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lawn mower melt

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  • chucketn
    I am in the process of tearing down three freebie lawnmowers for their aluminum parts. Is there any special cleanup needed on the various parts? such as the
    Message 1 of 27 , Oct 4, 2008
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      I am in the process of tearing down three freebie lawnmowers for their
      aluminum parts. Is there any special cleanup needed on the various
      parts? such as the carbon on the head or piston? Or will melting to
      ingots be enough?
      On the first machine, even the gas tank is aluminum!I will flush it
      with water and let it dry on the charcoal fire before forging.
      I plan to heat the block pieces in a charcoal fire to aid in breaking
      them into pieces to fit the crucible. Any other
      suggestions/cautions/warnings?

      Chuck in E. Tennessee
    • nomad_medic
      Keeping in mind what the others have said about mag (to which I d agree with and remember to start checking for) I would say no, you don t really need extra
      Message 2 of 27 , Oct 7, 2008
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        Keeping in mind what the others have said about mag (to which I'd
        agree with and remember to start checking for) I would say no, you
        don't really need extra prep. Keep in mind about all I have made is
        aluminum cupcakes (ingots) but I have found that more crap on the
        mower just meant more dross to skim.
        Let me know what you come up with to bust it up for the crucible, I
        have had fair to midl'n success with a sledge and a sawzall.
      • Jeshua Lacock
        ... Greetings, There is a much easier way! I built a pit furnace (cost next to nothing), big enough to melt several entire engines, transmissions, rims, etc,
        Message 3 of 27 , Oct 7, 2008
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          On Oct 7, 2008, at 3:13 PM, nomad_medic wrote:

          > Keeping in mind what the others have said about mag (to which I'd
          > agree with and remember to start checking for) I would say no, you
          > don't really need extra prep. Keep in mind about all I have made is
          > aluminum cupcakes (ingots) but I have found that more crap on the
          > mower just meant more dross to skim.
          > Let me know what you come up with to bust it up for the crucible, I
          > have had fair to midl'n success with a sledge and a sawzall.



          Greetings,

          There is a much easier way!

          I built a pit furnace (cost next to nothing), big enough to melt
          several entire engines, transmissions, rims, etc, at once (it even
          melted a RV shell!) see:

          <http://openosx.com/hotspring/foundry/bertha2/bertha2.html>


          Also, my propane tank converted to an oil burner (that is portable and
          is what powers my pit furnace and tilt furnace) is powerful enough
          make big aluminum pieces turn to the "cake" stage without a furnace.
          When aluminum turns to cake stage, a tap with a sledge easily breaks
          it apart, see:

          <http://openosx.com/hotspring/foundry/propane-OIL-burner/>


          Cheers,

          Jeshua Lacock, Owner
          <http://OpenOSX.com>
          phone: 877.240.1364
        • Jack
          Unfortunately, I find pictures without captions to be less informative than the proverbial thousand words. Nice pics. Zero information. Jack ... is ... I ...
          Message 4 of 27 , Oct 7, 2008
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            Unfortunately, I find pictures without captions to be less
            informative than the proverbial thousand words.

            Nice pics.

            Zero information.
            Jack





            --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > On Oct 7, 2008, at 3:13 PM, nomad_medic wrote:
            >
            > > Keeping in mind what the others have said about mag (to which I'd
            > > agree with and remember to start checking for) I would say no, you
            > > don't really need extra prep. Keep in mind about all I have made
            is
            > > aluminum cupcakes (ingots) but I have found that more crap on the
            > > mower just meant more dross to skim.
            > > Let me know what you come up with to bust it up for the crucible,
            I
            > > have had fair to midl'n success with a sledge and a sawzall.
            >
            >
            >
            > Greetings,
            >
            > There is a much easier way!
            >
            > I built a pit furnace (cost next to nothing), big enough to melt
            > several entire engines, transmissions, rims, etc, at once (it even
            > melted a RV shell!) see:
            >
            > <http://openosx.com/hotspring/foundry/bertha2/bertha2.html>
            >
            >
            > Also, my propane tank converted to an oil burner (that is portable
            and
            > is what powers my pit furnace and tilt furnace) is powerful enough
            > make big aluminum pieces turn to the "cake" stage without a
            furnace.
            > When aluminum turns to cake stage, a tap with a sledge easily
            breaks
            > it apart, see:
            >
            > <http://openosx.com/hotspring/foundry/propane-OIL-burner/>
            >
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
            > <http://OpenOSX.com>
            > phone: 877.240.1364
            >
          • Jeshua Lacock
            ... Personally I think the images speak for themselves. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. Cheers, Jeshua Lacock, Owner
            Message 5 of 27 , Oct 7, 2008
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              On Oct 7, 2008, at 6:00 PM, Jack wrote:

              > Nice pics.
              >
              > Zero information.

              Personally I think the images speak for themselves. If you have any
              questions, please feel free to ask.


              Cheers,

              Jeshua Lacock, Owner
              <http://OpenOSX.com>
              phone: 877.240.1364
            • jbrennan3@austin.rr.com
              It is pretty much a third world set up and not very explicit if you don t know the principle and or have never seen this type beast. It looks to be a oil
              Message 6 of 27 , Oct 7, 2008
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                It is pretty much a third world set up and not very explicit if you don't know the principle and or have never seen this type beast. It looks to be a oil fired .. it is not very different from a cupola or cupolet -- shaft furnace that doesn't use coke. Things like this are used to recover nonferrous scrap . they would usually be a little less crude.
                jesse
                ---- Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:
                >
                > On Oct 7, 2008, at 6:00 PM, Jack wrote:
                >
                > > Nice pics.
                > >
                > > Zero information.
                >
                > Personally I think the images speak for themselves. If you have any
                > questions, please feel free to ask.
                >
                >
                > Cheers,
                >
                > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                > <http://OpenOSX.com>
                > phone: 877.240.1364
                >
              • nomad_medic
                Though the pictures don t tell the whole story, I have looked at building a waste oil burner and understand what is shown (I think). Even though I wanted to
                Message 7 of 27 , Oct 8, 2008
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                  Though the pictures don't tell the whole story, I have looked at
                  building a waste oil burner and understand what is shown (I think).
                  Even though I wanted to build one,I couldn't think of a use for such a
                  BIG fire for what I play with. Now as a pre-ingot
                  make-smaller-chunks-for-the-crucible, that might be something different.
                  How 'big' (CFM) is your blower?

                  Nathan
                • Jeshua Lacock
                  ... The bigger the oil tank (pool) the bigger the flame. I have built a small one that is closer to BTUs to my Reil burner. I want to build a mini one from a
                  Message 8 of 27 , Oct 8, 2008
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                    On Oct 8, 2008, at 6:25 AM, nomad_medic wrote:

                    > Though the pictures don't tell the whole story, I have looked at
                    > building a waste oil burner and understand what is shown (I think).
                    > Even though I wanted to build one,I couldn't think of a use for such a
                    > BIG fire for what I play with.

                    The bigger the oil tank (pool) the bigger the flame.

                    I have built a small one that is closer to BTUs to my Reil burner. I
                    want to build a mini one from a hand held propane tank...

                    > Now as a pre-ingot
                    > make-smaller-chunks-for-the-crucible, that might be something
                    > different.
                    > How 'big' (CFM) is your blower?

                    I honestly don't know. I got it from the dump (works great), but I
                    painted it, and I just went looked at it and didn't see any specs.

                    I hooked it up to a rheostat so I have complete control, and unless I
                    am using it for two burners (at once) I never crank it all the way up.
                    I think it came out of an typical home AC unit.


                    Cheers,

                    Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                    <http://OpenOSX.com>
                    phone: 877.240.1364
                  • Rexarino
                    It s interesting to see the answers to this across the casting, hobbicast, and gingery_machines groups. In addition to Jeshua s oil fired option, my friend Joe
                    Message 9 of 27 , Oct 8, 2008
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                      It's interesting to see the answers to this across the casting, hobbicast,
                      and gingery_machines groups.

