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Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)

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  • Jeshua Lacock
    ... Maybe try adding a few pouches of desiccant in the molds. If you don t have any desiccant packets laying around, try making your own with dry rice in
    Message 1 of 27 , Mar 11, 2013
      On Mar 11, 2013, at 6:14 PM, Rupert wrote:

      > I usually do the pouring right away too or at least the next day. I
      > was pouring some large castings. The molds I have now were made in case
      > I had enough extra molten metal to left over.
      > I've left molds sitting for a few days before but they were green
      > sand covered with a board. It's possible green sand will absorb moisture
      > from damp air so droplets don't form.

      Maybe try adding a few pouches of desiccant in the molds.

      If you don't have any desiccant packets laying around, try making your own with dry rice in pantyhose or something like that...

      It would be very helpful if you added these packets before anytime you were going to let your molds sit for days.


      Best,

      Jeshua Lacock
      Founder/Engineer
      3DTOPO Incorporated
      <http://3DTOPO.com>
      Phone: 208.462.4171
    • Steven DePhillips
      If you can get a dehumidifier and let it run for a day or so it will dry the place up.  I used one when i was coating my lost foam patterns in watered down
      Message 2 of 27 , Mar 11, 2013
        If you can get a dehumidifier and let it run for a day or so it will dry the place up.  I used one when i was coating my lost foam patterns in watered down drywall putty and it worked great.


        ________________________________
        From: Rupert <rwenig2@...>
        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 7:34 PM
        Subject: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)


         
        Hello Guys,
        I've had an open mold and several closed molds waiting for me to
        get around to doing a melt. The open mold requires a core before
        closing. I like to warm my cores before use to make sure they are dry. I
        figured today was a good day to do the pour before another project got
        in the way so I turned the heat on this morning to warm things up as I
        don't have the heat on when I'm not using the building. I went to
        prepare the open mold for pouring this afternoon but saw some tiny shiny
        balls in the cavity. The shiny balls turned out to be water droplets. I
        opened a couple of the other molds to check but didn't see any water
        droplets in them. So what to do? A figured the expanded volume of the
        superheated droplets I saw would be larger than the cavity of the mold.
        I postponed the melt to be on the safe side as I don't want to
        experience an exploding mold.
        Now my reason for posting this. How do you guys in damp climates
        cope with moisture from the air in the mold? Is my concern warranted?
        Some details: I'm using petrobond II molding sand. The moisture
        comes from snow melting off a car that is stored inside when I'm not
        using the foundry. The warmth from the car also keeps the air temp from
        falling much below -5C when the heating is off.

        Rupert
        --

        yvt

        Rupert Wenig
        Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

        email: rwenig2@...

        http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Wonk
        Rupert, My foundry area is open and under a lean-to with 2 walls closed a third with a 3 X 4 open window and the 4th side open. I try not to mold ahead but
        Message 3 of 27 , Mar 11, 2013
          Rupert,

          My foundry area is open and under a lean-to with 2 walls closed a third with a 3' X 4' open window and the 4th side open. I try not to mold ahead but there are times when I run out of steam with my health issues that force me to quit before I've poured all my molds. I use a mix of alcohol and graphite powder in a spray bottle and spray both the cope and the drag and flat surfaces, etc with this. I then light off the alcohol and that warms the cavity and surounding sand enough to drive off any seen or suspected moisture. I use a toaster oven bought from a second hand store to warm any cores and ingot trays.
          I've never had a steam explosion, I use both petrobond 1 and Olivine green sand.

          Cheers Wonk

          --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rwenig2@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Guys,
          > I've had an open mold and several closed molds waiting for me to
          > get around to doing a melt. The open mold requires a core before
          > closing. I like to warm my cores before use to make sure they are dry. I
          > figured today was a good day to do the pour before another project got
          > in the way so I turned the heat on this morning to warm things up as I
          > don't have the heat on when I'm not using the building. I went to
          > prepare the open mold for pouring this afternoon but saw some tiny shiny
          > balls in the cavity. The shiny balls turned out to be water droplets. I
          > opened a couple of the other molds to check but didn't see any water
          > droplets in them. So what to do? A figured the expanded volume of the
          > superheated droplets I saw would be larger than the cavity of the mold.
          > I postponed the melt to be on the safe side as I don't want to
          > experience an exploding mold.
          > Now my reason for posting this. How do you guys in damp climates
          > cope with moisture from the air in the mold? Is my concern warranted?
          > Some details: I'm using petrobond II molding sand. The moisture
          > comes from snow melting off a car that is stored inside when I'm not
          > using the foundry. The warmth from the car also keeps the air temp from
          > falling much below -5C when the heating is off.
          >
          > Rupert
          > --
          >
          > yvt
          >
          > Rupert Wenig
          > Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
          >
          > email: rwenig2@...
          >
          > http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/
          >
        • Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
          Wonk I have had graphite and alcohol in stock for a while, but not found what ratio to use. What ratio of alcohol to graphite do you use? Malcolm I don t
          Message 4 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
            Wonk

            I have had graphite and alcohol in stock for a while, but not found what ratio to use. What ratio of alcohol to graphite do you use?

