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Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

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  • Nelson Collar
    Sage I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque.  I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you
    Message 1 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Sage
      I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
      I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
      Good luck
      Nelson Collar 

      ________________________________
      From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
      To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


       
      Sage
      As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
      Nelson Collar

      ________________________________
      From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
      To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

      i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
      and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
      issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
      I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
      single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
      dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

      FWIW

      /sm

      On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Well
      > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
      > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
      > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
      > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
      > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
      > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
      > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
      > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
      > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
      > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
      > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
      > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
      > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
      > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
      > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
      > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
      > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
      > Good-Day
      >
      > Nelson Collar
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
      > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
      >
      > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
      > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
      > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
      > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
      > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
      > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
      > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
      > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
      > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
      > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
      > the problem.
      >
      > Dave Patterson
      > odd_kins@...
      > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
      >
      > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
      > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
      > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
      > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
      > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
      > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
      > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
      > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
      > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
      > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
      > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
      > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
      > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
      > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
      > you can make some chips.
      >
      > Nelson Collar
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
      > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
      > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
      >
      >
      > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
      > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
      > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
      > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
      > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
      > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
      > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
      > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
      > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
      > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
      > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
      > until you find what works.
      >
      > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
      > a minimum.
      > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
      > act as vents in larger casting.
      >
      > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
      > people pouring at the same time.
      >
      > Dave Patterson
      > odd_kins@...
      > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
      >
      > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
      > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
      > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
      >
      >
      >
      > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
      > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
      > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
      > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
      > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
      > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
      > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
      > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
      > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
      > would be appreciated
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > /sm
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >

      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      ------------------------------------

      For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
      this list does not accept attachments. 

      Files area and list services are at:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

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      check out these two affiliated sites:
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Patterson
      Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It s an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it s a reservoir
      Message 2 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It's an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it's a reservoir used to trap any imputities in the metal before entering the runner. If casting a round plaque one to two ingates will work one to two on each side of the sprue. Same would be true for a rectangular plaque, the runner would be more squared off with the largest radius you can put into the corners where the runner changes direction. tapering the runner or stepping runner thickness between each ingate. A riser is not needed when casting a plaque under 3/8" overall thickness. Understand I'm not a professional molder, I'm a patternmaker. When it comes to designing a gating system you always call in the journeyman molder, he knows best. I am only repeating what has be learned from these molders during my time spent in the pattern shop.

        Dave Patterson
        odd_kins@...
        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

        --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:


        From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
        To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 4:47 PM



         



        Sage
        I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
        I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
        Good luck
        Nelson Collar 

        ________________________________
        From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
        To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


         
        Sage
        As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
        Nelson Collar

        ________________________________
        From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

        i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
        and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
        issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
        I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
        single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
        dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

        FWIW

        /sm

        On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Well
        > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
        > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
        > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
        > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
        > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
        > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
        > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
        > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
        > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
        > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
        > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
        > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
        > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
        > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
        > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
        > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
        > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
        > Good-Day
        >
        > Nelson Collar
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
        > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
        >
        > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
        > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
        > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
        > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
        > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
        > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
        > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
        > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
        > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
        > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
        > the problem.
        >
        > Dave Patterson
        > odd_kins@...
        > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
        >
        > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
        > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
        > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
        > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
        > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
        > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
        > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
        > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
        > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
        > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
        > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
        > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
        > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
        > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
        > you can make some chips.
        >
        > Nelson Collar
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
        > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
        > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
        >
        >
        > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
        > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
        > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
        > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
        > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
        > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
        > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
        > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
        > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
        > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
        > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
        > until you find what works.
        >
        > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
        > a minimum.
        > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
        > act as vents in larger casting.
        >
        > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
        > people pouring at the same time.
        >
        > Dave Patterson
        > odd_kins@...
        > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
        >
        > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
        > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
        > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
        >
        >
        >
        > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
        > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
        > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
        > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
        > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
        > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
        > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
        > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
        > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
        > would be appreciated
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        > /sm
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >

        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------

        For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
        this list does not accept attachments. 