                      In addition to Jeshua's oil fired option, my friend Joe built a dirt simple
                      hot-short furnace from a 55 gallon drum and a 1 1/4 inch Mike Porter
                      burner. The outer wall of the furnace is the bottom third of the drum. The
                      inner wall is an equivalent height piece cut from the mid section of the
                      drum, and sliced vertically so it overlaps a bit. Make the inside small
                      enough to put a couple inches of vermiculite or sand between the two layers,
                      but before you fill it, cut a hole for a pipe for the burner to stick
                      through and put it (the pipe) through both the outside and the liner. Fill
                      with sand or vermiculite and melt your wheels or lawnmowers or whatever.

                      If you're melting something too large for a 55 gallon drum, dig a pit and
                      make a place to direct the burner at the casting to be reduced. The less
                      excess air in the pit, the faster it works. The dryer the dirt, the better
                      it works. The more cover you provide to enclose the heat, the better it
                      works. The bigger the fire, the faster it works. Those are the criteria,
                      it's really simple, you just have to go do it!

                      The burner is from a design from Mike Porter's "Gas Burners For Forges,
                      Furnaces and Kilns", ISBN: 1879535203

                      Here's a picture from GEARS where we crumbled wheels in about 15 minutes

                      http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/view/2c26?b=5

                      http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/photos/view/f4b5?b=9

                      The burner can be fired from a propane barbeque tank and a higher pressure
                      regulator. We were using a 100 pound tank (in the background) at about 8
                      psi. It costs me about $70 a year in propane to do all the casting and
                      playing with fire at my house, and I'm not willing to deal with the mess of
                      an oil fired unit for that.

                      Rex



                      On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 9:23 AM, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:

                      >
                      > On Oct 8, 2008, at 6:25 AM, nomad_medic wrote:
                      >
                      > > Though the pictures don't tell the whole story, I have looked at
                      > > building a waste oil burner and understand what is shown (I think).
                      > > Even though I wanted to build one,I couldn't think of a use for such a
                      > > BIG fire for what I play with.
                      >
                      > The bigger the oil tank (pool) the bigger the flame.
                      >
                      > I have built a small one that is closer to BTUs to my Reil burner. I
                      > want to build a mini one from a hand held propane tank...
                      >
                      > <snip>
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Lyle
                      Speaking from experience, cutting up old aluminum wheels with a bandsaw is a bitch. But they will get hot enough to break apart by just placing them over the
                      Message 10 of 27 , Oct 8, 2008
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                        Speaking from experience, cutting up old aluminum wheels with a
                        bandsaw is a bitch. But they will get hot enough to break apart by
                        just placing them over the exhaust of the crucible furnace. But you
                        need to baby sit it as they can actually melt and start making a
                        mess. Not really recommended but it does work.
                        LL

