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Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

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  • David Patterson
    Nelson, which way do you want it? First you say use KISS then you say nice site read and it will make you a PRO in no time. If you looked at the entire web
    Message 1 of 30 , Jan 3, 2013
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      Nelson, which way do you want it? First you say use KISS then you say nice site read and it will make you a PRO in no time. If you looked at the entire web site it was far more technical than I was. Even gave you the formulas for calculate gating, risers, location of chills and more. Nothing was said about make a casting and cut chips or KISS.

      Dave Patterson
      odd_kins@...
      http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

      --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:


      From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
      To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 1:28 PM



       



      Sage
      Thanks for that site. It has all the things to do to cast. If read and digested right anyone can be a PRO in no time at all. That is what it take to learn anything. Read,read and read some more. Then do something with what you learned. NO FEAR
      Happy,
      Healthy and Prosperous New Year
      Nelson Collar

      ________________________________
      From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
      To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 4:39 PM
      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

      Found this link with some diagrams if anyone else is interested... (little
      over half way down)

      http://www.hnsa.org/doc/foundry/part2.htm

      /sm

      On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

      > FWIW I'm looking to cast something like the attached picture.  Use the
      > center hole as a massive ingate and just drill it out perhaps?
      >
      > Thanks for the responses thus far
      >
      > /sm
      >
      >
      > On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, David Patterson odd_kins@...>wrote:
      >
      >> **
      >>
      >>
      >> You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
      >> Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
      >> in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
      >> of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
      >> equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
      >> the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
      >> is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
      >> casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
      >> the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
      >> foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
      >> runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
      >> until you find what works.
      >>
      >> The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
      >> a minimum.
      >> Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers
      >> will act as vents in larger casting.
      >>
      >> The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
      >> people pouring at the same time.
      >>
      >> Dave Patterson
      >> odd_kins@...
      >> http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
      >>
      >> --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
      >> Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
      >> To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
      >> Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
      >> now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
      >> ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
      >> 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
      >> ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
      >> quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
      >> about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
      >> needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
      >> will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
      >> would be appreciated
      >>
      >> Thanks
      >>
      >> /sm
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >> 
      >>
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      ------------------------------------

      For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
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      Files area and list services are at:
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      check out these two affiliated sites:
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nelson Collar
      Well I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue does not require
      Message 2 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
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        Well
        I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
        to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
        does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
        of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
        cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
        the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
        voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
        we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
        said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
        work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
        still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
        not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
        anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
        followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
        practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
        will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done. 
        Good-Day
        Nelson Collar  


        ________________________________
        From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


         

        I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct the problem.
         
        Dave Patterson
        odd_kins@...
        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

        --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

        From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
        To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM

         

         
        Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
        your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
        equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
        K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
        you can make some chips.

        Nelson Collar

        ________________________________
        From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

         
        You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity. Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error until you find what works.
         
        The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to a minimum.
        Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will act as vents in larger casting.
         
        The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2 people pouring at the same time.

        Dave Patterson
        odd_kins@...
        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

        --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

        From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
        Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM

         

        Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
        now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
        ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
        3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
        ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
        quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
        about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
        needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
        will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
        would be appreciated

        Thanks

        /sm

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sage McGirk
        i m not an amateur or an expert.. I ve done about 50 lost foam castings, and finally seeing the light with wood objects. I m really just having issues with
        Message 3 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
          and finally seeing the light with wood objects. I'm really just having
          issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
          I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
          single point from my research. I have no problem with trial and error but
          dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

          FWIW

          /sm


          On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > Well
          > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
          > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
          > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
          > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
          > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
          > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
          > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
          > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
          > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
          > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
          > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
          > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
          > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
          > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
          > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
          > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
          > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
          > Good-Day
          >
          > Nelson Collar
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
          > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
          >
          > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
          > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
          > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
          > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
          > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
          > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
          > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
          > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
          > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
          > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
          > the problem.
          >
          > Dave Patterson
          > odd_kins@...
          > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
          >
          > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
          > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
          > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
          > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
          > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
          > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
          > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
          > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
          > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
          > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
          > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
          > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
          > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
          > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
          > you can make some chips.
          >
          > Nelson Collar
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
          > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
          > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
          >
          >
          > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
          > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
          > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
          > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
          > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
          > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
          > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
          > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
          > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
          > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
          > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
          > until you find what works.
          >
          > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
          > a minimum.
          > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
          > act as vents in larger casting.
          >
          > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
          > people pouring at the same time.
          >
          > Dave Patterson
          > odd_kins@...
          > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
          >
          > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
          > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
          > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
          >
          >
          >
          > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
          > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
          > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
          > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
          > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
          > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
          > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
          > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
          > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
          > would be appreciated
          >
          > Thanks
          >
          > /sm
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nelson Collar
          I agree the web has too much info, reading technical books and get bogged down in doing everything like the professional would does it we will never get
          Message 4 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            I
            agree the web has too much info, reading technical books and get
            bogged down in doing everything like the professional would does it
            we will never get started.  
            Casting
            is not that difficult and does not require half the thing everyone
            says it needs. Fancy sands and fancy clays all the tools people
            design to do something that people are doing it as simple as a fire
            to melt bronze. No recipe just melt and pour. There is no need to buy
            the most expensive products to build the furnace. My furnace was made
            of cement, clay from a clay pit (red clay) and perlite. I have used
            it for years and was doing very well until I put my waste oil burner
            to it. Not saying it is through, I will use it until it starts to not
            hold the heat. Green sand can be made real simple also all this hoop
            blaw about it has to be this or that, well forget it. Try something
            and if it works go for it, if it does not refine what you tried until
            it works. My entire system cost me less than $50 and that was in
            hardware. I do not think the how to are as informative as they should
            be. There are substitutes that can be used and save a lot of money. I
            have read so many emails that some one could not find a special
            product in there area. And spent time to find and pay out the a** for
            it. I believe it can be done a lot more simplified than what is in
            print. That is all on this topic. Make a pattern and make something
            yo can not afford to pay the big bucks for.
            Nelson
            Collar

