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ingate / outgate

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  • Sage McGirk
    Happy new year everyone! I ve been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months now, and I m looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the ingate/outgate
    Message 1 of 30 , Jan 2, 2013
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      Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
      now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
      ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
      3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
      ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
      quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
      about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
      needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
      will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
      would be appreciated

      Thanks

      /sm
    • danqualman@gmail.com
      Try putting you part on an incline. Feed from the bottom and vent the top. Put a pouring cup on the cope to give you more pressure. Pour hot and fast.
      Message 2 of 30 , Jan 2, 2013
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        Try putting you part on an incline. Feed from the bottom and vent the top. Put a pouring cup on the cope to give you more pressure. Pour hot and fast. Sometimes you will need multiple ingrates to get a part to fill completely. Think about a large runner with several feed points, taper the runner to keep the pressure up.
        Dan in Auburn

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Jan 2, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:

        > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
        > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
        > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
        > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
        > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
        > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
        > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
        > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
        > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
        > would be appreciated
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        > /sm
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David Patterson
        You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity. Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity in that
        Message 3 of 30 , Jan 2, 2013
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          You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity. Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error until you find what works.
           
          The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to a minimum.
          Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will act as vents in larger casting.
           
          The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2 people pouring at the same time.

          Dave Patterson
          odd_kins@...
          http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

          --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:


          From: Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...>
          Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM



           



          Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
          now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
          ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
          3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
          ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
          quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
          about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
          needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
          will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
          would be appreciated

          Thanks

          /sm







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Sage McGirk
          FWIW I m looking to cast something like the attached picture. Use the center hole as a massive ingate and just drill it out perhaps? Thanks for the responses
          Message 4 of 30 , Jan 2, 2013
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            FWIW I'm looking to cast something like the attached picture. Use the
            center hole as a massive ingate and just drill it out perhaps?

            Thanks for the responses thus far

            /sm

            On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, David Patterson <odd_kins@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
            > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
            > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
            > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
            > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
            > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
            > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
            > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
            > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
            > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
            > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
            > until you find what works.
            >
            > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
            > a minimum.
            > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
            > act as vents in larger casting.
            >
            > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
            > people pouring at the same time.
            >
            > Dave Patterson
            > odd_kins@...
            > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
            >
            > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:
            >
            > From: Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...>
            > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
            > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
            > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
            > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
            > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
            > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
            > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
            > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
            > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
            > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
            > would be appreciated
            >
            > Thanks
            >
            > /sm
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sage McGirk
            Found this link with some diagrams if anyone else is interested... (little over half way down) http://www.hnsa.org/doc/foundry/part2.htm /sm ... [Non-text
            Message 5 of 30 , Jan 2, 2013
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              Found this link with some diagrams if anyone else is interested... (little
              over half way down)

              http://www.hnsa.org/doc/foundry/part2.htm

              /sm


              On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:

              > FWIW I'm looking to cast something like the attached picture. Use the
              > center hole as a massive ingate and just drill it out perhaps?
              >
              > Thanks for the responses thus far
              >
              > /sm
              >
              >
              > On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, David Patterson <odd_kins@...>wrote:
              >
              >> **
              >>
              >>
              >> You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
              >> Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
              >> in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
              >> of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
              >> equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
              >> the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
              >> is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
              >> casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
              >> the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
              >> foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
              >> runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
              >> until you find what works.
              >>
              >> The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
              >> a minimum.
              >> Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers
              >> will act as vents in larger casting.
              >>
              >> The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
              >> people pouring at the same time.
              >>
              >> Dave Patterson
              >> odd_kins@...
              >> http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
              >>
              >> --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> From: Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...>
              >> Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
              >> To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
              >> Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
              >> now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
              >> ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
              >> 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
              >> ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
              >> quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
              >> about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
              >> needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
              >> will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
              >> would be appreciated
              >>
              >> Thanks
              >>
              >> /sm
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dave
              I would recommend everyone bookmark this entire link starting from the home page. thanks dave
              Message 6 of 30 , Jan 2, 2013
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                I would recommend everyone bookmark this entire link starting from the home page. thanks

                dave

                --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:
                >
                > Found this link with some diagrams if anyone else is interested... (little
                > over half way down)
                >
                > http://www.hnsa.org/doc/foundry/part2.htm
                >
                > /sm
                >
                >
                > On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:
                >
                > > FWIW I'm looking to cast something like the attached picture. Use the
                > > center hole as a massive ingate and just drill it out perhaps?
                > >
                > > Thanks for the responses thus far
                > >
                > > /sm
                > >
                > >
                > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, David Patterson <odd_kins@...>wrote:
                > >
                > >> **
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                > >> Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                > >> in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                > >> of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                > >> equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                > >> the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                > >> is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                > >> casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                > >> the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                > >> foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                > >> runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                > >> until you find what works.
                > >>
                > >> The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                > >> a minimum.
                > >> Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers
                > >> will act as vents in larger casting.
                > >>
                > >> The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                > >> people pouring at the same time.
                > >>
                > >> Dave Patterson
                > >> odd_kins@...
                > >> http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                > >>
                > >> --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:
                > >>
                > >> From: Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...>
                > >> Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                > >> To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                > >> Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                > >> now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                > >> ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                > >> 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                > >> ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                > >> quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                > >> about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                > >> needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                > >> will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                > >> would be appreciated
                > >>
                > >> Thanks
                > >>
                > >> /sm
                > >>
                > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Nelson Collar
                  Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing to
                Message 7 of 30 , Jan 3, 2013
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                  Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                  your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                  equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                  K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                  you can make some chips.

                  Nelson Collar


                  ________________________________
                  From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                  To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                   
                  You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity. Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error until you find what works.
                   
                  The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to a minimum.
                  Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will act as vents in larger casting.
                   
                  The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2 people pouring at the same time.

                  Dave Patterson
                  odd_kins@...
                  http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                  --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:

                  From: Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...>
                  Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                  To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM

                   

                  Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                  now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                  ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                  3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                  ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                  quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                  about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                  needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                  will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                  would be appreciated

                  Thanks

                  /sm

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Nelson Collar
                  Sage Thanks for that site. It has all the things to do to cast. If read and digested right anyone can be a PRO in no time at all. That is what it take to learn
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jan 3, 2013
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                    Sage
                    Thanks for that site. It has all the things to do to cast. If read and digested right anyone can be a PRO in no time at all. That is what it take to learn anything. Read,read and read some more. Then do something with what you learned. NO FEAR
                    Happy,
                    Healthy and Prosperous New Year
                    Nelson Collar


                    ________________________________
                    From: Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...>
                    To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 4:39 PM
                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                    Found this link with some diagrams if anyone else is interested... (little
                    over half way down)

                    http://www.hnsa.org/doc/foundry/part2.htm

                    /sm


                    On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:

                    > FWIW I'm looking to cast something like the attached picture.  Use the
                    > center hole as a massive ingate and just drill it out perhaps?
                    >
                    > Thanks for the responses thus far
                    >
                    > /sm
                    >
                    >
                    > On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, David Patterson <odd_kins@...>wrote:
                    >
                    >> **
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                    >> Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                    >> in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                    >> of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                    >> equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                    >> the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                    >> is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                    >> casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                    >> the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                    >> foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                    >> runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                    >> until you find what works.
                    >>
                    >> The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                    >> a minimum.
                    >> Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers
                    >> will act as vents in larger casting.
                    >>
                    >> The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                    >> people pouring at the same time.
                    >>
                    >> Dave Patterson
                    >> odd_kins@...
                    >> http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                    >>
                    >> --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >> From: Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...>
                    >> Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                    >> To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                    >> now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                    >> ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                    >> 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                    >> ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                    >> quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                    >> about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                    >> needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                    >> will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                    >> would be appreciated
                    >>
                    >> Thanks
                    >>
                    >> /sm
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >> 
                    >>
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                  • David Patterson
                    I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working casting and
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jan 3, 2013
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                      I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct the problem.
                       