                        --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Rexarino <rexarino@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > It's interesting to see the answers to this across the casting,
                        hobbicast,
                        > and gingery_machines groups.
                        >
                        > In addition to Jeshua's oil fired option, my friend Joe built a
                        dirt simple
                        > hot-short furnace from a 55 gallon drum and a 1 1/4 inch Mike Porter
                        > burner. The outer wall of the furnace is the bottom third of the
                        drum. The
                        > inner wall is an equivalent height piece cut from the mid section
                        of the
                        > drum, and sliced vertically so it overlaps a bit. Make the inside
                        small
                        > enough to put a couple inches of vermiculite or sand between the
                        two layers,
                        > but before you fill it, cut a hole for a pipe for the burner to
                        stick
                        > through and put it (the pipe) through both the outside and the
                        liner. Fill
                        > with sand or vermiculite and melt your wheels or lawnmowers or
                        whatever.
                        >
                        > If you're melting something too large for a 55 gallon drum, dig a
                        pit and
                        > make a place to direct the burner at the casting to be reduced.
                        The less
                        > excess air in the pit, the faster it works. The dryer the dirt,
                        the better
                        > it works. The more cover you provide to enclose the heat, the
                        better it
                        > works. The bigger the fire, the faster it works. Those are the
                        criteria,
                        > it's really simple, you just have to go do it!
                        >
                        > The burner is from a design from Mike Porter's "Gas Burners For
                        Forges,
                        > Furnaces and Kilns", ISBN: 1879535203
                        >
                        > Here's a picture from GEARS where we crumbled wheels in about 15
                        minutes
                        >
                        > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/photos/view/2c26?b=5
                        >
                        > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/photos/view/f4b5?
                        b=9
                        >
                        > The burner can be fired from a propane barbeque tank and a higher
                        pressure
                        > regulator. We were using a 100 pound tank (in the background) at
                        about 8
                        > psi. It costs me about $70 a year in propane to do all the casting
                        and
                        > playing with fire at my house, and I'm not willing to deal with the
                        mess of
                        > an oil fired unit for that.
                        >
                        > Rex
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 9:23 AM, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > > On Oct 8, 2008, at 6:25 AM, nomad_medic wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > Though the pictures don't tell the whole story, I have looked at
                        > > > building a waste oil burner and understand what is shown (I
                        think).
                        > > > Even though I wanted to build one,I couldn't think of a use for
                        such a
                        > > > BIG fire for what I play with.
                        > >
                        > > The bigger the oil tank (pool) the bigger the flame.
                        > >
                        > > I have built a small one that is closer to BTUs to my Reil
                        burner. I
                        > > want to build a mini one from a hand held propane tank...
                        > >
                        > > <snip>
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Jeshua Lacock
                        ... Hi there, I just pour 5 gallon containers (supplied from restaurants) right into my 55 gallon drum (through a window screen). Usually, I don t even touch
                        Message 11 of 27 , Oct 8, 2008
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                          On Oct 8, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Rexarino wrote:

                          > The burner can be fired from a propane barbeque tank and a higher
                          > pressure
                          > regulator. We were using a 100 pound tank (in the background) at
                          > about 8
                          > psi. It costs me about $70 a year in propane to do all the casting and
                          > playing with fire at my house, and I'm not willing to deal with the
                          > mess of
                          > an oil fired unit for that


                          Hi there,

                          I just pour 5 gallon containers (supplied from restaurants) right into
                          my 55 gallon drum (through a window screen). Usually, I don't even
                          touch the oil. Once it is in my drum, I just use a gate to control it,
                          again don't even touch it.

                          5 gallons of oil has the same amount of BTUs as 32.25 pounds of
                          propane. So at $3 per pound, 5 gallons of oil is worth $96.75. I
                          usually get about 6 containers at once which is the equivalent of
                          $580, which lasts me a long time! Personally I think that dumping a
                          few containers into a bigger container is easily worth $580!

                          Not to mention the additional benefits of oil include: it is non-
                          explosive (unlike propane), you don't have to worry about the tank
                          freezing up /petering out right when you are in the middle of a
                          project, is considered recycling by the EPA (it is carbon neutral),
                          oil is non-toxic (propane is a carcinogen), and burns much cleaner
                          (less NOX - smells better too)...


                          Cheers,

                          Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                          <http://OpenOSX.com>
                          phone: 877.240.1364
                        • Jack
                          Well, yes, they would speak to you...you already know what they are talking about. But I don t - it seems I am completely ignorant of both the principle and
                          Message 12 of 27 , Oct 8, 2008
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                            Well, yes, they would speak to you...you already know what they are
                            talking about.

                            But I don't - it seems I am completely ignorant of both the principle
                            and the method of application (well, not completely...I do know that
                            oil will burn...)