            ________________________________
            From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:17 PM
            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


             
            Nelson, which way do you want it? First you say use KISS then you say nice site read and it will make you a PRO in no time. If you looked at the entire web site it was far more technical than I was. Even gave you the formulas for calculate gating, risers, location of chills and more. Nothing was said about make a casting and cut chips or KISS.

            Dave Patterson
            odd_kins@...
            http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

            --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

            From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
            To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 1:28 PM

             

            Sage
            Thanks for that site. It has all the things to do to cast. If read and digested right anyone can be a PRO in no time at all. That is what it take to learn anything. Read,read and read some more. Then do something with what you learned. NO FEAR
            Happy,
            Healthy and Prosperous New Year
            Nelson Collar

            ________________________________
            From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 4:39 PM
            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

            Found this link with some diagrams if anyone else is interested... (little
            over half way down)

            http://www.hnsa.org/doc/foundry/part2.htm

            /sm

            On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

            > FWIW I'm looking to cast something like the attached picture.  Use the
            > center hole as a massive ingate and just drill it out perhaps?
            >
            > Thanks for the responses thus far
            >
            > /sm
            >
            >
            > On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, David Patterson odd_kins@...>wrote:
            >
            >> **
            >>
            >>
            >> You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
            >> Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
            >> in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
            >> of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
            >> equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
            >> the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
            >> is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
            >> casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
            >> the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
            >> foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
            >> runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
            >> until you find what works.
            >>
            >> The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
            >> a minimum.
            >> Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers
            >> will act as vents in larger casting.
            >>
            >> The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
            >> people pouring at the same time.
            >>
            >> Dave Patterson
            >> odd_kins@...
            >> http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
            >>
            >> --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
            >> Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
            >> To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
            >> Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
            >> now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
            >> ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
            >> 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
            >> ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
            >> quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
            >> about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
            >> needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
            >> will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
            >> would be appreciated
            >>
            >> Thanks
            >>
            >> /sm
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >> 
            >>
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ------------------------------------

            For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
            this list does not accept attachments. 

            Files area and list services are at:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

            For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
            check out these two affiliated sites:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

            Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
            http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

            List Owner:
            owly@...

            Yahoo! Groups Links

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Nelson Collar
            Sage As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to
            Message 5 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Sage
              As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
              Nelson Collar


              ________________________________
              From: Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...>
              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

              i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
              and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
              issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
              I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
              single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
              dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

              FWIW

              /sm


              On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > Well
              > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
              > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
              > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
              > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
              > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
              > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
              > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
              > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
              > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
              > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
              > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
              > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
              > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
              > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
              > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
              > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
              > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
              > Good-Day
              >
              > Nelson Collar
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
              >
              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
              > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
              > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
              > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
              > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
              > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
              > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
              > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
              > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
              > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
              > the problem.
              >
              > Dave Patterson
              > odd_kins@...
              > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
              >
              > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
              > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
              > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
              > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
              > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
              > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
              > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
              > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
              > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
              > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
              > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
              > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
              > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
              > you can make some chips.
              >
              > Nelson Collar
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
              >
              >
              > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
              > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
              > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
              > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
              > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
              > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
              > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
              > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
              > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
              > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
              > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
              > until you find what works.
              >
              > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
              > a minimum.
              > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
              > act as vents in larger casting.
              >
              > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
              > people pouring at the same time.
              >
              > Dave Patterson
              > odd_kins@...
              > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
              >
              > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
              > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
              >
              >
              >
              > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
              > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
              > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
              > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
              > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
              > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
              > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
              > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
              > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
              > would be appreciated
              >
              > Thanks
              >
              > /sm
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >

              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ------------------------------------

              For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
              this list does not accept attachments. 