                      Dave Patterson
                      odd_kins@...
                      http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                      --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:


                      From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                      To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM



                       



                       
                      Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                      your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                      equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                      K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                      you can make some chips.

                      Nelson Collar

                      ________________________________
                      From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                      To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                       
                      You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity. Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error until you find what works.
                       
                      The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to a minimum.
                      Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will act as vents in larger casting.
                       
                      The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2 people pouring at the same time.

                      Dave Patterson
                      odd_kins@...
                      http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                      --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                      From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                      Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                      To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM

                       

                      Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                      now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                      ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                      3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                      ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                      quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                      about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                      needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                      will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                      would be appreciated

                      Thanks

                      /sm

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • David Patterson
                      Nelson, which way do you want it? First you say use KISS then you say nice site read and it will make you a PRO in no time. If you looked at the entire web
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jan 3, 2013
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Nelson, which way do you want it? First you say use KISS then you say nice site read and it will make you a PRO in no time. If you looked at the entire web site it was far more technical than I was. Even gave you the formulas for calculate gating, risers, location of chills and more. Nothing was said about make a casting and cut chips or KISS.

                        Dave Patterson
                        odd_kins@...
                        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                        --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:


                        From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                        To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                        Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 1:28 PM



                         



                        Sage
                        Thanks for that site. It has all the things to do to cast. If read and digested right anyone can be a PRO in no time at all. That is what it take to learn anything. Read,read and read some more. Then do something with what you learned. NO FEAR
                        Happy,
                        Healthy and Prosperous New Year
                        Nelson Collar

                        ________________________________
                        From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 4:39 PM
                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                        Found this link with some diagrams if anyone else is interested... (little
                        over half way down)

                        http://www.hnsa.org/doc/foundry/part2.htm

                        /sm

                        On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                        > FWIW I'm looking to cast something like the attached picture.  Use the
                        > center hole as a massive ingate and just drill it out perhaps?
                        >
                        > Thanks for the responses thus far
                        >
                        > /sm
                        >
                        >
                        > On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, David Patterson odd_kins@...>wrote:
                        >
                        >> **
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                        >> Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                        >> in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                        >> of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                        >> equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                        >> the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                        >> is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                        >> casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                        >> the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                        >> foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                        >> runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                        >> until you find what works.
                        >>
                        >> The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                        >> a minimum.
                        >> Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers
                        >> will act as vents in larger casting.
                        >>
                        >> The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                        >> people pouring at the same time.
                        >>
                        >> Dave Patterson
                        >> odd_kins@...
                        >> http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                        >>
                        >> --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                        >> Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                        >> To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                        >> Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                        >> now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                        >> ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                        >> 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                        >> ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                        >> quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                        >> about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                        >> needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                        >> will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                        >> would be appreciated
                        >>
                        >> Thanks
                        >>
                        >> /sm
                        >>
                        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>
                        >> 
                        >>
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        ------------------------------------

                        For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                        this list does not accept attachments. 

                        Files area and list services are at:
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                        For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                        check out these two affiliated sites:
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

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                        http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Nelson Collar
                        Well I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue does not require
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
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                        • 0 Attachment
                          Well
                          I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                          to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                          does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                          of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                          cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                          the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                          voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                          we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                          said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                          work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                          still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                          not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                          anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                          followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                          practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                          will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done. 
                          Good-Day
                          Nelson Collar  


                          ________________________________
                          From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                           

                          I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct the problem.
                           
                          Dave Patterson
                          odd_kins@...
                          http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                          --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                          From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                          To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                          Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM

                           

                           
                          Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                          your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                          equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                          K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                          you can make some chips.

                          Nelson Collar

                          ________________________________
                          From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                           
                          You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity. Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error until you find what works.
                           
                          The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to a minimum.
                          Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will act as vents in larger casting.
                           
                          The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2 people pouring at the same time.

                          Dave Patterson
                          odd_kins@...
                          http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                          --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                          From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                          Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM

                           

                          Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                          now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                          ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                          3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                          ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                          quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                          about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                          needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                          will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                          would be appreciated

                          Thanks

                          /sm

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Sage McGirk
                          i m not an amateur or an expert.. I ve done about 50 lost foam castings, and finally seeing the light with wood objects. I m really just having issues with
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
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                            i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                            and finally seeing the light with wood objects. I'm really just having
                            issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                            I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                            single point from my research. I have no problem with trial and error but
                            dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                            FWIW

                            /sm


                            On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:

                            > **
                            >
                            >
                            > Well
                            > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                            > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                            > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                            > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                            > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                            > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                            > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                            > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                            > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                            > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                            > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                            > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                            > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                            > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                            > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                            > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                            > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                            > Good-Day
                            >
                            > Nelson Collar
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                            > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                            >
                            > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                            > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                            > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                            > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                            > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                            > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                            > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                            > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                            > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                            > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                            > the problem.
                            >
                            > Dave Patterson
                            > odd_kins@...
                            > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                            >
                            > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                            > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                            > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                            > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                            > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                            > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                            > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                            > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                            > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                            > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                            > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                            > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                            > you can make some chips.
                            >
                            > Nelson Collar
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                            > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            >
                            >
                            > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                            > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                            > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                            > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                            > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                            > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                            > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                            > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                            > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                            > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                            > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                            > until you find what works.
                            >
                            > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                            > a minimum.
                            > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                            > act as vents in larger casting.
                            >
                            > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                            > people pouring at the same time.
                            >
                            > Dave Patterson
                            > odd_kins@...
                            > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                            >
                            > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                            > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                            > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                            > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                            > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                            > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                            > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                            > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                            > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                            > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                            > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                            > would be appreciated
                            >
                            > Thanks
                            >
                            > /sm
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Nelson Collar
                            I agree the web has too much info, reading technical books and get bogged down in doing everything like the professional would does it we will never get
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I
                              agree the web has too much info, reading technical books and get
                              bogged down in doing everything like the professional would does it
                              we will never get started.  
                              Casting
                              is not that difficult and does not require half the thing everyone
                              says it needs. Fancy sands and fancy clays all the tools people
                              design to do something that people are doing it as simple as a fire
                              to melt bronze. No recipe just melt and pour. There is no need to buy
                              the most expensive products to build the furnace. My furnace was made
                              of cement, clay from a clay pit (red clay) and perlite. I have used
                              it for years and was doing very well until I put my waste oil burner
                              to it. Not saying it is through, I will use it until it starts to not
                              hold the heat. Green sand can be made real simple also all this hoop
                              blaw about it has to be this or that, well forget it. Try something
                              and if it works go for it, if it does not refine what you tried until
                              it works. My entire system cost me less than $50 and that was in
                              hardware. I do not think the how to are as informative as they should
                              be. There are substitutes that can be used and save a lot of money. I
                              have read so many emails that some one could not find a special
                              product in there area. And spent time to find and pay out the a** for
                              it. I believe it can be done a lot more simplified than what is in
                              print. That is all on this topic. Make a pattern and make something
                              yo can not afford to pay the big bucks for.
                              Nelson
                              Collar

