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Re: [hobbicast] Spray Foam

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  • Jeshua Lacock
    ... Hi David, My point is that practically *everything* when burned will release hazardous decomposition products . I mean, what smoke is not hazardous for
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 29, 2009
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      On Sep 29, 2009, at 8:38 PM, David Patterson wrote:

      > This subject is covered about once a year. looking up and reading a
      > MSDS will save a lot of misinformation.
      > http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/pdf/msds/StyreneMSDS.pdf
      > http://www.rhhfoamsystems.com/pdf/msds_std.pdf


      Hi David,

      My point is that practically *everything* when burned will "release
      hazardous decomposition products".

      I mean, what smoke is not hazardous for your health?

      Some things burn more nasty than others, and that is why I posted my
      question.


      Best,

      Jeshua Lacock, Owner
      <http://OpenOSX.com>
      phone: 208.462.4171
    • Nick Andrews
      Burning cherry pits in pellet stoves should be fine, as they are all forced-air combustion products, usually (if installed properly) with a source of
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 1, 2009
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        Burning cherry pits in pellet stoves should be fine, as they are all
        forced-air combustion products, usually (if installed properly) with a
        source of combustion air from outside. The fan ensures positive draft, so
        all combustion products go outside.

        On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:04 PM, <postello@...> wrote:

        > Polyurethane foam is definitely nastier than polystyrene when burned, and
        > either is more toxic if it burns incompletely. In our local artprize
        > contest, http://www.artprize.org, one artist ignited a 20 foot , mainly
        > polyurethane sculpture when welding on its skeleton. No one was hurt, but
        > the sculpture was destroyed, and there were some spectacular flames and
        > smoke. Look up "The Sharing Tree" Use some common sense, don't breathe
        > smoke. Lima beans have some cyanide in them too, as do cherry pits. I know
        > someone who heats his house with cherry pits in pellet stoves.
        >
        > >Quoting "Nick Andrews" <nickjandrews@...>:
        >
        > > Well, the use of the word 'may' and the over-litigious excuse for a
        > society
        > > we live in make the warning's seriousness questionable. I would read the
        > > MSDS for the product from the manufacturer to see what they say. Then,
        > you
        > > need to analyze what you would actually be exposed to from a small amount
        > > burning in a pour. A smart person does not breathe in any smoke from
        > > melting or pouring molten metal to begin with. Isobutane is used as a
        > > cooking fuel, so that's not it, unless you get some CO, which a camp
        > stove
        > > will also produce. Hazards are often over-exaggerated under the guise of
        > > consumer protection. We won't even begin to discuss the asbestos farce.
        > As
        > > always, be as safe as you can in every activity!
        > >
        > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:36 AM, <CaptonZap@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> In a message dated 9/28/2009 10:22:49 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
        > jeshua@O
        > >>
        > >> penOSX.com writes:
        > >>
        > >> I am not sure what type of foam it actually is - the can just says:
        > >>
        > >> "Contains MDI Monomer, Polyurethane and Propane/Isobutane. If burned,
        > >> dried foam may release hazardous decomposition products".
        > >>
        > >> If it is safe to use, it could be a really cool way to make foam
        > >> copies of a mold...
        > >>
        > >> Cheers,
        > >>
        > >> Jeshua Lacock, Owner
        > >> <_http://OpenOSX.htt_ (http://openosx.com/) >
        > >> phone: 208.462.4171
        > >>
        > >> ------------------------------
        > reply-------------------------------------
        > >>
        > >> Just what part of "If burned, dried foam may release hazardous
        > >> decomposition products" do you not understand? CZ
        > >>
        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > Nick A
        > >
        > > "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
        > > single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975
        > >
        > > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
        > safety
        > > deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical
        > Review
        > > of Pennsylvania, 1759
        > >
        > > "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the
        > > streets after them." Bill Vaughan
        > >
        > > "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
        > > Plato
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        >



        --
        Nick A

        "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
        single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975

        "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
        deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review
        of Pennsylvania, 1759

        "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the
        streets after them." Bill Vaughan

        "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
        Plato


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dan Brewer
        The 2400 degree refractory insulates a lot better than the 3200 deg stuff. So with 5 ears on the furnace and several hundred melts the paint is sill on the
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 2, 2009
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          The 2400 degree refractory insulates a lot better than the 3200 deg stuff.
          So with 5 ears on the furnace and several hundred melts the paint is sill on
          the outsifde of the furnace and the inside is still usable.

          Dan in Auburn

          On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          >
          > On Sep 28, 2009, at 8:56 PM, Dan Brewer wrote:
          >
          > > You will see that Mike used two layers of refractory. One 2400 deg
          > > and one
          > > 3000 deg. . When I built my furnace I mixed perlite in a 50/50 mix
          > > for the
          > > outer layer. Then straight 2400 for the hot face. I have found that
          > > this
          > > insulated much better than the straight refractory. Perlite melts at
          > > 1800
          > > deg but having it encapsulated leaves a void and it still insulates.
          >
          > Hi dan,
          >
          > Wouldn't have been better to use 3000 for the hot face and perlite for
          > the inner layer for insulation?
          >
          > I suspect over time it will run down the side like glass.
          >
          > Best,
          >
          > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
          > <http://OpenOSX.com>
          > phone: 208.462.4171
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • abascirocco
          Suffice it to say burning any kind of foam will produce hazardous fumes you d rather not breathe in but,we could take measures to mitigate that risk so in and
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 8, 2009
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            Suffice it to say burning any kind of foam will produce hazardous fumes you'd rather not breathe in but,we could take measures to mitigate that risk so in and of itself, that's is not reason enough not to use it.

