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cast iron from steel

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  • ferrman1001
    Just recently I had a look inside a commercial iron foundry and I discovered that they used scrap steel to make cast iron, is it possible to do the same
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 2, 2010
      Just recently I had a look inside a commercial iron foundry and I discovered that they used scrap steel to make cast iron, is it possible to do the same procedure with a backyard crucible furnace?

      Ernie.
    • Rupert
      Hello Ernie, A cupola will add the carbon to the iron easily to turn it into cast iron. I m not sure what happens to any other alloying elements that might be
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 2, 2010
        Hello Ernie,
        A cupola will add the carbon to the iron easily to turn it into cast
        iron. I'm not sure what happens to any other alloying elements that
        might be in the steel. Some get burned off.
        The carbon content can be changed in a crucible furnace by adding
        carbon to the charge and using a slightly reducing flame. It would be
        best to use a covered crucible though. The question arises- how much
        carbon to add to the charge to get the carbon content you want in the
        casting.
        I usually add a little plumbago or high grade charcoal (carbon) to my
        melts to try to replace any carbon that got burned off in the melting
        process.

        Rupert

        On 12/2/2010 8:39 PM, ferrman1001 wrote:
        > Just recently I had a look inside a commercial iron foundry and I
        > discovered that they used scrap steel to make cast iron, is it
        > possible to do the same procedure with a backyard crucible furnace?
        >
        > Ernie.
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues this list does not
        > accept attachments.
        >
        > Files area and list services are at:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
        >
        > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions check out
        > these two affiliated sites: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
        >
        > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
        > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
        >
        > List Owner: owly@...
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >

        --

        yvt

        Rupert Wenig
        Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

        email: rwenig2@...

        http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/
      • hillwizard2@aol.com
        Hi Ernie All foundries look for the cheapest source of raw material that will meet their needs, Sometimes this is scrap. when using scrap iron after it has
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 2, 2010
          Hi Ernie

          All foundries look for the cheapest source of raw material that will meet
          their needs, Sometimes this is scrap. when using scrap iron after it has
          reach pouring temperature, it is held their for a time to boil off several
          metals like lead, these are collected and disposed of

          If your furnace is hot enough you can melt scrap steal but because you do
          not know what is in it, It may not work as you have planned.


          Mike the Hillwizard


          "The mother of stupidity is always pregnant."


          In a message dated 12/2/2010 9:20:41 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
          ferrman1001@... writes:

          Just recently I had a look inside a commercial iron foundry and I
          discovered that they used scrap steel to make cast iron, is it possible to do the
          same procedure with a backyard crucible furnace?

          Ernie.





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Carlos Contreras
          Hi   The main diference betwen Iron casting (gray iron), and Steel is the carbon and silicon content, Iron is around 3.5% carbon and 2.1% silicon, while
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 3, 2010
            Hi
             
            The main diference betwen Iron casting (gray iron), and Steel is the carbon and silicon content, Iron is around 3.5% carbon and 2.1% silicon, while comercial caron steel (unalloyed) is 0.10 to 0.30% carbon and 0.6% silicon.
             
            so produce gray iron from 100% steel will be expesive to the silicon and carbon adicion needs.
            The commercial foundrys, use up to 30% steel scrap in their metalic charges but other reazons (and economy too).
             
            So answering your question I think you can use up to 15% carbon steel scrap (called 1018, 0r 1010 (0.10 to 0.2 % carbon), but the scarp moust be very thin (up to 3/8 thikness in small pieces), and you have to add at the begining of the melting enough carbon and silicon (graphite ad Ferrosilicon), to raise the carbon and silicon content of the steel. and add the steel after the iron is melted, (the iron melted will hel to "disolve the steel scrap).
            The melting point of the carbon steel is 1520 celcius while Gray iron casting is around 1260 celcius, so you furnace (burner), need to be hot enough.
             
            all the Best (apologies for my English), hoppe I explained correctly the point (chemical and temperature melting point differences)
             


            --- El vie 3-dic-10, ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...> escribió:


            De: ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...>
            Asunto: [hobbicast] cast iron from steel
            A: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
            Fecha: viernes, 3 de diciembre de 2010, 3:39


             



            Just recently I had a look inside a commercial iron foundry and I discovered that they used scrap steel to make cast iron, is it possible to do the same procedure with a backyard crucible furnace?