              Files area and list services are at:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

              For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
              check out these two affiliated sites:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

              Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
              http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

              List Owner:
              owly@...

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nelson Collar
              Sage I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque.  I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you
              Message 6 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Sage
                I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
                I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                Good luck
                Nelson Collar 

                ________________________________
                From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                 
                Sage
                As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
                Nelson Collar

                ________________________________
                From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                FWIW

                /sm

                On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > Well
                > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                > Good-Day
                >
                > Nelson Collar
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                >
                > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                > the problem.
                >
                > Dave Patterson
                > odd_kins@...
                > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                >
                > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                >
                > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                > you can make some chips.
                >
                > Nelson Collar
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                >
                >
                > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                > until you find what works.
                >
                > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                > a minimum.
                > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                > act as vents in larger casting.
                >
                > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                > people pouring at the same time.
                >
                > Dave Patterson
                > odd_kins@...
                > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                >
                > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                >
                > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                >
                >
                >
                > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                > would be appreciated
                >
                > Thanks
                >
                > /sm
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                ------------------------------------

                For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                this list does not accept attachments. 

                Files area and list services are at:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

                For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                check out these two affiliated sites:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

                List Owner:
                owly@...

                Yahoo! Groups Links

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • David Patterson
                Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It s an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it s a reservoir
                Message 7 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It's an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it's a reservoir used to trap any imputities in the metal before entering the runner. If casting a round plaque one to two ingates will work one to two on each side of the sprue. Same would be true for a rectangular plaque, the runner would be more squared off with the largest radius you can put into the corners where the runner changes direction. tapering the runner or stepping runner thickness between each ingate. A riser is not needed when casting a plaque under 3/8" overall thickness. Understand I'm not a professional molder, I'm a patternmaker. When it comes to designing a gating system you always call in the journeyman molder, he knows best. I am only repeating what has be learned from these molders during my time spent in the pattern shop.

                  Dave Patterson
                  odd_kins@...
                  http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                  --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:


                  From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                  To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 4:47 PM



                   



                  Sage
                  I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
                  I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                  Good luck
                  Nelson Collar 

                  ________________________________
                  From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                  To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                   
                  Sage
                  As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
                  Nelson Collar

                  ________________________________
                  From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                  To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                  i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                  and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                  issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                  I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                  single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                  dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                  FWIW

                  /sm

                  On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > Well
                  > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                  > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                  > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                  > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                  > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                  > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                  > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                  > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                  > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                  > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                  > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                  > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                  > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                  > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                  > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                  > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                  > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                  > Good-Day
                  >
                  > Nelson Collar
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                  > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                  >
                  > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                  > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                  > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                  > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                  > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                  > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                  > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                  > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                  > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                  > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                  > the problem.
                  >
                  > Dave Patterson
                  > odd_kins@...
                  > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                  >
                  > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                  > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                  > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                  > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                  > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                  > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                  > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                  > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                  > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                  > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                  > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                  > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                  > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                  > you can make some chips.
                  >
                  > Nelson Collar
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                  > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                  >
                  >
                  > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                  > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                  > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                  > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                  > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                  > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                  > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                  > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                  > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                  > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                  > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                  > until you find what works.
                  >
                  > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                  > a minimum.
                  > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                  > act as vents in larger casting.
                  >
                  > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                  > people pouring at the same time.
                  >
                  > Dave Patterson
                  > odd_kins@...
                  > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                  >
                  > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                  > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                  > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                  > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                  > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                  > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                  > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                  > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                  > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                  > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                  > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                  > would be appreciated
                  >
                  > Thanks
                  >
                  > /sm
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >

                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  ------------------------------------

                  For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                  this list does not accept attachments. 

                  Files area and list services are at:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

                  For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                  check out these two affiliated sites:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                  Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                  http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

                  List Owner:
                  owly@...

                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • James Bishop
                  I find this PDF manual a pretty good read: http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf It applies to iron casting but I assume its
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I find this PDF manual a pretty good read:

                    http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf

                    It applies to iron casting but I assume its generally applicable to
                    aluminium too.

                    One point they make is that runners should be straight, not curved.

                    James.


                    On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                    > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                    > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                    > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                    > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                    > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                    > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                    > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                    > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                    > would be appreciated
                    >
                    > Thanks
                    >
                    > /sm
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • David Patterson
                    If I remember right ratios are the same 1,4,4 for sprue, runners and ingates. But Iron is a lot more fluid when pouring so gating on aluminum and brass woud be
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      If I remember right ratios are the same 1,4,4 for sprue, runners and ingates. But Iron is a lot more fluid when pouring so gating on aluminum and brass woud be somewhat larger.