            Malcolm

            I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!

            Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin

            The writing is on the wall.

            --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Wonk <tiwonk@...> wrote:

            From: Wonk <tiwonk@...>
            Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Damp molds ( observation and question)
            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 6:14 AM
















             









            Rupert,



            My foundry area is open and under a lean-to with 2 walls closed a third with a 3' X 4' open window and the 4th side open. I try not to mold ahead but there are times when I run out of steam with my health issues that force me to quit before I've poured all my molds. I use a mix of alcohol and graphite powder in a spray bottle and spray both the cope and the drag and flat surfaces, etc with this. I then light off the alcohol and that warms the cavity and surounding sand enough to drive off any seen or suspected moisture. I use a toaster oven bought from a second hand store to warm any cores and ingot trays.

            I've never had a steam explosion, I use both petrobond 1 and Olivine green sand.



            Cheers Wonk



            --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rwenig2@...> wrote:

            >

            > Hello Guys,

            > I've had an open mold and several closed molds waiting for me to

            > get around to doing a melt. The open mold requires a core before

            > closing. I like to warm my cores before use to make sure they are dry. I

            > figured today was a good day to do the pour before another project got

            > in the way so I turned the heat on this morning to warm things up as I

            > don't have the heat on when I'm not using the building. I went to

            > prepare the open mold for pouring this afternoon but saw some tiny shiny

            > balls in the cavity. The shiny balls turned out to be water droplets. I

            > opened a couple of the other molds to check but didn't see any water

            > droplets in them. So what to do? A figured the expanded volume of the

            > superheated droplets I saw would be larger than the cavity of the mold.

            > I postponed the melt to be on the safe side as I don't want to

            > experience an exploding mold.

            > Now my reason for posting this. How do you guys in damp climates

            > cope with moisture from the air in the mold? Is my concern warranted?

            > Some details: I'm using petrobond II molding sand. The moisture

            > comes from snow melting off a car that is stored inside when I'm not

            > using the foundry. The warmth from the car also keeps the air temp from

            > falling much below -5C when the heating is off.

            >

            > Rupert

            > --

            >

            > yvt

            >

            > Rupert Wenig

            > Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

            >

            > email: rwenig2@...

            >

            > http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/

            >



























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rupert
            Hello Wonk, Thanks for the tip. I have a graphite/alcohol mix on hand but I never thought of using it when I am pouring aluminum or brass. I use it to improve
            Message 5 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
              Hello Wonk,
              Thanks for the tip. I have a graphite/alcohol mix on hand but I
              never thought of using it when I am pouring aluminum or brass. I use it
              to improve the finish when I do a cast iron pour. I also use green sand
              for cast iron pours.
              In any case, the water droplets are gone this morning so warming
              the place up did the trick.
              Toaster ovens are a handy addition to any foundry specially hobby
              foundries. I haven't had a moisture problem from a core since I started
              using a toaster oven to warm my cores.

              Rupert

              On 3/12/2013 12:14 AM, Wonk wrote:
              > Rupert,
              >
              > My foundry area is open and under a lean-to with 2 walls closed a third with a 3' X 4' open window and the 4th side open. I try not to mold ahead but there are times when I run out of steam with my health issues that force me to quit before I've poured all my molds. I use a mix of alcohol and graphite powder in a spray bottle and spray both the cope and the drag and flat surfaces, etc with this. I then light off the alcohol and that warms the cavity and surounding sand enough to drive off any seen or suspected moisture. I use a toaster oven bought from a second hand store to warm any cores and ingot trays.
              > I've never had a steam explosion, I use both petrobond 1 and Olivine green sand.
              >
              > Cheers Wonk
              >
              > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rwenig2@...> wrote:
              >> Hello Guys,
              >> I've had an open mold and several closed molds waiting for me to
              >> get around to doing a melt. The open mold requires a core before
              >> closing. I like to warm my cores before use to make sure they are dry. I
              >> figured today was a good day to do the pour before another project got
              >> in the way so I turned the heat on this morning to warm things up as I
              >> don't have the heat on when I'm not using the building. I went to
              >> prepare the open mold for pouring this afternoon but saw some tiny shiny
              >> balls in the cavity. The shiny balls turned out to be water droplets. I
              >> opened a couple of the other molds to check but didn't see any water
              >> droplets in them. So what to do? A figured the expanded volume of the
              >> superheated droplets I saw would be larger than the cavity of the mold.
              >> I postponed the melt to be on the safe side as I don't want to
              >> experience an exploding mold.
              >> Now my reason for posting this. How do you guys in damp climates
              >> cope with moisture from the air in the mold? Is my concern warranted?
              >> Some details: I'm using petrobond II molding sand. The moisture
              >> comes from snow melting off a car that is stored inside when I'm not
              >> using the foundry. The warmth from the car also keeps the air temp from
              >> falling much below -5C when the heating is off.
              >>
              >> Rupert
              >> --
              >>
              >> yvt
              >>
              >> Rupert Wenig
              >> Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
              >>
              >> email: rwenig2@...
              >>
              >> http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/
              >>
              >
              >
              >
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              --

              yvt

              Rupert Wenig
              Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

              email: rwenig2@...

