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Re: [hobbicast] [off?] CNC Machine Running

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  • Jeshua Lacock
    ... True - that is why I went with belt drive. But I don t know what else could be causing it to wobble. I was thinking maybe if I gear down my servo more it
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 31, 2010
      On Jan 31, 2010, at 6:39 PM, Ron Thompson wrote:

      > I wouldn't be too quick to abandon belt drive, it is much faster than
      > lead screws.

      True - that is why I went with belt drive. But I don't know what else
      could be causing it to wobble. I was thinking maybe if I gear down my
      servo more it might help...

      Rack and pinion has the advantage of being both fast and rigid.

      > I use belts on x and y, my z is rack and pinion. I considered changing
      > the z to screw because the rack and pinion won't hold the head up with
      > power off.

      Yes - that why I went with ball screw on the Z ( I would hate to see
      my router drop 2 feet!)

      I was surprised how reasonable the prices of ball screws are at Roton:

      http://roton.com/ballscrews-ballnuts-nav.aspx?line=Recirculating

      Beautiful product, amazing price...


      Cheers,

      Jeshua Lacock, Owner
      <http://OpenOSX.com>
      phone: 208.462.4171
    • Ron Thompson
      Thanks for the link, I ll be sure to check it out. Do you have dual belts on the x axis? I used two and two steppers slaved together, no racking of the y axis.
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 31, 2010
        Thanks for the link, I'll be sure to check it out.

        Do you have dual belts on the x axis? I used two and two steppers slaved
        together, no racking of the y axis.

        I use mach3 to drive the steppers, so slaving was easy.

        On 1/31/2010 8:46 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > On Jan 31, 2010, at 6:39 PM, Ron Thompson wrote:
        >
        > > I wouldn't be too quick to abandon belt drive, it is much faster than
        > > lead screws.
        >
        > True - that is why I went with belt drive. But I don't know what else
        > could be causing it to wobble. I was thinking maybe if I gear down my
        > servo more it might help...
        >
        > Rack and pinion has the advantage of being both fast and rigid.
        >
        > > I use belts on x and y, my z is rack and pinion. I considered changing
        > > the z to screw because the rack and pinion won't hold the head up with
        > > power off.
        >
        > Yes - that why I went with ball screw on the Z ( I would hate to see
        > my router drop 2 feet!)
        >
        > I was surprised how reasonable the prices of ball screws are at Roton:
        >
        > http://roton.com/ballscrews-ballnuts-nav.aspx?line=Recirculating
        > <http://roton.com/ballscrews-ballnuts-nav.aspx?line=Recirculating>
        >
        > Beautiful product, amazing price...
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
        > <http://OpenOSX.com <http://OpenOSX.com>>
        > phone: 208.462.4171
        >
        >


        --


        Ron Thompson Riding my '07 XL883C Sportster
        On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space
        Center, USA

        http://www.plansandprojects.com My hobby pages are here:
        http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/

        Visit the castinghobby FAQ:
        http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/

        Add yourself to the member map here:
        http://www.frappr.com/castinghobby

        Want to have some fun? The next time you're at McDonald's, wait until
        the kid has your change ready and then say "Wait, I've got the two cents."
        -Ron Thompson
      • Jeshua Lacock
        ... No - I have two belts on the Y, but only one belt on the X. Interesting thought - might be worth trying. ... Cool. For my dual belts on the Y, I am using
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 31, 2010
          On Jan 31, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Ron Thompson wrote:

          > Do you have dual belts on the x axis? I used two and two steppers
          > slaved
          > together, no racking of the y axis.

          No - I have two belts on the Y, but only one belt on the X.

          Interesting thought - might be worth trying.

          > I use mach3 to drive the steppers, so slaving was easy.


          Cool. For my dual belts on the Y, I am using one servo (2 horsepower
          geared down 2:1!) connected to a drive shaft that drives both belts.

          Makes for a cost effective solution - one servo, one controller, one
          power supply....


          Best,

          Jeshua Lacock, Owner
          <http://OpenOSX.com>
          phone: 208.462.4171
        • Todd
          Jeshua, nice work! I ve been working on a Gingery Lathe for about 4 months w/o nearly the progress to show for it :o). Q: What is the 3D visualization/CAD
          Message 4 of 17 , Feb 1, 2010
            Jeshua, nice work! I've been working on a Gingery Lathe for about 4
            months w/o nearly the progress to show for it :o).

