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Re: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron

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  • David Patterson
    Iron is a base metal, adding carbon to steel makes high carbon steel. Looking at your video, where you cut the gate off, looks shiny. If it were iron it would
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 7, 2011
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      Iron is a base metal, adding carbon to steel makes high carbon steel. Looking at your video, where you cut the gate off, looks shiny. If it were iron it would be dull. An easy way to tell is iron shrinks at 1/16" per foot, steel is 1/4" per foot. Measure your pattern and the casting to see what the difference is.

      Dave Patterson
      odd_kins@...
      http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

      --- On Wed, 12/7/11, Rod <granthams@...> wrote:


      From: Rod <granthams@...>
      Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
      To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 7:19 AM



       





      --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "ferrman1001" <ferrman1001@...> wrote:
      >
      > I did an experiment using mild steel punchings and ball bearing races plus crushed coke in a crucible to see if the steel would absorb enough carbon so it will become cast iron. It worked so I a made pulley casting and machined it in my lathe, here are the videos: mold making video http://youtu.be/Hu2OFZ_TefU steel to cast iron video http://youtu.be/pqMB9EumHQg Ernie
      >

      Very impressive videos, Ernie. My punch turds aren't
      nearly this big. What kind of punch makes them?

      Rod








      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • ferrman1001
      Dave The casting was 1/8 smaller in dia than the pattern and the pattern is 9 3/8 dia. I use an angle grinder to cut of gates etc so the cut always looks
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 7, 2011
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        Dave The casting was 1/8" smaller in dia than the pattern and the pattern is 9 3/8" dia. I use an angle grinder to cut of gates etc so the cut always looks shiny. The sample broke like csst iron and if it was steel it would bend, also if it was steel and is not ductile it would be so hard I would not be able to cut it in the lathe. The chips that came off look like cast iron. It would be interesting to get a sample analyized to see how much carbon is in it. Ernie
      • Lee McKee
        I throw a bit of steel scrap into my cupola to balance out the high amounts of carbon. Along with a bit of innoculation, I can get a pretty good grey iron out
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 8, 2011
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          I throw a bit of steel scrap into my cupola to balance out the high amounts of carbon. Along with a bit of innoculation, I can get a pretty good grey iron out of scrap bathtubs and steel. The coke really does impregnate the metal with a signifigant amount of carbon.


          ________________________________
          From: ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...>
          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011, 0:23:58
          Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron


           
          Dave The casting was 1/8" smaller in dia than the pattern and the pattern is 9 3/8" dia. I use an angle grinder to cut of gates etc so the cut always looks shiny. The sample broke like csst iron and if it was steel it would bend, also if it was steel and is not ductile it would be so hard I would not be able to cut it in the lathe. The chips that came off look like cast iron. It would be interesting to get a sample analyized to see how much carbon is in it. Ernie




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David Patterson
          That would be about right if your mold was rammed hard or you used an airset sand. The casting would break similar to iron, it has no grain structure like
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 8, 2011
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            That would be about right if your mold was rammed hard or you used an airset sand. The casting would break similar to iron, it has no grain structure like extruded steel nor does it have any temper if you let it cool in the mold. Would like to see it analized too, I got lots of scrap steel I can get a hold of. 

            Dave Patterson
            odd_kins@...
            http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

            --- On Wed, 12/7/11, ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...> wrote:


            From: ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...>
            Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:23 PM



             



            Dave The casting was 1/8" smaller in dia than the pattern and the pattern is 9 3/8" dia. I use an angle grinder to cut of gates etc so the cut always looks shiny. The sample broke like csst iron and if it was steel it would bend, also if it was steel and is not ductile it would be so hard I would not be able to cut it in the lathe. The chips that came off look like cast iron. It would be interesting to get a sample analyized to see how much carbon is in it. Ernie








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Evan Daniel
            I m pretty sure a crude analysis for carbon content is easy to do at home (with a decent scale, anyway). I have some scrap steel and cast iron; I ll do some
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 8, 2011
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              I'm pretty sure a crude analysis for carbon content is easy to do at
              home (with a decent scale, anyway). I have some scrap steel and cast
              iron; I'll do some tests and post methods.