              http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/
            • Wonk
              My efforts have been trial and test so I don t have a good blend to share! I don t think you can over-do it one way or another as the alcohol will evaporate if
              Message 6 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                My efforts have been trial and test so I don't have a good blend to share! I don't think you can over-do it one way or another as the alcohol will evaporate if needed. Graphite won't harm the aluminum melt so what ever seems to work is where I go. If I run into the secret sauce blend I will then share! <grin>

                Wonk



                --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:
                >
                > Wonk
                >
                > I have had graphite and alcohol in stock for a while, but not found what ratio to use. What ratio of alcohol to graphite do you use?
                >
                > Malcolm
                >
                > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                >
                > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                >
                > The writing is on the wall.
                >
                > --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Wonk <tiwonk@...> wrote:
                >
                > From: Wonk <tiwonk@...>
                > Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Damp molds ( observation and question)
                > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 6:14 AM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Rupert,
                >
                >
                >
                > My foundry area is open and under a lean-to with 2 walls closed a third with a 3' X 4' open window and the 4th side open. I try not to mold ahead but there are times when I run out of steam with my health issues that force me to quit before I've poured all my molds. I use a mix of alcohol and graphite powder in a spray bottle and spray both the cope and the drag and flat surfaces, etc with this. I then light off the alcohol and that warms the cavity and surounding sand enough to drive off any seen or suspected moisture. I use a toaster oven bought from a second hand store to warm any cores and ingot trays.
                >
                > I've never had a steam explosion, I use both petrobond 1 and Olivine green sand.
                >
                >
                >
                > Cheers Wonk
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rwenig2@> wrote:
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Hello Guys,
                >
                > > I've had an open mold and several closed molds waiting for me to
                >
                > > get around to doing a melt. The open mold requires a core before
                >
                > > closing. I like to warm my cores before use to make sure they are dry. I
                >
                > > figured today was a good day to do the pour before another project got
                >
                > > in the way so I turned the heat on this morning to warm things up as I
                >
                > > don't have the heat on when I'm not using the building. I went to
                >
                > > prepare the open mold for pouring this afternoon but saw some tiny shiny
                >
                > > balls in the cavity. The shiny balls turned out to be water droplets. I
                >
                > > opened a couple of the other molds to check but didn't see any water
                >
                > > droplets in them. So what to do? A figured the expanded volume of the
                >
                > > superheated droplets I saw would be larger than the cavity of the mold.
                >
                > > I postponed the melt to be on the safe side as I don't want to
                >
                > > experience an exploding mold.
                >
                > > Now my reason for posting this. How do you guys in damp climates
                >
                > > cope with moisture from the air in the mold? Is my concern warranted?
                >
                > > Some details: I'm using petrobond II molding sand. The moisture
                >
                > > comes from snow melting off a car that is stored inside when I'm not
                >
                > > using the foundry. The warmth from the car also keeps the air temp from
                >
                > > falling much below -5C when the heating is off.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Rupert
                >
                > > --
                >
                > >
                >
                > > yvt
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Rupert Wenig
                >
                > > Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > email: rwenig2@
                >
                > >
                >
                > > http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/
                >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Nelson Collar
                Rupert I must comment about this exploding molds. It is not a percussion thing, it is a gas from water and a lot of steam. I will not blow up on you. The
                Message 7 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                  Rupert
                  I must comment about this exploding molds. It is not a percussion thing, it is a gas from water and a lot of steam. I will not blow up on you. The graphite and alcohol sprayed on the mold will dry the surface, and the graphite makes a smoother casting with better release from the sand. If the sand is too wet you setting yourself up for failure and none of us want to pour a part more than once. That is not always the case, we are not pro's and sometimes we miss something that a pro would do because they learned from someone that knew what he was doing. We all learn from others and our mistakes, hopefully make us a good caster.
                  Best Casting to you 

                  Hello Wonk
                  How is the new shop coming? Love your burner pics, very impressive. 
                  Nelson Collar 


                  ________________________________
                  From: Rupert <rwenig2@...>
                  To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 7:34 PM
                  Subject: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)


                   
                  Hello Guys,
                  I've had an open mold and several closed molds waiting for me to
                  get around to doing a melt. The open mold requires a core before
                  closing. I like to warm my cores before use to make sure they are dry. I
                  figured today was a good day to do the pour before another project got
                  in the way so I turned the heat on this morning to warm things up as I
                  don't have the heat on when I'm not using the building. I went to
                  prepare the open mold for pouring this afternoon but saw some tiny shiny
                  balls in the cavity. The shiny balls turned out to be water droplets. I
                  opened a couple of the other molds to check but didn't see any water
                  droplets in them. So what to do? A figured the expanded volume of the
                  superheated droplets I saw would be larger than the cavity of the mold.
                  I postponed the melt to be on the safe side as I don't want to
                  experience an exploding mold.
                  Now my reason for posting this. How do you guys in damp climates
                  cope with moisture from the air in the mold? Is my concern warranted?
                  Some details: I'm using petrobond II molding sand. The moisture
                  comes from snow melting off a car that is stored inside when I'm not
                  using the foundry. The warmth from the car also keeps the air temp from
                  falling much below -5C when the heating is off.