                      Dave Patterson
                      odd_kins@...
                      http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                      --- On Fri, 1/4/13, James Bishop <bishopaj@...> wrote:


                      From: James Bishop <bishopaj@...>
                      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                      To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 7:25 PM



                       



                      I find this PDF manual a pretty good read:

                      http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf

                      It applies to iron casting but I assume its generally applicable to
                      aluminium too.

                      One point they make is that runners should be straight, not curved.

                      James.

                      On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                      > **
                      >
                      >
                      > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                      > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                      > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                      > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                      > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                      > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                      > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                      > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                      > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                      > would be appreciated
                      >
                      > Thanks
                      >
                      > /sm
                      >
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • David Patterson
                      Sage take a look at the link you posted, page 106 figure 112. Round or rectangular the gating will be similar. I prefer to make wood gating systems that can be
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Sage take a look at the link you posted, page 106 figure 112. Round or rectangular the gating will be similar. I prefer to make wood gating systems that can be used for multiple patterns of similar size and shape.
                         
                         
                        Dave Patterson
                        odd_kins@...
                        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                        --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:


                        From: Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...>
                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 9:41 AM


                        i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                        and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                        issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                        I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                        single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                        dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                        FWIW

                        /sm


                        On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        > Well
                        > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                        > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                        > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                        > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                        > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                        > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                        > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                        > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                        > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                        > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                        > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                        > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                        > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                        > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                        > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                        > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                        > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                        > Good-Day
                        >
                        > Nelson Collar
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                        > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                        >
                        > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                        > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                        > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                        > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                        > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                        > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                        > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                        > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                        > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                        > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                        > the problem.
                        >
                        > Dave Patterson
                        > odd_kins@...
                        > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                        >
                        > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                        > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                        > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                        > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                        > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                        > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                        > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                        > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                        > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                        > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                        > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                        > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                        > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                        > you can make some chips.
                        >
                        > Nelson Collar
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                        > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                        >
                        >
                        > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                        > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                        > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                        > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                        > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                        > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                        > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                        > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                        > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                        > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                        > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                        > until you find what works.
                        >
                        > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                        > a minimum.
                        > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                        > act as vents in larger casting.
                        >
                        > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                        > people pouring at the same time.
                        >
                        > Dave Patterson
                        > odd_kins@...
                        > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                        >
                        > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                        > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                        > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                        > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                        > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                        > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                        > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                        > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                        > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                        > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                        > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                        > would be appreciated
                        >
                        > Thanks
                        >
                        > /sm
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >

                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        ------------------------------------

                        For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                        this list does not accept attachments. 

                        Files area and list services are at:
                             http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

                        For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                        check out these two affiliated sites:
                             http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                             http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                        Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                        http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

                        List Owner:
                        owly@...

                        Yahoo! Groups Links





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Steven DePhillips
                        Excellent manual.  Much of it was over my head but the part about the bottle riser makes a lot of sense i am going to try it to solve a shrinkage problem i
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Excellent manual.  Much of it was over my head but the part about the bottle riser makes a lot of sense i am going to try it to solve a shrinkage problem i am having. 

                          Thanks for sharing!
                          Steve DePhillips


                          ________________________________
                          From: James Bishop <bishopaj@...>
                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:25 PM
                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                           
                          I find this PDF manual a pretty good read:

                          http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf

                          It applies to iron casting but I assume its generally applicable to
                          aluminium too.

                          One point they make is that runners should be straight, not curved.

                          James.

                          On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                          > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                          > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                          > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                          > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                          > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                          > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                          > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                          > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                          > would be appreciated
                          >
                          > Thanks
                          >
                          > /sm
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Nelson Collar
                          Dave  Yes it is from the Navy book. It was just for to show how the C runner and nothing else. I do not understand what all the negativity is all about. I
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dave 
                            Yes
                            it is from the Navy book. It was just for to show how the C runner
                            and nothing else. I do not understand what all the negativity is all
                            about. I started in the late 90's and I feel I can make anything I
                            want to. If I can help some one out that what it is about? If you
                            have a better way, tell him how you would do it. That is what Sage
                            needs so give it to him. Sage try and try again, you will find
                            something that will work, just do not get disgusted with the not
                            complete fills.

                            Dave if I ruffled your feathers, I'm sorry. Good day

                            Nelson Collar 
                               



                            ________________________________
                            From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:15 PM
                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                             
                            Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It's an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it's a reservoir used to trap any imputities in the metal before entering the runner. If casting a round plaque one to two ingates will work one to two on each side of the sprue. Same would be true for a rectangular plaque, the runner would be more squared off with the largest radius you can put into the corners where the runner changes direction. tapering the runner or stepping runner thickness between each ingate. A riser is not needed when casting a plaque under 3/8" overall thickness. Understand I'm not a professional molder, I'm a patternmaker. When it comes to designing a gating system you always call in the journeyman molder, he knows best. I am only repeating what has be learned from these molders during my time spent in the pattern shop.