              Evan Daniel

              On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 7:15 PM, David Patterson <odd_kins@...> wrote:
              > That would be about right if your mold was rammed hard or you used an airset sand. The casting would break similar to iron, it has no grain structure like extruded steel nor does it have any temper if you let it cool in the mold. Would like to see it analized too, I got lots of scrap steel I can get a hold of.
              >
              > Dave Patterson
              > odd_kins@...
              > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
              >
              > --- On Wed, 12/7/11, ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...>
              > Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:23 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Dave The casting was 1/8" smaller in dia than the pattern and the pattern is 9 3/8" dia. I use an angle grinder to cut of gates etc so the cut always looks shiny. The sample broke like csst iron and if it was steel it would bend, also if it was steel and is not ductile it would be so hard I would not be able to cut it in the lathe. The chips that came off look like cast iron. It would be interesting to get a sample analyized to see how much carbon is in it. Ernie
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
              > this list does not accept attachments.
              >
              > Files area and list services are at:
              >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
              >
              > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
              > check out these two affiliated sites:
              >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
              >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
              >
              > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
              > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
              >
              > List Owner:
              > owly@...
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • ferrman1001
              Rod I get the punchings from a firm that makes garages and large biuldings and I have seen the machine operate, I think it is called a cropping machine. It can
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 8, 2011
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                Rod I get the punchings from a firm that makes garages and large biuldings and I have seen the machine operate, I think it is called a cropping machine. It can punch holes and slots in 3/8" thick plate. Ernie
              • mwbeaty2000
                The material commonly known as cast iron is not elemental iron, and has a much higher carbon level than steel. The Foundry I worked in used a combination of
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 8, 2011
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                  The material commonly known as "cast iron" is not elemental iron, and has a much higher carbon level than steel. The Foundry I worked in used a combination of pig iron, scrap castings and cutoff sprues and risers, and scrap steel. Carbon and silicon levels were checked and adjusted before we poured.

                  Mike B.

                  --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, David Patterson <odd_kins@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Iron is a base metal, adding carbon to steel makes high carbon steel. Looking at your video, where you cut the gate off, looks shiny. If it were iron it would be dull. An easy way to tell is iron shrinks at 1/16" per foot, steel is 1/4" per foot. Measure your pattern and the casting to see what the difference is.
                  >
                  > Dave Patterson
                  > odd_kins@...
                  > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                  >
                  > --- On Wed, 12/7/11, Rod <granthams@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Rod <granthams@...>
                  > Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                  > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 7:19 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "ferrman1001" <ferrman1001@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I did an experiment using mild steel punchings and ball bearing races plus crushed coke in a crucible to see if the steel would absorb enough carbon so it will become cast iron. It worked so I a made pulley casting and machined it in my lathe, here are the videos: mold making video http://youtu.be/Hu2OFZ_TefU steel to cast iron video http://youtu.be/pqMB9EumHQg Ernie
                  > >
                  >
                  > Very impressive videos, Ernie. My punch turds aren't
                  > nearly this big. What kind of punch makes them?
                  >
                  > Rod
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • mwbeaty2000
                  We used chill wedges. when the wedge is broken, the carbon level is determined by measuring the grain structure on the knife edge.
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 8, 2011
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                    We used chill wedges. when the wedge is broken, the carbon level is determined by measuring the grain structure on the knife edge.

                    http://www.ductile.org/magazine/1998_3/effect.htm

                    Th iron foundry I worked at had a cupola, but it was not in service, we used an induction furnace.

                    Mike B.