            Ernie.











            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Scott Trostel
            The scrap pile was either iron or they also pour steel  Too many problems with a broad variety of elements that love to cling to iron.  Some include
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 3, 2010
              The scrap pile was either iron or they also pour steel  Too many problems with a broad variety of elements that love to cling to iron.  Some include manganese, sulphur, chromium, moly, and so on. 

              Scott

              --- On Fri, 12/3/10, Carlos Contreras <maximo64@...> wrote:

              From: Carlos Contreras <maximo64@...>
              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] cast iron from steel
              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 5:32 AM







               









              Hi

               

              The main diference betwen Iron casting (gray iron), and Steel is the carbon and silicon content, Iron is around 3.5% carbon and 2.1% silicon, while comercial caron steel (unalloyed) is 0.10 to 0.30% carbon and 0.6% silicon.

               

              so produce gray iron from 100% steel will be expesive to the silicon and carbon adicion needs.

              The commercial foundrys, use up to 30% steel scrap in their metalic charges but other reazons (and economy too).

               

              So answering your question I think you can use up to 15% carbon steel scrap (called 1018, 0r 1010 (0.10 to 0.2 % carbon), but the scarp moust be very thin (up to 3/8 thikness in small pieces), and you have to add at the begining of the melting enough carbon and silicon (graphite ad Ferrosilicon), to raise the carbon and silicon content of the steel. and add the steel after the iron is melted, (the iron melted will hel to "disolve the steel scrap).

              The melting point of the carbon steel is 1520 celcius while Gray iron casting is around 1260 celcius, so you furnace (burner), need to be hot enough.

               

              all the Best (apologies for my English), hoppe I explained correctly the point (chemical and temperature melting point differences)

               



              --- El vie 3-dic-10, ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...> escribió:



              De: ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...>

              Asunto: [hobbicast] cast iron from steel

              A: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com

              Fecha: viernes, 3 de diciembre de 2010, 3:39



               



              Just recently I had a look inside a commercial iron foundry and I discovered that they used scrap steel to make cast iron, is it possible to do the same procedure with a backyard crucible furnace?



              Ernie.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • david allen
              possible yes, economicly I would think not steel takes a lot more heat to melt than cast iron. ________________________________ From: Rupert
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 3, 2010
                possible yes, economicly I would think not steel takes a lot more heat to melt
                than cast iron.


                ________________________________
                From: Rupert <rwenig2@...>
                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 10:33:16 PM
                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] cast iron from steel

                 
                Hello Ernie,
                A cupola will add the carbon to the iron easily to turn it into cast
                iron. I'm not sure what happens to any other alloying elements that
                might be in the steel. Some get burned off.
                The carbon content can be changed in a crucible furnace by adding
                carbon to the charge and using a slightly reducing flame. It would be
                best to use a covered crucible though. The question arises- how much
                carbon to add to the charge to get the carbon content you want in the
                casting.
                I usually add a little plumbago or high grade charcoal (carbon) to my
                melts to try to replace any carbon that got burned off in the melting
                process.

                Rupert

                On 12/2/2010 8:39 PM, ferrman1001 wrote:
                > Just recently I had a look inside a commercial iron foundry and I
                > discovered that they used scrap steel to make cast iron, is it
                > possible to do the same procedure with a backyard crucible furnace?
                >
                > Ernie.
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues this list does not
                > accept attachments.
                >
                > Files area and list services are at:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                >
                > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions check out
                > these two affiliated sites: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                >
                > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                >
                > List Owner: owly@...
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >

                --

                yvt

                Rupert Wenig
                Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

                email: rwenig2@...

                http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • jarhead_h
                I m interested in this as well. I have lots of free(read AFFORDABLE)scrap steel on hand, more so than any other metal. I want to make a gingery lathe out of
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 3, 2010
                  I'm interested in this as well. I have lots of free(read AFFORDABLE)scrap steel on hand, more so than any other metal. I want to make a gingery lathe out of iron, but steel will do if need be. Planning a natural gas burner, to be later upgraded to waste oil.