                            And YES! Please! I would appreciate a bit of a description of both
                            the principle and the application as shown in your photos.
                            Jack





                            --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > On Oct 7, 2008, at 6:00 PM, Jack wrote:
                            >
                            > > Nice pics.
                            > >
                            > > Zero information.
                            >
                            > Personally I think the images speak for themselves. If you have
                            any
                            > questions, please feel free to ask.
                            >
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            >
                            > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                            > <http://OpenOSX.com>
                            > phone: 877.240.1364
                            >
                          • Rexarino
                            ... Only if you efficiently burn it. Your method will not extract nearly all the btu s from the oil. ... No, it s only worth what you paid for it. Check your
                            Message 13 of 27 , Oct 8, 2008
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                              On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:

                              >
                              > On Oct 8, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Rexarino wrote:
                              >
                              > > The burner can be fired from a propane barbeque tank and a higher
                              > > pressure
                              > > regulator. We were using a 100 pound tank (in the background) at
                              > > about 8
                              > > psi. It costs me about $70 a year in propane to do all the casting and
                              > > playing with fire at my house, and I'm not willing to deal with the
                              > > mess of
                              > > an oil fired unit for that
                              >
                              >
                              > Hi there,
                              >
                              > I just pour 5 gallon containers (supplied from restaurants) right into
                              > my 55 gallon drum (through a window screen). Usually, I don't even
                              > touch the oil. Once it is in my drum, I just use a gate to control it,
                              > again don't even touch it.
                              >
                              > 5 gallons of oil has the same amount of BTUs as 32.25 pounds of
                              > propane.


                              Only if you efficiently burn it. Your method will not extract nearly all
                              the btu's from the oil.


                              > So at $3 per pound, 5 gallons of oil is worth $96.75.


                              No, it's only worth what you paid for it. Check your math, propane is sold
                              by the gallon ($3). My first full 100 pound propane tank came from
                              Craigslist for $25, but that doesn't mean a years worth of propane use is
                              $25. Restaurants here in Portland are actively recycling their oil into a
                              thriving biodiesel business, and I would actually need to $buy$ it in 55
                              gallon lots - no thanks.

                              As for the dangers of propane (explosive), how about the dangers of oil
                              (slippery) and the enhancement to my close neighbors (smelly). I couldn't
                              freeze my 100 pound tank with a 20 psi draw, and 2 barbeque tanks avoid all
                              problems of freeze up or petering out. The burnt food waste in the oil is
                              carcinogenic, so you loose on that round, and NOX is a product of the heat
                              of combustion, so you can't possibly be trying to convince me your burner is
                              colder, can you?

                              It doesn't "smell better", it just has a much stronger odor, and nobody here
                              likes the smell of burnt fries anyway. I would have 4 neighbors on my b*tt
                              in a flash if it started smelling like a commercial fish fry or a McDonallds
                              every Wednesday

                              Your system works - so does mine - let's drop the ego argument and agree
                              there are different ways to do it.

                              Cheers to you,
                              Rex


                              I
                              > usually get about 6 containers at once which is the equivalent of
                              > $580, which lasts me a long time! Personally I think that dumping a
                              > few containers into a bigger container is easily worth $580!
                              >
                              > Not to mention the additional benefits of oil include: it is non-
                              > explosive (unlike propane), you don't have to worry about the tank
                              > freezing up /petering out right when you are in the middle of a
                              > project, is considered recycling by the EPA (it is carbon neutral),
                              > oil is non-toxic (propane is a carcinogen), and burns much cleaner
                              > (less NOX - smells better too)...
                              >
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              >
                              > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                              > <http://OpenOSX.com>
                              > phone: 877.240.1364
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Jeshua Lacock
                              ... The pit furnace is really just a hole in the ground, lined with cast- able refractory, with a drain port and two ports for dual oil burners (using my
                              Message 14 of 27 , Oct 8, 2008
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                                On Oct 8, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Jack wrote:

                                > Well, yes, they would speak to you...you already know what they are
                                > talking about.
                                >
                                > But I don't - it seems I am completely ignorant of both the principle
                                > and the method of application (well, not completely...I do know that
                                > oil will burn...)
                                >
                                > And YES! Please! I would appreciate a bit of a description of both
                                > the principle and the application as shown in your photos.