                    --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Evan Daniel <evand@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm pretty sure a crude analysis for carbon content is easy to do at
                    > home (with a decent scale, anyway). I have some scrap steel and cast
                    > iron; I'll do some tests and post methods.
                    >
                    > Evan Daniel
                    >
                    > On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 7:15 PM, David Patterson <odd_kins@...> wrote:
                    > > That would be about right if your mold was rammed hard or you used an airset sand. The casting would break similar to iron, it has no grain structure like extruded steel nor does it have any temper if you let it cool in the mold. Would like to see it analized too, I got lots of scrap steel I can get a hold of.
                    > >
                    > > Dave Patterson
                    > > odd_kins@...
                    > > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                    > >
                    > > --- On Wed, 12/7/11, ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > From: ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...>
                    > > Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                    > > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:23 PM
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Dave The casting was 1/8" smaller in dia than the pattern and the pattern is 9 3/8" dia. I use an angle grinder to cut of gates etc so the cut always looks shiny. The sample broke like csst iron and if it was steel it would bend, also if it was steel and is not ductile it would be so hard I would not be able to cut it in the lathe. The chips that came off look like cast iron. It would be interesting to get a sample analyized to see how much carbon is in it. Ernie
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                    > > this list does not accept attachments.
                    > >
                    > > Files area and list services are at:
                    > >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                    > >
                    > > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                    > > check out these two affiliated sites:
                    > >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                    > >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                    > >
                    > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                    > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                    > >
                    > > List Owner:
                    > > owly@...
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • ferrman1001
                    Dave The mold was made from green sand and was rammed very softly. I made a video machining it in my lathe http://youtu.be/R6tIhaM2We0 It looks like cast iron
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 9, 2011
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                      Dave

                      The mold was made from green sand and was rammed very softly. I made a video machining it in my lathe http://youtu.be/R6tIhaM2We0 It looks like cast iron when the tool cuts it also the tool is high speed steel, I did not use a carbide tip.

                      Ernie
                    • David Patterson
                      Still looks like cast steel to me. I prefer using hss to carbide for lathe work regardless of the material(steel, iron, aluminum or correr alloys) I can
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 9, 2011
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                        Still looks like cast steel to me. I prefer using hss to carbide for lathe work regardless of the material(steel, iron, aluminum or correr alloys) I can machine at home. The shrinkage of the casting was 3/16 per foot, iron will not shrink that much. I like your lathe, I need a bigger/stronger one than the grizzly I got now.


                        Dave Patterson
                        odd_kins@...
                        http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                        --- On Fri, 12/9/11, ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...> wrote:


                        From: ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...>
                        Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                        To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Friday, December 9, 2011, 4:27 PM



                         



                        Dave

                        The mold was made from green sand and was rammed very softly. I made a video machining it in my lathe http://youtu.be/R6tIhaM2We0 It looks like cast iron when the tool cuts it also the tool is high speed steel, I did not use a carbide tip.

                        Ernie








                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • David Patterson
                        True, but how many times did they melt steel to make cast iron. You will end up with a iron alloy which is closer to cast steel than iron. Steel casting are
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 9, 2011
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                          True, but how many times did they melt steel to make cast iron. You will end up with a iron alloy which is closer to cast steel than iron. Steel casting are more brittle than drawn steel and will machine more like cast iron than machining rolled plate. The foundries I worked for did test samples on aluminum and copper alloys too. Never did see one make copper castings by adding more copper to brass;-) 

                          Dave Patterson
                          odd_kins@...
                          http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                          --- On Thu, 12/8/11, mwbeaty2000 <beatymwarren@...> wrote:


                          From: mwbeaty2000 <beatymwarren@...>
                          Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Thursday, December 8, 2011, 11:11 PM



                           



                          The material commonly known as "cast iron" is not elemental iron, and has a much higher carbon level than steel. The Foundry I worked in used a combination of pig iron, scrap castings and cutoff sprues and risers, and scrap steel. Carbon and silicon levels were checked and adjusted before we poured.

                          Mike B.