                  Rupert
                  --

                  yvt

                  Rupert Wenig
                  Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

                  email: rwenig2@...

                  http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jeshua Lacock
                  ... Explosions are certainly a possibility. If the steam develops any appreciable pressure explosion can be a very real threat. Best, Jeshua Lacock
                  Message 8 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                    On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:49 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                    > I must comment about this exploding molds. It is not a percussion thing, it is a gas from water and a lot of steam. I will not blow up on you.

                    Explosions are certainly a possibility.

                    If the steam develops any appreciable pressure explosion can be a very real threat.


                    Best,

                    Jeshua Lacock
                    Founder/Engineer
                    3DTOPO Incorporated
                    <http://3DTOPO.com>
                    Phone: 208.462.4171
                  • Nelson Collar
                    Well I can say I am no newbie. I ve cast more years than you wiped your own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out of the mold
                    Message 9 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                      Well I can say I am no newbie. I've cast more years than you wiped your own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out of the mold and blow holes where the gas from the excessive water could not fill because of steam. NO it is not a dangerous. Some of you all get a little bit of knowledge and think you know it all. This group is not what it was years ago. Wonk what keep you around?
                      Nelson Collar 


                      ________________________________
                      From: Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...>
                      To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:51 PM
                      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)


                       

                      On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:49 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                      > I must comment about this exploding molds. It is not a percussion thing, it is a gas from water and a lot of steam. I will not blow up on you.

                      Explosions are certainly a possibility.

                      If the steam develops any appreciable pressure explosion can be a very real threat.

                      Best,

                      Jeshua Lacock
                      Founder/Engineer
                      3DTOPO Incorporated
                      <http://3DTOPO.com>
                      Phone: 208.462.4171




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jeshua Lacock
                      ... How do you know you have cast more years than I have wiped my nose? I am no newbie either. I too have poured on wet sand. But yeah water and molten metal
                      Message 10 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                        On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:30 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                        > Well I can say I am no newbie. I've cast more years than you wiped your own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out of the mold and blow holes where the gas from the excessive water could not fill because of steam. NO it is not a dangerous. Some of you all get a little bit of knowledge and think you know it all. This group is not what it was years ago. Wonk what keep you around?

                        How do you know you have cast more years than I have wiped my nose? I am no newbie either. I too have poured on wet sand.

                        But yeah water and molten metal are totally safe. No possibility of explosions. No one has ever been maimed or killed or anything. No need to be cautious.

                        Get real.

                        The reason why you have been able to pour on wet sand is because the a. sand helps, and b. there must have not been enough pressure built up. Confine some steam and you have serious danger.


                        Sincerely,

                        Jeshua Lacock
                        Founder/Engineer
                        3DTOPO Incorporated
                        <http://3DTOPO.com>
                        Phone: 208.462.4171
                      • Jeshua Lacock
                        ... I suppose these OSHA molten metal steam accidents are make believe?
                        Message 11 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                          On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:30 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                          > Well I can say I am no newbie. I've cast more years than you wiped your own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out of the mold and blow holes where the gas from the excessive water could not fill because of steam. NO it is not a dangerous. Some of you all get a little bit of knowledge and think you know it all. This group is not what it was years ago. Wonk what keep you around?

                          I suppose these OSHA molten metal steam accidents are make believe?

                          http://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/accidentsearch.search?sic=&sicgroup=&acc_description=&acc_abstract=&acc_keyword=%22Molten%20Metal%22&inspnr=&fatal=&officetype=&office=&startmonth=&startday=&startyear=&endmonth=&endday=&endyear=&keyword_list=on&p_start=&p_finish=180&p_sort=&p_desc=DESC&p_direction=Next&p_show=20


                          Cheers,

                          Jeshua Lacock
                          Founder/Engineer
                          3DTOPO Incorporated
                          <http://3DTOPO.com>
                          Phone: 208.462.4171
                        • Jeshua Lacock
                          ... p.s. And who the hell are you to say that I have a little bit of knowledge? You have no idea of the extent of knowledge and experience I have. Sincerely,
                          Message 12 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                            On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:30 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                            > Well I can say I am no newbie. I've cast more years than you wiped your own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out of the mold and blow holes where the gas from the excessive water could not fill because of steam. NO it is not a dangerous. Some of you all get a little bit of knowledge and think you know it all. This group is not what it was years ago. Wonk what keep you around?

                            p.s.

                            And who the hell are you to say that I have a little bit of knowledge? You have no idea of the extent of knowledge and experience I have.


