Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [hobbicast] Isoprene as a fuel

Expand Messages
  • Jeshua Lacock
    ... You might want to check out Thermal depolymerization, it breaks down tires to petroleum (plus natural gases, carbon and metals), with heat and pressure.
    Message 1 of 26 , Jun 21, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      On Jun 20, 2009, at 10:25 PM, Stone Tool wrote:

      > I have been looking at tire burning..... and believe it could have
      > potential. The product of "destructive distillation" of rubber is
      > isoprene.... a flammable liquid of considerable energy which is
      > naturally occurring......... in fact it was the chemical our idiot
      > president was speaking of when he stated that trees were worse
      > polluters
      > than cars........
      >
      > I don't know a lot about the process.... other than the basic
      > principle
      > of destructive distillation, which involves using heat to break down
      > chemical bonds, and vaporize the material. The gases thus produced are
      > then condensed....... those that can be condensed that is. Wood gas
      > was
      > produced by destructive distillation, and was a common fuel in cars
      > during WWII in Europe and the UK. big bags of gas rode on top of buses
      > and such..... as wood gas does not condense, and cannot be safely
      > compressed. Gasogens was the term.


      You might want to check out Thermal depolymerization, it breaks down
      tires to petroleum (plus natural gases, carbon and metals), with heat
      and pressure.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization

      Basically you just have to have a pressure chamber heated to 600 PSI
      for about 15 minutes, and you get petro from plastic, tires, waste
      livestock, etc.

      I have been wanting to cast a test chamber for quite some time now.


      Best,

      Jeshua Lacock, Owner
      <http://OpenOSX.com>
      phone: 877.240.1364
    • Stone Tool
      Jeshua: It is worth looking further than that one article on wiki... You do not need high pressure, in fact some processes operate on negative pressure. Heat
      Message 2 of 26 , Jun 21, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Jeshua:
        It is worth looking further than that one article on wiki... You do
        not need high pressure, in fact some processes operate on negative
        pressure. Heat will break rubber down into isoprene easily, and
        isoprene is a high energy fuel by itself. The biggest issue is the
        sulfur. It also claims a higher percentage of solids than there should
        be, but if the object is to achieve a fully saturated hydrocarbon fuel,
        then carbon must be dropped out or hydrogen added in the process. If
        the hydrogen source is to be water, then a tremendous amount of energy
        will be consumed in the process of breaking down the water..... though a
        percentage of that energy will be returned on the other end.

        The place to start is to simply build a chamber that can be heated with
        rubber in it. On a test scale, it could be quite small as there is a
        lot of rubber in the form of tubes and liners that can be reduced in
        dimension enough to be handled in a small reactor. That reactor could
        be little more than a piece of pipe with a welded end and a tightly
        fitting top that can be removed easily.... heating from an ordinary weed
        burner could drive the test process and quantify the amount of thermal
        energy required for a given yield initially. The gases drawn off would
        be condensed through a water cooled condenser, or even an automotive
        radiator immersed in water. Gases that didn't condense would become
        "stack gas" initially, and be flared through a propane pilot at the top
        of the stack..... eventually they would be redirected into the heating
        flame. It would be nothing particularly difficult of expensive to try.

        Howard

        Jeshua Lacock wrote:
        > On Jun 20, 2009, at 10:25 PM, Stone Tool wrote:
        >
        >> I have been looking at tire burning..... and believe it could have
        >> potential. The product of "destructive distillation" of rubber is
        >> isoprene.... a flammable liquid of considerable energy which is
        >> naturally occurring......... in fact it was the chemical our idiot
        >> president was speaking of when he stated that trees were worse
        >> polluters
        >> than cars........
        >>
        >> I don't know a lot about the process.... other than the basic
        >> principle
        >> of destructive distillation, which involves using heat to break down
        >> chemical bonds, and vaporize the material. The gases thus produced are
        >> then condensed....... those that can be condensed that is. Wood gas
        >> was
        >> produced by destructive distillation, and was a common fuel in cars
        >> during WWII in Europe and the UK. big bags of gas rode on top of buses
        >> and such..... as wood gas does not condense, and cannot be safely
        >> compressed. Gasogens was the term.
        >
        >
        > You might want to check out Thermal depolymerization, it breaks down
        > tires to petroleum (plus natural gases, carbon and metals), with heat
        > and pressure.
        >
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization
        >
        > Basically you just have to have a pressure chamber heated to 600 PSI
        > for about 15 minutes, and you get petro from plastic, tires, waste
        > livestock, etc.
        >
        > I have been wanting to cast a test chamber for quite some time now.
        >
        >
        > Best,
        >
        > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
        > <http://OpenOSX.com>
        > phone: 877.240.1364
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
        > this list does not accept attachments.
        >
        > Files area and list services are at:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
        >
        > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
        > check out these two affiliated sites:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
        >
        > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
        > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
        >
        > List Owner:
        > owly@...
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Ken Durstine
        Pyrolysis is the process of partially burning something with less than the normal amount of combustion air and then using the off gases as either a product
        Message 3 of 26 , Jun 21, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          "Pyrolysis" is the process of partially burning something with less
          than the normal amount of combustion air and then using the off gases
          as either a product or for further combustion with add'l combustion air.
          25 years or so ago, I worked on a tire burner project that utilized a
          "fluidized bed" to burn the tires and generate process heat. But the
          project was canceled just prior to construction. The problems you will
          have burning tires include are how will you cope with all the
          reinforcing wires into the tires and how will you maintain something
          like a constant air/fuel ratio batch feeding entire tires as fuel.
          Cutting tires into chunks takes lots of horsepower.

          As you say, there is a bunch of energy in a tire if you can capture it,
          but getting it will be a real pain in the butt. Even if you are out in
          the sticks, the EPA will want to license your burner if it is very big.
          You will have to look into the regs to see where the EPA gets involved.
          Ignorance will not save you from a whopping big fine after the fact.

          Good luck

          Kenny
        • Stone Tool
          Ken: Pyrolysis is one of two processes that would suit my purposes.... and the simpler, but less desirable of the two. The other is to accomplish thermal
          Message 4 of 26 , Jun 21, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Ken:
            Pyrolysis is one of two processes that would suit my purposes.... and
            the simpler, but less desirable of the two. The other is to accomplish
            thermal depolymerization with heat alone.. no air. Heat would be
            applied to the chamber by an external burner. The same thing is
            accomplished but without some of the liabilities of carrying out
            combustion in the chamber at the same time. All of the incondensable
            gases..... and some of the condensate would be used to sustain the
            process, and heat would be produced as well as a liquid fuel for heating
            and / or other purposes (largely isoprene). The tremendous amount of
            carbon produced by combustion in a low air environment would not be
            there in the second process............ EPA??? What's that?