                          --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, David Patterson <odd_kins@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Iron is a base metal, adding carbon to steel makes high carbon steel. Looking at your video, where you cut the gate off, looks shiny. If it were iron it would be dull. An easy way to tell is iron shrinks at 1/16" per foot, steel is 1/4" per foot. Measure your pattern and the casting to see what the difference is.
                          >
                          > Dave Patterson
                          > odd_kins@...
                          > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                          >
                          > --- On Wed, 12/7/11, Rod <granthams@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > From: Rod <granthams@...>
                          > Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                          > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 7:19 AM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "ferrman1001" <ferrman1001@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I did an experiment using mild steel punchings and ball bearing races plus crushed coke in a crucible to see if the steel would absorb enough carbon so it will become cast iron. It worked so I a made pulley casting and machined it in my lathe, here are the videos: mold making video http://youtu.be/Hu2OFZ_TefU steel to cast iron video http://youtu.be/pqMB9EumHQg Ernie
                          > >
                          >
                          > Very impressive videos, Ernie. My punch turds aren't
                          > nearly this big. What kind of punch makes them?
                          >
                          > Rod
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >








                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • giesser@aol.com
                          I had to jump in to this discussion. You can convert steel into cast iron by adding 3-4% carbon and 1-2% silicon. You can make steel from cast iron by removing
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 10, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I had to jump in to this discussion. You can convert steel into cast iron by adding 3-4% carbon and 1-2% silicon. You can make steel from cast iron by removing the carbon. It is the carbon content that determines if it is steel or cast iron.

                            Almost every iron foundry in the world makes cast iron and Ductile iron by melting steel scrap and adding carbon.

                            You can make reasonably good cast iron by melting low carbon steel scrap with an excess of carbon. Add about 5-6% by weight of a carbon source (charcoal or coal). This will naturally want to become a eutectic iron that contains about 4.3% carbon. Eutectic iron has the lowest melting point of any iron alloy, including pure iron. This iron should be fully liquid by about 2200 degrees F.

                            But, in order to make a machinable iron, you need to inoculate with ferrosilicon immediately before pouring. This will allow the carbon in solution to precipitate as flakes, which enhance the machinability.

                            If you don't inoculate, the iron will likely be hard and brittle. We call this white iron.

                            "In Pyro Veritas"

                            Tom Cobett
                            Cleveland, Ohio
                            Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                            Sender: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 17:41:43
                            To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                            Reply-To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron

                            True, but how many times did they melt steel to make cast iron. You will end up with a iron alloy which is closer to cast steel than iron. Steel casting are more brittle than drawn steel and will machine more like cast iron than machining rolled plate. The foundries I worked for did test samples on aluminum and copper alloys too. Never did see one make copper castings by adding more copper to brass;-) 

                            Dave Patterson
                            odd_kins@...
                            http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                            --- On Thu, 12/8/11, mwbeaty2000 <beatymwarren@...> wrote:


                            From: mwbeaty2000 <beatymwarren@...>
                            Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Thursday, December 8, 2011, 11:11 PM



                             



                            The material commonly known as "cast iron" is not elemental iron, and has a much higher carbon level than steel. The Foundry I worked in used a combination of pig iron, scrap castings and cutoff sprues and risers, and scrap steel. Carbon and silicon levels were checked and adjusted before we poured.

                            Mike B.

                            --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, David Patterson <odd_kins@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Iron is a base metal, adding carbon to steel makes high carbon steel. Looking at your video, where you cut the gate off, looks shiny. If it were iron it would be dull. An easy way to tell is iron shrinks at 1/16" per foot, steel is 1/4" per foot. Measure your pattern and the casting to see what the difference is.
                            >
                            > Dave Patterson
                            > odd_kins@...
                            > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                            >
                            > --- On Wed, 12/7/11, Rod <granthams@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > From: Rod <granthams@...>
                            > Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                            > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 7:19 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "ferrman1001" <ferrman1001@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I did an experiment using mild steel punchings and ball bearing races plus crushed coke in a crucible to see if the steel would absorb enough carbon so it will become cast iron. It worked so I a made pulley casting and machined it in my lathe, here are the videos: mold making video http://youtu.be/Hu2OFZ_TefU steel to cast iron video http://youtu.be/pqMB9EumHQg Ernie
                            > >
                            >
                            > Very impressive videos, Ernie. My punch turds aren't
                            > nearly this big. What kind of punch makes them?
                            >
                            > Rod
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >








                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • David Patterson
                            The iron you describe is still an alloy of iron(base metal). I was wrong stating you would get high carbon steel, looks like the carbon content in
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 10, 2011
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                              The iron you describe is still an alloy of iron(base metal). I was wrong stating you would get high carbon steel, looks like the carbon content in mild steel higher than high carbon steel, so much for a name. I stand corrected. But based on the shrinkage of the casting I still think the pulley casting is a steel alloy. See patternmakers shrink table below. These are typical of what is used in the pattern shop, some foundries will use 1/16 per foot for iron. The iron I'm used to machining is gray iron used for shell molds.
                               