                              ________________________________
                              From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:17 PM
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                               
                              Nelson, which way do you want it? First you say use KISS then you say nice site read and it will make you a PRO in no time. If you looked at the entire web site it was far more technical than I was. Even gave you the formulas for calculate gating, risers, location of chills and more. Nothing was said about make a casting and cut chips or KISS.

                              Dave Patterson
                              odd_kins@...
                              http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                              --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                              From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                              To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                              Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 1:28 PM

                               

                              Sage
                              Thanks for that site. It has all the things to do to cast. If read and digested right anyone can be a PRO in no time at all. That is what it take to learn anything. Read,read and read some more. Then do something with what you learned. NO FEAR
                              Happy,
                              Healthy and Prosperous New Year
                              Nelson Collar

                              ________________________________
                              From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 4:39 PM
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                              Found this link with some diagrams if anyone else is interested... (little
                              over half way down)

                              http://www.hnsa.org/doc/foundry/part2.htm

                              /sm

                              On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                              > FWIW I'm looking to cast something like the attached picture.  Use the
                              > center hole as a massive ingate and just drill it out perhaps?
                              >
                              > Thanks for the responses thus far
                              >
                              > /sm
                              >
                              >
                              > On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, David Patterson odd_kins@...>wrote:
                              >
                              >> **
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                              >> Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                              >> in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                              >> of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                              >> equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                              >> the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                              >> is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                              >> casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                              >> the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                              >> foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                              >> runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                              >> until you find what works.
                              >>
                              >> The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                              >> a minimum.
                              >> Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers
                              >> will act as vents in larger casting.
                              >>
                              >> The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                              >> people pouring at the same time.
                              >>
                              >> Dave Patterson
                              >> odd_kins@...
                              >> http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                              >>
                              >> --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >> From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                              >> Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                              >> To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              >> Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                              >> now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                              >> ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                              >> 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                              >> ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                              >> quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                              >> about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                              >> needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                              >> will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                              >> would be appreciated
                              >>
                              >> Thanks
                              >>
                              >> /sm
                              >>
                              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>
                              >> 
                              >>
                              >
                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              ------------------------------------

                              For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                              this list does not accept attachments. 

                              Files area and list services are at:
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

                              For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                              check out these two affiliated sites:
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                              Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                              http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

                              List Owner:
                              owly@...

                              Yahoo! Groups Links

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Nelson Collar
                              Sage As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
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                                Sage
                                As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
                                Nelson Collar


                                ________________________________
                                From: Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...>
                                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
                                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                                and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                                issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                                I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                                single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                                dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                                FWIW

                                /sm


                                On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                > **
                                >
                                >
                                > Well
                                > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                                > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                                > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                                > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                                > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                                > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                                > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                                > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                                > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                                > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                                > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                                > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                                > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                                > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                                > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                                > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                                > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                                > Good-Day
                                >
                                > Nelson Collar
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                                >
                                > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                                > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                                > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                                > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                                > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                                > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                                > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                                > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                                > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                                > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                                > the problem.
                                >
                                > Dave Patterson
                                > odd_kins@...
                                > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                >
                                > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                                > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                                > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                                > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                                > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                                > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                                > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                                > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                                > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                                > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                                > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                                > you can make some chips.
                                >
                                > Nelson Collar
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                >
                                >
                                > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                                > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                                > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                                > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                                > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                                > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                                > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                                > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                                > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                                > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                                > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                                > until you find what works.
                                >
                                > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                                > a minimum.
                                > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                                > act as vents in larger casting.
                                >
                                > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                                > people pouring at the same time.
                                >
                                > Dave Patterson
                                > odd_kins@...
                                > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                >
                                > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                > would be appreciated
                                >
                                > Thanks
                                >
                                > /sm
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >

                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                ------------------------------------

                                For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                this list does not accept attachments. 

                                Files area and list services are at:
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                                check out these two affiliated sites:
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Nelson Collar
                                Sage I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque.  I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
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                                  Sage
                                  I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
                                  I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                                  Good luck
                                  Nelson Collar 

                                  ________________________________
                                  From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                                  To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                   
                                  Sage
                                  As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
                                  Nelson Collar

                                  ________________________________
                                  From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                  To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                  i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                                  and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                                  issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                                  I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                                  single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                                  dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                                  FWIW

                                  /sm

                                  On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                  > **
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Well
                                  > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                                  > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                                  > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                                  > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                                  > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                                  > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                                  > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                                  > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                                  > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                                  > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                                  > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                                  > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                                  > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                                  > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                                  > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                                  > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                                  > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                                  > Good-Day
                                  >
                                  > Nelson Collar
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                  > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                                  >
                                  > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                                  > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                                  > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                                  > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                                  > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                                  > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                                  > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                                  > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                                  > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                                  > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                                  > the problem.
                                  >
                                  > Dave Patterson
                                  > odd_kins@...
                                  > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                  >
                                  > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                  > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                  > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                                  > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                                  > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                                  > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                                  > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                                  > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                                  > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                                  > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                                  > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                                  > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                                  > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                                  > you can make some chips.
                                  >
                                  > Nelson Collar
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                  > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                                  > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                                  > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                                  > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                                  > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                                  > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                                  > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                                  > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                                  > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                                  > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                                  > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                                  > until you find what works.
                                  >
                                  > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                                  > a minimum.
                                  > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                                  > act as vents in larger casting.
                                  >
                                  > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                                  > people pouring at the same time.
                                  >
                                  > Dave Patterson
                                  > odd_kins@...
                                  > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                  >
                                  > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                  > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                  > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                  > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                  > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                  > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                  > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                  > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                  > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                  > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                  > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                  > would be appreciated
                                  >
                                  > Thanks
                                  >
                                  > /sm
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >

                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  ------------------------------------

                                  For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                  this list does not accept attachments. 

                                  Files area and list services are at:
                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

                                  For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                  check out these two affiliated sites:
                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                                  Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                  http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

                                  List Owner:
                                  owly@...

                                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • David Patterson
                                  Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It s an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it s a reservoir
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
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                                    Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It's an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it's a reservoir used to trap any imputities in the metal before entering the runner. If casting a round plaque one to two ingates will work one to two on each side of the sprue. Same would be true for a rectangular plaque, the runner would be more squared off with the largest radius you can put into the corners where the runner changes direction. tapering the runner or stepping runner thickness between each ingate. A riser is not needed when casting a plaque under 3/8" overall thickness. Understand I'm not a professional molder, I'm a patternmaker. When it comes to designing a gating system you always call in the journeyman molder, he knows best. I am only repeating what has be learned from these molders during my time spent in the pattern shop.