            Howard

            Ken Durstine wrote:
            > "Pyrolysis" is the process of partially burning something with less
            > than the normal amount of combustion air and then using the off gases
            > as either a product or for further combustion with add'l combustion air.
            > 25 years or so ago, I worked on a tire burner project that utilized a
            > "fluidized bed" to burn the tires and generate process heat. But the
            > project was canceled just prior to construction. The problems you will
            > have burning tires include are how will you cope with all the
            > reinforcing wires into the tires and how will you maintain something
            > like a constant air/fuel ratio batch feeding entire tires as fuel.
            > Cutting tires into chunks takes lots of horsepower.
            >
            > As you say, there is a bunch of energy in a tire if you can capture it,
            > but getting it will be a real pain in the butt. Even if you are out in
            > the sticks, the EPA will want to license your burner if it is very big.
            > You will have to look into the regs to see where the EPA gets involved.
            > Ignorance will not save you from a whopping big fine after the fact.
            >
            > Good luck
            >
            > Kenny
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
            > this list does not accept attachments.
            >
            > Files area and list services are at:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
            >
            > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
            > check out these two affiliated sites:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
            >
            > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
            > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
            >
            > List Owner:
            > owly@...
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • JohnW
            Howard I remember seeing a news video of a tire fire. They were collecting oil that was running out from under the pile of tires. I suppose the heat of the
            Message 5 of 26 , Jun 22, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Howard
              I remember seeing a news video of a tire fire. They were collecting "oil" that was running out from under the pile of tires. I suppose the heat of the fire was decomposing the tires underneath. There must not have been enough air or heat for the oil to start burning before it had traveled far enough away to cool off.

              You could test your ideas pretty easily at a bench scale before deciding whether it is worth scaling up. A non pressure vessel process would be a lot safer than a pressurized one.


              JohnW

              --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Stone Tool <owly@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ken:
              > Pyrolysis is one of two processes that would suit my purposes.... and
              > the simpler, but less desirable of the two. The other is to accomplish
              > thermal depolymerization with heat alone.. no air. Heat would be
              > applied to the chamber by an external burner. The same thing is
              > accomplished but without some of the liabilities of carrying out
              > combustion in the chamber at the same time. All of the incondensable
              > gases..... and some of the condensate would be used to sustain the
              > process, and heat would be produced as well as a liquid fuel for heating
              > and / or other purposes (largely isoprene). The tremendous amount of
              > carbon produced by combustion in a low air environment would not be
              > there in the second process............ EPA??? What's that?
              >
              >
              > Howard
              >
              > Ken Durstine wrote:
              > > "Pyrolysis" is the process of partially burning something with less
              > > than the normal amount of combustion air and then using the off gases
              > > as either a product or for further combustion with add'l combustion air.
              > > 25 years or so ago, I worked on a tire burner project that utilized a
              > > "fluidized bed" to burn the tires and generate process heat. But the
              > > project was canceled just prior to construction. The problems you will
              > > have burning tires include are how will you cope with all the
              > > reinforcing wires into the tires and how will you maintain something
              > > like a constant air/fuel ratio batch feeding entire tires as fuel.
              > > Cutting tires into chunks takes lots of horsepower.
              > >
              > > As you say, there is a bunch of energy in a tire if you can capture it,
              > > but getting it will be a real pain in the butt. Even if you are out in
              > > the sticks, the EPA will want to license your burner if it is very big.
              > > You will have to look into the regs to see where the EPA gets involved.
              > > Ignorance will not save you from a whopping big fine after the fact.
              > >
              > > Good luck
              > >
              > > Kenny
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
              > > this list does not accept attachments.
              > >
              > > Files area and list services are at:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
              > >
              > > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
              > > check out these two affiliated sites:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
              > >
              > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
              > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
              > >
              > > List Owner:
              > > owly@...
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Ken Durstine
              ... I agree this approach would be a lot cleaner. If you take this path, I recommend that you pay some pretty close attention to how you regulate the
              Message 6 of 26 , Jun 22, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Howard sez:

                >
                > Pyrolysis is one of two processes that would suit my purposes.... and
                > the simpler, but less desirable of the two. The other is to accomplish
                > thermal depolymerization with heat alone.. no air. Heat would be
                > applied to the chamber by an external burner.

                I agree this approach would be a lot cleaner. If you take this path, I
                recommend that you pay some pretty close attention to how you regulate
                the temperature of the chamber, particularly, if the vessel is closed to
                become a pressure vessel. No need for your project to be a real "bomb".
                A failure in a vessel filled with water at 100 psi is not terribly
                exciting, one filled with vapor is a whole nuther story. A rupture disk
                would not be terribly expensive and might save your day.


                > The same thing is
                > accomplished but without some of the liabilities of carrying out
                > combustion in the chamber at the same time. All of the incondensable
                > gases..... and some of the condensate would be used to sustain the
                > process, and heat would be produced as well as a liquid fuel for heating
                > and / or other purposes (largely isoprene). The tremendous amount of
                > carbon produced by combustion in a low air environment would not be
                > there in the second process.....
                > ....... EPA??? What's that?

                The mean little brother to the Iranian riot police. Take away everything
                but your house and the little bit of ground it sits on if you get cross
                wise with them. Might declare your property a toxic waste site. I think
                the EPA interest is based on the heat rating of the burner. If you
                insulate the vessel well and use a small burner, you might be below the
                threshold of the regs. All this stuff should be on the web, something to
                look at while the coffee pot does its thing.

                Might also look into how you dispose of the remains of the process after
                decomposing the tires. In eastern Idaho they are getting fussy about
                what goes to dump. Forewarned is forearmed etc.

                Good luck with the project.
                >
                > Howard
              • Nick Andrews
                Hell, they aren t accepting TVs at the recycling center here any more. I heard they are charging $5 each to dump them. What a joke, I d just bury it in my
                Message 7 of 26 , Jun 22, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hell, they aren't accepting TVs at the 'recycling' center here any more. I
                  heard they are charging $5 each to dump them. What a joke, I'd just bury it
                  in my trash can with the other stuff anyway if no one wanted it, after I
                  strip the circuit boards...

                  On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Ken Durstine <kdurstine@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Howard sez:
                  >
                  > >
                  > > Pyrolysis is one of two processes that would suit my purposes.... and
                  > > the simpler, but less desirable of the two. The other is to accomplish
                  > > thermal depolymerization with heat alone.. no air. Heat would be
                  > > applied to the chamber by an external burner.
                  >
                  > I agree this approach would be a lot cleaner. If you take this path, I
                  > recommend that you pay some pretty close attention to how you regulate
                  > the temperature of the chamber, particularly, if the vessel is closed to
                  > become a pressure vessel. No need for your project to be a real "bomb".
                  > A failure in a vessel filled with water at 100 psi is not terribly
                  > exciting, one filled with vapor is a whole nuther story. A rupture disk
                  > would not be terribly expensive and might save your day.
                  >
                  > > The same thing is
                  > > accomplished but without some of the liabilities of carrying out
                  > > combustion in the chamber at the same time. All of the incondensable
                  > > gases..... and some of the condensate would be used to sustain the
                  > > process, and heat would be produced as well as a liquid fuel for heating
                  > > and / or other purposes (largely isoprene). The tremendous amount of
                  > > carbon produced by combustion in a low air environment would not be
                  > > there in the second process.....
                  > > ....... EPA??? What's that?
                  >
                  > The mean little brother to the Iranian riot police. Take away everything
                  > but your house and the little bit of ground it sits on if you get cross
                  > wise with them. Might declare your property a toxic waste site. I think
                  > the EPA interest is based on the heat rating of the burner. If you
                  > insulate the vessel well and use a small burner, you might be below the
                  > threshold of the regs. All this stuff should be on the web, something to
                  > look at while the coffee pot does its thing.
                  >
                  > Might also look into how you dispose of the remains of the process after
                  > decomposing the tires. In eastern Idaho they are getting fussy about
                  > what goes to dump. Forewarned is forearmed etc.
                  >
                  > Good luck with the project.
                  > >
                  > > Howard
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  Nick A

                  "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
                  single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975

                  "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
                  deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review
                  of Pennsylvania, 1759

                  "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the
                  streets after them." Bill Vaughan

                  "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
                  Plato


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • JohnW
                  Nick In Alberta they are charging the recycling fee up front when you buy the TV. The worst part is that they charge the same for an LCD screen as they would
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jun 22, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Nick
                    In Alberta they are charging the recycling fee up front when you buy the TV. The worst part is that they charge the same for an LCD screen as they would for the same size CRT TV.