                                                             Typical Shrinkage
                               
                              Metal                                                        (Inches per foot)
                              Cast Iron . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/10
                              Ductile Iron . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/10
                              Malleable Iron . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/10
                              Steel. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/16 or 1/4


                              Dave Patterson
                              odd_kins@...
                              http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                              --- On Sat, 12/10/11, giesser@... <giesser@...> wrote:


                              From: giesser@... <giesser@...>
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Saturday, December 10, 2011, 6:24 AM



                               



                              I had to jump in to this discussion. You can convert steel into cast iron by adding 3-4% carbon and 1-2% silicon. You can make steel from cast iron by removing the carbon. It is the carbon content that determines if it is steel or cast iron.

                              Almost every iron foundry in the world makes cast iron and Ductile iron by melting steel scrap and adding carbon.

                              You can make reasonably good cast iron by melting low carbon steel scrap with an excess of carbon. Add about 5-6% by weight of a carbon source (charcoal or coal). This will naturally want to become a eutectic iron that contains about 4.3% carbon. Eutectic iron has the lowest melting point of any iron alloy, including pure iron. This iron should be fully liquid by about 2200 degrees F.

                              But, in order to make a machinable iron, you need to inoculate with ferrosilicon immediately before pouring. This will allow the carbon in solution to precipitate as flakes, which enhance the machinability.

                              If you don't inoculate, the iron will likely be hard and brittle. We call this white iron.

                              "In Pyro Veritas"

                              Tom Cobett
                              Cleveland, Ohio
                              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                              Sender: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 17:41:43
                              To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                              Reply-To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron

                              True, but how many times did they melt steel to make cast iron. You will end up with a iron alloy which is closer to cast steel than iron. Steel casting are more brittle than drawn steel and will machine more like cast iron than machining rolled plate. The foundries I worked for did test samples on aluminum and copper alloys too. Never did see one make copper castings by adding more copper to brass;-) 

                              Dave Patterson
                              odd_kins@...
                              http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                              --- On Thu, 12/8/11, mwbeaty2000 <beatymwarren@...> wrote:


                              From: mwbeaty2000 <beatymwarren@...>
                              Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Thursday, December 8, 2011, 11:11 PM



                               



                              The material commonly known as "cast iron" is not elemental iron, and has a much higher carbon level than steel. The Foundry I worked in used a combination of pig iron, scrap castings and cutoff sprues and risers, and scrap steel. Carbon and silicon levels were checked and adjusted before we poured.

                              Mike B.

                              --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, David Patterson <odd_kins@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Iron is a base metal, adding carbon to steel makes high carbon steel. Looking at your video, where you cut the gate off, looks shiny. If it were iron it would be dull. An easy way to tell is iron shrinks at 1/16" per foot, steel is 1/4" per foot. Measure your pattern and the casting to see what the difference is.
                              >
                              > Dave Patterson
                              > odd_kins@...
                              > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                              >
                              > --- On Wed, 12/7/11, Rod <granthams@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > From: Rod <granthams@...>
                              > Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 7:19 AM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "ferrman1001" <ferrman1001@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I did an experiment using mild steel punchings and ball bearing races plus crushed coke in a crucible to see if the steel would absorb enough carbon so it will become cast iron. It worked so I a made pulley casting and machined it in my lathe, here are the videos: mold making video http://youtu.be/Hu2OFZ_TefU steel to cast iron video http://youtu.be/pqMB9EumHQg Ernie
                              > >
                              >
                              > Very impressive videos, Ernie. My punch turds aren't
                              > nearly this big. What kind of punch makes them?
                              >
                              > Rod
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >








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                            • Carlos Contreras
                              Hi everybody.   True in comercial iron foundry´s they use steel scrap to produce iron, they melt it in cupola furnaces or Induction furnaces, and some in
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 14, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi everybody.
                                 