                            Sincerely,

                            Jeshua Lacock
                            Founder/Engineer
                            3DTOPO Incorporated
                            <http://3DTOPO.com>
                            Phone: 208.462.4171
                          • David Patterson
                            Jeshua, I have to agree with you. I have only seen one steam explosion during the time I worked for at a local foundry. luckly no one was hurt, as all were
                            Message 13 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                              Jeshua, I have to agree with you. I have only seen one steam explosion during the time I worked for at a local foundry. luckly no one was hurt, as all were wearing safety equipment.
                              Water enter the mold from a leak in the roof, dropped into a riser so no one knew it soaked the sand. The mold did blow sand and aluminum out of the mold far enough to destroy other molds and could have hurt those nearby, not by the explosion but by liquid metal falling all around.

                              Dave Patterson
                              odd_kins@...
                              http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                              --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:


                              From: Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...>
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 8:35 PM



                               




                              On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:30 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                              > Well I can say I am no newbie. I've cast more years than you wiped your own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out of the mold and blow holes where the gas from the excessive water could not fill because of steam. NO it is not a dangerous. Some of you all get a little bit of knowledge and think you know it all. This group is not what it was years ago. Wonk what keep you around?

                              How do you know you have cast more years than I have wiped my nose? I am no newbie either. I too have poured on wet sand.

                              But yeah water and molten metal are totally safe. No possibility of explosions. No one has ever been maimed or killed or anything. No need to be cautious.

                              Get real.

                              The reason why you have been able to pour on wet sand is because the a. sand helps, and b. there must have not been enough pressure built up. Confine some steam and you have serious danger.

                              Sincerely,

                              Jeshua Lacock
                              Founder/Engineer
                              3DTOPO Incorporated
                              <http://3DTOPO.com>
                              Phone: 208.462.4171








                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Nelson Collar
                              I went to UTube for some of the stupid guys doing what you say is so dangerous: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkfyj42f6EU
                              Message 14 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                                I went to UTube for some of the stupid guys doing what you say is so dangerous:

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkfyj42f6EU
                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4sTS5uvWOM
                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWUF6wuYDt0



                                ________________________________
                                From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:51 PM
                                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)


                                 
                                Jeshua, I have to agree with you. I have only seen one steam explosion during the time I worked for at a local foundry. luckly no one was hurt, as all were wearing safety equipment.
                                Water enter the mold from a leak in the roof, dropped into a riser so no one knew it soaked the sand. The mold did blow sand and aluminum out of the mold far enough to destroy other molds and could have hurt those nearby, not by the explosion but by liquid metal falling all around.

                                Dave Patterson
                                odd_kins@...
                                http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:

                                From: Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...>
                                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
                                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 8:35 PM

                                 

                                On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:30 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                                > Well I can say I am no newbie. I've cast more years than you wiped your own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out of the mold and blow holes where the gas from the excessive water could not fill because of steam. NO it is not a dangerous. Some of you all get a little bit of knowledge and think you know it all. This group is not what it was years ago. Wonk what keep you around?

                                How do you know you have cast more years than I have wiped my nose? I am no newbie either. I too have poured on wet sand.

                                But yeah water and molten metal are totally safe. No possibility of explosions. No one has ever been maimed or killed or anything. No need to be cautious.

                                Get real.

                                The reason why you have been able to pour on wet sand is because the a. sand helps, and b. there must have not been enough pressure built up. Confine some steam and you have serious danger.

                                Sincerely,

                                Jeshua Lacock
                                Founder/Engineer
                                3DTOPO Incorporated
                                <http://3DTOPO.com>
                                Phone: 208.462.4171

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Jeshua Lacock
                                ... That proves nothing. Who here is pouring into molds under water? Besides, one commenter posted: Also a great way to cause a steam explosion that throws
                                Message 15 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                                  On Mar 12, 2013, at 10:55 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                                  > I went to UTube for some of the stupid guys doing what you say is so dangerous:

                                  That proves nothing. Who here is pouring into molds under water?

                                  Besides, one commenter posted:

                                  "Also a great way to cause a steam explosion that throws hot metal everywhere."

                                  To which the arthur of the video replies:

                                  "Yeah, that's why it's a good idea to use metals with relatively low melting points."


                                  The author of the 3rd post states:

                                  "An unheated metal tube pushed to the bottom of the molten metal is enough to cause a steam explosion."

                                  So I am afraid these so called examples are only working against you. I imagine if you dumped 5 gallons of molten aluminum into a gallon of water you would see very different results.

                                  Incidentally here is a video of a steam explosion:

                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lycq2kwQqHE

                                  I suppose that must be special effects?


                                  Sincerely,

                                  Jeshua Lacock
                                  Founder/Engineer
                                  3DTOPO Incorporated
                                  <http://3DTOPO.com>
                                  Phone: 208.462.4171
                                • Jeshua Lacock
                                  ... Here is the aftermath of a lead steam explosion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=Pe9wy9SjxjQ Looks really safe and fun huh? Jeshua
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                                    On Mar 12, 2013, at 10:55 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                                    > I went to UTube for some of the stupid guys doing what you say is so dangerous:

                                    Here is the aftermath of a lead steam explosion:

                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=Pe9wy9SjxjQ

                                    Looks really safe and fun huh?