            There's another more practical not to use it, polystyrene vapourizes more or less completely when it comes in contact with molten aluminium, bronze or whatever making it ideal for lost foam casting. Polyurethane (i.e. foam in a can) but contrast does NOT vapourize completely rather it leaves behind a significant amount of char, ash, etc., these would result in incomplete filling, form inclusions and generally make a mess of your casting.


            --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Greetings,
            >
            > Does anyone know if foam spayed from a can (like "Touch 'n Foam")
            > could be used for a lost foam pattern?
            >
            > I used some to fill in a gap and a bit fell on the ground. After it
            > cured I picked it up and snapped it in half. It looks/acts a lot
            > Styrofoam.
            >
            > I am not sure what type of foam it actually is - the can just says:
            >
            > "Contains MDI Monomer, Polyurethane and Propane/Isobutane. If burned,
            > dried foam may release hazardous decomposition products".
            >
            > If it is safe to use, it could be a really cool way to make foam
            > copies of a mold...
            >
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
            > <http://OpenOSX.com>
            > phone: 208.462.4171
            >
          • Stone Tool
            There seems to be an effort to minimize the toxic urethane combustion byproducts and equate them with the merely stinky and relatively harmless combustion
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 9, 2009
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              There seems to be an effort to minimize the toxic urethane combustion
              byproducts and equate them with the merely stinky and relatively
              harmless combustion byproducts from polystyrene..... It is not good to
              breath any of it... but Urethane fumes are very toxic and it is a
              mistake to equate them with those of polystyrene.

              Howard

              abascirocco wrote:
              > Suffice it to say burning any kind of foam will produce hazardous fumes you'd rather not breathe in but,we could take measures to mitigate that risk so in and of itself, that's is not reason enough not to use it.
              >
              > There's another more practical not to use it, polystyrene vapourizes more or less completely when it comes in contact with molten aluminium, bronze or whatever making it ideal for lost foam casting. Polyurethane (i.e. foam in a can) but contrast does NOT vapourize completely rather it leaves behind a significant amount of char, ash, etc., these would result in incomplete filling, form inclusions and generally make a mess of your casting.
              >
              >
              > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> Greetings,
              >>
              >> Does anyone know if foam spayed from a can (like "Touch 'n Foam")
              >> could be used for a lost foam pattern?
              >>
              >> I used some to fill in a gap and a bit fell on the ground. After it
              >> cured I picked it up and snapped it in half. It looks/acts a lot
              >> Styrofoam.
              >>
              >> I am not sure what type of foam it actually is - the can just says:
              >>
              >> "Contains MDI Monomer, Polyurethane and Propane/Isobutane. If burned,
              >> dried foam may release hazardous decomposition products".
              >>
              >> If it is safe to use, it could be a really cool way to make foam
              >> copies of a mold...
              >>
              >>
              >> Cheers,
              >>
              >> Jeshua Lacock, Owner
              >> <http://OpenOSX.com>
              >> phone: 208.462.4171
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
              > this list does not accept attachments.
              >
              > Files area and list services are at:
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              >
              > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
              > check out these two affiliated sites:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
              >
              > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
              > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
              >
              > List Owner:
              > owly@...
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • abascirocco
              If that s the impression my post made, I m sorry, that was not my intent. I merely meant to say that IF, polyurethane were otherwise suitable, with proper
              Message 6 of 22 , Oct 9, 2009
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                If that's the impression my post made, I'm sorry, that was not my
                intent. I merely meant to say that IF, polyurethane were otherwise
                suitable, with proper ventilation, protection and procedures we would
                be able to safely deal with the toxic fumes produced but that's a moot
                point since the toxic fumes aren't the primary reason polyurethane isn't
                suitable for lost foam casting.

                --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Stone Tool <owly@...> wrote:
                >
                > There seems to be an effort to minimize the toxic urethane combustion
                > byproducts and equate them with the merely stinky and relatively
                > harmless combustion byproducts from polystyrene..... It is not good
                to
                > breath any of it... but Urethane fumes are very toxic and it is a
                > mistake to equate them with those of polystyrene.
                >
                > Howard
                >
                > abascirocco wrote:
                > > Suffice it to say burning any kind of foam will produce hazardous
                fumes you'd rather not breathe in but,we could take measures to mitigate
                that risk so in and of itself, that's is not reason enough not to use
                it.
                > >
                > > There's another more practical not to use it, polystyrene vapourizes
                more or less completely when it comes in contact with molten aluminium,
                bronze or whatever making it ideal for lost foam casting. Polyurethane
                (i.e. foam in a can) but contrast does NOT vapourize completely rather
                it leaves behind a significant amount of char, ash, etc., these would
                result in incomplete filling, form inclusions and generally make a mess
                of your casting.
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Jeshua Lacock jeshua@ wrote:
                > >>
                > >> Greetings,
                > >>
                > >> Does anyone know if foam spayed from a can (like "Touch 'n Foam")
                > >> could be used for a lost foam pattern?
                > >>
                > >> I used some to fill in a gap and a bit fell on the ground. After it
                > >> cured I picked it up and snapped it in half. It looks/acts a lot
                > >> Styrofoam.
                > >>
                > >> I am not sure what type of foam it actually is - the can just says:
                > >>
                > >> "Contains MDI Monomer, Polyurethane and Propane/Isobutane. If
                burned,
                > >> dried foam may release hazardous decomposition products".
                > >>
                > >> If it is safe to use, it could be a really cool way to make foam
                > >> copies of a mold...
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Cheers,
                > >>
                > >> Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                > >> <http://OpenOSX.com>
                > >> phone: 208.462.4171
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                > > this list does not accept attachments.
                > >
                > > Files area and list services are at:
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                > >
                > > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                > > check out these two affiliated sites:
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                > >
                > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                > >
                > > List Owner:
                > > owly@...
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >



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