                                    Dave Patterson
                                    odd_kins@...
                                    http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                    --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:


                                    From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                    To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 4:47 PM



                                     



                                    Sage
                                    I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
                                    I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                                    Good luck
                                    Nelson Collar 

                                    ________________________________
                                    From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                    To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                     
                                    Sage
                                    As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
                                    Nelson Collar

                                    ________________________________
                                    From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                    To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                    i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                                    and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                                    issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                                    I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                                    single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                                    dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                                    FWIW

                                    /sm

                                    On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                    > **
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Well
                                    > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                                    > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                                    > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                                    > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                                    > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                                    > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                                    > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                                    > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                                    > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                                    > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                                    > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                                    > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                                    > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                                    > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                                    > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                                    > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                                    > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                                    > Good-Day
                                    >
                                    > Nelson Collar
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                    > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                                    >
                                    > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                                    > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                                    > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                                    > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                                    > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                                    > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                                    > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                                    > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                                    > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                                    > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                                    > the problem.
                                    >
                                    > Dave Patterson
                                    > odd_kins@...
                                    > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                    >
                                    > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                    > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                    > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                                    > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                                    > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                                    > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                                    > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                                    > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                                    > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                                    > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                                    > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                                    > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                                    > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                                    > you can make some chips.
                                    >
                                    > Nelson Collar
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                    > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                                    > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                                    > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                                    > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                                    > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                                    > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                                    > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                                    > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                                    > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                                    > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                                    > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                                    > until you find what works.
                                    >
                                    > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                                    > a minimum.
                                    > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                                    > act as vents in larger casting.
                                    >
                                    > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                                    > people pouring at the same time.
                                    >
                                    > Dave Patterson
                                    > odd_kins@...
                                    > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                    >
                                    > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                    > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                    > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                    > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                    > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                    > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                    > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                    > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                    > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                    > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                    > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                    > would be appreciated
                                    >
                                    > Thanks
                                    >
                                    > /sm
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >

                                    >

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                    this list does not accept attachments. 

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                                    check out these two affiliated sites:
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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • James Bishop
                                    I find this PDF manual a pretty good read: http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf It applies to iron casting but I assume its
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
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                                      I find this PDF manual a pretty good read:

                                      http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf

                                      It applies to iron casting but I assume its generally applicable to
                                      aluminium too.

                                      One point they make is that runners should be straight, not curved.

                                      James.


                                      On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:

                                      > **
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                      > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                      > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                      > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                      > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                      > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                      > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                      > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                      > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                      > would be appreciated
                                      >
                                      > Thanks
                                      >
                                      > /sm
                                      >
                                      >


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • David Patterson
                                      If I remember right ratios are the same 1,4,4 for sprue, runners and ingates. But Iron is a lot more fluid when pouring so gating on aluminum and brass woud be
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
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                                        If I remember right ratios are the same 1,4,4 for sprue, runners and ingates. But Iron is a lot more fluid when pouring so gating on aluminum and brass woud be somewhat larger.

                                        Dave Patterson
                                        odd_kins@...
                                        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                        --- On Fri, 1/4/13, James Bishop <bishopaj@...> wrote:


                                        From: James Bishop <bishopaj@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 7:25 PM



                                         



                                        I find this PDF manual a pretty good read:

                                        http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf

                                        It applies to iron casting but I assume its generally applicable to
                                        aluminium too.

                                        One point they make is that runners should be straight, not curved.

                                        James.

                                        On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                                        > **
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                        > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                        > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                        > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                        > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                        > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                        > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                        > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                        > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                        > would be appreciated
                                        >
                                        > Thanks
                                        >
                                        > /sm
                                        >
                                        >

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • David Patterson
                                        Sage take a look at the link you posted, page 106 figure 112. Round or rectangular the gating will be similar. I prefer to make wood gating systems that can be
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Jan 4, 2013
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                                          Sage take a look at the link you posted, page 106 figure 112. Round or rectangular the gating will be similar. I prefer to make wood gating systems that can be used for multiple patterns of similar size and shape.
                                           
                                           
                                          Dave Patterson
                                          odd_kins@...
                                          http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                          --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...> wrote:


                                          From: Sage McGirk <freeflysage@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 9:41 AM


                                          i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                                          and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                                          issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                                          I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                                          single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                                          dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                                          FWIW

                                          /sm


                                          On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                          > **
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Well
                                          > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                                          > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                                          > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                                          > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                                          > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                                          > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                                          > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                                          > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                                          > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                                          > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                                          > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                                          > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                                          > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                                          > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                                          > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                                          > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                                          > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                                          > Good-Day
                                          >
                                          > Nelson Collar
                                          >
                                          > ________________________________
                                          > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                          > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                                          >
                                          > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                                          > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                                          > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                                          > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                                          > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                                          > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                                          > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                                          > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                                          > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                                          > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                                          > the problem.
                                          >
                                          > Dave Patterson
                                          > odd_kins@...
                                          > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                          >
                                          > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                          > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                          > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                                          > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                                          > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                                          > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                                          > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                                          > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                                          > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                                          > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                                          > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                                          > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                                          > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                                          > you can make some chips.
                                          >
                                          > Nelson Collar
                                          >
                                          > ________________________________
                                          > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                          > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                                          > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                                          > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                                          > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                                          > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                                          > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                                          > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                                          > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                                          > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                                          > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                                          > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                                          > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                                          > until you find what works.
                                          >
                                          > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                                          > a minimum.
                                          > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                                          > act as vents in larger casting.
                                          >
                                          > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                                          > people pouring at the same time.
                                          >
                                          > Dave Patterson
                                          > odd_kins@...
                                          > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                          >
                                          > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                          > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                          > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                          > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                          > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                          > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                          > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                          > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                          > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                          > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                          > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                          > would be appreciated
                                          >
                                          > Thanks
                                          >
                                          > /sm
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >

                                          >


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                          ------------------------------------

                                          For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                          this list does not accept attachments. 

                                          Files area and list services are at:
                                               http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

                                          For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                          check out these two affiliated sites:
                                               http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                               http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                                          Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                          http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

                                          List Owner:
                                          owly@...

                                          Yahoo! Groups Links





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Steven DePhillips
                                          Excellent manual.  Much of it was over my head but the part about the bottle riser makes a lot of sense i am going to try it to solve a shrinkage problem i
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
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                                            Excellent manual.  Much of it was over my head but the part about the bottle riser makes a lot of sense i am going to try it to solve a shrinkage problem i am having. 

                                            Thanks for sharing!
                                            Steve DePhillips


                                            ________________________________
                                            From: James Bishop <bishopaj@...>
                                            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:25 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                             
                                            I find this PDF manual a pretty good read:

                                            http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf

                                            It applies to iron casting but I assume its generally applicable to
                                            aluminium too.