                  --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, david allen <superdave257@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > possible yes, economicly I would think not steel takes a lot more heat to melt
                  > than cast iron.
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Rupert <rwenig2@...>
                  > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 10:33:16 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] cast iron from steel
                  >
                  >  
                  > Hello Ernie,
                  > A cupola will add the carbon to the iron easily to turn it into cast
                  > iron. I'm not sure what happens to any other alloying elements that
                  > might be in the steel. Some get burned off.
                  > The carbon content can be changed in a crucible furnace by adding
                  > carbon to the charge and using a slightly reducing flame. It would be
                  > best to use a covered crucible though. The question arises- how much
                  > carbon to add to the charge to get the carbon content you want in the
                  > casting.
                  > I usually add a little plumbago or high grade charcoal (carbon) to my
                  > melts to try to replace any carbon that got burned off in the melting
                  > process.
                  >
                  > Rupert
                  >
                  > On 12/2/2010 8:39 PM, ferrman1001 wrote:
                  > > Just recently I had a look inside a commercial iron foundry and I
                  > > discovered that they used scrap steel to make cast iron, is it
                  > > possible to do the same procedure with a backyard crucible furnace?
                  > >
                  > > Ernie.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues this list does not
                  > > accept attachments.
                  > >
                  > > Files area and list services are at:
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                  > >
                  > > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions check out
                  > > these two affiliated sites: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                  > >
                  > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                  > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                  > >
                  > > List Owner: owly@...
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > --
                  >
                  > yvt
                  >
                  > Rupert Wenig
                  > Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
                  >
                  > email: rwenig2@...
                  >
                  > http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • oldstudentmsgt
                  Carlos, you re doing better in English than I do in Spanish after over 40 years of study. Soy hablo espanol un poquito, pero no tengo gramatica! ;) I ve also
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 4, 2010
                    Carlos, you're doing better in English than I do in Spanish after over 40 years of study. Soy hablo espanol un poquito, pero no tengo gramatica! ;) I've also got a US only keyboard, so the "enye" character is very hard to do.

                    I know there was more carbon in the iron than in steel, but not how much, and didn't realize the silicon was different, also. Gracias, amigo!

                    Bill in OKC (Gille, or Guillermo)

                    --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Carlos Contreras <maximo64@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi
                    >  
                    > The main diference betwen Iron casting (gray iron), and Steel is the carbon and silicon content, Iron is around 3.5% carbon and 2.1% silicon, while comercial caron steel (unalloyed) is 0.10 to 0.30% carbon and 0.6% silicon.
                    >  
                    > so produce gray iron from 100% steel will be expesive to the silicon and carbon adicion needs.
                    > The commercial foundrys, use up to 30% steel scrap in their metalic charges but other reazons (and economy too).
                    >  
                    > So answering your question I think you can use up to 15% carbon steel scrap (called 1018, 0r 1010 (0.10 to 0.2 % carbon), but the scarp moust be very thin (up to 3/8 thikness in small pieces), and you have to add at the begining of the melting enough carbon and silicon (graphite ad Ferrosilicon), to raise the carbon and silicon content of the steel. and add the steel after the iron is melted, (the iron melted will hel to "disolve the steel scrap).
                    > The melting point of the carbon steel is 1520 celcius while Gray iron casting is around 1260 celcius, so you furnace (burner), need to be hot enough.
                    >  
                    > all the Best (apologies for my English), hoppe I explained correctly the point (chemical and temperature melting point differences)
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    > --- El vie 3-dic-10, ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...> escribió:
                    >
                    >
                    > De: ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...>
                    > Asunto: [hobbicast] cast iron from steel
                    > A: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                    > Fecha: viernes, 3 de diciembre de 2010, 3:39
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Just recently I had a look inside a commercial iron foundry and I discovered that they used scrap steel to make cast iron, is it possible to do the same procedure with a backyard crucible furnace?
                    >
                    > Ernie.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • ferrman1001
                    carlos The foundry I visited used 100% steel and put the carbon in the bottom of the
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 5, 2010
                      carlos The foundry I visited used 100% steel and put the carbon in the bottom of the crucible so when the steel melted it would run to the bottom and absorb the carbon. If a commercial foundry uses 100% steel it should be possible to do it in a crucible furnace.