        Files area and list services are at:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

        For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
        check out these two affiliated sites:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

        Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
        http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

        List Owner:
        owly@...

        Yahoo! Groups Links

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • James Bishop
        I find this PDF manual a pretty good read: http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf It applies to iron casting but I assume its
        Message 3 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          I find this PDF manual a pretty good read:

          http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf

          It applies to iron casting but I assume its generally applicable to
          aluminium too.

          One point they make is that runners should be straight, not curved.

          James.


          On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
          > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
          > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
          > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
          > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
          > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
          > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
          > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
          > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
          > would be appreciated
          >
          > Thanks
          >
          > /sm
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David Patterson
          If I remember right ratios are the same 1,4,4 for sprue, runners and ingates. But Iron is a lot more fluid when pouring so gating on aluminum and brass woud be
          Message 4 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            If I remember right ratios are the same 1,4,4 for sprue, runners and ingates. But Iron is a lot more fluid when pouring so gating on aluminum and brass woud be somewhat larger.

            Dave Patterson
            odd_kins@...
            http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

            --- On Fri, 1/4/13, James Bishop <bishopaj@...> wrote:


            From: James Bishop <bishopaj@...>
            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 7:25 PM



             



            I find this PDF manual a pretty good read:

            http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf

            It applies to iron casting but I assume its generally applicable to
            aluminium too.

            One point they make is that runners should be straight, not curved.

            James.

            On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
            > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
            > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
            > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
            > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
            > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
            > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
            > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
            > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
            > would be appreciated
            >
            > Thanks
            >
            > /sm
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Patterson
            Sage take a look at the link you posted, page 106 figure 112. Round or rectangular the gating will be similar. I prefer to make wood gating systems that can be
            Message 5 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Sage take a look at the link you posted, page 106 figure 112. Round or rectangular the gating will be similar. I prefer to make wood gating systems that can be used for multiple patterns of similar size and shape.
               
               
              Dave Patterson
              odd_kins@...
              http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

              --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:


              From: Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...>
              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 9:41 AM


              i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
              and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
              issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
              I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
              single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
              dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

              FWIW

              /sm


              On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > Well
              > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
              > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
              > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
              > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
              > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
              > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
              > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
              > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
              > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
              > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
              > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
              > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
              > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
              > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
              > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
              > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
              > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
              > Good-Day
              >
              > Nelson Collar
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
              >
              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
              > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
              > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
              > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
              > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
              > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
              > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
              > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
              > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
              > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
              > the problem.
              >
              > Dave Patterson
              > odd_kins@...
              > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
              >
              > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
              > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
              > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
              > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
              > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
              > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
              > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
              > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
              > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
              > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
              > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
              > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
              > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
              > you can make some chips.
              >
              > Nelson Collar
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
              >
              >
              > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
              > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
              > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
              > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
              > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
              > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
              > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
              > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
              > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
              > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
              > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
              > until you find what works.
              >
              > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
              > a minimum.
              > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
              > act as vents in larger casting.
              >
              > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
              > people pouring at the same time.
              >
              > Dave Patterson
              > odd_kins@...
              > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
              >
              > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
              > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
              >
              >
              >
              > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
              > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
              > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
              > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
              > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
              > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
              > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
              > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
              > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
              > would be appreciated
              >
              > Thanks
              >
              > /sm
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >

              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ------------------------------------

              For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
              this list does not accept attachments. 

              Files area and list services are at:
                   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

              For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
              check out these two affiliated sites:
                   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

              Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
              http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

              List Owner:
              owly@...

              Yahoo! Groups Links





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Steven DePhillips
              Excellent manual.  Much of it was over my head but the part about the bottle riser makes a lot of sense i am going to try it to solve a shrinkage problem i
              Message 6 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Excellent manual.  Much of it was over my head but the part about the bottle riser makes a lot of sense i am going to try it to solve a shrinkage problem i am having. 

