        3DTOPO Incorporated
        <http://3DTOPO.com>
        Phone: 208.462.4171

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Nelson Collar
        I just get tired of hearing how dangerous molten metal and water is. Its dangerous getting out of your bed in the morning, you could slip an fall and we all
        Message 3 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
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          I just get tired of hearing how dangerous molten metal and water is. Its dangerous getting out of your bed in the morning, you could slip an fall and we all know what that does to ones body. So dangerous is what you make it. Missing steps and rushing will cause mistakes like that. If you have plenty of holes through your sand to let the gas and steam out explosion is very unlikely to happen. Anything can be dangerous that is the reason for rules and guide lines.
          Nelson Collar 


          ________________________________
          From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 1:18 AM
          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)


           
          Nelson that's not even close to what we're talking about. Pouring metal into water has been done since before you were born.
          We're talking about a closed mold that has excess water in the sand. In the case I was refering to was an over wet drag, in just one area. the mold is pour fast and the moist sand covered quickly enough to not allow the steam to escape the mold fast enough to prevent the mold from exploding.
          With that in mind, is why I make only the molds I'm going to pour that day.

          Dave Patterson
          odd_kins@...
          http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

          --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:

          From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
          To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 9:55 PM

           

          I went to UTube for some of the stupid guys doing what you say is so dangerous:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkfyj42f6EU
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4sTS5uvWOM
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWUF6wuYDt0

          ________________________________
          From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:51 PM
          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)

           
          Jeshua, I have to agree with you. I have only seen one steam explosion during the time I worked for at a local foundry. luckly no one was hurt, as all were wearing safety equipment.
          Water enter the mold from a leak in the roof, dropped into a riser so no one knew it soaked the sand. The mold did blow sand and aluminum out of the mold far enough to destroy other molds and could have hurt those nearby, not by the explosion but by liquid metal falling all around.

          Dave Patterson
          odd_kins@...
          http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

          --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:

          From: Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...>
          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 8:35 PM

           

          On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:30 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

          > Well I can say I am no newbie. I've cast more years than you wiped your own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out of the mold and blow holes where the gas from the excessive water could not fill because of steam. NO it is not a dangerous. Some of you all get a little bit of knowledge and think you know it all. This group is not what it was years ago. Wonk what keep you around?

          How do you know you have cast more years than I have wiped my nose? I am no newbie either. I too have poured on wet sand.

          But yeah water and molten metal are totally safe. No possibility of explosions. No one has ever been maimed or killed or anything. No need to be cautious.

          Get real.

          The reason why you have been able to pour on wet sand is because the a. sand helps, and b. there must have not been enough pressure built up. Confine some steam and you have serious danger.

          Sincerely,

          Jeshua Lacock
          Founder/Engineer
          3DTOPO Incorporated
          <http://3DTOPO.com>
          Phone: 208.462.4171

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jeshua Lacock
          ... Well that is not what you said. You said NO it is not a dangerous . Ask the widows of those documented OSHA cases if they agree. Then just because I state
          Message 4 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
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            On Mar 13, 2013, at 12:03 AM, Nelson Collar wrote:

            > I just get tired of hearing how dangerous molten metal and water is. Its dangerous getting out of your bed in the morning, you could slip an fall and we all know what that does to ones body. So dangerous is what you make it. Missing steps and rushing will cause mistakes like that. If you have plenty of holes through your sand to let the gas and steam out explosion is very unlikely to happen. Anything can be dangerous that is the reason for rules and guide lines.

            Well that is not what you said. You said "NO it is not a dangerous".

            Ask the widows of those documented OSHA cases if they agree.

            Then just because I state "Explosions are certainly a possibility" you go out of your way to make uncalled for nasty personal attacks.


            Sincerely,

            Jeshua Lacock
            Founder/Engineer
            3DTOPO Incorporated
            <http://3DTOPO.com>
            Phone: 208.462.4171
          • Jeshua Lacock
            ... P.S. Two of three videos I posted had explosions in completely open-faced molds. So much for the plenty of holes theory…. Jeshua Lacock
            Message 5 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
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              On Mar 13, 2013, at 12:03 AM, Nelson Collar wrote:

              > If you have plenty of holes through your sand to let the gas and steam out explosion is very unlikely to happen.

              P.S.

              Two of three videos I posted had explosions in completely open-faced molds. So much for the "plenty of holes" theory….


              Jeshua Lacock
              Founder/Engineer
              3DTOPO Incorporated
              <http://3DTOPO.com>
              Phone: 208.462.4171
            • tmoranwms
              Nelson, You, and people like you, are the reason behind a lot of problems: Safety is the number one reason industrial foundry equipment is so expensive. The
              Message 6 of 27 , Mar 13, 2013
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                Nelson,

                You, and people like you, are the reason behind a lot of problems:

                Safety is the number one reason industrial foundry equipment is so expensive. The company I work at does NOT build or sell melting furnaces. There is a sister company which does, and they literally mark up an identical product by 40%, just to cover legal fees. Because, for some reason, the very same people who make claims like yours, magically forget those claims when they literally blow up in their faces and start a lawsuit. So much for making a personal decision, eh?

                For the same reason, companies will not sell this type of equipment to the general public, even if someone wanted to pay the exorbitant cost for it.

                It is the same rationalization which smokers excuse their habit with. "Oh, it's a risk, but it's my choice, and I've accepted that risk." That's fine, you can kill yourself if you wish, but never tell someone else that taking a risk is fine. That is inexcusable and monstrous.

                The cost to society at large is considerable. If all those smokers, who made their personal decision, decided suddenly, "yeah, smoking IS bad" and stopped, average life expectancy will increase five years or so. And that means five more years of economic output and five more years of spending life with family and friends.