                      Ernie
                    • Carlos Contreras
                      Hi Ernie   We need to know the type of furnace that this commercial Foundry are using, If is an Electrical coreless Induction furnace, then is possible to use
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 6, 2010
                        Hi Ernie
                         
                        We need to know the type of furnace that this commercial Foundry are using, If is an Electrical coreless Induction furnace, then is possible to use 100% steel, the commercial foundry`s do that, specialy when they are producing ductile iron,.(gray iron very low sulfur treated with magnesium alloys).
                         
                        So backing to the point, the Induction furnaces (electric), have a very good agitation in the metal, and that keeps the liquid metal moving all the time, that`s the principal reazon that the steel can absorb the carbon up to 3.3 - 3.6%.
                         
                        In a normal crucible, with gas or oil burner, the liquid metal is static. (doesn´t have agitation), then,  the absorcion of carbon from the graphite added, will be very difficult.
                         
                        If some one make the trial and show us the results and pictures will be fantastic, but during the trial 2 thinks moust be care:
                         
                        - the temperature that teh furnace can reach (remember steel melting point is 1510 celcius aprox).
                        - the agitation of the metal in order to help the carbon absorcion
                         
                        for 120 Lb of steel we have to add 4.2 punds (aprox), of a good graphite (90% fix carbon minimun). this graphite volume is quite big for small crucible.
                         
                        But as I said some one have the try if have a crucible furnace hot enogh.
                         
                        All the Best.
                         

                        --- El dom 5-dic-10, ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...> escribió:

                        De: ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...>
                        Asunto: [hobbicast] re: cast iron from steel
                        A: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                        Fecha: domingo, 5 de diciembre de 2010, 23:51






                        carlos The foundry I visited used 100% steel and put the carbon in the bottom of the crucible so when the steel melted it would run to the bottom and absorb the carbon. If a commercial foundry uses 100% steel it should be possible to do it in a crucible furnace.

                        Ernie











                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • ferrman1001
                        carlos The furnace they used was a corelees induction furnace and I could see that the molten cast iron was being stirred by the magnetic field ernie
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 7, 2010
                          carlos

                          The furnace they used was a corelees induction furnace and I could see that the molten cast iron was being stirred by the magnetic field

                          ernie
                        • ferrman1001
                          rupert just how much carbon do you add to replace what is burned out during melting? For a 10 Lbs melt what is the amount you use? Thank you for your help.
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 7, 2010
                            rupert

                            just how much carbon do you add to replace what is burned out during melting? For a 10 Lbs melt what is the amount you use? Thank you for your help.

                            Ernie
                          • Rupert
                            Hello Ernie, I put about 2 tablespoons of crushed high grade charcoal in the crucible at the beginning of the melt. The iron absorbs what it will. There is
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 7, 2010
                              Hello Ernie,
                              I put about 2 tablespoons of crushed high grade charcoal in the
                              crucible at the beginning of the melt. The iron absorbs what it will.
                              There is always some left over when I clean out the crucible so I am
                              adding too much. My crucible is a #8 so that would be about 25# of cast
                              iron when it's full.
                              By high grade charcoal I mean charcoal from oak or hickory or similar
                              woods. I usually make my own. BBQ charcoal will work too but not the
                              briquettes. The briquettes have too much other stuff in them.