                Thanks for sharing!
                Steve DePhillips


                ________________________________
                From: James Bishop <bishopaj@...>
                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:25 PM
                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                 
                I find this PDF manual a pretty good read:

                http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf

                It applies to iron casting but I assume its generally applicable to
                aluminium too.

                One point they make is that runners should be straight, not curved.

                James.

                On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                > would be appreciated
                >
                > Thanks
                >
                > /sm
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nelson Collar
                Dave  Yes it is from the Navy book. It was just for to show how the C runner and nothing else. I do not understand what all the negativity is all about. I
                Message 7 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dave 
                  Yes
                  it is from the Navy book. It was just for to show how the C runner
                  and nothing else. I do not understand what all the negativity is all
                  about. I started in the late 90's and I feel I can make anything I
                  want to. If I can help some one out that what it is about? If you
                  have a better way, tell him how you would do it. That is what Sage
                  needs so give it to him. Sage try and try again, you will find
                  something that will work, just do not get disgusted with the not
                  complete fills.

                  Dave if I ruffled your feathers, I'm sorry. Good day

                  Nelson Collar 
                     



                  ________________________________
                  From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                  To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:15 PM
                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                   
                  Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It's an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it's a reservoir used to trap any imputities in the metal before entering the runner. If casting a round plaque one to two ingates will work one to two on each side of the sprue. Same would be true for a rectangular plaque, the runner would be more squared off with the largest radius you can put into the corners where the runner changes direction. tapering the runner or stepping runner thickness between each ingate. A riser is not needed when casting a plaque under 3/8" overall thickness. Understand I'm not a professional molder, I'm a patternmaker. When it comes to designing a gating system you always call in the journeyman molder, he knows best. I am only repeating what has be learned from these molders during my time spent in the pattern shop.

                  Dave Patterson
                  odd_kins@...
                  http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                  --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                  From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                  To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 4:47 PM

                   

                  Sage
                  I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
                  I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                  Good luck
                  Nelson Collar 

                  ________________________________
                  From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                  To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                   
                  Sage
                  As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
                  Nelson Collar

                  ________________________________
                  From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                  To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                  i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                  and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                  issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                  I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                  single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                  dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                  FWIW

                  /sm

                  On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > Well
                  > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                  > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                  > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                  > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                  > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                  > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                  > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                  > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                  > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                  > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                  > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                  > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                  > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                  > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                  > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                  > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                  > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                  > Good-Day
                  >
                  > Nelson Collar
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                  > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                  >
                  > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                  > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                  > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                  > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                  > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                  > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                  > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                  > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                  > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                  > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                  > the problem.
                  >
                  > Dave Patterson
                  > odd_kins@...
                  > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                  >
                  > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                  > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                  > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                  > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                  > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                  > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                  > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                  > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                  > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                  > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                  > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                  > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                  > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                  > you can make some chips.
                  >
                  > Nelson Collar
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                  > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                  >
                  >
                  > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                  > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                  > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                  > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                  > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                  > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                  > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                  > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                  > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                  > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                  > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                  > until you find what works.
                  >
                  > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                  > a minimum.
                  > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                  > act as vents in larger casting.
                  >
                  > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                  > people pouring at the same time.
                  >
                  > Dave Patterson
                  > odd_kins@...
                  > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                  >
                  > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                  > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                  > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                  > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                  > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                  > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                  > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                  > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                  > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                  > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                  > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                  > would be appreciated
                  >
                  > Thanks
                  >
                  > /sm
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >

                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  ------------------------------------

                  For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                  this list does not accept attachments. 

                  Files area and list services are at:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

                  For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                  check out these two affiliated sites:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                  Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                  http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

                  List Owner:
                  owly@...

                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Nelson Collar
                  I do not see much difference with the two examples. Fig 112 Has two curves. Curves, I ve seen them used many times and will continue to use them. 
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I do not see much difference with the two examples. Fig 112 Has two curves. Curves, I've seen them used many times and will continue to use them. 


                    ________________________________
                    From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                    To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 11:13 PM
                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                     
                    Sage take a look at the link you posted, page 106 figure 112. Round or rectangular the gating will be similar. I prefer to make wood gating systems that can be used for multiple patterns of similar size and shape.
                     