                            Dave Patterson
                            odd_kins@...
                            http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                            --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                            From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                            Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 4:47 PM

                             

                            Sage
                            I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
                            I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                            Good luck
                            Nelson Collar 

                            ________________________________
                            From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                            To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                             
                            Sage
                            As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
                            Nelson Collar

                            ________________________________
                            From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                            i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                            and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                            issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                            I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                            single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                            dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                            FWIW

                            /sm

                            On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                            > **
                            >
                            >
                            > Well
                            > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                            > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                            > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                            > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                            > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                            > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                            > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                            > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                            > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                            > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                            > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                            > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                            > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                            > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                            > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                            > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                            > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                            > Good-Day
                            >
                            > Nelson Collar
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                            > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                            >
                            > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                            > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                            > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                            > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                            > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                            > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                            > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                            > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                            > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                            > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                            > the problem.
                            >
                            > Dave Patterson
                            > odd_kins@...
                            > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                            >
                            > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                            > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                            > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                            > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                            > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                            > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                            > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                            > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                            > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                            > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                            > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                            > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                            > you can make some chips.
                            >
                            > Nelson Collar
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                            > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            >
                            >
                            > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                            > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                            > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                            > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                            > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                            > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                            > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                            > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                            > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                            > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                            > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                            > until you find what works.
                            >
                            > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                            > a minimum.
                            > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                            > act as vents in larger casting.
                            >
                            > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                            > people pouring at the same time.
                            >
                            > Dave Patterson
                            > odd_kins@...
                            > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                            >
                            > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                            > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                            > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                            > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                            > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                            > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                            > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                            > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                            > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                            > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                            > would be appreciated
                            >
                            > Thanks
                            >
                            > /sm
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >

                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            ------------------------------------

                            For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                            this list does not accept attachments. 

                            Files area and list services are at:
                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

                            For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                            check out these two affiliated sites:
                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                            Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                            http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

                            List Owner:
                            owly@...

                            Yahoo! Groups Links

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                          • Nelson Collar
                            I do not see much difference with the two examples. Fig 112 Has two curves. Curves, I ve seen them used many times and will continue to use them. 
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I do not see much difference with the two examples. Fig 112 Has two curves. Curves, I've seen them used many times and will continue to use them. 


                              ________________________________
                              From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 11:13 PM
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                               
                              Sage take a look at the link you posted, page 106 figure 112. Round or rectangular the gating will be similar. I prefer to make wood gating systems that can be used for multiple patterns of similar size and shape.
                               
                               
                              Dave Patterson
                              odd_kins@...
                              http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                              --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                              From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 9:41 AM

                              i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                              and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                              issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                              I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                              single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                              dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                              FWIW

                              /sm

                              On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              > Well
                              > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                              > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                              > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                              > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                              > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                              > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                              > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                              > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                              > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                              > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                              > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                              > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                              > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                              > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                              > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                              > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                              > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                              > Good-Day
                              >
                              > Nelson Collar
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                              >
                              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                              > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                              > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                              > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                              > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                              > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                              > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                              > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                              > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                              > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                              > the problem.
                              >
                              > Dave Patterson
                              > odd_kins@...
                              > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                              >
                              > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                              > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                              > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                              > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                              > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                              > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                              > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                              > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                              > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                              > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                              > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                              > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                              > you can make some chips.
                              >
                              > Nelson Collar
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                              >
                              >
                              > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                              > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                              > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                              > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                              > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                              > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                              > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                              > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                              > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                              > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                              > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                              > until you find what works.
                              >
                              > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                              > a minimum.
                              > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                              > act as vents in larger casting.
                              >
                              > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                              > people pouring at the same time.
                              >
                              > Dave Patterson
                              > odd_kins@...
                              > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                              >
                              > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                              > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                              > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                              > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                              > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                              > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                              > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                              > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                              > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                              > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                              > would be appreciated
                              >
                              > Thanks
                              >
                              > /sm
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >

                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                            • Nelson Collar
                              2.15 has a real nice curved runner. There is no set rule how they run just that the metal flows and does not freeze. Nelson Collar
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                2.15 has a real nice curved runner. There is no set rule how they run just that the metal flows and does not freeze.
                                Nelson Collar


                                ________________________________
                                From: Steven DePhillips <stevendeph@...>
                                To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:15 AM
                                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                 
                                Excellent manual.  Much of it was over my head but the part about the bottle riser makes a lot of sense i am going to try it to solve a shrinkage problem i am having. 

                                Thanks for sharing!
                                Steve DePhillips

                                ________________________________
                                From: James Bishop bishopaj@...>
                                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:25 PM
                                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                 
                                I find this PDF manual a pretty good read:

                                http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf

                                It applies to iron casting but I assume its generally applicable to
                                aluminium too.