                              Rupert

                              On 12/7/2010 4:59 PM, ferrman1001 wrote:
                              > rupert
                              >
                              > just how much carbon do you add to replace what is burned out during melting? For a 10 Lbs melt what is the amount you use? Thank you for your help.
                              >
                              > Ernie
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                              > this list does not accept attachments.
                              >
                              > Files area and list services are at:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                              >
                              > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                              > check out these two affiliated sites:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                              >
                              > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                              > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                              >
                              > List Owner:
                              > owly@...
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              --

                              yvt

                              Rupert Wenig
                              Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

                              email: rwenig2@...

                              http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/
                            • ferrman1001
                              Rupert Thank you for helping me. I will try that the next time I melt cast iron. I have a 9 cupola and used 5% steel 95% cast iron and it worked really well.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
                                Rupert

                                Thank you for helping me. I will try that the next time I melt cast iron. I have a 9" cupola and used 5% steel 95% cast iron and it worked really well. The steel improves the tensile strengh of cast iron. I have heard that using 100% steel charges in the cupola can cause problems so I am not confident in trying that, maybe someone has done it. Please let me know.

                                Ernie.
                              • Carlos Contreras
                                Hi Ernie,   I will try to melt cast iron with WOV burner, but just in case it fail, can you give the general dimensions of your 9 cupola.?, what cain of
                                Message 15 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
                                  Hi Ernie,
                                   
                                  I will try to melt cast iron with WOV burner, but just in case it fail, can you give the general dimensions of your 9" cupola.?, what cain of blower are you using.
                                   
                                  All the Best, and Thanks in advance for your coments

                                  --- El mié 8-dic-10, ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...> escribió:


                                  De: ferrman1001 <ferrman1001@...>
                                  Asunto: [hobbicast] Re: cast iron from steel
                                  A: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                  Fecha: miércoles, 8 de diciembre de 2010, 23:29


                                   



                                  Rupert

                                  Thank you for helping me. I will try that the next time I melt cast iron. I have a 9" cupola and used 5% steel 95% cast iron and it worked really well. The steel improves the tensile strengh of cast iron. I have heard that using 100% steel charges in the cupola can cause problems so I am not confident in trying that, maybe someone has done it. Please let me know.

                                  Ernie.











                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Rupert
                                  Hello Ernie, I ve been told that the result of melting steel or malleable iron in a cupola is still cast iron. I understand that the additives in the steel get
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
                                    Hello Ernie,
                                    I've been told that the result of melting steel or malleable iron in a
                                    cupola is still cast iron. I understand that the additives in the steel
                                    get burned off or carried off in the slag but could be wrong.
                                    It might be an idea to post this question on the cupola group to see
                                    what they have to say.
                                    Wish I had a cupola myself but metallurgical coal or good coke is too
                                    expensive for my budget. Petroleum coke has too much sulfur in it for
                                    use in a cupola.

                                    Rupert

                                    On 12/8/2010 4:29 PM, ferrman1001 wrote:
                                    > Rupert
                                    >
                                    > Thank you for helping me. I will try that the next time I melt cast
                                    > iron. I have a 9" cupola and used 5% steel 95% cast iron and it
                                    > worked really well. The steel improves the tensile strengh of cast
                                    > iron. I have heard that using 100% steel charges in the cupola can
                                    > cause problems so I am not confident in trying that, maybe someone
                                    > has done it. Please let me know.
                                    >
                                    > Ernie.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues this list does not
                                    > accept attachments.
                                    >
                                    > Files area and list services are at:
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                                    >
                                    > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions check out
                                    > these two affiliated sites: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                                    >
                                    > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                    > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                    >
                                    > List Owner: owly@...
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >

                                    --

                                    yvt

                                    Rupert Wenig
                                    Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

                                    email: rwenig2@...

                                    http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/
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