            Q: What is the 3D visualization/CAD software that you show in the first
            part of your demo?

            Q: You mention in the thread that you used pycam. Could you elaborate on
            your CAD tool chain...and how well it's working for you? I've been using
            QCad...but it's a 2D only option...though somehow they have an
            additional GCode module, too.

            Q: You mention using the Roton ballscrews/nuts for your z axis... have
            you needed a brake? I ask b/c the Roton site claims that the translation
            of force to rotation is so efficient that their devices cannot be
            counted on to self-brake.

            Q: What linear motion system are you using, and what are it's
            performance characteristics (flatness, deflection, etc.)?

            My plan is to build the Gingery series and then start on a CNC...
            probably very similar to yours. At my current rate, I should be starting
            that project in about 2-5 years :o).

            -Todd

            On 1/31/10 7:25 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote:
            >
            > On Jan 31, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Ron Thompson wrote:
            >
            >> Do you have dual belts on the x axis? I used two and two steppers
            >> slaved
            >> together, no racking of the y axis.
            >
            > No - I have two belts on the Y, but only one belt on the X.
            >
            > Interesting thought - might be worth trying.
            >
            >> I use mach3 to drive the steppers, so slaving was easy.
            >
            >
            > Cool. For my dual belts on the Y, I am using one servo (2 horsepower
            > geared down 2:1!) connected to a drive shaft that drives both belts.
            >
            > Makes for a cost effective solution - one servo, one controller, one
            > power supply....
            >
            >
            > Best,
            >
            > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
            > <http://OpenOSX.com>
            > phone: 208.462.4171
            >
            >
          • Ron Thompson
            In 2-5 years you can buy a cnc router at Wal-mart. ... -- Ron Thompson Riding my 07 XL883C Sportster On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the
            Message 5 of 17 , Feb 1, 2010
              In 2-5 years you can buy a cnc router at Wal-mart.

              On 2/1/2010 10:39 AM, Todd wrote:
              >
              >
              > Jeshua, nice work! I've been working on a Gingery Lathe for about 4
              > months w/o nearly the progress to show for it :o).
              >
              > Q: What is the 3D visualization/CAD software that you show in the first
              > part of your demo?
              >
              > Q: You mention in the thread that you used pycam. Could you elaborate on
              > your CAD tool chain...and how well it's working for you? I've been using
              > QCad...but it's a 2D only option...though somehow they have an
              > additional GCode module, too.
              >
              > Q: You mention using the Roton ballscrews/nuts for your z axis... have
              > you needed a brake? I ask b/c the Roton site claims that the translation
              > of force to rotation is so efficient that their devices cannot be
              > counted on to self-brake.
              >
              > Q: What linear motion system are you using, and what are it's
              > performance characteristics (flatness, deflection, etc.)?
              >
              > My plan is to build the Gingery series and then start on a CNC...
              > probably very similar to yours. At my current rate, I should be starting
              > that project in about 2-5 years :o).
              >
              > -Todd
              >
              > On 1/31/10 7:25 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote:
              > >
              > > On Jan 31, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Ron Thompson wrote:
              > >
              > >> Do you have dual belts on the x axis? I used two and two steppers
              > >> slaved
              > >> together, no racking of the y axis.
              > >
              > > No - I have two belts on the Y, but only one belt on the X.
              > >
              > > Interesting thought - might be worth trying.
              > >
              > >> I use mach3 to drive the steppers, so slaving was easy.
              > >
              > >
              > > Cool. For my dual belts on the Y, I am using one servo (2 horsepower
              > > geared down 2:1!) connected to a drive shaft that drives both belts.
              > >
              > > Makes for a cost effective solution - one servo, one controller, one
              > > power supply....
              > >
              > >
              > > Best,
              > >
              > > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
              > > <http://OpenOSX.com <http://OpenOSX.com>>
              > > phone: 208.462.4171
              > >
              > >
              >
              >


              --


              Ron Thompson Riding my '07 XL883C Sportster
              On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space
              Center, USA

              http://www.plansandprojects.com My hobby pages are here:
              http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/

              Visit the castinghobby FAQ:
              http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/

              Add yourself to the member map here:
              http://www.frappr.com/castinghobby

              Want to have some fun? The next time you're at McDonald's, wait until
              the kid has your change ready and then say "Wait, I've got the two cents."
              -Ron Thompson
            • Joseph Feldmann
              ... ????????????? Yvan Wolvesbane Pacifist ...with occasional lapses. ________________________________ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 17 , Feb 1, 2010
                >Ron Thompson sent: In 2-5 years you can buy a cnc router at Wal-mart.