                                One point they make is that runners should be straight, not curved.

                                James.

                                On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                                > **
                                >
                                >
                                > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                > would be appreciated
                                >
                                > Thanks
                                >
                                > /sm
                                >
                                >

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Joseph Feldmann
                                Hey there, Folks-   I mfar less experienced than most of you, so take my comment with that in mind, but: I ve found that round-shaped runners create less
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hey there, Folks-
                                    I'mfar less experienced than most of you, so take my comment with that in mind, but: I've found that round-shaped runners create less turbulence filling the mold than squared-off ones. Just my 2-cents-worth.

                                  Yvan Wolvesbane
                                  Pacifist ...with occasional lapses.


                                  >________________________________
                                  >From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                                  >To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                  >Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 12:44 PM
                                  >Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                  >

                                  >2.15 has a real nice curved runner. There is no set rule how they run just that the metal flows and does not freeze.
                                  >Nelson Collar
                                  >
                                  >________________________________

                                  >
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Nelson Collar
                                  When looking at most video on u-tube, they cut round like runners. Yes I use round myself and have great results. Some days nothing wants work, I know I m that
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    When looking at most video on u-tube, they cut round like runners. Yes I use round myself and have great results. Some days nothing wants work, I know I'm that way.
                                    Nelson Collar


                                    ________________________________
                                    From: Joseph Feldmann <yvanwolvesbane222@...>
                                    To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 1:46 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                     
                                    Hey there, Folks-
                                      I'mfar less experienced than most of you, so take my comment with that in mind, but: I've found that round-shaped runners create less turbulence filling the mold than squared-off ones. Just my 2-cents-worth.

                                    Yvan Wolvesbane
                                    Pacifist ...with occasional lapses.

                                    >________________________________
                                    >From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                    >To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 12:44 PM
                                    >Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                    >

                                    >2.15 has a real nice curved runner. There is no set rule how they run just that the metal flows and does not freeze.
                                    >Nelson Collar
                                    >
                                    >________________________________

                                    >
                                    >

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • David Patterson
                                    Nelson no need to say sorry. Just pointing out where the picture came from. I thought is was somewhat funny that the picture you showed was the same as the one
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Nelson no need to say sorry. Just pointing out where the picture came from. I thought is was somewhat funny that the picture you showed was the same as the one I happen to look at the day before while scanning the the link. I did give a better example for casting plaques, that showed what I tried to explain below.  There are at least 3 things that can give you a bad casting, poorly made pattern, improperly maintained sand and improperly designed gating system.
                                       
                                      Some will start casting something and have problems, then guess at what the problem is. After a few castings they might have stumbled of something that works, without understanding what they did. The next casting that's similar they gate the same way and it doesn't work , so what happened? They don't know. I just point out the need to read, understand and try to apply what others have done, before you start casting. Does not have to be a college level study session, just a little research,on line or in books. If done this way your results will improve faster without so much trial and error. But I've always done this when starting a new endeavor.
                                       
                                      So have a great year and many good casting sessions,
                                       
                                      Dave Patterson
                                      odd_kins@...
                                      http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                      --- On Sat, 1/5/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:


                                      From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                      To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 7:46 AM



                                       



                                      Dave 
                                      Yes
                                      it is from the Navy book. It was just for to show how the C runner
                                      and nothing else. I do not understand what all the negativity is all
                                      about. I started in the late 90's and I feel I can make anything I
                                      want to. If I can help some one out that what it is about? If you
                                      have a better way, tell him how you would do it. That is what Sage
                                      needs so give it to him. Sage try and try again, you will find
                                      something that will work, just do not get disgusted with the not
                                      complete fills.

                                      Dave if I ruffled your feathers, I'm sorry. Good day

                                      Nelson Collar 
                                         

                                      ________________________________
                                      From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                      To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:15 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                       
                                      Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It's an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it's a reservoir used to trap any imputities in the metal before entering the runner. If casting a round plaque one to two ingates will work one to two on each side of the sprue. Same would be true for a rectangular plaque, the runner would be more squared off with the largest radius you can put into the corners where the runner changes direction. tapering the runner or stepping runner thickness between each ingate. A riser is not needed when casting a plaque under 3/8" overall thickness. Understand I'm not a professional molder, I'm a patternmaker. When it comes to designing a gating system you always call in the journeyman molder, he knows best. I am only repeating what has be learned from these molders during my time spent in the pattern shop.