                     
                    Dave Patterson
                    odd_kins@...
                    http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                    --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                    From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                    To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 9:41 AM

                    i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                    and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                    issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                    I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                    single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                    dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                    FWIW

                    /sm

                    On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > Well
                    > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                    > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                    > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                    > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                    > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                    > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                    > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                    > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                    > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                    > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                    > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                    > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                    > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                    > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                    > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                    > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                    > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                    > Good-Day
                    >
                    > Nelson Collar
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                    > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                    >
                    > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                    > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                    > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                    > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                    > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                    > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                    > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                    > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                    > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                    > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                    > the problem.
                    >
                    > Dave Patterson
                    > odd_kins@...
                    > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                    >
                    > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                    > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                    > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                    > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                    > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                    > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                    > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                    > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                    > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                    > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                    > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                    > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                    > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                    > you can make some chips.
                    >
                    > Nelson Collar
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                    > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                    >
                    >
                    > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                    > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                    > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                    > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                    > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                    > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                    > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                    > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                    > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                    > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                    > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                    > until you find what works.
                    >
                    > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                    > a minimum.
                    > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                    > act as vents in larger casting.
                    >
                    > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                    > people pouring at the same time.
                    >
                    > Dave Patterson
                    > odd_kins@...
                    > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                    >
                    > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                    > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                    > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                    > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                    > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                    > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                    > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                    > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                    > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                    > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                    > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                    > would be appreciated
                    >
                    > Thanks
                    >
                    > /sm
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >

                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    ------------------------------------

                    For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                    this list does not accept attachments. 

                    Files area and list services are at:
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                    For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                    check out these two affiliated sites:
                         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

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                    http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

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                  • Nelson Collar
                    2.15 has a real nice curved runner. There is no set rule how they run just that the metal flows and does not freeze. Nelson Collar
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      2.15 has a real nice curved runner. There is no set rule how they run just that the metal flows and does not freeze.
                      Nelson Collar


                      ________________________________
                      From: Steven DePhillips <stevendeph@...>
                      To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:15 AM
                      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                       
                      Excellent manual.  Much of it was over my head but the part about the bottle riser makes a lot of sense i am going to try it to solve a shrinkage problem i am having. 

                      Thanks for sharing!
                      Steve DePhillips

                      ________________________________
                      From: James Bishop bishopaj@...>
                      To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:25 PM
                      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                       
                      I find this PDF manual a pretty good read:

                      http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf

                      It applies to iron casting but I assume its generally applicable to
                      aluminium too.

                      One point they make is that runners should be straight, not curved.

                      James.

                      On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                      > **
                      >
                      >
                      > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                      > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                      > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                      > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                      > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                      > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                      > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                      > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                      > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                      > would be appreciated
                      >
                      > Thanks
                      >
                      > /sm
                      >
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Joseph Feldmann
                      Hey there, Folks-   I mfar less experienced than most of you, so take my comment with that in mind, but: I ve found that round-shaped runners create less
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hey there, Folks-
                          I'mfar less experienced than most of you, so take my comment with that in mind, but: I've found that round-shaped runners create less turbulence filling the mold than squared-off ones. Just my 2-cents-worth.

                        Yvan Wolvesbane
                        Pacifist ...with occasional lapses.


                        >________________________________
                        >From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                        >To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                        >Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 12:44 PM
                        >Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                        >

                        >2.15 has a real nice curved runner. There is no set rule how they run just that the metal flows and does not freeze.
                        >Nelson Collar
                        >
                        >________________________________

                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Nelson Collar
                        When looking at most video on u-tube, they cut round like runners. Yes I use round myself and have great results. Some days nothing wants work, I know I m that
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          When looking at most video on u-tube, they cut round like runners. Yes I use round myself and have great results. Some days nothing wants work, I know I'm that way.
                          Nelson Collar


                          ________________________________
                          From: Joseph Feldmann <yvanwolvesbane222@...>
                          To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 1:46 PM
                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                           
                          Hey there, Folks-
                            I'mfar less experienced than most of you, so take my comment with that in mind, but: I've found that round-shaped runners create less turbulence filling the mold than squared-off ones. Just my 2-cents-worth.