                                    Jeshua Lacock
                                    Founder/Engineer
                                    3DTOPO Incorporated
                                    <http://3DTOPO.com>
                                    Phone: 208.462.4171
                                  • Jeshua Lacock
                                    ... Another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A796N_YZTm8 Looks like it was caused from a drop of water in the mold. Good times! Cheers, Jeshua Lacock
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                                      On Mar 12, 2013, at 10:55 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                                      > I went to UTube for some of the stupid guys doing what you say is so dangerous:

                                      Another one:

                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A796N_YZTm8

                                      Looks like it was caused from a drop of water in the mold.

                                      Good times!


                                      Cheers,

                                      Jeshua Lacock
                                      Founder/Engineer
                                      3DTOPO Incorporated
                                      <http://3DTOPO.com>
                                      Phone: 208.462.4171
                                    • David Patterson
                                      Nelson that s not even close to what we re talking about. Pouring metal into water has been done since before you were born. We re talking about a closed mold
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                                        Nelson that's not even close to what we're talking about. Pouring metal into water has been done since before you were born.
                                        We're talking about a closed mold that has excess water in the sand. In the case I was refering to was an over wet drag, in just one area. the mold is pour fast and the moist sand covered quickly enough to not allow the steam to escape the mold fast enough to prevent the mold from exploding.
                                        With that in mind, is why I make only the molds I'm going to pour that day.

                                        Dave Patterson
                                        odd_kins@...
                                        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                        --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:


                                        From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
                                        To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 9:55 PM



                                         



                                        I went to UTube for some of the stupid guys doing what you say is so dangerous:

                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkfyj42f6EU
                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4sTS5uvWOM
                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWUF6wuYDt0

                                        ________________________________
                                        From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                                        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:51 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)


                                         
                                        Jeshua, I have to agree with you. I have only seen one steam explosion during the time I worked for at a local foundry. luckly no one was hurt, as all were wearing safety equipment.
                                        Water enter the mold from a leak in the roof, dropped into a riser so no one knew it soaked the sand. The mold did blow sand and aluminum out of the mold far enough to destroy other molds and could have hurt those nearby, not by the explosion but by liquid metal falling all around.

                                        Dave Patterson
                                        odd_kins@...
                                        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                        --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:

                                        From: Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
                                        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 8:35 PM

                                         

                                        On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:30 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                                        > Well I can say I am no newbie. I've cast more years than you wiped your own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out of the mold and blow holes where the gas from the excessive water could not fill because of steam. NO it is not a dangerous. Some of you all get a little bit of knowledge and think you know it all. This group is not what it was years ago. Wonk what keep you around?

                                        How do you know you have cast more years than I have wiped my nose? I am no newbie either. I too have poured on wet sand.

                                        But yeah water and molten metal are totally safe. No possibility of explosions. No one has ever been maimed or killed or anything. No need to be cautious.

                                        Get real.

                                        The reason why you have been able to pour on wet sand is because the a. sand helps, and b. there must have not been enough pressure built up. Confine some steam and you have serious danger.

                                        Sincerely,

                                        Jeshua Lacock
                                        Founder/Engineer
                                        3DTOPO Incorporated
                                        <http://3DTOPO.com>
                                        Phone: 208.462.4171

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Nelson Collar
                                        I just get tired of hearing how dangerous molten metal and water is. Its dangerous getting out of your bed in the morning, you could slip an fall and we all
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                                          I just get tired of hearing how dangerous molten metal and water is. Its dangerous getting out of your bed in the morning, you could slip an fall and we all know what that does to ones body. So dangerous is what you make it. Missing steps and rushing will cause mistakes like that. If you have plenty of holes through your sand to let the gas and steam out explosion is very unlikely to happen. Anything can be dangerous that is the reason for rules and guide lines.
                                          Nelson Collar 


                                          ________________________________
                                          From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 1:18 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)


                                           
                                          Nelson that's not even close to what we're talking about. Pouring metal into water has been done since before you were born.
                                          We're talking about a closed mold that has excess water in the sand. In the case I was refering to was an over wet drag, in just one area. the mold is pour fast and the moist sand covered quickly enough to not allow the steam to escape the mold fast enough to prevent the mold from exploding.
                                          With that in mind, is why I make only the molds I'm going to pour that day.

                                          Dave Patterson
                                          odd_kins@...
                                          http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                          --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                          From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
                                          To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 9:55 PM

                                           

                                          I went to UTube for some of the stupid guys doing what you say is so dangerous:

                                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkfyj42f6EU
                                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4sTS5uvWOM
                                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWUF6wuYDt0

                                          ________________________________
                                          From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:51 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)

                                           
                                          Jeshua, I have to agree with you. I have only seen one steam explosion during the time I worked for at a local foundry. luckly no one was hurt, as all were wearing safety equipment.
                                          Water enter the mold from a leak in the roof, dropped into a riser so no one knew it soaked the sand. The mold did blow sand and aluminum out of the mold far enough to destroy other molds and could have hurt those nearby, not by the explosion but by liquid metal falling all around.