                ?????????????

                Yvan Wolvesbane
                Pacifist ...with occasional lapses.




                ________________________________




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • postello@msu.edu
                 You can get a few pieces run at 100kgarages, too, if you don t have enough work to kepp your own CNC busy. -- ... [Non-text portions of this message have
                Message 7 of 17 , Feb 1, 2010
                   You can get a few pieces run at 100kgarages, too, if you don't have enough work to kepp your own CNC busy.

                  --
                  "All that is artificial, is also natural." René Descartes 1644 Quoting Joseph Feldmann <yvanwolvesbane222@...>:

                  >> Ron Thompson sent: In 2-5 years you can buy a cnc router at Wal-mart.
                  >
                  > ?????????????
                  >
                  >  Yvan Wolvesbane
                  > Pacifist  ...with occasional lapses.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jeshua Lacock
                  ... Sounds like a great project. One of the first things I plan to do with my CNC machine is make the patterns I need to make a turntable and a lathe
                  Message 8 of 17 , Feb 1, 2010
                    On Feb 1, 2010, at 8:39 AM, Todd wrote:

                    > Jeshua, nice work! I've been working on a Gingery Lathe for about 4
                    > months w/o nearly the progress to show for it :o).

                    Sounds like a great project. One of the first things I plan to do with
                    my CNC machine is make the patterns I need to make a turntable and a
                    lathe "attachment" for the CNC machine...

                    > Q: What is the 3D visualization/CAD software that you show in the
                    > first
                    > part of your demo?

                    It is a free application called Meshlab. It is not so much for
                    modeling as it is a great 3D utility.

                    I used it to reduce the complexity of the model that the CNC machine
                    made and saved the model as a DXF as was required by Pycam.

                    > Q: You mention in the thread that you used pycam. Could you
                    > elaborate on
                    > your CAD tool chain...and how well it's working for you? I've been
                    > using
                    > QCad...but it's a 2D only option...though somehow they have an
                    > additional GCode module, too.

                    I have been evaluating Vectorworks. It will create true surfaces or
                    solids that can be used by high-end CAM software.

                    The bonus for me is that it runs natively on the Mac.

                    But for my first run, I just download a free model, reduced the
                    complexity in Meshlab (on my Mac) and saved as a DXF, then copied to
                    my Linux machine, opened the DXF in Pycam, saved the G-Code, and then
                    opened in the EMC machine controller software.

                    The cool thing is it was all done just between my Mac and my Linux
                    machine from which I can control on my Mac. So I feel right at home.

                    > Q: You mention using the Roton ballscrews/nuts for your z axis... have
                    > you needed a brake? I ask b/c the Roton site claims that the
                    > translation
                    > of force to rotation is so efficient that their devices cannot be
                    > counted on to self-brake.

                    It is so efficient that when I got the ballscrew, just the weight of
                    the ballnut would make it roll down the screw by gravity alone. It got
                    up to a pretty healthy RPM too. So I wasn't sure if I would still need
                    a break. I thought if nothing else, it would be much slower than a
                    straight drop.

                    But once I mounted it on my machine, the TDK rails with such a tight
                    tolerance was just enough friction that it does not require a break. I
                    think if it was using skate bearings instead of TDK bearings, it would
                    like still need a break. Or if my router was any heavier....

                    > Q: What linear motion system are you using, and what are it's
                    > performance characteristics (flatness, deflection, etc.)?

                    I am using a different linear system for each axis.

                    I would have liked to use TDK everywhere - but the get very spendy
                    when you need them 5 feet long.

                    For my big Y carriage I am using VXB bearings:

                    http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/20mmLinearMotionSystems/Kit8389

                    For my X, I am using a skate bearing carriage that I got from:

                    http://www.cncrouterparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=33

                    It just used a 1/4" steel plate for the guide. If I were to do it
                    again, I would use these for the Y as well. Very nice system, low
                    cost, cheap and easy to replace the bearings, and the bearings are
                    sealed. The VXB system, the bearings are essentially open.