                                True in comercial iron foundry´s they use steel scrap to produce iron, they melt it in cupola furnaces or Induction furnaces, and some in electric arc furnaces BUT.
                                 
                                I have to recognize the Job made by Ernie
                                 
                                He make it in a Hobby Waste Oil furnace...!!!!    and that is fantastic..
                                 
                                I mean big comercial company´s can make many thinks becouse the reossources they have. this group is to share experiences like Erine´s experience.. in a Hobby enviroment.
                                 
                                hoppe you got my point.
                                 
                                All the Best
                                 
                                --- El sáb 10-dic-11, giesser@... <giesser@...> escribió:


                                De: giesser@... <giesser@...>
                                Asunto: Re: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                                A: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                Fecha: sábado, 10 de diciembre de 2011, 14:24



                                 



                                I had to jump in to this discussion. You can convert steel into cast iron by adding 3-4% carbon and 1-2% silicon. You can make steel from cast iron by removing the carbon. It is the carbon content that determines if it is steel or cast iron.

                                Almost every iron foundry in the world makes cast iron and Ductile iron by melting steel scrap and adding carbon.

                                You can make reasonably good cast iron by melting low carbon steel scrap with an excess of carbon. Add about 5-6% by weight of a carbon source (charcoal or coal). This will naturally want to become a eutectic iron that contains about 4.3% carbon. Eutectic iron has the lowest melting point of any iron alloy, including pure iron. This iron should be fully liquid by about 2200 degrees F.

                                But, in order to make a machinable iron, you need to inoculate with ferrosilicon immediately before pouring. This will allow the carbon in solution to precipitate as flakes, which enhance the machinability.

                                If you don't inoculate, the iron will likely be hard and brittle. We call this white iron.

                                "In Pyro Veritas"

                                Tom Cobett
                                Cleveland, Ohio
                                Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                                Sender: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 17:41:43
                                To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                Reply-To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron

                                True, but how many times did they melt steel to make cast iron. You will end up with a iron alloy which is closer to cast steel than iron. Steel casting are more brittle than drawn steel and will machine more like cast iron than machining rolled plate. The foundries I worked for did test samples on aluminum and copper alloys too. Never did see one make copper castings by adding more copper to brass;-) 

                                Dave Patterson
                                odd_kins@...
                                http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                --- On Thu, 12/8/11, mwbeaty2000 <beatymwarren@...> wrote:


                                From: mwbeaty2000 <beatymwarren@...>
                                Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Thursday, December 8, 2011, 11:11 PM



                                 



                                The material commonly known as "cast iron" is not elemental iron, and has a much higher carbon level than steel. The Foundry I worked in used a combination of pig iron, scrap castings and cutoff sprues and risers, and scrap steel. Carbon and silicon levels were checked and adjusted before we poured.

                                Mike B.

                                --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, David Patterson <odd_kins@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Iron is a base metal, adding carbon to steel makes high carbon steel. Looking at your video, where you cut the gate off, looks shiny. If it were iron it would be dull. An easy way to tell is iron shrinks at 1/16" per foot, steel is 1/4" per foot. Measure your pattern and the casting to see what the difference is.
                                >
                                > Dave Patterson
                                > odd_kins@...
                                > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                >
                                > --- On Wed, 12/7/11, Rod <granthams@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > From: Rod <granthams@...>
                                > Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                                > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 7:19 AM
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "ferrman1001" <ferrman1001@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I did an experiment using mild steel punchings and ball bearing races plus crushed coke in a crucible to see if the steel would absorb enough carbon so it will become cast iron. It worked so I a made pulley casting and machined it in my lathe, here are the videos: mold making video http://youtu.be/Hu2OFZ_TefU steel to cast iron video http://youtu.be/pqMB9EumHQg Ernie
                                > >
                                >
                                > Very impressive videos, Ernie. My punch turds aren't
                                > nearly this big. What kind of punch makes them?
                                >
                                > Rod
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >








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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • David Patterson
                                I don t question what has been done, good job. Just questioning the alloy, is it steel or iron? My guess would be closer to steel. It would be nice to see it
                                Message 15 of 19 , Dec 15, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I don't question what has been done, good job. Just questioning the alloy, is it steel or iron? My guess would be closer to steel. It would be nice to see it analized.