                                      Dave Patterson
                                      odd_kins@...
                                      http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                      --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                      From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                      To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 4:47 PM

                                       

                                      Sage
                                      I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
                                      I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                                      Good luck
                                      Nelson Collar 

                                      ________________________________
                                      From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                      To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                       
                                      Sage
                                      As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
                                      Nelson Collar

                                      ________________________________
                                      From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                      To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                      i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                                      and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                                      issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                                      I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                                      single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                                      dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                                      FWIW

                                      /sm

                                      On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                      > **
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Well
                                      > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                                      > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                                      > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                                      > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                                      > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                                      > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                                      > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                                      > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                                      > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                                      > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                                      > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                                      > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                                      > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                                      > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                                      > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                                      > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                                      > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                                      > Good-Day
                                      >
                                      > Nelson Collar
                                      >
                                      > ________________________________
                                      > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                      > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                                      >
                                      > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                                      > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                                      > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                                      > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                                      > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                                      > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                                      > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                                      > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                                      > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                                      > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                                      > the problem.
                                      >
                                      > Dave Patterson
                                      > odd_kins@...
                                      > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                      >
                                      > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                      > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                      > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                                      > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                                      > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                                      > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                                      > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                                      > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                                      > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                                      > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                                      > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                                      > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                                      > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                                      > you can make some chips.
                                      >
                                      > Nelson Collar
                                      >
                                      > ________________________________
                                      > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                      > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                                      > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                                      > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                                      > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                                      > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                                      > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                                      > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                                      > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                                      > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                                      > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                                      > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                                      > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                                      > until you find what works.
                                      >
                                      > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                                      > a minimum.
                                      > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                                      > act as vents in larger casting.
                                      >
                                      > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                                      > people pouring at the same time.
                                      >
                                      > Dave Patterson
                                      > odd_kins@...
                                      > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                      >
                                      > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                      > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                      > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                      > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                      > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                      > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                      > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                      > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                      > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                      > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                      > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                      > would be appreciated
                                      >
                                      > Thanks
                                      >
                                      > /sm
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >

                                      >

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                    • Nelson Collar
                                      Dave  I agree with you 100%. If a person is interested in learning anything you must study. My biggest point is that books are written to the way are done
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
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                                        Dave 
                                        I agree with you 100%. If a person is interested in learning anything you must study. My biggest point is that books are written to the way are done commercially. In the back yard shop all most anything is worth a try. There is many things that can substituted and still gives a good casting. I guess the thing that gets me the most is that everything has to be done as it says in The Casting Bible and nothing else will work or its wrong. There are many different rat traps and they all get the same result. It that way with casting too. 
                                        Dave have a good day, I think we chew this dog to death. There is no more to be said.
                                        Nelson Collar 


                                        ________________________________
                                        From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                                        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 7:08 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                         
                                        Nelson no need to say sorry. Just pointing out where the picture came from. I thought is was somewhat funny that the picture you showed was the same as the one I happen to look at the day before while scanning the the link. I did give a better example for casting plaques, that showed what I tried to explain below.  There are at least 3 things that can give you a bad casting, poorly made pattern, improperly maintained sand and improperly designed gating system.
                                         
                                        Some will start casting something and have problems, then guess at what the problem is. After a few castings they might have stumbled of something that works, without understanding what they did. The next casting that's similar they gate the same way and it doesn't work , so what happened? They don't know. I just point out the need to read, understand and try to apply what others have done, before you start casting. Does not have to be a college level study session, just a little research,on line or in books. If done this way your results will improve faster without so much trial and error. But I've always done this when starting a new endeavor.
                                         
                                        So have a great year and many good casting sessions,
                                         
                                        Dave Patterson
                                        odd_kins@...
                                        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                        --- On Sat, 1/5/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                        From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                        To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 7:46 AM

                                         

                                        Dave 
                                        Yes
                                        it is from the Navy book. It was just for to show how the C runner
                                        and nothing else. I do not understand what all the negativity is all
                                        about. I started in the late 90's and I feel I can make anything I
                                        want to. If I can help some one out that what it is about? If you
                                        have a better way, tell him how you would do it. That is what Sage
                                        needs so give it to him. Sage try and try again, you will find
                                        something that will work, just do not get disgusted with the not
                                        complete fills.

                                        Dave if I ruffled your feathers, I'm sorry. Good day

                                        Nelson Collar 
                                           

                                        ________________________________
                                        From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:15 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                         
                                        Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It's an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it's a reservoir used to trap any imputities in the metal before entering the runner. If casting a round plaque one to two ingates will work one to two on each side of the sprue. Same would be true for a rectangular plaque, the runner would be more squared off with the largest radius you can put into the corners where the runner changes direction. tapering the runner or stepping runner thickness between each ingate. A riser is not needed when casting a plaque under 3/8" overall thickness. Understand I'm not a professional molder, I'm a patternmaker. When it comes to designing a gating system you always call in the journeyman molder, he knows best. I am only repeating what has be learned from these molders during my time spent in the pattern shop.