                    And for the Z, I picked up some used TDK linear bearings on eBay.

                    As for deflection, all of the rails are mounted on very rigid
                    surfaces, so I think that would be very minimal.

                    > My plan is to build the Gingery series and then start on a CNC...
                    > probably very similar to yours. At my current rate, I should be
                    > starting
                    > that project in about 2-5 years :o).


                    Good luck! Sounds fun.


                    Best,

                    Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                    <http://OpenOSX.com>
                    phone: 208.462.4171
                  • Lance
                    Group, I have an electric kiln about 15 diam x ~ 15 tall. It is sectional with fire brick. Two sections are wired. One wire is broken, the other
                    Message 9 of 17 , Feb 7, 2010
                      Group,

                      I have an electric kiln about
                      15" diam <hex> x ~ 15" tall.
                      It is sectional with fire brick.
                      Two sections are wired. One wire is
                      broken, the other measures ~ 9 Ohms.

                      I have two old never used wires for the kiln.
                      They each read ~ 4 ohm.

                      In addition, I have a 7.5" circular electric burner
                      from a stove which has a high and a low
                      spiral. One is 44 ohm, the other 70 ohm.

                      I have several 110 and 220V outlets in the shop.

                      I could connect new wires in series for 220V use or
                      individually for separate 110V lines.
                      I could create a hollow in the hinged top
                      for the stove burner
                      and wire it for two step 220V operation.

                      The kiln is rated at 2100F

                      I plan to use the kiln for glass slump / fuse
                      small batch Al melt and steel anneal.

                      What is your recommendations
                      for connecting the new heaters?

                      Thanks
                      lance
                      ++++
                    • wheezer
                      Group, I have an electric kiln about 15 diam x ~ 15 tall. It is sectional with fire brick. Two sections are wired. One wire is broken, the other
                      Message 10 of 17 , Feb 7, 2010
                        Group,

                        I have an electric kiln about
                        15" diam <hex> x ~ 15" tall.
                        It is sectional with fire brick.
                        Two sections are wired. One wire is
                        broken, the other measures ~ 9 Ohms.

                        I have two old never used wires for the kiln.
                        They each read ~ 4 ohm.

                        In addition, I have a 7.5" circular electric burner
                        from a stove which has a high and a low
                        spiral. One is 44 ohm, the other 70 ohm.

                        I have several 110 and 220V outlets in the shop.

                        I could connect new wires in series for 220V use or
                        individually for separate 110V lines.
                        I could create a hollow in the hinged top
                        for the stove burner
                        and wire it for two step 220V operation.

                        The kiln is rated at 2100F

                        I plan to use the kiln for glass slump / fuse
                        small batch Al melt and steel anneal.

                        What is your recommendations
                        for connecting the new heaters?

                        Thanks
                        lance
                        ++++
                      • Lance
                        Group, I have an electric kiln about 15 diam x ~ 15 tall. It is sectional with fire brick. Two sections are wired. One wire is broken, the other
                        Message 11 of 17 , Feb 7, 2010
                          Group,

                          I have an electric kiln about
                          15" diam <hex> x ~ 15" tall.
                          It is sectional with fire brick.
                          Two sections are wired. One wire is
                          broken, the other measures ~ 9 Ohms.

                          I have two old never used wires for the kiln.
                          They each read ~ 4 ohm.

                          In addition, I have a 7.5" circular electric burner
                          from a stove which has a high and a low
                          spiral. One is 44 ohm, the other 70 ohm.

                          I have several 110 and 220V outlets in the shop.

                          I could connect new wires in series for 220V use or
                          individually for separate 110V lines.
                          I could create a hollow in the hinged top
                          for the stove burner
                          and wire it for two step 220V operation.

                          The kiln is rated at 2100F

                          I plan to use the kiln for glass slump / fuse
                          small batch Al melt and steel anneal.

                          What is your recommendations
                          for connecting the new heaters?