                                  Dave Patterson
                                  odd_kins@...
                                  http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                  --- On Wed, 12/14/11, Carlos Contreras <maximo64@...> wrote:


                                  From: Carlos Contreras <maximo64@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                                  To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Wednesday, December 14, 2011, 10:30 PM



                                   



                                  Hi everybody.
                                   
                                  True in comercial iron foundry´s they use steel scrap to produce iron, they melt it in cupola furnaces or Induction furnaces, and some in electric arc furnaces BUT.
                                   
                                  I have to recognize the Job made by Ernie
                                   
                                  He make it in a Hobby Waste Oil furnace...!!!!    and that is fantastic..
                                   
                                  I mean big comercial company´s can make many thinks becouse the reossources they have. this group is to share experiences like Erine´s experience.. in a Hobby enviroment.
                                   
                                  hoppe you got my point.
                                   
                                  All the Best
                                   
                                  --- El sáb 10-dic-11, giesser@... <giesser@...> escribió:

                                  De: giesser@... <giesser@...>
                                  Asunto: Re: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                                  A: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                  Fecha: sábado, 10 de diciembre de 2011, 14:24

                                   

                                  I had to jump in to this discussion. You can convert steel into cast iron by adding 3-4% carbon and 1-2% silicon. You can make steel from cast iron by removing the carbon. It is the carbon content that determines if it is steel or cast iron.

                                  Almost every iron foundry in the world makes cast iron and Ductile iron by melting steel scrap and adding carbon.

                                  You can make reasonably good cast iron by melting low carbon steel scrap with an excess of carbon. Add about 5-6% by weight of a carbon source (charcoal or coal). This will naturally want to become a eutectic iron that contains about 4.3% carbon. Eutectic iron has the lowest melting point of any iron alloy, including pure iron. This iron should be fully liquid by about 2200 degrees F.

                                  But, in order to make a machinable iron, you need to inoculate with ferrosilicon immediately before pouring. This will allow the carbon in solution to precipitate as flakes, which enhance the machinability.

                                  If you don't inoculate, the iron will likely be hard and brittle. We call this white iron.

                                  "In Pyro Veritas"

                                  Tom Cobett
                                  Cleveland, Ohio
                                  Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                                  Sender: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 17:41:43
                                  To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Reply-To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron

                                  True, but how many times did they melt steel to make cast iron. You will end up with a iron alloy which is closer to cast steel than iron. Steel casting are more brittle than drawn steel and will machine more like cast iron than machining rolled plate. The foundries I worked for did test samples on aluminum and copper alloys too. Never did see one make copper castings by adding more copper to brass;-) 

                                  Dave Patterson
                                  odd_kins@...
                                  http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                  --- On Thu, 12/8/11, mwbeaty2000 <beatymwarren@...> wrote:

                                  From: mwbeaty2000 <beatymwarren@...>
                                  Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                                  To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Thursday, December 8, 2011, 11:11 PM

                                   

                                  The material commonly known as "cast iron" is not elemental iron, and has a much higher carbon level than steel. The Foundry I worked in used a combination of pig iron, scrap castings and cutoff sprues and risers, and scrap steel. Carbon and silicon levels were checked and adjusted before we poured.

                                  Mike B.