                                          Dave Patterson
                                          odd_kins@...
                                          http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                          --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:

                                          From: Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
                                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 8:35 PM

                                           

                                          On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:30 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                                          > Well I can say I am no newbie. I've cast more years than you wiped your own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out of the mold and blow holes where the gas from the excessive water could not fill because of steam. NO it is not a dangerous. Some of you all get a little bit of knowledge and think you know it all. This group is not what it was years ago. Wonk what keep you around?

                                          How do you know you have cast more years than I have wiped my nose? I am no newbie either. I too have poured on wet sand.

                                          But yeah water and molten metal are totally safe. No possibility of explosions. No one has ever been maimed or killed or anything. No need to be cautious.

                                          Get real.

                                          The reason why you have been able to pour on wet sand is because the a. sand helps, and b. there must have not been enough pressure built up. Confine some steam and you have serious danger.

                                          Sincerely,

                                          Jeshua Lacock
                                          Founder/Engineer
                                          3DTOPO Incorporated
                                          <http://3DTOPO.com>
                                          Phone: 208.462.4171

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Jeshua Lacock
                                          ... Well that is not what you said. You said NO it is not a dangerous . Ask the widows of those documented OSHA cases if they agree. Then just because I state
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                                            On Mar 13, 2013, at 12:03 AM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                                            > I just get tired of hearing how dangerous molten metal and water is. Its dangerous getting out of your bed in the morning, you could slip an fall and we all know what that does to ones body. So dangerous is what you make it. Missing steps and rushing will cause mistakes like that. If you have plenty of holes through your sand to let the gas and steam out explosion is very unlikely to happen. Anything can be dangerous that is the reason for rules and guide lines.

                                            Well that is not what you said. You said "NO it is not a dangerous".

                                            Ask the widows of those documented OSHA cases if they agree.

                                            Then just because I state "Explosions are certainly a possibility" you go out of your way to make uncalled for nasty personal attacks.


                                            Sincerely,

                                            Jeshua Lacock
                                            Founder/Engineer
                                            3DTOPO Incorporated
                                            <http://3DTOPO.com>
                                            Phone: 208.462.4171
                                          • Jeshua Lacock
                                            ... P.S. Two of three videos I posted had explosions in completely open-faced molds. So much for the plenty of holes theory…. Jeshua Lacock
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Mar 12, 2013
                                              On Mar 13, 2013, at 12:03 AM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                                              > If you have plenty of holes through your sand to let the gas and steam out explosion is very unlikely to happen.

                                              P.S.

                                              Two of three videos I posted had explosions in completely open-faced molds. So much for the "plenty of holes" theory….


                                              Jeshua Lacock
                                              Founder/Engineer
                                              3DTOPO Incorporated
                                              <http://3DTOPO.com>
                                              Phone: 208.462.4171
                                            • tmoranwms
                                              Nelson, You, and people like you, are the reason behind a lot of problems: Safety is the number one reason industrial foundry equipment is so expensive. The
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Mar 13, 2013
                                                Nelson,

                                                You, and people like you, are the reason behind a lot of problems:

                                                Safety is the number one reason industrial foundry equipment is so expensive. The company I work at does NOT build or sell melting furnaces. There is a sister company which does, and they literally mark up an identical product by 40%, just to cover legal fees. Because, for some reason, the very same people who make claims like yours, magically forget those claims when they literally blow up in their faces and start a lawsuit. So much for making a personal decision, eh?

                                                For the same reason, companies will not sell this type of equipment to the general public, even if someone wanted to pay the exorbitant cost for it.

                                                It is the same rationalization which smokers excuse their habit with. "Oh, it's a risk, but it's my choice, and I've accepted that risk." That's fine, you can kill yourself if you wish, but never tell someone else that taking a risk is fine. That is inexcusable and monstrous.

                                                The cost to society at large is considerable. If all those smokers, who made their personal decision, decided suddenly, "yeah, smoking IS bad" and stopped, average life expectancy will increase five years or so. And that means five more years of economic output and five more years of spending life with family and friends.

                                                And I'm not saying personal decisions shouldn't be made, I'm saying they are rarely, if ever, made with consideration of all those who are affected by it.

                                                The man who's missing a finger is a wise machinist. But the man with all fingers is the wisest machinist. Think about it.

                                                As for molds themselves, you can never be too careful. You're taking a risk with molten metal anywhere, and especially anywhere near moisture. A greensand mold is an inherent risk, and by lucky chance it's permeable enough to avoid disaster. Even so, they explode from time to time, due to excessive or misplaced moisture, stuff falling in and so on. I don't have experience with Petrobond and how permeable it is for oil and water vapors.