                    Personally I think it is crap but if you accept the idea that TVs should be recycled then it does work.

                    JohnW

                    --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Nick Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hell, they aren't accepting TVs at the 'recycling' center here any more. I
                    > heard they are charging $5 each to dump them. What a joke, I'd just bury it
                    > in my trash can with the other stuff anyway if no one wanted it, after I
                    > strip the circuit boards...
                    >
                    > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Ken Durstine <kdurstine@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Howard sez:
                    > >
                    >
                  • Nick Andrews
                    Depends, how much is the fee? ... -- Nick A You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a single throat, and I had my hands about
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jun 22, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Depends, how much is the fee?

                      On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:05 PM, JohnW <john.walker@...> wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > Nick
                      > In Alberta they are charging the recycling fee up front when you buy the
                      > TV. The worst part is that they charge the same for an LCD screen as they
                      > would for the same size CRT TV.
                      >
                      > Personally I think it is crap but if you accept the idea that TVs should be
                      > recycled then it does work.
                      >
                      > JohnW
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com <hobbicast%40yahoogroups.com>, Nick
                      > Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hell, they aren't accepting TVs at the 'recycling' center here any more.
                      > I
                      > > heard they are charging $5 each to dump them. What a joke, I'd just bury
                      > it
                      > > in my trash can with the other stuff anyway if no one wanted it, after I
                      > > strip the circuit boards...
                      > >
                      > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Ken Durstine <kdurstine@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Howard sez:
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      --
                      Nick A

                      "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
                      single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975

                      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
                      deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review
                      of Pennsylvania, 1759

                      "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the
                      streets after them." Bill Vaughan

                      "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
                      Plato


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Aaron Pasteris
                      Sent from my iPod ... If the temperature is high enough, the contents will flash to steam and ruin your day. This can occur even if the entire vessel is filled
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jun 22, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Sent from my iPod


                        On Jun 22, 2009, at 12:44 PM, Ken Durstine <kdurstine@...> wrote:


                        >>
                        >
                        > I agree this approach would be a lot cleaner. If you take this path, I
                        > recommend that you pay some pretty close attention to how you regulate
                        > the temperature of the chamber, particularly, if the vessel is
                        > closed to
                        > become a pressure vessel. No need for your project to be a real
                        > "bomb".
                        > A failure in a vessel filled with water at 100 psi is not terribly
                        > exciting, one filled with vapor is a whole nuther story. A rupture
                        > disk
                        > would not be terribly expensive and might save your day.
                        >
                        >

                        If the temperature is high enough, the contents will flash to steam
                        and ruin your day. This can occur even if the entire vessel is filled
                        with liquid at pressure.

                        Aaron

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Stone Tool
                        Ken: I am well aware of the dangers of pressure vessels...... it would be foolish to operated under pressure except in a specially engineered process which
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jun 22, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Ken:
                          I am well aware of the dangers of pressure vessels...... it would be
                          foolish to operated under pressure except in a specially engineered
                          process which required pressure and a catalyst to achieve a specific
                          result. The design I am talking about would run zero to negative
                          pressures. As material gassed off, the gases would be condensed to
                          liquid in a condenser which might be as simple as an automotive radiator
                          or AC core.

                          Howard

                          Ken Durstine wrote:
                          > Howard sez:
                          >
                          >> Pyrolysis is one of two processes that would suit my purposes.... and
                          >> the simpler, but less desirable of the two. The other is to accomplish
                          >> thermal depolymerization with heat alone.. no air. Heat would be
                          >> applied to the chamber by an external burner.
                          >
                          > I agree this approach would be a lot cleaner. If you take this path, I
                          > recommend that you pay some pretty close attention to how you regulate
                          > the temperature of the chamber, particularly, if the vessel is closed to
                          > become a pressure vessel. No need for your project to be a real "bomb".
                          > A failure in a vessel filled with water at 100 psi is not terribly
                          > exciting, one filled with vapor is a whole nuther story. A rupture disk
                          > would not be terribly expensive and might save your day.
                          >
                          >
                          >> The same thing is
                          >> accomplished but without some of the liabilities of carrying out
                          >> combustion in the chamber at the same time. All of the incondensable
                          >> gases..... and some of the condensate would be used to sustain the
                          >> process, and heat would be produced as well as a liquid fuel for heating
                          >> and / or other purposes (largely isoprene). The tremendous amount of
                          >> carbon produced by combustion in a low air environment would not be
                          >> there in the second process.....
                          >> ....... EPA??? What's that?
                          >
                          > The mean little brother to the Iranian riot police. Take away everything
                          > but your house and the little bit of ground it sits on if you get cross
                          > wise with them. Might declare your property a toxic waste site. I think
                          > the EPA interest is based on the heat rating of the burner. If you
                          > insulate the vessel well and use a small burner, you might be below the
                          > threshold of the regs. All this stuff should be on the web, something to
                          > look at while the coffee pot does its thing.
                          >
                          > Might also look into how you dispose of the remains of the process after
                          > decomposing the tires. In eastern Idaho they are getting fussy about
                          > what goes to dump. Forewarned is forearmed etc.
                          >
                          > Good luck with the project.
                          >> Howard
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                          > this list does not accept attachments.
                          >
                          > Files area and list services are at:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                          >
                          > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                          > check out these two affiliated sites:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                          >
                          > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                          > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                          >
                          > List Owner:
                          > owly@...
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Ken Durstine
                          ... Just be careful that you don t provide a way to accidentally pressurize the system by installing a valve in your condensate system that can be shut at the
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jun 23, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            >
                            > I am well aware of the dangers of pressure vessels...... it would be
                            > foolish to operated under pressure except in a specially engineered
                            > process which required pressure and a catalyst to achieve a specific
                            > result. The design I am talking about would run zero to negative
                            > pressures. As material gassed off, the gases would be condensed to
                            > liquid in a condenser which might be as simple as an automotive radiator
                            > or AC core.
                            Just be careful that you don't provide a way to accidentally pressurize
                            the system by installing a valve in your condensate system that can be
                            shut at the wrong time or by plugging your condenser. I suspect
                            moonshining fuel from tires would be a dirty process.

                            Kenny
                          • JohnW
                            Nick The fee goes up with the size of the screen and peaks out at abouit $50. Call me a sceptic but IMHO most recycling programs are more about making people
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jun 23, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Nick
                              The fee goes up with the size of the screen and peaks out at abouit $50.

                              Call me a sceptic but IMHO most recycling programs are more about making people feel good and have little if any economic or environmental impact.

                              there are some programs that do work well though. We pay a $0.05 deposit on beer and pop cans, more on the 1 litre and larger sizes. We get the money back when they are returned to a bottle depot. I don't kow how much we subsidize the bottle depots but we don't have empties littering the roadsides. Another good or maybe bad result, depending upon how you look at it, is that discarded cans are a form of revenue for street people.