                                            One point they make is that runners should be straight, not curved.

                                            James.

                                            On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                                            > **
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                            > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                            > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                            > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                            > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                            > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                            > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                            > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                            > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                            > would be appreciated
                                            >
                                            > Thanks
                                            >
                                            > /sm
                                            >
                                            >

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Nelson Collar
                                            Dave  Yes it is from the Navy book. It was just for to show how the C runner and nothing else. I do not understand what all the negativity is all about. I
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
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                                              Dave 
                                              Yes
                                              it is from the Navy book. It was just for to show how the C runner
                                              and nothing else. I do not understand what all the negativity is all
                                              about. I started in the late 90's and I feel I can make anything I
                                              want to. If I can help some one out that what it is about? If you
                                              have a better way, tell him how you would do it. That is what Sage
                                              needs so give it to him. Sage try and try again, you will find
                                              something that will work, just do not get disgusted with the not
                                              complete fills.

                                              Dave if I ruffled your feathers, I'm sorry. Good day

                                              Nelson Collar 
                                                 



                                              ________________________________
                                              From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:15 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                               
                                              Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It's an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it's a reservoir used to trap any imputities in the metal before entering the runner. If casting a round plaque one to two ingates will work one to two on each side of the sprue. Same would be true for a rectangular plaque, the runner would be more squared off with the largest radius you can put into the corners where the runner changes direction. tapering the runner or stepping runner thickness between each ingate. A riser is not needed when casting a plaque under 3/8" overall thickness. Understand I'm not a professional molder, I'm a patternmaker. When it comes to designing a gating system you always call in the journeyman molder, he knows best. I am only repeating what has be learned from these molders during my time spent in the pattern shop.

                                              Dave Patterson
                                              odd_kins@...
                                              http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                              --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                              From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                              To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 4:47 PM

                                               

                                              Sage
                                              I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
                                              I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                                              Good luck
                                              Nelson Collar 

                                              ________________________________
                                              From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                              To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                               
                                              Sage
                                              As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
                                              Nelson Collar

                                              ________________________________
                                              From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                              i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                                              and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                                              issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                                              I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                                              single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                                              dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                                              FWIW

                                              /sm

                                              On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                              > **
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Well
                                              > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                                              > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                                              > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                                              > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                                              > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                                              > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                                              > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                                              > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                                              > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                                              > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                                              > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                                              > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                                              > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                                              > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                                              > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                                              > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                                              > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                                              > Good-Day
                                              >
                                              > Nelson Collar
                                              >
                                              > ________________________________
                                              > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                                              >
                                              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                                              > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                                              > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                                              > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                                              > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                                              > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                                              > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                                              > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                                              > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                                              > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                                              > the problem.
                                              >
                                              > Dave Patterson
                                              > odd_kins@...
                                              > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                              >
                                              > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                              > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                                              > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                                              > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                                              > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                                              > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                                              > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                                              > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                                              > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                                              > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                                              > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                                              > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                                              > you can make some chips.
                                              >
                                              > Nelson Collar
                                              >
                                              > ________________________________
                                              > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                                              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                                              > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                                              > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                                              > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                                              > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                                              > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                                              > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                                              > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                                              > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                                              > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                                              > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                                              > until you find what works.
                                              >
                                              > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                                              > a minimum.
                                              > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                                              > act as vents in larger casting.
                                              >
                                              > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                                              > people pouring at the same time.
                                              >
                                              > Dave Patterson
                                              > odd_kins@...
                                              > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                              >
                                              > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                              > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                              > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                              > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                              > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                              > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                              > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                              > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                              > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                              > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                              > would be appreciated
                                              >
                                              > Thanks
                                              >
                                              > /sm
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >

                                              >

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                              ------------------------------------

                                              For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                              this list does not accept attachments. 

                                              Files area and list services are at:
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                                              For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                              check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                                              Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                              http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

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                                              Yahoo! Groups Links

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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Nelson Collar
                                              I do not see much difference with the two examples. Fig 112 Has two curves. Curves, I ve seen them used many times and will continue to use them. 
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
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                                                I do not see much difference with the two examples. Fig 112 Has two curves. Curves, I've seen them used many times and will continue to use them. 


                                                ________________________________
                                                From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                                                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 11:13 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                                 
                                                Sage take a look at the link you posted, page 106 figure 112. Round or rectangular the gating will be similar. I prefer to make wood gating systems that can be used for multiple patterns of similar size and shape.
                                                 
                                                 
                                                Dave Patterson
                                                odd_kins@...
                                                http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                                --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                                                From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 9:41 AM

                                                i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                                                and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                                                issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                                                I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                                                single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                                                dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                                                FWIW

                                                /sm

                                                On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                                > **
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Well
                                                > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                                                > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                                                > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                                                > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                                                > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                                                > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                                                > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                                                > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                                                > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                                                > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                                                > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                                                > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                                                > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                                                > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                                                > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                                                > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                                                > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                                                > Good-Day
                                                >
                                                > Nelson Collar
                                                >
                                                > ________________________________
                                                > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                                > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                                                >
                                                > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                                                > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                                                > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                                                > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                                                > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                                                > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                                                > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                                                > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                                                > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                                                > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                                                > the problem.
                                                >
                                                > Dave Patterson
                                                > odd_kins@...
                                                > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                                >
                                                > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                                > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                                                > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                                                > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                                                > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                                                > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                                                > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                                                > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                                                > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                                                > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                                                > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                                                > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                                                > you can make some chips.
                                                >
                                                > Nelson Collar
                                                >
                                                > ________________________________
                                                > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                                > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                                                > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                                                > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                                                > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                                                > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                                                > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                                                > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                                                > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                                                > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                                                > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                                                > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                                                > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                                                > until you find what works.
                                                >
                                                > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                                                > a minimum.
                                                > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                                                > act as vents in larger casting.
                                                >
                                                > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                                                > people pouring at the same time.
                                                >
                                                > Dave Patterson
                                                > odd_kins@...
                                                > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                                >
                                                > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                                > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                                > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                                > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                                > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                                > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                                > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                                > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                                > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                                > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                                > would be appreciated
                                                >
                                                > Thanks
                                                >
                                                > /sm
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >

                                                >

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                ------------------------------------

                                                For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                this list does not accept attachments. 

                                                Files area and list services are at:
                                                     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

                                                For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                                     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                                                Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

                                                List Owner:
                                                owly@...

                                                Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Nelson Collar
                                                2.15 has a real nice curved runner. There is no set rule how they run just that the metal flows and does not freeze. Nelson Collar
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
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                                                  2.15 has a real nice curved runner. There is no set rule how they run just that the metal flows and does not freeze.
                                                  Nelson Collar


                                                  ________________________________
                                                  From: Steven DePhillips <stevendeph@...>
                                                  To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:15 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                                   
                                                  Excellent manual.  Much of it was over my head but the part about the bottle riser makes a lot of sense i am going to try it to solve a shrinkage problem i am having. 