                And I'm not saying personal decisions shouldn't be made, I'm saying they are rarely, if ever, made with consideration of all those who are affected by it.

                The man who's missing a finger is a wise machinist. But the man with all fingers is the wisest machinist. Think about it.

                As for molds themselves, you can never be too careful. You're taking a risk with molten metal anywhere, and especially anywhere near moisture. A greensand mold is an inherent risk, and by lucky chance it's permeable enough to avoid disaster. Even so, they explode from time to time, due to excessive or misplaced moisture, stuff falling in and so on. I don't have experience with Petrobond and how permeable it is for oil and water vapors.

                Tim

                --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:
                >
                > Well I can say I am no newbie. I've cast more years than you wiped your own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out of the mold and blow holes where the gas from the excessive water could not fill because of steam. NO it is not a dangerous. Some of you all get a little bit of knowledge and think you know it all. This group is not what it was years ago. Wonk what keep you around?
                > Nelson Collar 
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...>
                > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:51 PM
                > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                > On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:49 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:
                >
                > > I must comment about this exploding molds. It is not a percussion thing, it is a gas from water and a lot of steam. I will not blow up on you.
                >
                > Explosions are certainly a possibility.
                >
                > If the steam develops any appreciable pressure explosion can be a very real threat.
                >
                > Best,
                >
                > Jeshua Lacock
                > Founder/Engineer
                > 3DTOPO Incorporated
                > <http://3DTOPO.com>
                > Phone: 208.462.4171
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Joseph Feldmann
                Hey there, folks-    We re all freinds on this list, more or less. The vitriole on this matter is unneccessary. Everyone has their own level of safety
                Message 7 of 27 , Mar 13, 2013
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                  Hey there, folks-
                     We're all freinds on this list, more or less. The vitriole on this matter is unneccessary. Everyone has their own level of safety comfort. As George Carlin once said "Anyone who drives slower than me is an a**hole; Anyone who drives faster is a maniac." To my mind, this falls in that category.
                     That said, whenever I teach metalcasting to newbies, from pewter to bronze, I always stress a quote I picked up from one of these lists, maybe this one: Handling molten metal is like playing with a thimble full of hell. If you keep that thought in mind in all you do, you can reduce the chance of being bitten by it to its minimum.
                     Just my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth. Come to think of it, 2 cents isn't worth much anymore, is it.

                  Yvan Wolvesbane
                  Pacifist ...with occasional lapses.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Glenn N
                  I had a rather exciting incident trying to pour aluminum into paper towel tubes to make round bar for the lathe. It was just plain sand that got a bit of
                  Message 8 of 27 , Mar 13, 2013
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                    I had a rather exciting incident trying to pour aluminum into paper towel
                    tubes to make round bar for the lathe. It was just plain sand that got a
                    bit of moisture in it sitting out over night. I stuffed the tube in and
                    poured sand around it. When I poured the aluminum in it made a nice poof
                    and blew sand and molten aluminum out of the hole. It burned holes in my
                    leathers and made me do a dance, but I wouldn't exactly call it an
                    explosion. No bang, no shock wave felt. Pyroclastic even for sure but not
                    an explosion.
                    Did I say it scared the shit out of me?? ;)

                    Glenn
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "David Patterson" <odd_kins@...>
                    To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:18 PM
                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)


                    Nelson that's not even close to what we're talking about. Pouring metal into
                    water has been done since before you were born.
                    We're talking about a closed mold that has excess water in the sand. In the
                    case I was refering to was an over wet drag, in just one area. the mold is
                    pour fast and the moist sand covered quickly enough to not allow the steam
                    to escape the mold fast enough to prevent the mold from exploding.
                    With that in mind, is why I make only the molds I'm going to pour that day.

                    Dave Patterson
                    odd_kins@...
                    http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                    --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:


                    From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
                    To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 9:55 PM







                    I went to UTube for some of the stupid guys doing what you say is so
                    dangerous:

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkfyj42f6EU
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4sTS5uvWOM
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWUF6wuYDt0

                    ________________________________
                    From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                    To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:51 PM
                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)



                    Jeshua, I have to agree with you. I have only seen one steam explosion
                    during the time I worked for at a local foundry. luckly no one was hurt, as
                    all were wearing safety equipment.
                    Water enter the mold from a leak in the roof, dropped into a riser so no one
                    knew it soaked the sand. The mold did blow sand and aluminum out of the mold
                    far enough to destroy other molds and could have hurt those nearby, not by
                    the explosion but by liquid metal falling all around.

                    Dave Patterson
                    odd_kins@...
                    http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                    --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:

                    From: Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...>
                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
                    To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 8:35 PM



                    On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:30 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                    > Well I can say I am no newbie. I've cast more years than you wiped your
                    > own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out
                    > of the mold and blow holes where the gas from the excessive water could
                    > not fill because of steam. NO it is not a dangerous. Some of you all get a
                    > little bit of knowledge and think you know it all. This group is not what
                    > it was years ago. Wonk what keep you around?

                    How do you know you have cast more years than I have wiped my nose? I am no
                    newbie either. I too have poured on wet sand.

                    But yeah water and molten metal are totally safe. No possibility of
                    explosions. No one has ever been maimed or killed or anything. No need to be
                    cautious.

                    Get real.

                    The reason why you have been able to pour on wet sand is because the a. sand
                    helps, and b. there must have not been enough pressure built up. Confine
                    some steam and you have serious danger.

                    Sincerely,

                    Jeshua Lacock
                    Founder/Engineer
                    3DTOPO Incorporated
                    <http://3DTOPO.com>
                    Phone: 208.462.4171

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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