                              JohnW

                              --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Nick Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Depends, how much is the fee?
                              >
                              > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:05 PM, JohnW <john.walker@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Nick
                              > > In Alberta they are charging the recycling fee up front when you buy the
                              > > TV. The worst part is that they charge the same for an LCD screen as they
                              > > would for the same size CRT TV.
                              > >
                              > > Personally I think it is crap but if you accept the idea that TVs should be
                              > > recycled then it does work.
                              > >
                              > > JohnW
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com <hobbicast%40yahoogroups.com>, Nick
                              > > Andrews <nickjandrews@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hell, they aren't accepting TVs at the 'recycling' center here any more.
                              > > I
                              > > > heard they are charging $5 each to dump them. What a joke, I'd just bury
                              > > it
                              > > > in my trash can with the other stuff anyway if no one wanted it, after I
                              > > > strip the circuit boards...
                              > > >
                              > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Ken Durstine <kdurstine@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Howard sez:
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Nick A
                              >
                              > "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
                              > single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975
                              >
                              > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
                              > deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review
                              > of Pennsylvania, 1759
                              >
                              > "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the
                              > streets after them." Bill Vaughan
                              >
                              > "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
                              > Plato
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Nick Andrews
                              Well, as a civil engineer and a taxpayer, I see how much it costs to permit and build a new landfill, so anything we can keep out of the landfill is a good
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jun 23, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Well, as a civil engineer and a taxpayer, I see how much it costs to permit
                                and build a new landfill, so anything we can keep out of the landfill is a
                                good thing. Yes, many recycling programs are feel-good BS. We do need to
                                force recycling though. Such as glass, they say there's no market, but
                                that's crap. Crush it and use as concrete aggregate, for countertops and
                                sidewalks, etc. Use crushed glass in landscaping medians instead of rock,
                                etc.

                                On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:21 AM, JohnW <john.walker@...> wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > Nick
                                > The fee goes up with the size of the screen and peaks out at abouit $50.
                                >
                                > Call me a sceptic but IMHO most recycling programs are more about making
                                > people feel good and have little if any economic or environmental impact.
                                >
                                > there are some programs that do work well though. We pay a $0.05 deposit on
                                > beer and pop cans, more on the 1 litre and larger sizes. We get the money
                                > back when they are returned to a bottle depot. I don't kow how much we
                                > subsidize the bottle depots but we don't have empties littering the
                                > roadsides. Another good or maybe bad result, depending upon how you look at
                                > it, is that discarded cans are a form of revenue for street people.
                                >
                                > JohnW
                                >
                                > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com <hobbicast%40yahoogroups.com>, Nick
                                > Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Depends, how much is the fee?
                                > >
                                > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:05 PM, JohnW <john.walker@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Nick
                                > > > In Alberta they are charging the recycling fee up front when you buy
                                > the
                                > > > TV. The worst part is that they charge the same for an LCD screen as
                                > they
                                > > > would for the same size CRT TV.
                                > > >
                                > > > Personally I think it is crap but if you accept the idea that TVs
                                > should be
                                > > > recycled then it does work.
                                > > >
                                > > > JohnW
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com <hobbicast%40yahoogroups.com><hobbicast%
                                > 40yahoogroups.com>, Nick
                                > > > Andrews <nickjandrews@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Hell, they aren't accepting TVs at the 'recycling' center here any
                                > more.
                                > > > I
                                > > > > heard they are charging $5 each to dump them. What a joke, I'd just
                                > bury
                                > > > it
                                > > > > in my trash can with the other stuff anyway if no one wanted it,
                                > after I
                                > > > > strip the circuit boards...
                                > > > >
                                > > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Ken Durstine <kdurstine@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Howard sez:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --
                                > > Nick A
                                > >
                                > > "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
                                > > single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975
                                > >
                                > > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
                                > safety
                                > > deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical
                                > Review
                                > > of Pennsylvania, 1759
                                > >
                                > > "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the
                                > > streets after them." Bill Vaughan
                                > >
                                > > "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
                                > > Plato
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >



                                --
                                Nick A

                                "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
                                single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975

                                "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
                                deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review
                                of Pennsylvania, 1759

                                "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the
                                streets after them." Bill Vaughan

                                "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
                                Plato


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Stone Tool
                                Ken: I am well acquainted with Murphy. I just had a Murphy moment last night after someone turned on a breaker they had no business touching in an outside
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jun 23, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Ken:
                                  I am well acquainted with Murphy. I just had a Murphy moment last
                                  night after someone turned on a breaker they had no business touching in
                                  an outside accessible building. The purpose was to get air at my
                                  outside hose set up for convenience of the neighbors. The hose runs on a
                                  solenoid valve with a bright light attached to it so it is obvious the
                                  valve is on. The pressure switch on that compressor had been sticking
                                  in the on position so I had shut it off. A week or so later I had
                                  turned my main compressor on to supply the outside hose, not knowing
                                  that the breaker had been turned on by someone frustrated because there
                                  was no air...... The result was that yesterday someone got air, and
                                  left the air on, and the small compressor stuck on, and the hose blew
                                  out. I came home and the buildings were full of oil smoke from hot
                                  compressors, the solenoid valve no longer works.... damaged by the high
                                  pressure...... and who knows how long the whole thing ran. So now I
                                  need a solenoid valve, a pressure switch, and a good quality service
                                  station type hose instead of just a pressure switch. I killed power in
                                  the locked building this time. It's amazing how much damage a little
                                  bit of fiddelitis can do. Thankfully with both compressors plumbed
                                  together, and two pop off valves, the probability of blowing a tank is
                                  small..... I can just imagine the detestation!!!

                                  You can design systems for your own use, but you can never predict the
                                  depth of human stupidity..... what can go wrong WILL go wrong.

                                  Howard





                                  Ken Durstine wrote:
                                  >> I am well aware of the dangers of pressure vessels...... it would be
                                  >> foolish to operated under pressure except in a specially engineered
                                  >> process which required pressure and a catalyst to achieve a specific
                                  >> result. The design I am talking about would run zero to negative
                                  >> pressures. As material gassed off, the gases would be condensed to
                                  >> liquid in a condenser which might be as simple as an automotive radiator
                                  >> or AC core.
                                  > Just be careful that you don't provide a way to accidentally pressurize
                                  > the system by installing a valve in your condensate system that can be
                                  > shut at the wrong time or by plugging your condenser. I suspect
                                  > moonshining fuel from tires would be a dirty process.
                                  >
                                  > Kenny
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                  > this list does not accept attachments.
                                  >
                                  > Files area and list services are at:
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                                  >
                                  > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                  > check out these two affiliated sites:
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                                  >
                                  > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                  > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                  >
                                  > List Owner:
                                  > owly@...
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Stone Tool
                                  John: The deposit thing doesn t go nearly far enough. Other items that should be subject to deposit are batteries.........Nicads are extremely toxic.... most
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jun 23, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    John:
                                    The deposit thing doesn't go nearly far enough. Other items that
                                    should be subject to deposit are batteries.........Nicads are extremely
                                    toxic.... most others are also quite toxic and often thrown in waste
                                    burners. They shouldn't be allowed to be buried in landfills. Those
                                    companies who manufacture such products should be required to put REAL
                                    recycling programs in place, and the deposit on things like nicad
                                    batteries should exceed or at least equal the price of the battery to
                                    provide a huge economic incentive. Likewise fluorescent bulbs, plastic
                                    products, and many other things........ Recycling costs need to be built
                                    into the original purchase price of everything. There is no reason at
                                    all why anything should be landfilled anymore between composting,
                                    pyrolysis, recycling, burning, etc.