                                                Tim

                                                --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Well I can say I am no newbie. I've cast more years than you wiped your own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out of the mold and blow holes where the gas from the excessive water could not fill because of steam. NO it is not a dangerous. Some of you all get a little bit of knowledge and think you know it all. This group is not what it was years ago. Wonk what keep you around?
                                                > Nelson Collar 
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ________________________________
                                                > From: Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...>
                                                > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:51 PM
                                                > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >  
                                                >
                                                > On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:49 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:
                                                >
                                                > > I must comment about this exploding molds. It is not a percussion thing, it is a gas from water and a lot of steam. I will not blow up on you.
                                                >
                                                > Explosions are certainly a possibility.
                                                >
                                                > If the steam develops any appreciable pressure explosion can be a very real threat.
                                                >
                                                > Best,
                                                >
                                                > Jeshua Lacock
                                                > Founder/Engineer
                                                > 3DTOPO Incorporated
                                                > <http://3DTOPO.com>
                                                > Phone: 208.462.4171
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                              • Joseph Feldmann
                                                Hey there, folks-    We re all freinds on this list, more or less. The vitriole on this matter is unneccessary. Everyone has their own level of safety
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Mar 13, 2013
                                                  Hey there, folks-
                                                     We're all freinds on this list, more or less. The vitriole on this matter is unneccessary. Everyone has their own level of safety comfort. As George Carlin once said "Anyone who drives slower than me is an a**hole; Anyone who drives faster is a maniac." To my mind, this falls in that category.
                                                     That said, whenever I teach metalcasting to newbies, from pewter to bronze, I always stress a quote I picked up from one of these lists, maybe this one: Handling molten metal is like playing with a thimble full of hell. If you keep that thought in mind in all you do, you can reduce the chance of being bitten by it to its minimum.
                                                     Just my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth. Come to think of it, 2 cents isn't worth much anymore, is it.

                                                  Yvan Wolvesbane
                                                  Pacifist ...with occasional lapses.

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Glenn N
                                                  I had a rather exciting incident trying to pour aluminum into paper towel tubes to make round bar for the lathe. It was just plain sand that got a bit of
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Mar 13, 2013
                                                    I had a rather exciting incident trying to pour aluminum into paper towel
                                                    tubes to make round bar for the lathe. It was just plain sand that got a
                                                    bit of moisture in it sitting out over night. I stuffed the tube in and
                                                    poured sand around it. When I poured the aluminum in it made a nice poof
                                                    and blew sand and molten aluminum out of the hole. It burned holes in my
                                                    leathers and made me do a dance, but I wouldn't exactly call it an
                                                    explosion. No bang, no shock wave felt. Pyroclastic even for sure but not
                                                    an explosion.
                                                    Did I say it scared the shit out of me?? ;)

                                                    Glenn
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: "David Patterson" <odd_kins@...>
                                                    To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:18 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)


                                                    Nelson that's not even close to what we're talking about. Pouring metal into
                                                    water has been done since before you were born.
                                                    We're talking about a closed mold that has excess water in the sand. In the
                                                    case I was refering to was an over wet drag, in just one area. the mold is
                                                    pour fast and the moist sand covered quickly enough to not allow the steam
                                                    to escape the mold fast enough to prevent the mold from exploding.
                                                    With that in mind, is why I make only the molds I'm going to pour that day.

                                                    Dave Patterson
                                                    odd_kins@...
                                                    http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                                    --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:


                                                    From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
                                                    To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 9:55 PM







                                                    I went to UTube for some of the stupid guys doing what you say is so
                                                    dangerous:

                                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkfyj42f6EU
                                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4sTS5uvWOM
                                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWUF6wuYDt0

                                                    ________________________________
                                                    From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                                                    To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:51 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)



                                                    Jeshua, I have to agree with you. I have only seen one steam explosion
                                                    during the time I worked for at a local foundry. luckly no one was hurt, as
                                                    all were wearing safety equipment.
                                                    Water enter the mold from a leak in the roof, dropped into a riser so no one
                                                    knew it soaked the sand. The mold did blow sand and aluminum out of the mold
                                                    far enough to destroy other molds and could have hurt those nearby, not by
                                                    the explosion but by liquid metal falling all around.

                                                    Dave Patterson
                                                    odd_kins@...
                                                    http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                                    --- On Tue, 3/12/13, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Damp molds ( observation and question)
                                                    To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 8:35 PM



                                                    On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:30 PM, Nelson Collar wrote:

                                                    > Well I can say I am no newbie. I've cast more years than you wiped your
                                                    > own nose. I have had too wet sand and the danger is the metal spilling out
                                                    > of the mold and blow holes where the gas from the excessive water could
                                                    > not fill because of steam. NO it is not a dangerous. Some of you all get a
                                                    > little bit of knowledge and think you know it all. This group is not what
                                                    > it was years ago. Wonk what keep you around?

                                                    How do you know you have cast more years than I have wiped my nose? I am no
                                                    newbie either. I too have poured on wet sand.

                                                    But yeah water and molten metal are totally safe. No possibility of
                                                    explosions. No one has ever been maimed or killed or anything. No need to be
                                                    cautious.

                                                    Get real.

                                                    The reason why you have been able to pour on wet sand is because the a. sand
                                                    helps, and b. there must have not been enough pressure built up. Confine
                                                    some steam and you have serious danger.

                                                    Sincerely,

                                                    Jeshua Lacock
                                                    Founder/Engineer
                                                    3DTOPO Incorporated
                                                    <http://3DTOPO.com>
                                                    Phone: 208.462.4171

                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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