                          Thanks
                          lance
                          ++++
                        • Stone Tool
                          4 ohms is going to give you roughly a 30 amp draw... or 3600 watts. That s a sizeable draw for 120 volts. I personally would series the wires and run it on
                          Message 12 of 17 , Feb 7, 2010
                            4 ohms is going to give you roughly a 30 amp draw... or 3600 watts.
                            That's a sizeable draw for 120 volts. I personally would series the
                            wires and run it on 220.... There are few 120V outlets that are going to
                            handle 30 amps.... but 30 amps total on a series system will easily be
                            carried by most 220 outlets.

                            Howard

                            On 02/07/2010 01:10 PM, Lance wrote:
                            > Group,
                            >
                            > I have an electric kiln about
                            > 15" diam <hex> x ~ 15" tall.
                            > It is sectional with fire brick.
                            > Two sections are wired. One wire is
                            > broken, the other measures ~ 9 Ohms.
                            >
                            > I have two old never used wires for the kiln.
                            > They each read ~ 4 ohm.
                            >
                            > In addition, I have a 7.5" circular electric burner
                            > from a stove which has a high and a low
                            > spiral. One is 44 ohm, the other 70 ohm.
                            >
                            > I have several 110 and 220V outlets in the shop.
                            >
                            > I could connect new wires in series for 220V use or
                            > individually for separate 110V lines.
                            > I could create a hollow in the hinged top
                            > for the stove burner
                            > and wire it for two step 220V operation.
                            >
                            > The kiln is rated at 2100F
                            >
                            > I plan to use the kiln for glass slump / fuse
                            > small batch Al melt and steel anneal.
                            >
                            > What is your recommendations
                            > for connecting the new heaters?
                            >
                            > Thanks
                            > lance
                            > ++++
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                            > this list does not accept attachments.
                            >
                            > Files area and list services are at:
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                            >
                            > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                            > check out these two affiliated sites:
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                            >
                            > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                            > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                            >
                            > List Owner:
                            > owly@...
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Rick Sparber
                            As the element heats up, the resistance should rise. If possible, I suggest you measure the voltage across one and the current through it at the same time to
                            Message 13 of 17 , Feb 7, 2010
                              As the element heats up, the resistance should rise. If possible, I suggest
                              you measure the voltage across one and the current through it at the same
                              time to determine the draw.

                              Rick

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hobbicast@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              Of Stone Tool
                              Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 4:37 PM
                              To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] re-wiring a kiln

                              4 ohms is going to give you roughly a 30 amp draw... or 3600 watts.
                              That's a sizeable draw for 120 volts. I personally would series the
                              wires and run it on 220.... There are few 120V outlets that are going to
                              handle 30 amps.... but 30 amps total on a series system will easily be
                              carried by most 220 outlets.

                              Howard

                              On 02/07/2010 01:10 PM, Lance wrote:
                              > Group,
                              >
                              > I have an electric kiln about
                              > 15" diam <hex> x ~ 15" tall.
                              > It is sectional with fire brick.
                              > Two sections are wired. One wire is
                              > broken, the other measures ~ 9 Ohms.
                              >
                              > I have two old never used wires for the kiln.
                              > They each read ~ 4 ohm.
                              >
                              > In addition, I have a 7.5" circular electric burner
                              > from a stove which has a high and a low
                              > spiral. One is 44 ohm, the other 70 ohm.
                              >
                              > I have several 110 and 220V outlets in the shop.
                              >
                              > I could connect new wires in series for 220V use or
                              > individually for separate 110V lines.
                              > I could create a hollow in the hinged top
                              > for the stove burner
                              > and wire it for two step 220V operation.
                              >
                              > The kiln is rated at 2100F
                              >
                              > I plan to use the kiln for glass slump / fuse
                              > small batch Al melt and steel anneal.
                              >
                              > What is your recommendations
                              > for connecting the new heaters?
                              >
                              > Thanks
                              > lance
                              > ++++
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                              > this list does not accept attachments.
                              >
                              > Files area and list services are at:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                              >
                              > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                              > check out these two affiliated sites:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                              >
                              > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                              > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                              >
                              > List Owner:
                              > owly@...
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              ------------------------------------

                              For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                              this list does not accept attachments.

                              Files area and list services are at:
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

                              For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                              check out these two affiliated sites:
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                              Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                              http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

                              List Owner:
                              owly@...

                              Yahoo! Groups Links
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