                          Yvan Wolvesbane
                          Pacifist ...with occasional lapses.

                          >________________________________
                          >From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                          >To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                          >Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 12:44 PM
                          >Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                          >

                          >2.15 has a real nice curved runner. There is no set rule how they run just that the metal flows and does not freeze.
                          >Nelson Collar
                          >
                          >________________________________

                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • David Patterson
                          Nelson no need to say sorry. Just pointing out where the picture came from. I thought is was somewhat funny that the picture you showed was the same as the one
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Nelson no need to say sorry. Just pointing out where the picture came from. I thought is was somewhat funny that the picture you showed was the same as the one I happen to look at the day before while scanning the the link. I did give a better example for casting plaques, that showed what I tried to explain below.  There are at least 3 things that can give you a bad casting, poorly made pattern, improperly maintained sand and improperly designed gating system.
                             
                            Some will start casting something and have problems, then guess at what the problem is. After a few castings they might have stumbled of something that works, without understanding what they did. The next casting that's similar they gate the same way and it doesn't work , so what happened? They don't know. I just point out the need to read, understand and try to apply what others have done, before you start casting. Does not have to be a college level study session, just a little research,on line or in books. If done this way your results will improve faster without so much trial and error. But I've always done this when starting a new endeavor.
                             
                            So have a great year and many good casting sessions,
                             
                            Dave Patterson
                            odd_kins@...
                            http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                            --- On Sat, 1/5/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:


                            From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                            Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 7:46 AM



                             



                            Dave 
                            Yes
                            it is from the Navy book. It was just for to show how the C runner
                            and nothing else. I do not understand what all the negativity is all
                            about. I started in the late 90's and I feel I can make anything I
                            want to. If I can help some one out that what it is about? If you
                            have a better way, tell him how you would do it. That is what Sage
                            needs so give it to him. Sage try and try again, you will find
                            something that will work, just do not get disgusted with the not
                            complete fills.

                            Dave if I ruffled your feathers, I'm sorry. Good day

                            Nelson Collar 
                               

                            ________________________________
                            From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:15 PM
                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                             
                            Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It's an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it's a reservoir used to trap any imputities in the metal before entering the runner. If casting a round plaque one to two ingates will work one to two on each side of the sprue. Same would be true for a rectangular plaque, the runner would be more squared off with the largest radius you can put into the corners where the runner changes direction. tapering the runner or stepping runner thickness between each ingate. A riser is not needed when casting a plaque under 3/8" overall thickness. Understand I'm not a professional molder, I'm a patternmaker. When it comes to designing a gating system you always call in the journeyman molder, he knows best. I am only repeating what has be learned from these molders during my time spent in the pattern shop.

                            Dave Patterson
                            odd_kins@...
                            http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                            --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                            From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                            Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 4:47 PM

                             

                            Sage
                            I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
                            I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                            Good luck
                            Nelson Collar 

                            ________________________________
                            From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                            To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                             
                            Sage
                            As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
                            Nelson Collar

                            ________________________________
                            From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                            i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                            and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                            issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                            I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                            single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                            dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                            FWIW

                            /sm

                            On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                            > **
                            >
                            >
                            > Well
                            > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                            > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                            > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                            > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                            > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                            > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                            > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                            > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                            > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                            > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                            > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                            > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                            > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                            > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                            > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                            > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                            > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                            > Good-Day
                            >
                            > Nelson Collar
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                            > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                            >
                            > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                            > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                            > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                            > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                            > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                            > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                            > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                            > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                            > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                            > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                            > the problem.
                            >
                            > Dave Patterson
                            > odd_kins@...
                            > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                            >
                            > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                            > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                            > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                            > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                            > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                            > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                            > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                            > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                            > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                            > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                            > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                            > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                            > you can make some chips.
                            >
                            > Nelson Collar
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                            > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            >
                            >
                            > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                            > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                            > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                            > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                            > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                            > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                            > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                            > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                            > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                            > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                            > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                            > until you find what works.
                            >
                            > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                            > a minimum.
                            > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                            > act as vents in larger casting.
                            >
                            > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                            > people pouring at the same time.
                            >
                            > Dave Patterson
                            > odd_kins@...
                            > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                            >
                            > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                            > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                            > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                            > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                            > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                            > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                            > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                            > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                            > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                            > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                            > would be appreciated
                            >
                            > Thanks
                            >
                            > /sm
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >

                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            ------------------------------------

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                            this list does not accept attachments. 

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                            check out these two affiliated sites:
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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Nelson Collar
                            Dave  I agree with you 100%. If a person is interested in learning anything you must study. My biggest point is that books are written to the way are done
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Dave 
                              I agree with you 100%. If a person is interested in learning anything you must study. My biggest point is that books are written to the way are done commercially. In the back yard shop all most anything is worth a try. There is many things that can substituted and still gives a good casting. I guess the thing that gets me the most is that everything has to be done as it says in The Casting Bible and nothing else will work or its wrong. There are many different rat traps and they all get the same result. It that way with casting too. 
                              Dave have a good day, I think we chew this dog to death. There is no more to be said.
                              Nelson Collar 


                              ________________________________
                              From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 7:08 PM
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                               
                              Nelson no need to say sorry. Just pointing out where the picture came from. I thought is was somewhat funny that the picture you showed was the same as the one I happen to look at the day before while scanning the the link. I did give a better example for casting plaques, that showed what I tried to explain below.  There are at least 3 things that can give you a bad casting, poorly made pattern, improperly maintained sand and improperly designed gating system.
                               
                              Some will start casting something and have problems, then guess at what the problem is. After a few castings they might have stumbled of something that works, without understanding what they did. The next casting that's similar they gate the same way and it doesn't work , so what happened? They don't know. I just point out the need to read, understand and try to apply what others have done, before you start casting. Does not have to be a college level study session, just a little research,on line or in books. If done this way your results will improve faster without so much trial and error. But I've always done this when starting a new endeavor.
                               
                              So have a great year and many good casting sessions,
                               
                              Dave Patterson
                              odd_kins@...
                              http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                              --- On Sat, 1/5/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                              From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                              To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                              Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 7:46 AM

                               

                              Dave 
                              Yes
                              it is from the Navy book. It was just for to show how the C runner
                              and nothing else. I do not understand what all the negativity is all
                              about. I started in the late 90's and I feel I can make anything I
                              want to. If I can help some one out that what it is about? If you
                              have a better way, tell him how you would do it. That is what Sage
                              needs so give it to him. Sage try and try again, you will find
                              something that will work, just do not get disgusted with the not
                              complete fills.

                              Dave if I ruffled your feathers, I'm sorry. Good day

                              Nelson Collar 
                                 

                              ________________________________
                              From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:15 PM
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                               
                              Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It's an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it's a reservoir used to trap any imputities in the metal before entering the runner. If casting a round plaque one to two ingates will work one to two on each side of the sprue. Same would be true for a rectangular plaque, the runner would be more squared off with the largest radius you can put into the corners where the runner changes direction. tapering the runner or stepping runner thickness between each ingate. A riser is not needed when casting a plaque under 3/8" overall thickness. Understand I'm not a professional molder, I'm a patternmaker. When it comes to designing a gating system you always call in the journeyman molder, he knows best. I am only repeating what has be learned from these molders during my time spent in the pattern shop.