                                                  Thanks for sharing!
                                                  Steve DePhillips

                                                  ________________________________
                                                  From: James Bishop bishopaj@...>
                                                  To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:25 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                                   
                                                  I find this PDF manual a pretty good read:

                                                  http://www.sorelmetal.com/en/publi/Gating-risering/Gating-Risering.pdf

                                                  It applies to iron casting but I assume its generally applicable to
                                                  aluminium too.

                                                  One point they make is that runners should be straight, not curved.

                                                  James.

                                                  On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:

                                                  > **
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                                  > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                                  > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                                  > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                                  > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                                  > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                                  > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                                  > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                                  > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                                  > would be appreciated
                                                  >
                                                  > Thanks
                                                  >
                                                  > /sm
                                                  >
                                                  >

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Joseph Feldmann
                                                  Hey there, Folks-   I mfar less experienced than most of you, so take my comment with that in mind, but: I ve found that round-shaped runners create less
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
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                                                    Hey there, Folks-
                                                      I'mfar less experienced than most of you, so take my comment with that in mind, but: I've found that round-shaped runners create less turbulence filling the mold than squared-off ones. Just my 2-cents-worth.

                                                    Yvan Wolvesbane
                                                    Pacifist ...with occasional lapses.


                                                    >________________________________
                                                    >From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                                                    >To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    >Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 12:44 PM
                                                    >Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                    >

                                                    >2.15 has a real nice curved runner. There is no set rule how they run just that the metal flows and does not freeze.
                                                    >Nelson Collar
                                                    >
                                                    >________________________________

                                                    >
                                                    >

                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Nelson Collar
                                                    When looking at most video on u-tube, they cut round like runners. Yes I use round myself and have great results. Some days nothing wants work, I know I m that
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
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                                                      When looking at most video on u-tube, they cut round like runners. Yes I use round myself and have great results. Some days nothing wants work, I know I'm that way.
                                                      Nelson Collar


                                                      ________________________________
                                                      From: Joseph Feldmann <yvanwolvesbane222@...>
                                                      To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 1:46 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                                       
                                                      Hey there, Folks-
                                                        I'mfar less experienced than most of you, so take my comment with that in mind, but: I've found that round-shaped runners create less turbulence filling the mold than squared-off ones. Just my 2-cents-worth.

                                                      Yvan Wolvesbane
                                                      Pacifist ...with occasional lapses.

                                                      >________________________________
                                                      >From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                                      >To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      >Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 12:44 PM
                                                      >Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                      >

                                                      >2.15 has a real nice curved runner. There is no set rule how they run just that the metal flows and does not freeze.
                                                      >Nelson Collar
                                                      >
                                                      >________________________________

                                                      >
                                                      >

                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • David Patterson
                                                      Nelson no need to say sorry. Just pointing out where the picture came from. I thought is was somewhat funny that the picture you showed was the same as the one
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
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                                                        Nelson no need to say sorry. Just pointing out where the picture came from. I thought is was somewhat funny that the picture you showed was the same as the one I happen to look at the day before while scanning the the link. I did give a better example for casting plaques, that showed what I tried to explain below.  There are at least 3 things that can give you a bad casting, poorly made pattern, improperly maintained sand and improperly designed gating system.
                                                         
                                                        Some will start casting something and have problems, then guess at what the problem is. After a few castings they might have stumbled of something that works, without understanding what they did. The next casting that's similar they gate the same way and it doesn't work , so what happened? They don't know. I just point out the need to read, understand and try to apply what others have done, before you start casting. Does not have to be a college level study session, just a little research,on line or in books. If done this way your results will improve faster without so much trial and error. But I've always done this when starting a new endeavor.
                                                         
                                                        So have a great year and many good casting sessions,
                                                         
                                                        Dave Patterson
                                                        odd_kins@...
                                                        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                                        --- On Sat, 1/5/13, Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...> wrote:


                                                        From: Nelson Collar <nel2lar@...>
                                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                        To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 7:46 AM



                                                         



                                                        Dave 
                                                        Yes
                                                        it is from the Navy book. It was just for to show how the C runner
                                                        and nothing else. I do not understand what all the negativity is all
                                                        about. I started in the late 90's and I feel I can make anything I
                                                        want to. If I can help some one out that what it is about? If you
                                                        have a better way, tell him how you would do it. That is what Sage
                                                        needs so give it to him. Sage try and try again, you will find
                                                        something that will work, just do not get disgusted with the not
                                                        complete fills.

                                                        Dave if I ruffled your feathers, I'm sorry. Good day

                                                        Nelson Collar 
                                                           

                                                        ________________________________
                                                        From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                                        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:15 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                                         
                                                        Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It's an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it's a reservoir used to trap any imputities in the metal before entering the runner. If casting a round plaque one to two ingates will work one to two on each side of the sprue. Same would be true for a rectangular plaque, the runner would be more squared off with the largest radius you can put into the corners where the runner changes direction. tapering the runner or stepping runner thickness between each ingate. A riser is not needed when casting a plaque under 3/8" overall thickness. Understand I'm not a professional molder, I'm a patternmaker. When it comes to designing a gating system you always call in the journeyman molder, he knows best. I am only repeating what has be learned from these molders during my time spent in the pattern shop.

                                                        Dave Patterson
                                                        odd_kins@...
                                                        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                                        --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                                        From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                        To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 4:47 PM

                                                         

                                                        Sage
                                                        I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
                                                        I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                                                        Good luck
                                                        Nelson Collar 

                                                        ________________________________
                                                        From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                                        To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                                         
                                                        Sage
                                                        As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
                                                        Nelson Collar

                                                        ________________________________
                                                        From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                                        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                                        i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                                                        and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                                                        issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                                                        I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                                                        single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                                                        dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                                                        FWIW

                                                        /sm

                                                        On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                                        > **
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Well
                                                        > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                                                        > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                                                        > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                                                        > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                                                        > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                                                        > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                                                        > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                                                        > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                                                        > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                                                        > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                                                        > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                                                        > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                                                        > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                                                        > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                                                        > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                                                        > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                                                        > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                                                        > Good-Day
                                                        >
                                                        > Nelson Collar
                                                        >
                                                        > ________________________________
                                                        > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                                        > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                                                        >
                                                        > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                                                        > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                                                        > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                                                        > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                                                        > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                                                        > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                                                        > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                                                        > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                                                        > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                                                        > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                                                        > the problem.
                                                        >
                                                        > Dave Patterson
                                                        > odd_kins@...
                                                        > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                                        >
                                                        > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                                        > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                        > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                                                        > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                                                        > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                                                        > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                                                        > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                                                        > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                                                        > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                                                        > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                                                        > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                                                        > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                                                        > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                                                        > you can make some chips.
                                                        >
                                                        > Nelson Collar
                                                        >
                                                        > ________________________________
                                                        > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                                        > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                                                        > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                                                        > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                                                        > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                                                        > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                                                        > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                                                        > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                                                        > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                                                        > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                                                        > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                                                        > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                                                        > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                                                        > until you find what works.
                                                        >
                                                        > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                                                        > a minimum.
                                                        > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                                                        > act as vents in larger casting.
                                                        >
                                                        > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                                                        > people pouring at the same time.
                                                        >
                                                        > Dave Patterson
                                                        > odd_kins@...
                                                        > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                                        >
                                                        > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                                        > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                        > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                                        > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                                        > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                                        > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                                        > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                                        > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                                        > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                                        > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                                        > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                                        > would be appreciated
                                                        >
                                                        > Thanks
                                                        >
                                                        > /sm
                                                        >
                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >
                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >
                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >
                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >

                                                        >

                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                        ------------------------------------

                                                        For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                        this list does not accept attachments. 