                                    Howard

                                    JohnW wrote:
                                    > Nick
                                    > The fee goes up with the size of the screen and peaks out at abouit $50.
                                    >
                                    > Call me a sceptic but IMHO most recycling programs are more about making people feel good and have little if any economic or environmental impact.
                                    >
                                    > there are some programs that do work well though. We pay a $0.05 deposit on beer and pop cans, more on the 1 litre and larger sizes. We get the money back when they are returned to a bottle depot. I don't kow how much we subsidize the bottle depots but we don't have empties littering the roadsides. Another good or maybe bad result, depending upon how you look at it, is that discarded cans are a form of revenue for street people.
                                    >
                                    > JohnW
                                    >
                                    > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Nick Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:
                                    >> Depends, how much is the fee?
                                    >>
                                    >> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:05 PM, JohnW <john.walker@...> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Nick
                                    >>> In Alberta they are charging the recycling fee up front when you buy the
                                    >>> TV. The worst part is that they charge the same for an LCD screen as they
                                    >>> would for the same size CRT TV.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Personally I think it is crap but if you accept the idea that TVs should be
                                    >>> recycled then it does work.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> JohnW
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com <hobbicast%40yahoogroups.com>, Nick
                                    >>> Andrews <nickjandrews@> wrote:
                                    >>>> Hell, they aren't accepting TVs at the 'recycling' center here any more.
                                    >>> I
                                    >>>> heard they are charging $5 each to dump them. What a joke, I'd just bury
                                    >>> it
                                    >>>> in my trash can with the other stuff anyway if no one wanted it, after I
                                    >>>> strip the circuit boards...
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Ken Durstine <kdurstine@> wrote:
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> Howard sez:
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> --
                                    >> Nick A
                                    >>
                                    >> "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
                                    >> single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975
                                    >>
                                    >> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
                                    >> deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review
                                    >> of Pennsylvania, 1759
                                    >>
                                    >> "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the
                                    >> streets after them." Bill Vaughan
                                    >>
                                    >> "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
                                    >> Plato
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                    > this list does not accept attachments.
                                    >
                                    > Files area and list services are at:
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                                    >
                                    > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                    > check out these two affiliated sites:
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                                    >
                                    > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                    > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                    >
                                    > List Owner:
                                    > owly@...
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Stone Tool
                                    Nick: Glass is already used in paving in some areas. No reason at all that it can t go to the local crusher along with rock. Howard
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jun 23, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Nick:
                                      Glass is already used in paving in some areas. No reason at all that
                                      it can't go to the local crusher along with rock.

                                      Howard

                                      Nick Andrews wrote:
                                      > Well, as a civil engineer and a taxpayer, I see how much it costs to permit
                                      > and build a new landfill, so anything we can keep out of the landfill is a
                                      > good thing. Yes, many recycling programs are feel-good BS. We do need to
                                      > force recycling though. Such as glass, they say there's no market, but
                                      > that's crap. Crush it and use as concrete aggregate, for countertops and
                                      > sidewalks, etc. Use crushed glass in landscaping medians instead of rock,
                                      > etc.
                                      >
                                      > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:21 AM, JohnW <john.walker@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >> Nick
                                      >> The fee goes up with the size of the screen and peaks out at abouit $50.
                                      >>
                                      >> Call me a sceptic but IMHO most recycling programs are more about making
                                      >> people feel good and have little if any economic or environmental impact.
                                      >>
                                      >> there are some programs that do work well though. We pay a $0.05 deposit on
                                      >> beer and pop cans, more on the 1 litre and larger sizes. We get the money
                                      >> back when they are returned to a bottle depot. I don't kow how much we
                                      >> subsidize the bottle depots but we don't have empties littering the
                                      >> roadsides. Another good or maybe bad result, depending upon how you look at
                                      >> it, is that discarded cans are a form of revenue for street people.
                                      >>
                                      >> JohnW
                                      >>
                                      >> --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com <hobbicast%40yahoogroups.com>, Nick
                                      >> Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:
                                      >>> Depends, how much is the fee?
                                      >>>
                                      >>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:05 PM, JohnW <john.walker@...> wrote:
                                      >>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> Nick
                                      >>>> In Alberta they are charging the recycling fee up front when you buy
                                      >> the
                                      >>>> TV. The worst part is that they charge the same for an LCD screen as
                                      >> they
                                      >>>> would for the same size CRT TV.
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> Personally I think it is crap but if you accept the idea that TVs
                                      >> should be
                                      >>>> recycled then it does work.
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> JohnW
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com <hobbicast%40yahoogroups.com><hobbicast%
                                      >> 40yahoogroups.com>, Nick
                                      >>>> Andrews <nickjandrews@> wrote:
                                      >>>>> Hell, they aren't accepting TVs at the 'recycling' center here any
                                      >> more.
                                      >>>> I
                                      >>>>> heard they are charging $5 each to dump them. What a joke, I'd just
                                      >> bury
                                      >>>> it
                                      >>>>> in my trash can with the other stuff anyway if no one wanted it,
                                      >> after I
                                      >>>>> strip the circuit boards...
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Ken Durstine <kdurstine@> wrote:
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>>
                                      >>>>>> Howard sez:
                                      >>>>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>> --
                                      >>> Nick A
                                      >>>
                                      >>> "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
                                      >>> single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975
                                      >>>
                                      >>> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
                                      >> safety
                                      >>> deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical
                                      >> Review
                                      >>> of Pennsylvania, 1759
                                      >>>
                                      >>> "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the
                                      >>> streets after them." Bill Vaughan
                                      >>>
                                      >>> "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
                                      >>> Plato
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >>>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Nick Andrews
                                      Exactly! It really pisses me off when these morons claim there is no market for it. ... -- Nick A You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jun 23, 2009
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Exactly! It really pisses me off when these morons claim there is no market
                                        for it.

                                        On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Stone Tool <owly@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Nick:
                                        > Glass is already used in paving in some areas. No reason at all that
                                        > it can't go to the local crusher along with rock.
                                        >
                                        > Howard
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Nick Andrews wrote:
                                        > > Well, as a civil engineer and a taxpayer, I see how much it costs to
                                        > permit
                                        > > and build a new landfill, so anything we can keep out of the landfill is
                                        > a
                                        > > good thing. Yes, many recycling programs are feel-good BS. We do need to
                                        > > force recycling though. Such as glass, they say there's no market, but
                                        > > that's crap. Crush it and use as concrete aggregate, for countertops and
                                        > > sidewalks, etc. Use crushed glass in landscaping medians instead of rock,
                                        > > etc.
                                        > >
                                        > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:21 AM, JohnW <john.walker@...<john.walker%40atcopower.ca>>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Nick
                                        > >> The fee goes up with the size of the screen and peaks out at abouit $50.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Call me a sceptic but IMHO most recycling programs are more about making
                                        > >> people feel good and have little if any economic or environmental
                                        > impact.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> there are some programs that do work well though. We pay a $0.05 deposit
                                        > on
                                        > >> beer and pop cans, more on the 1 litre and larger sizes. We get the
                                        > money
                                        > >> back when they are returned to a bottle depot. I don't kow how much we
                                        > >> subsidize the bottle depots but we don't have empties littering the
                                        > >> roadsides. Another good or maybe bad result, depending upon how you look
                                        > at
                                        > >> it, is that discarded cans are a form of revenue for street people.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> JohnW
                                        > >>
                                        > >> --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com <hobbicast%40yahoogroups.com><hobbicast%
                                        > 40yahoogroups.com>, Nick
                                        > >> Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:
                                        > >>> Depends, how much is the fee?
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:05 PM, JohnW <john.walker@...> wrote:
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> Nick
                                        > >>>> In Alberta they are charging the recycling fee up front when you buy
                                        > >> the
                                        > >>>> TV. The worst part is that they charge the same for an LCD screen as
                                        > >> they
                                        > >>>> would for the same size CRT TV.
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> Personally I think it is crap but if you accept the idea that TVs
                                        > >> should be
                                        > >>>> recycled then it does work.
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> JohnW
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com <hobbicast%40yahoogroups.com><hobbicast%
                                        > 40yahoogroups.com><hobbicast%
                                        >
                                        > >> 40yahoogroups.com>, Nick
                                        > >>>> Andrews <nickjandrews@> wrote:
                                        > >>>>> Hell, they aren't accepting TVs at the 'recycling' center here any
                                        > >> more.
                                        > >>>> I
                                        > >>>>> heard they are charging $5 each to dump them. What a joke, I'd just
                                        > >> bury
                                        > >>>> it
                                        > >>>>> in my trash can with the other stuff anyway if no one wanted it,
                                        > >> after I
                                        > >>>>> strip the circuit boards...
                                        > >>>>>
                                        > >>>>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Ken Durstine <kdurstine@> wrote:
                                        > >>>>>
                                        > >>>>>>
                                        > >>>>>> Howard sez:
                                        > >>>>>>
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> --
                                        > >>> Nick A
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
                                        > >>> single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
                                        > >> safety
                                        > >>> deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical
                                        > >> Review
                                        > >>> of Pennsylvania, 1759
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names
                                        > the
                                        > >>> streets after them." Bill Vaughan
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil
                                        > men."
                                        > >>> Plato
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >



                                        --
                                        Nick A

                                        "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
                                        single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975

                                        "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
                                        deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review
                                        of Pennsylvania, 1759

                                        "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the
                                        streets after them." Bill Vaughan

                                        "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
                                        Plato


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • James Sterner
                                        Around here they say that Glassphalt actually holds up much better than regular asphalt, and is cheaper to produce that regular asphalt.  They paved just a
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Jun 23, 2009
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Around here they say that "Glassphalt" actually holds up much better than regular asphalt, and is cheaper to produce that regular asphalt.  They paved just a few streets that way, seems like a long time ago and they still continue to use the fall apart faster regular asphalt.  The "Glassphalt" has a very distinct sparkle to it and I know of at least a few streets paved after the still good "glassphalt ones that are shot already.  Who can make sense of that?
                                          Jim

                                          --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Nick Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:


                                          From: Nick Andrews <nickjandrews@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Re: Isoprene as a fuel
                                          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 12:18 PM








                                          Exactly! It really pisses me off when these morons claim there is no market
                                          for it.

                                          On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Stone Tool <owly@ttc-cmc. net> wrote:

                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Nick:
                                          > Glass is already used in paving in some areas. No reason at all that
                                          > it can't go to the local crusher along with rock.
                                          >
                                          > Howard
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Nick Andrews wrote:
                                          > > Well, as a civil engineer and a taxpayer, I see how much it costs to
                                          > permit
                                          > > and build a new landfill, so anything we can keep out of the landfill is
                                          > a
                                          > > good thing. Yes, many recycling programs are feel-good BS. We do need to
                                          > > force recycling though. Such as glass, they say there's no market, but
                                          > > that's crap. Crush it and use as concrete aggregate, for countertops and
                                          > > sidewalks, etc. Use crushed glass in landscaping medians instead of rock,
                                          > > etc.
                                          > >
                                          > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:21 AM, JohnW <john.walker@ atcopower. ca<john.walker% 40atcopower. ca>>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Nick
                                          > >> The fee goes up with the size of the screen and peaks out at abouit $50.
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Call me a sceptic but IMHO most recycling programs are more about making
                                          > >> people feel good and have little if any economic or environmental
                                          > impact.
                                          > >>
                                          > >> there are some programs that do work well though. We pay a $0.05 deposit
                                          > on
                                          > >> beer and pop cans, more on the 1 litre and larger sizes. We get the
                                          > money
                                          > >> back when they are returned to a bottle depot. I don't kow how much we
                                          > >> subsidize the bottle depots but we don't have empties littering the
                                          > >> roadsides. Another good or maybe bad result, depending upon how you look
                                          > at
                                          > >> it, is that discarded cans are a form of revenue for street people.
                                          > >>
                                          > >> JohnW
                                          > >>
                                          > >> --- In hobbicast@yahoogrou ps.com <hobbicast%40yahoog roups.com> <hobbicast%
                                          > 40yahoogroups. com>, Nick
                                          > >> Andrews <nickjandrews@ ...> wrote:
                                          > >>> Depends, how much is the fee?
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:05 PM, JohnW <john.walker@ ...> wrote:
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>>>
                                          > >>>> Nick
                                          > >>>> In Alberta they are charging the recycling fee up front when you buy
                                          > >> the
                                          > >>>> TV. The worst part is that they charge the same for an LCD screen as
                                          > >> they
                                          > >>>> would for the same size CRT TV.
                                          > >>>>
                                          > >>>> Personally I think it is crap but if you accept the idea that TVs
                                          > >> should be
                                          > >>>> recycled then it does work.
                                          > >>>>
                                          > >>>> JohnW
                                          > >>>>
                                          > >>>>
                                          > >>>> --- In hobbicast@yahoogrou ps.com <hobbicast%40yahoog roups.com> <hobbicast%
                                          > 40yahoogroups. com><hobbicast%
                                          >
                                          > >> 40yahoogroups. com>, Nick
                                          > >>>> Andrews <nickjandrews@ > wrote:
                                          > >>>>> Hell, they aren't accepting TVs at the 'recycling' center here any
                                          > >> more.
                                          > >>>> I
                                          > >>>>> heard they are charging $5 each to dump them. What a joke, I'd just
                                          > >> bury
                                          > >>>> it
                                          > >>>>> in my trash can with the other stuff anyway if no one wanted it,
                                          > >> after I
                                          > >>>>> strip the circuit boards...
                                          > >>>>>
                                          > >>>>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Ken Durstine <kdurstine@> wrote:
                                          > >>>>>
                                          > >>>>>>
                                          > >>>>>> Howard sez:
                                          > >>>>>>
                                          > >>>>
                                          > >>>>
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>> --
                                          > >>> Nick A
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>> "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
                                          > >>> single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
                                          > >> safety
                                          > >>> deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical
                                          > >> Review
                                          > >>> of Pennsylvania, 1759
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>> "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names
                                          > the
                                          > >>> streets after them." Bill Vaughan
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>> "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil
                                          > men."
                                          > >>> Plato
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >

                                          --
                                          Nick A

                                          "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
                                          single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975

                                          "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
                                          deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review
                                          of Pennsylvania, 1759

                                          "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the
                                          streets after them." Bill Vaughan

                                          "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
                                          Plato

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • kdurstine
                                          ... Especially in this day and age where people have the idea that you can devote 100% of your attention 4 different ways. I see all the virtue applied to
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Jun 24, 2009
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Stone Tool <owly@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > You can design systems for your own use, but you can never predict the
                                            > depth of human stupidity..... what can go wrong WILL go wrong.
                                            >

                                            Especially in this day and age where people have the idea that you can devote 100% of your attention 4 different ways. I see all the virtue applied to "multi-tasking" and I have seen the results too. It is one thing to be able to juggle things and show some flexibility, but there is a need 100% focus on what you are doing at the moment also.

                                            You are 100% on track with your comment that recycling should be more of a front end business issue. A recycle-disposal path identified for a product before it is sold.