                                  --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, David Patterson <odd_kins@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Iron is a base metal, adding carbon to steel makes high carbon steel. Looking at your video, where you cut the gate off, looks shiny. If it were iron it would be dull. An easy way to tell is iron shrinks at 1/16" per foot, steel is 1/4" per foot. Measure your pattern and the casting to see what the difference is.
                                  >
                                  > Dave Patterson
                                  > odd_kins@...
                                  > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                  >
                                  > --- On Wed, 12/7/11, Rod <granthams@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: Rod <granthams@...>
                                  > Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                                  > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 7:19 AM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "ferrman1001" <ferrman1001@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I did an experiment using mild steel punchings and ball bearing races plus crushed coke in a crucible to see if the steel would absorb enough carbon so it will become cast iron. It worked so I a made pulley casting and machined it in my lathe, here are the videos: mold making video http://youtu.be/Hu2OFZ_TefU steel to cast iron video http://youtu.be/pqMB9EumHQg Ernie
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > Very impressive videos, Ernie. My punch turds aren't
                                  > nearly this big. What kind of punch makes them?
                                  >
                                  > Rod
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • sparky_blz
                                  I am relatively new to this field, but i have to say, after seeing the videos the first thought that came to my mind was high-carbon steel, can t wait for the
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Dec 20, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I am relatively new to this field, but i have to say, after seeing the videos the first thought that came to my mind was high-carbon steel, can't wait for the spectro.. [whats it called!!] to reveal all [Exciting :-)]. I guess i am going to learn a new lesson on whether or not one can distinguish metal types and makeup without a microscope.

                                    --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, David Patterson <odd_kins@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Still looks like cast steel to me. I prefer using hss to carbide for lathe work regardless of the material(steel, iron, aluminum or correr alloys) I can machine at home. The shrinkage of the casting was 3/16 per foot, iron will not shrink that much. I like your lathe, I need a bigger/stronger one than the grizzly I got now.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Dave Patterson
                                    > odd_kins@...
                                    > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                    >
                                    > --- On Fri, 12/9/11, ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...>
                                    > Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                                    > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Date: Friday, December 9, 2011, 4:27 PM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Dave
                                    >
                                    > The mold was made from green sand and was rammed very softly. I made a video machining it in my lathe http://youtu.be/R6tIhaM2We0 It looks like cast iron when the tool cuts it also the tool is high speed steel, I did not use a carbide tip.
                                    >
                                    > Ernie
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • Carlos Contreras
                                    Hi Every body.   Probably the quick and cheapest way to know if is a gry iron or High Carbon Steel (or Wite iron too), is polishing a small part of metal
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Dec 20, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi Every body.
                                       
                                      Probably the quick and cheapest way to know if is a gry iron or High Carbon Steel (or Wite iron too), is polishing a small part of metal obtained and see at Microscope.. We need only 100X.
                                       
                                      If is gray iron we will see the "flakes", of Free carbon or graphite in the microstructure.
                                       
                                      if is steel we will not see any flake of graphite. just metal.
                                       
                                      All the best
                                       


                                      --- El mar 20-dic-11, sparky_blz <sparky_blz@...> escribió:


                                      De: sparky_blz <sparky_blz@...>
                                      Asunto: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                                      A: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                      Fecha: martes, 20 de diciembre de 2011, 13:11



                                       



                                      I am relatively new to this field, but i have to say, after seeing the videos the first thought that came to my mind was high-carbon steel, can't wait for the spectro.. [whats it called!!] to reveal all [Exciting :-)]. I guess i am going to learn a new lesson on whether or not one can distinguish metal types and makeup without a microscope.

                                      --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, David Patterson <odd_kins@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Still looks like cast steel to me. I prefer using hss to carbide for lathe work regardless of the material(steel, iron, aluminum or correr alloys) I can machine at home. The shrinkage of the casting was 3/16 per foot, iron will not shrink that much. I like your lathe, I need a bigger/stronger one than the grizzly I got now.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Dave Patterson
                                      > odd_kins@...
                                      > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                      >
                                      > --- On Fri, 12/9/11, ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...>
                                      > Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Changing steel into cast iron
                                      > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Friday, December 9, 2011, 4:27 PM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Dave
                                      >
                                      > The mold was made from green sand and was rammed very softly. I made a video machining it in my lathe http://youtu.be/R6tIhaM2We0 It looks like cast iron when the tool cuts it also the tool is high speed steel, I did not use a carbide tip.
                                      >
                                      > Ernie
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >








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