                              Dave Patterson
                              odd_kins@...
                              http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                              --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                              From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                              To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                              Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 4:47 PM

                               

                              Sage
                              I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
                              I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                              Good luck
                              Nelson Collar 

                              ________________________________
                              From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                              To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                               
                              Sage
                              As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
                              Nelson Collar

                              ________________________________
                              From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                              i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                              and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                              issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                              I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                              single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                              dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                              FWIW

                              /sm

                              On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              > Well
                              > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                              > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                              > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                              > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                              > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                              > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                              > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                              > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                              > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                              > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                              > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                              > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                              > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                              > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                              > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                              > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                              > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                              > Good-Day
                              >
                              > Nelson Collar
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                              >
                              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                              > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                              > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                              > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                              > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                              > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                              > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                              > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                              > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                              > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                              > the problem.
                              >
                              > Dave Patterson
                              > odd_kins@...
                              > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                              >
                              > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                              > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                              > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                              > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                              > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                              > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                              > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                              > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                              > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                              > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                              > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                              > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                              > you can make some chips.
                              >
                              > Nelson Collar
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                              >
                              >
                              > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                              > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                              > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                              > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                              > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                              > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                              > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                              > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                              > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                              > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                              > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                              > until you find what works.
                              >
                              > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                              > a minimum.
                              > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                              > act as vents in larger casting.
                              >
                              > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                              > people pouring at the same time.
                              >
                              > Dave Patterson
                              > odd_kins@...
                              > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                              >
                              > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                              > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                              > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                              > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                              > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                              > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                              > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                              > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                              > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                              > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                              > would be appreciated
                              >
                              > Thanks
                              >
                              > /sm
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >

                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • phil
                              I have found that this book really tells you all you need to know, is written by a man whos carrer was in proffesional metal casting and foundry work. Needles
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jan 6, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I have found that this book really tells you all you need to know, is written by a man whos carrer was in proffesional metal casting and foundry work. Needles to say it contains no complex mathematics. We have been succesfully casting metal on this planet since the bronze age!;-)
                                The Complete Handbook of Sand Casting (Tab books) by C. W. Ammen (1 Jan 1982)
                                Phil

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Wonk
                                Amen - and very good books! I have watched Mr Ammen casting as a young lad when visiting my grandparents near Manitou Colorado. His knowledge on casting has
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jan 8, 2013
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                                  Amen - and very good books! I have watched Mr Ammen casting as a young lad when visiting my grandparents near Manitou Colorado. His knowledge on casting has inspired me through the years.

                                  Wonk

                                  --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "phil" wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I have found that this book really tells you all you need to know, is written by a man whos carrer was in proffesional metal casting and foundry work. Needles to say it contains no complex mathematics. We have been succesfully casting metal on this planet since the bronze age!;-)
                                  > The Complete Handbook of Sand Casting (Tab books) by C. W. Ammen (1 Jan 1982)
                                  > Phil
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Dennis
                                  Mr. Amen s books are a fun read. He has individual books on Aluminum, Brass and Cast Iron. Even if one is not interested in casting that metal, just reading
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jan 8, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Mr. Amen's books are a fun read. He has individual books on Aluminum, Brass
                                    and Cast Iron. Even if one is not interested in casting that metal, just
                                    reading the books is fun. His characterization of a 'bandy legged sand crab'
                                    as a prototype foundry man is great. Well worth checking used book stores
                                    for copies.

                                    Dennis Cranston

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hobbicast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                    Of Wonk
                                    Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 2:15 PM
                                    To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [hobbicast] Re: ingate / outgate

                                    Amen - and very good books! I have watched Mr Ammen casting as a young lad
                                    when visiting my grandparents near Manitou Colorado. His knowledge on
                                    casting has inspired me through the years.

                                    Wonk

                                    --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "phil" wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I have found that this book really tells you all you need to know, is
                                    > written by a man whos carrer was in proffesional metal casting and
                                    > foundry work. Needles to say it contains no complex mathematics. We
                                    > have been succesfully casting metal on this planet since the bronze
                                    > age!;-) The Complete Handbook of Sand Casting (Tab books) by C. W.
                                    > Ammen (1 Jan 1982) Phil
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >




                                    ------------------------------------

                                    For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues this list does not accept
                                    attachments.

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                                    For additional files and photos and off topic discussions check out these
                                    two affiliated sites:
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

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                                    http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

                                    List Owner:
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