                                        Dave Patterson
                                        odd_kins@...
                                        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                        --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                        From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                        To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 4:47 PM

                                         

                                        Sage
                                        I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
                                        I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                                        Good luck
                                        Nelson Collar 

                                        ________________________________
                                        From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                        To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                         
                                        Sage
                                        As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
                                        Nelson Collar

                                        ________________________________
                                        From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                        i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                                        and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                                        issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                                        I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                                        single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                                        dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                                        FWIW

                                        /sm

                                        On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                        > **
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Well
                                        > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                                        > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                                        > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                                        > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                                        > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                                        > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                                        > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                                        > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                                        > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                                        > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                                        > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                                        > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                                        > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                                        > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                                        > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                                        > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                                        > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                                        > Good-Day
                                        >
                                        > Nelson Collar
                                        >
                                        > ________________________________
                                        > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                        > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                                        >
                                        > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                                        > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                                        > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                                        > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                                        > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                                        > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                                        > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                                        > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                                        > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                                        > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                                        > the problem.
                                        >
                                        > Dave Patterson
                                        > odd_kins@...
                                        > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                        >
                                        > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                        > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                        > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                                        > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                                        > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                                        > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                                        > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                                        > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                                        > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                                        > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                                        > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                                        > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                                        > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                                        > you can make some chips.
                                        >
                                        > Nelson Collar
                                        >
                                        > ________________________________
                                        > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                        > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                                        > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                                        > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                                        > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                                        > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                                        > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                                        > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                                        > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                                        > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                                        > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                                        > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                                        > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                                        > until you find what works.
                                        >
                                        > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                                        > a minimum.
                                        > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                                        > act as vents in larger casting.
                                        >
                                        > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                                        > people pouring at the same time.
                                        >
                                        > Dave Patterson
                                        > odd_kins@...
                                        > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                        >
                                        > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                        > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                        > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                        > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                        > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                        > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                        > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                        > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                        > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                        > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                        > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                        > would be appreciated
                                        >
                                        > Thanks
                                        >
                                        > /sm
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >

                                        >

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                        Files area and list services are at:
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                                        http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

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                                      • phil
                                        I have found that this book really tells you all you need to know, is written by a man whos carrer was in proffesional metal casting and foundry work. Needles
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Jan 6, 2013
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                                          I have found that this book really tells you all you need to know, is written by a man whos carrer was in proffesional metal casting and foundry work. Needles to say it contains no complex mathematics. We have been succesfully casting metal on this planet since the bronze age!;-)
                                          The Complete Handbook of Sand Casting (Tab books) by C. W. Ammen (1 Jan 1982)
                                          Phil

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Wonk
                                          Amen - and very good books! I have watched Mr Ammen casting as a young lad when visiting my grandparents near Manitou Colorado. His knowledge on casting has
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jan 8, 2013
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                                            Amen - and very good books! I have watched Mr Ammen casting as a young lad when visiting my grandparents near Manitou Colorado. His knowledge on casting has inspired me through the years.

                                            Wonk

                                            --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "phil" wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I have found that this book really tells you all you need to know, is written by a man whos carrer was in proffesional metal casting and foundry work. Needles to say it contains no complex mathematics. We have been succesfully casting metal on this planet since the bronze age!;-)
                                            > The Complete Handbook of Sand Casting (Tab books) by C. W. Ammen (1 Jan 1982)
                                            > Phil
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                          • Dennis
                                            Mr. Amen s books are a fun read. He has individual books on Aluminum, Brass and Cast Iron. Even if one is not interested in casting that metal, just reading
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Jan 8, 2013
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                                              Mr. Amen's books are a fun read. He has individual books on Aluminum, Brass
                                              and Cast Iron. Even if one is not interested in casting that metal, just
                                              reading the books is fun. His characterization of a 'bandy legged sand crab'
                                              as a prototype foundry man is great. Well worth checking used book stores
                                              for copies.

                                              Dennis Cranston

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hobbicast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                              Of Wonk
                                              Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 2:15 PM
                                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [hobbicast] Re: ingate / outgate

                                              Amen - and very good books! I have watched Mr Ammen casting as a young lad
                                              when visiting my grandparents near Manitou Colorado. His knowledge on
                                              casting has inspired me through the years.

                                              Wonk

                                              --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "phil" wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I have found that this book really tells you all you need to know, is
                                              > written by a man whos carrer was in proffesional metal casting and
                                              > foundry work. Needles to say it contains no complex mathematics. We
                                              > have been succesfully casting metal on this planet since the bronze
                                              > age!;-) The Complete Handbook of Sand Casting (Tab books) by C. W.
                                              > Ammen (1 Jan 1982) Phil
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >




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                                              For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues this list does not accept
                                              attachments.

                                              Files area and list services are at:
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

                                              For additional files and photos and off topic discussions check out these
                                              two affiliated sites:
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                                              Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                              http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

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