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Re: [hobbicast] Thoughts on refractory

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  • michael.a.porter@comcast.net
    Malcom brought up the fact that fast setting cement is better than Portland cement (actually, some fast setting cement uses Portland cement; you want the kind
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 14, 2011
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      Malcom brought up the fact that fast setting cement is better than Portland cement (actually, some fast setting cement uses Portland cement; you want the kind that uses calcium alumina, like Rapid Set).
      Mikey

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: CaptonZap@...
      To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 00:15:26 -0000 (UTC)
      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Thoughts on refractory

















      In a message dated 1/13/2011 10:19:29 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
      DonMatthews@... writes:



      1 - A recipe I have gathered calls for a 3-2-1 mix of sand, portland


      cement, and fire-clay. Knowing that cement will breakdown and flux the other


      ingredients, does anyone have a suggestion on this recipe? I was thinking of


      modifying it to 3 parts fire-clay, 2 parts sand, and 1 part portland


      cement...just enough portland to hold everything together until it has dried.



      ==========Reply====================



      You don't say where you are located, but most major cities have


      construction supply houses that sell cement. Ask them for Cement Fondue.


      The last time I priced it, it was about $60.00 for an eighty pound bag.


      It sounds to me that you will have to pay more for the shipping than you


      are for the refractory mix, if your quote can be believed.


      Good luck, CZ



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Don Matthews
      Mikey, Thanks for the clarification. I wasn t aware of the differences. -- In His Grace and With Gratitude, -DON-
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 14, 2011
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        Mikey,

        Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware of the differences.

        --
        In His Grace and
        With Gratitude,

        -DON-
      • michael.a.porter@comcast.net
        Don, The difference, as Malcom was pointing out, is huge. Calcium alumina is one of the main refractory cements. Modified sulfur has been used to make cement
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 14, 2011
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          Don,
          The difference, as Malcom was pointing out, is huge. Calcium alumina is one of the main refractory cements. Modified sulfur has been used to make cement of all kinds quick setting since the sixties. Portland cement is problematic, because calcining (heating the refractory up until it vitrifies) will not expel molecular bonded water from it. The end product then has water locked within it, ready to make steam over and over until the steam finally escapes by cracking the refractory. Guys have been using Portland cement along with clay in order to make an end run around the steam trouble, with varying success.

          What Malcom was showing, is a simple high quality answer to the whole problem. I thought his idea was brilliant, and decided to adopt it for one of my books. Naturally that called for a little extra research to CYA. I still have to build some furnace parts in the coffee-can size with it, to double check, but his idea (make that IDEA), could well constitute the most practical home refractory base I've heard of in ten years. You just need to use a product that is calcium alumina base, like Rapid Set Cement, instead of a Portland cement based product like Quickcrete. By the way, Rapid Set Cement is rated to 2700 degrees; a quite respectable figure.
          Mikey

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Don Matthews <DonMatthews@...>
          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:29:21 -0000 (UTC)
          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Thoughts on refractory





















          Mikey,



          Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware of the differences.



          --


          In His Grace and


          With Gratitude,



          -DON-










          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Don
          Mikey, Your information is invaluable. I did research the differences in the rapid-setting concretes available in my area and found from their MSDS sheets, as
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 14, 2011
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            Mikey,

            Your information is invaluable. I did research the differences in the rapid-setting concretes available in my area and found from their MSDS sheets, as you've indicated, the Quickcrete(r) products are comprised mainly of portland cement and sand whereas the Sakrete(r) products are silicate and aluminate based products with no indication of portland cement being in their mix.

            And for about $18 for a 45lb bag, not a bad price point either!

            -DON-

            --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, michael.a.porter@... wrote:
            >
            > Don,
            > The difference, as Malcom was pointing out, is huge. Calcium alumina is one of the main refractory cements. Modified sulfur has been used to make cement of all kinds quick setting since the sixties. Portland cement is problematic, because calcining (heating the refractory up until it vitrifies) will not expel molecular bonded water from it. The end product then has water locked within it, ready to make steam over and over until the steam finally escapes by cracking the refractory. Guys have been using Portland cement along with clay in order to make an end run around the steam trouble, with varying success.
            >
            > What Malcom was showing, is a simple high quality answer to the whole problem. I thought his idea was brilliant, and decided to adopt it for one of my books. Naturally that called for a little extra research to CYA. I still have to build some furnace parts in the coffee-can size with it, to double check, but his idea (make that IDEA), could well constitute the most practical home refractory base I've heard of in ten years. You just need to use a product that is calcium alumina base, like Rapid Set Cement, instead of a Portland cement based product like Quickcrete. By the way, Rapid Set Cement is rated to 2700 degrees; a quite respectable figure.
            > Mikey
          • postello@msu.edu
            I used half perlite, half red pottery clay (by volume).  It works for an aluminum furnace. ...   Silence is Golden, Duct Tape is Silver. [Non-text portions
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 15, 2011
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              I used half perlite, half red pottery clay (by volume).  It works for an aluminum furnace.

              >Quoting michael.a.porter@...:

              > Don,
              > The difference, as Malcom was pointing out, is huge. Calcium alumina
              > is one of the main refractory cements. Modified sulfur has been used
              > to make cement of all kinds quick setting since the sixties. Portland
              > cement is problematic, because calcining (heating the refractory up
              > until it vitrifies) will not expel molecular bonded water from it.
              > The end product then has water locked within it, ready to make steam
              > over and over until the steam finally escapes by cracking the
              > refractory. Guys have been using Portland cement along with clay in
              > order to make an end run around the steam trouble, with varying
              > success.
              >
              > What Malcom was showing, is a simple high quality answer to the whole
              > problem. I thought his idea was brilliant, and decided to adopt it
              > for one of my books. Naturally that called for a little extra
              > research to CYA. I still have to build some furnace parts in the
              > coffee-can size with it, to double check, but his idea (make that
              > IDEA), could well constitute the most practical home refractory base
              > I've heard of in ten years. You just need to use a product that is
              > calcium alumina base, like Rapid Set Cement, instead of a Portland
              > cement based product like Quickcrete. By the way, Rapid Set Cement is
              > rated to 2700 degrees; a quite respectable figure.
              > Mikey
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Don Matthews <DonMatthews@...>
              > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:29:21 -0000 (UTC)
              > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Thoughts on refractory
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              > Mikey,
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              > Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware of the differences.
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              > --
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              > In His Grace and
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              > With Gratitude,
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              > -DON-
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              Silence is Golden, Duct Tape is Silver.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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