                                            Kenny
                                          • jds_garage
                                            Getting back to the original thread; You might want to take a look at wood gas rectifiers. They seem mechanicly very simmiliar to our idea but use a different
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Jun 24, 2009
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Getting back to the original thread;

                                              You might want to take a look at wood gas rectifiers. They seem mechanicly very simmiliar to our idea but use a different fuel. FEMA has some design and sizing advice on building one. http://wood-gas.blogspot.com/2008/01/fema-simplified-wood-gas-generator-in.html

                                              Youtube also has a large number of videos of more sofisticated models using coolers/condensers. Just search for "wood gas".

                                              All of this sounds very interesting but potentially dangerous. (Fire, explosions, poisonous gasses). What ever you do stay safe and try not to break to many EPA laws.

                                              JD
                                            • rchilso@netscape.net
                                              I have been reading these posts and was reminded of an article in mother earth news called P.E.G.A.S.U.S? which was about building a wood gassifier to run your
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Jun 26, 2009
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I have been reading these posts and was reminded of an article in mother earth news called P.E.G.A.S.U.S? which was about building a wood gassifier to run your car off of instead of gasoline.you can still find it in back issues on their website and it may help with the design you are looking for. no need to reinvent the wheel just modify it for your needs. thr combustion chamber/hearth section should be of high value to your project.


                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: JohnW <john.walker@...>
                                                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:11 pm
                                                Subject: [hobbicast] Re:Isoprene as a fuel



                                                Howard
                                                I remember seeing a news video of a tire fire. They were collecting "oil" that
                                                was running out from under the pile of tires. I suppose the heat of the fire
                                                was decomposing the tires underneath. There must not have been enough air or
                                                heat for the oil to start burning before it had traveled far enough away to cool
                                                off.

                                                You could test your ideas pretty easily at a bench scale before deciding whether
                                                it is worth scaling up. A non pressure vessel process would be a lot safer than
                                                a pressurized one.


                                                JohnW

                                                --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Stone Tool <owly@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Ken:
                                                > Pyrolysis is one of two processes that would suit my purposes.... and
                                                > the simpler, but less desirable of the two. The other is to accomplish
                                                > thermal depolymerization with heat alone.. no air. Heat would be
                                                > applied to the chamber by an external burner. The same thing is
                                                > accomplished but without some of the liabilities of carrying out
                                                > combustion in the chamber at the same time. All of the incondensable
                                                > gases..... and some of the condensate would be used to sustain the
                                                > process, and heat would be produced as well as a liquid fuel for heating
                                                > and / or other purposes (largely isoprene). The tremendous amount of
                                                > carbon produced by combustion in a low air environment would not be
                                                > there in the second process............ EPA??? What's that?
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Howard
                                                >
                                                > Ken Durstine wrote:
                                                > > "Pyrolysis" is the process of partially burning something with less
                                                > > than the normal amount of combustion air and then using the off gases
                                                > > as either a product or for further combustion with add'l combustion air.
                                                > > 25 years or so ago, I worked on a tire burner project that utilized a
                                                > > "fluidized bed" to burn the tires and generate process heat. But the
                                                > > project was canceled just prior to construction. The problems you will
                                                > > have burning tires include are how will you cope with all the
                                                > > reinforcing wires into the tires and how will you maintain something
                                                > > like a consta
                                                nt air/fuel ratio batch feeding entire tires as fuel.
                                                > > Cutting tires into chunks takes lots of horsepower.
                                                > >
                                                > > As you say, there is a bunch of energy in a tire if you can capture it,
                                                > > but getting it will be a real pain in the butt. Even if you are out in
                                                > > the sticks, the EPA will want to license your burner if it is very big.
                                                > > You will have to look into the regs to see where the EPA gets involved.
                                                > > Ignorance will not save you from a whopping big fine after the fact.
                                                > >
                                                > > Good luck
                                                > >
                                                > > Kenny
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > ------------------------------------
                                                > >
                                                > > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                > > this list does not accept attachments.
                                                > >
                                                > > Files area and list services are at:
                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                                                > >
                                                > > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                > > check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                                                > >
                                                > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                                > >
                                                > > List Owner:
                                                > > owly@...
                                                > >
                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >




                                                ------------------------------------

                                                For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                this list does not accept attachments.

                                                Files area and list services are at:
                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

                                                For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1

                                                Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

                                                List Owner:
                                                owly@...

                                                Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                mailto:hobbicast-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com




                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Stone Tool
                                                John: Wood gas has been around for a long time.... Long before any of us were a even a sparkle in anybodies eye...... and the technology is well known... I
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Jun 26, 2009
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  John:
                                                  Wood gas has been around for a long time.... Long before any of us
                                                  were a even a sparkle in anybodies eye...... and the technology is well
                                                  known... I have several articles on it... not including the one you
                                                  mentioned, and in fact have fairly direct experience with them dating
                                                  back nearly 30 years when a friend of mine build and used one.... and
                                                  drove a wood gas powered car around town for a number of years. I
                                                  learned a great deal from Gordon's work (my friend). The big difference
                                                  between what they do and what I want to do is that I intend to use an
                                                  external heat source rather than actually burning the tires directly to
                                                  produce the heat.... I don't want the crud..... the smoke and impurities
                                                  from poor combustion... only the gases. The gases will not carbonize
                                                  without oxygen. I intend to then condense the condensible materials,
                                                  and burn the vapors (externally) to carry on the process. With luck I
                                                  should get a relatively clean condensate which can be stored for later
                                                  use as fuel. A "breeder reactor" so to speak. That technology
                                                  exists....but is somewhat different from what most people have done with
                                                  wood gas.