                                                        Files area and list services are at:
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                                                        For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                        check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                                                        Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                        http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

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                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • Nelson Collar
                                                        Dave  I agree with you 100%. If a person is interested in learning anything you must study. My biggest point is that books are written to the way are done
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Jan 5, 2013
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                                                          Dave 
                                                          I agree with you 100%. If a person is interested in learning anything you must study. My biggest point is that books are written to the way are done commercially. In the back yard shop all most anything is worth a try. There is many things that can substituted and still gives a good casting. I guess the thing that gets me the most is that everything has to be done as it says in The Casting Bible and nothing else will work or its wrong. There are many different rat traps and they all get the same result. It that way with casting too. 
                                                          Dave have a good day, I think we chew this dog to death. There is no more to be said.
                                                          Nelson Collar 


                                                          ________________________________
                                                          From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                                                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 7:08 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate


                                                           
                                                          Nelson no need to say sorry. Just pointing out where the picture came from. I thought is was somewhat funny that the picture you showed was the same as the one I happen to look at the day before while scanning the the link. I did give a better example for casting plaques, that showed what I tried to explain below.  There are at least 3 things that can give you a bad casting, poorly made pattern, improperly maintained sand and improperly designed gating system.
                                                           
                                                          Some will start casting something and have problems, then guess at what the problem is. After a few castings they might have stumbled of something that works, without understanding what they did. The next casting that's similar they gate the same way and it doesn't work , so what happened? They don't know. I just point out the need to read, understand and try to apply what others have done, before you start casting. Does not have to be a college level study session, just a little research,on line or in books. If done this way your results will improve faster without so much trial and error. But I've always done this when starting a new endeavor.
                                                           
                                                          So have a great year and many good casting sessions,
                                                           
                                                          Dave Patterson
                                                          odd_kins@...
                                                          http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                                          --- On Sat, 1/5/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                                          From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                          To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.com" hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 7:46 AM

                                                           

                                                          Dave 
                                                          Yes
                                                          it is from the Navy book. It was just for to show how the C runner
                                                          and nothing else. I do not understand what all the negativity is all
                                                          about. I started in the late 90's and I feel I can make anything I
                                                          want to. If I can help some one out that what it is about? If you
                                                          have a better way, tell him how you would do it. That is what Sage
                                                          needs so give it to him. Sage try and try again, you will find
                                                          something that will work, just do not get disgusted with the not
                                                          complete fills.

                                                          Dave if I ruffled your feathers, I'm sorry. Good day

                                                          Nelson Collar 
                                                             

                                                          ________________________________
                                                          From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:15 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                                           
                                                          Nelson that is a picture out of the manual Sage sent you. It's an impeller housing found of page 77 figure 89. The large void is not a riser it's a reservoir used to trap any imputities in the metal before entering the runner. If casting a round plaque one to two ingates will work one to two on each side of the sprue. Same would be true for a rectangular plaque, the runner would be more squared off with the largest radius you can put into the corners where the runner changes direction. tapering the runner or stepping runner thickness between each ingate. A riser is not needed when casting a plaque under 3/8" overall thickness. Understand I'm not a professional molder, I'm a patternmaker. When it comes to designing a gating system you always call in the journeyman molder, he knows best. I am only repeating what has be learned from these molders during my time spent in the pattern shop.

                                                          Dave Patterson
                                                          odd_kins@...
                                                          http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                                          --- On Fri, 1/4/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                                          From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                          To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 4:47 PM

                                                           

                                                          Sage
                                                          I knew in my files I had a pic that would demonstrate how to mold your plaque. 
                                                          I told you to use a C runner, here is a pic with the C runner. If you look there are three spots the metal enters the plaque. And look at the pic where it looks like a coma. The small end is the sprue and the large portion is the riser, then it goes into the C to get your mold. It seems to be a long way to get it but I feel it will solve your problem. Blow the pic up and study it. The part they made was different than yours, but it should work. Look at how the metal goes through the runner and enters the mold at 10, 1 o'clock and about 6:30. The pis is loaded in the photos section under Nelson Collar this should get you there. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/album/1125913416/pic/237319085/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                                                          Good luck
                                                          Nelson Collar 

                                                          ________________________________
                                                          From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                                          To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 5:31 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                                           
                                                          Sage
                                                          As I responded earlier, when casting thin it better done in brass. But it can be done, it just takes time to figure out what works. What I would try is to put a "C" shape runner placing your plaque in the middle. Run a lot of holes so the mold gases can have somewhere to go. Make sure the mold is face down, that way you will get a better looking plaque. The thing is not to give up and if it takes 10 times, remember you are having fun with what you do. Or you would not do it.
                                                          Nelson Collar

                                                          ________________________________
                                                          From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 12:41 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate

                                                          i'm not an amateur or an expert.. I've done about 50 lost foam castings,
                                                          and finally seeing the light with wood objects.  I'm really just having
                                                          issues with thin objects, and haven't done a round/circular object before.
                                                          I've seen some large foam circular objects and they angle 4 sprues into a
                                                          single point from my research.  I have no problem with trial and error but
                                                          dont like wasting my time if I can lean on the community for advice....

                                                          FWIW

                                                          /sm

                                                          On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:

                                                          > **
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Well
                                                          > I guess I missed something. If you read it all, When we start trying
                                                          > to do things in the home shop perfection is not necessary. The sprue
                                                          > does not require all the technical data. I use the same sprue for all
                                                          > of my pours. Sometimes I use a riser, and I put the riser before the
                                                          > cavity that way is ant bad metal will rise up the riser instead of
                                                          > the pattern, and also helps preventing the part to be full with no
                                                          > voids or over shrinkage. Cast can be a very rewarding skill, but if
                                                          > we get all bogged up in things that have no call for at all. Like I
                                                          > said about my South Bend, it has some areas that needed cosmetic
                                                          > work. If the casting is made rigid it will withstand a lick-en and
                                                          > still hold up. For the first timer, read and read some more, but do
                                                          > not approach like it has to be perfect. The best way to get good at
                                                          > anything we must start some where. If the simple guidelines are
                                                          > followed it should yield good and workable parts. The more we
                                                          > practice the more experience we will gain and hopefully the better we
                                                          > will get as we hon our skills. I know how to cast and the advice to others
                                                          > is to jump in and do something. Read and follow what others have done.
                                                          > Good-Day
                                                          >
                                                          > Nelson Collar
                                                          >
                                                          > ________________________________
                                                          > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                                          > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 7:06 PM
                                                          >
                                                          > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > I did keep it simple. Someone asked a question and the last thing I would
                                                          > tell anyone is to start casting so you can make chips. Making a working
                                                          > casting and making a good casting are two different things. I would like to
                                                          > see people making good, solid and clean looking castings. Following a few
                                                          > simple rules for gating will make your chances better. If you want a
                                                          > working casting, by all means, guess at the gating, guess if it needs
                                                          > risers or not. And when your done if it's not perfect, Bondo the voids
                                                          > and paint the casting to hide the defects. I would just as soon not but
                                                          > that is just me. And yes I do analyze my pours, if I don't get a good
                                                          > casting I will cut it up to find out what went wrong. Then try to correct
                                                          > the problem.
                                                          >
                                                          > Dave Patterson
                                                          > odd_kins@...
                                                          > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                                          >
                                                          > --- On Thu, 1/3/13, Nelson Collar nel2lar@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > From: Nelson Collar nel2lar@...>
                                                          > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                          > To: "hobbicast@yahoogroups.comhobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Why are you being so technical about it. You are doing something that only
                                                          > care needs be heeded. As far as pour rates and all that info has no bearing
                                                          > to us, just that the cavity fills and is useable. Its bad enough if you try
                                                          > to make something bigger than directed, because there are things you
                                                          > overlook until you are done and you need to make changes. I know I made the
                                                          > shaper larger to 8 inches and overlooked a few things. Be realistic and
                                                          > start doing something to make chips. And yes all that high tech stuff is
                                                          > not needed. Next thing you will start to analyze
                                                          > your metal pours. Which is impossible because we can not get the
                                                          > equipment to change anything before pouring. If you never heard the
                                                          > K.I.S.S. explained well, Keep It Simple S****d. Make some castings so
                                                          > you can make some chips.
                                                          >
                                                          > Nelson Collar
                                                          >
                                                          > ________________________________
                                                          > From: David Patterson odd_kins@...>
                                                          > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:49 PM
                                                          > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > You need to calulate the amount of time you need to fill the mold cavity.
                                                          > Then starting from the ingates calulate the size needed to fill the cavity
                                                          > in that time. Shape and number of the ingates will be dictated by the shape
                                                          > of the casting. The cross sectional area of the runner/runners will be
                                                          > equal to the sectional area of the ingate/ingates. The sectional area of
                                                          > the sprue(smallest diameter) will be 1/4 the area of the runner. But this
                                                          > is just a starting point, you adjust from here until you get a good
                                                          > casting. Don't forget to cut a pouring basin into the cope, about 3 times
                                                          > the diameter of the sprue. This is a 1-4-4 ratio used in non ferrous
                                                          > foundrys, 1 is the sectional area of the sprue, 4 sectional area of all
                                                          > runners and 4 sectional area of all ingates. Beyoud this trial and error
                                                          > until you find what works.
                                                          >
                                                          > The idea is to keep the sprue full during the pour, keeping turbulance to
                                                          > a minimum.
                                                          > Thin casting that don't require risers, vent, a lot if unsure. Risers will
                                                          > act as vents in larger casting.
                                                          >
                                                          > The only reason to have a second sprue(outgate) would be if you have 2
                                                          > people pouring at the same time.
                                                          >
                                                          > Dave Patterson
                                                          > odd_kins@...
                                                          > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                                          >
                                                          > --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Sage McGirk freeflysage@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > From: Sage McGirk freeflysage@...>
                                                          > Subject: [hobbicast] ingate / outgate
                                                          > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Happy new year everyone! I've been hobbicasting for about 6/7 months
                                                          > now, and I'm looking for any sort of rule of thumb for the size of the
                                                          > ingate/outgate holes. I'm starting to cast some bigger objects (>
                                                          > 3-4") that tend to be fairly thin. I've learned to POUR faster to
                                                          > ensure nothing cools prematurely but find some objects still dont
                                                          > quite finish. I'm guessing larger ingates are the trick. I'm also
                                                          > about to embark on some gear shaped objects, and wondering how ,if
                                                          > needed, to do multiple sprue holes as I've seen with lost foam, but
                                                          > will be using wood as objects now. Any advice, video's, pictures
                                                          > would be appreciated
                                                          >
                                                          > Thanks
                                                          >
                                                          > /sm
                                                          >
                                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          >
                                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          >
                                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          >
                                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          >

                                                          >

                                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                          ------------------------------------

                                                          For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                          this list does not accept attachments. 

                                                          Files area and list services are at:
                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

                                                          For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                          check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                                                          Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                          http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

                                                          List Owner:
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                                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        • phil
                                                          I have found that this book really tells you all you need to know, is written by a man whos carrer was in proffesional metal casting and foundry work. Needles
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Jan 6, 2013
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                                                            I have found that this book really tells you all you need to know, is written by a man whos carrer was in proffesional metal casting and foundry work. Needles to say it contains no complex mathematics. We have been succesfully casting metal on this planet since the bronze age!;-)
                                                            The Complete Handbook of Sand Casting (Tab books) by C. W. Ammen (1 Jan 1982)
                                                            Phil

                                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          • Wonk
                                                            Amen - and very good books! I have watched Mr Ammen casting as a young lad when visiting my grandparents near Manitou Colorado. His knowledge on casting has
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Jan 8, 2013
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                                                              Amen - and very good books! I have watched Mr Ammen casting as a young lad when visiting my grandparents near Manitou Colorado. His knowledge on casting has inspired me through the years.

                                                              Wonk

                                                              --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "phil" wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > I have found that this book really tells you all you need to know, is written by a man whos carrer was in proffesional metal casting and foundry work. Needles to say it contains no complex mathematics. We have been succesfully casting metal on this planet since the bronze age!;-)
                                                              > The Complete Handbook of Sand Casting (Tab books) by C. W. Ammen (1 Jan 1982)
                                                              > Phil
                                                              >
                                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                              >
                                                            • Dennis
                                                              Mr. Amen s books are a fun read. He has individual books on Aluminum, Brass and Cast Iron. Even if one is not interested in casting that metal, just reading
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Jan 8, 2013
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                                                                Mr. Amen's books are a fun read. He has individual books on Aluminum, Brass
                                                                and Cast Iron. Even if one is not interested in casting that metal, just
                                                                reading the books is fun. His characterization of a 'bandy legged sand crab'
                                                                as a prototype foundry man is great. Well worth checking used book stores
                                                                for copies.

                                                                Dennis Cranston

                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                From: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hobbicast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                                Of Wonk
                                                                Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 2:15 PM
                                                                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                                Subject: [hobbicast] Re: ingate / outgate

                                                                Amen - and very good books! I have watched Mr Ammen casting as a young lad
                                                                when visiting my grandparents near Manitou Colorado. His knowledge on
                                                                casting has inspired me through the years.

                                                                Wonk

                                                                --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "phil" wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > I have found that this book really tells you all you need to know, is
                                                                > written by a man whos carrer was in proffesional metal casting and
                                                                > foundry work. Needles to say it contains no complex mathematics. We
                                                                > have been succesfully casting metal on this planet since the bronze
                                                                > age!;-) The Complete Handbook of Sand Casting (Tab books) by C. W.
                                                                > Ammen (1 Jan 1982) Phil
                                                                >
                                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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