                                                  Howard



                                                  rchilso@... wrote:
                                                  > I have been reading these posts and was reminded of an article in mother earth news called P.E.G.A.S.U.S? which was about building a wood gassifier to run your car off of instead of gasoline.you can still find it in back issues on their website and it may help with the design you are looking for. no need to reinvent the wheel just modify it for your needs. thr combustion chamber/hearth section should be of high value to your project.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                  > From: JohnW <john.walker@...>
                                                  > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:11 pm
                                                  > Subject: [hobbicast] Re:Isoprene as a fuel
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Howard
                                                  > I remember seeing a news video of a tire fire. They were collecting "oil" that
                                                  > was running out from under the pile of tires. I suppose the heat of the fire
                                                  > was decomposing the tires underneath. There must not have been enough air or
                                                  > heat for the oil to start burning before it had traveled far enough away to cool
                                                  > off.
                                                  >
                                                  > You could test your ideas pretty easily at a bench scale before deciding whether
                                                  > it is worth scaling up. A non pressure vessel process would be a lot safer than
                                                  > a pressurized one.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > JohnW
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Stone Tool <owly@...> wrote:
                                                  >> Ken:
                                                  >> Pyrolysis is one of two processes that would suit my purposes.... and
                                                  >> the simpler, but less desirable of the two. The other is to accomplish
                                                  >> thermal depolymerization with heat alone.. no air. Heat would be
                                                  >> applied to the chamber by an external burner. The same thing is
                                                  >> accomplished but without some of the liabilities of carrying out
                                                  >> combustion in the chamber at the same time. All of the incondensable
                                                  >> gases..... and some of the condensate would be used to sustain the
                                                  >> process, and heat would be produced as well as a liquid fuel for heating
                                                  >> and / or other purposes (largely isoprene). The tremendous amount of
                                                  >> carbon produced by combustion in a low air environment would not be
                                                  >> there in the second process............ EPA??? What's that?
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Howard
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Ken Durstine wrote:
                                                  >>> "Pyrolysis" is the process of partially burning something with less
                                                  >>> than the normal amount of combustion air and then using the off gases
                                                  >>> as either a product or for further combustion with add'l combustion air.
                                                  >>> 25 years or so ago, I worked on a tire burner project that utilized a
                                                  >>> "fluidized bed" to burn the tires and generate process heat. But the
                                                  >>> project was canceled just prior to construction. The problems you will
                                                  >>> have burning tires include are how will you cope with all the
                                                  >>> reinforcing wires into the tires and how will you maintain something
                                                  >>> like a consta
                                                  > nt air/fuel ratio batch feeding entire tires as fuel.
                                                  >>> Cutting tires into chunks takes lots of horsepower.
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> As you say, there is a bunch of energy in a tire if you can capture it,
                                                  >>> but getting it will be a real pain in the butt. Even if you are out in
                                                  >>> the sticks, the EPA will want to license your burner if it is very big.
                                                  >>> You will have to look into the regs to see where the EPA gets involved.
                                                  >>> Ignorance will not save you from a whopping big fine after the fact.
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> Good luck
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> Kenny
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> ------------------------------------
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                  >>> this list does not accept attachments.
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> Files area and list services are at:
                                                  >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                  >>> check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                  >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                                  >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                  >>> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> List Owner:
                                                  >>> owly@...
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>>
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------------------------------
                                                  >
                                                  > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                  > this list does not accept attachments.
                                                  >
                                                  > Files area and list services are at:
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                                                  >
                                                  > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                  > check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                                                  >
                                                  > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                  > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                                  >
                                                  > List Owner:
                                                  > owly@...
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > mailto:hobbicast-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------------------------------
                                                  >
                                                  > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                  > this list does not accept attachments.
                                                  >
                                                  > Files area and list services are at:
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                                                  >
                                                  > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                  > check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                                                  >
                                                  > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                  > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                                  >
                                                  > List Owner:
                                                  > owly@...
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                • Lance
                                                  added to files section [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Jun 29, 2009
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    added to files section



                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • JohnW
                                                    Howard I just came across this article on Yahoo news. http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-06/home-brewing-biochar-brooklyn JohnW
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Jul 2, 2009
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Howard
                                                      I just came across this article on Yahoo news.

                                                      http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-06/home-brewing-biochar-brooklyn


                                                      JohnW

                                                      --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Stone Tool <owly@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > John:
                                                      > Wood gas has been around for a long time.... Long before any of us
                                                      > were a even a sparkle in anybodies eye...... and the technology is well
                                                      > known... I have several articles on it... not including the one you
                                                      > mentioned, and in fact have fairly direct experience with them dating
                                                      > back nearly 30 years when a friend of mine build and used one.... and
                                                      > drove a wood gas powered car around town for a number of years. I
                                                      > learned a great deal from Gordon's work (my friend). The big difference
                                                      > between what they do and what I want to do is that I intend to use an
                                                      > external heat source rather than actually burning the tires directly to
                                                      > produce the heat.... I don't want the crud..... the smoke and impurities
                                                      > from poor combustion... only the gases. The gases will not carbonize
                                                      > without oxygen. I intend to then condense the condensible materials,
                                                      > and burn the vapors (externally) to carry on the process. With luck I
                                                      > should get a relatively clean condensate which can be stored for later
                                                      > use as fuel. A "breeder reactor" so to speak. That technology
                                                      > exists....but is somewhat different from what most people have done with
                                                      > wood gas.
                                                      >
                                                      > Howard
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > rchilso@... wrote:
                                                      > > I have been reading these posts and was reminded of an article in mother earth news called P.E.G.A.S.U.S? which was about building a wood gassifier to run your car off of instead of gasoline.you can still find it in back issues on their website and it may help with the design you are looking for. no need to reinvent the wheel just modify it for your needs. thr combustion chamber/hearth section should be of high value to your project.
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > -----Original Message-----
                                                      > > From: JohnW <john.walker@...>
                                                      > > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > > Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:11 pm
                                                      > > Subject: [hobbicast] Re:Isoprene as a fuel
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Howard
                                                      > > I remember seeing a news video of a tire fire. They were collecting "oil" that
                                                      > > was running out from under the pile of tires. I suppose the heat of the fire
                                                      > > was decomposing the tires underneath. There must not have been enough air or
                                                      > > heat for the oil to start burning before it had traveled far enough away to cool
                                                      > > off.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > You could test your ideas pretty easily at a bench scale before deciding whether
                                                      > > it is worth scaling up. A non pressure vessel process would be a lot safer than
                                                      > > a pressurized one.
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > JohnW
                                                      > >
                                                      > > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Stone Tool <owly@> wrote:
                                                      > >> Ken:
                                                      > >> Pyrolysis is one of two processes that would suit my purposes.... and
                                                      > >> the simpler, but less desirable of the two. The other is to accomplish
                                                      > >> thermal depolymerization with heat alone.. no air. Heat would be
                                                      > >> applied to the chamber by an external burner. The same thing is
                                                      > >> accomplished but without some of the liabilities of carrying out
                                                      > >> combustion in the chamber at the same time. All of the incondensable
                                                      > >> gases..... and some of the condensate would be used to sustain the
                                                      > >> process, and heat would be produced as well as a liquid fuel for heating
                                                      > >> and / or other purposes (largely isoprene). The tremendous amount of
                                                      > >> carbon produced by combustion in a low air environment would not be
                                                      > >> there in the second process............ EPA??? What's that?
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >> Howard
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >> Ken Durstine wrote:
                                                      > >>> "Pyrolysis" is the process of partially burning something with less
                                                      > >>> than the normal amount of combustion air and then using the off gases
                                                      > >>> as either a product or for further combustion with add'l combustion air.
                                                      > >>> 25 years or so ago, I worked on a tire burner project that utilized a
                                                      > >>> "fluidized bed" to burn the tires and generate process heat. But the
                                                      > >>> project was canceled just prior to construction. The problems you will
                                                      > >>> have burning tires include are how will you cope with all the
                                                      > >>> reinforcing wires into the tires and how will you maintain something
                                                      > >>> like a consta
                                                      > > nt air/fuel ratio batch feeding entire tires as fuel.
                                                      > >>> Cutting tires into chunks takes lots of horsepower.
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> As you say, there is a bunch of energy in a tire if you can capture it,
                                                      > >>> but getting it will be a real pain in the butt. Even if you are out in
                                                      > >>> the sticks, the EPA will want to license your burner if it is very big.
                                                      > >>> You will have to look into the regs to see where the EPA gets involved.
                                                      > >>> Ignorance will not save you from a whopping big fine after the fact.
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> Good luck
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> Kenny
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> ------------------------------------
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                      > >>> this list does not accept attachments.
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> Files area and list services are at:
                                                      > >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                      > >>> check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                      > >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                                      > >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                      > >>> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> List Owner:
                                                      > >>> owly@
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > ------------------------------------
                                                      > >
                                                      > > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                      > > this list does not accept attachments.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Files area and list services are at:
                                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                                                      > >
                                                      > > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                      > > check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                      > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                                      > >
                                                      > > List Owner:
                                                      > > owly@...
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > mailto:hobbicast-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > ------------------------------------
                                                      > >
                                                      > > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                      > > this list does not accept attachments.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Files area and list services are at:
                                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                                                      > >
                                                      > > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                      > > check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                      > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                                      > >
                                                      > > List Owner:
                                                      > > owly@...
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.