                                The pit furnace is really just a hole in the ground, lined with cast-
                                able refractory, with a "drain" port and two ports for dual oil
                                burners (using my converted propane tank design). I have two stainless
                                steel doors (salvaged from the dump) lined with fiber blanket
                                (kaowool). The doors are optional - it melts without it, but is more
                                efficient and get the whole thing more evenly heated. The smoke stake
                                is for when I close the doors. I use one burner most the time (for
                                aluminum) - two burners will melt iron in it...

                                Here is a bit for the oil burner (posted to this list in 2006 - let me
                                know if you have any questions):

                                Begin forwarded message:

                                >> That looks very interesting..."That's HOT!" Is it hard to keep the
                                >> supply from getting clogged up? I tried to build a mother earth oil
                                >> stove and found that if you get the oil preheated, it cloggs...I
                                >> imagine that with your design...the oil dripping in the back...it
                                >> keeps the oil cooler.
                                >
                                > Thanks Dave! Very hot indeed! I have some even 'hotter' (full-
                                > throttle) pictures of my dump furnace running from the same
                                > converted propane bottle oil burner melting my first iron (in a
                                > furnace) at:
                                >
                                > <http://openosx.com/hotspring/foundry/melt-iron/melt-iron.html>
                                >
                                >
                                > I have not had a clog yet.
                                >
                                > The oil gets "pre-heated" in the actual burner (you should see that
                                > sucker go with about 3 gallons of oil in it - wooohooo!). As long as
                                > the oil is viscous enough to flow as fast/faster as it is consumed,
                                > and the supply pipes are bigger than the impurities (ie chicken
                                > bits) than you should not experience a clog (if you do you just need
                                > bigger plumbing).
                                >
                                > I did have a problem when its cold outside with not enough oil
                                > reaching the burner as I wanted to burn (oil was too viscous) - so I
                                > just pump my 155 F degree hotspring through a copper heat exchanger
                                > (the 7th picture on that page), and have not had that problem since
                                > then. Most people don't have free hot water coming out of the
                                > ground, but a small fire/hotplate under your oil supply would be
                                > adequate.
                                >
                                > In fact, if you did ever experience a clog, you can even pour the
                                > oil directly into the burner with a funnel...

                                and:

                                Begin forwarded message:

                                >> So the burner is really that simple? Drip oil into the stream of
                                >> air and pre-heat it in a small metal box lined with refractory?
                                >
                                > Yes - very, very simple. Although it is not the dripping in a stream
                                > of air that makes this burner design work - it is the oil fire in
                                > the bottom of the propane tank. Imagine starting an oil fire (this
                                > is always a bad thing in a restaurant) and then trying to extinguish
                                > it by blowing forced air - it won't go out - it just gets really
                                > FIRECE.

                                and:

                                > On Sep 12, 2006, at 12:00 PM, Greg Robinson wrote:
                                >
                                >> If you had the time, I'd really benefit from seeing a sectional
                                >> drawing
                                >> (doodle) that shows what's going on inside. I'm not clear on
                                >> whether the
                                >> flame is generated from a 'wet spot' where the oil is dripping on
                                >> to the
                                >> refractory or is you have a pool of oil, the entire surface of
                                >> which is
                                >> ablaze.
                                >
                                > (lets try this again - yahoo ate my spaces!)
                                >
                                > Hi Greg,
                                >
                                > The latter:
                                >
                                > Here is a side "doodle":
                                >
                                > @ = propane bottle
                                > $ = exhaust/flame
                                > * = oil
                                > _ = intake
                                > .. = air
                                >
                                > ..............@@@@@@@@@@@
                                > .............@.......................................@
                                > $$........@........................................@_______
                                > $$$$$$
                                > $....................................................................
                                > $$$$$$$$$$................................. ________
                                > .............@ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ @
                                > ...............@**********************@
                                > ................@@@@@@@@@@
                                >
                                > So, the bigger the pool/surface area of oil - the bigger/hotter the
                                > exhaust...
                                >
                                >
                                >> Sorry for being slow on the uptak
                                >
                                > Not at all - many people (including my dad like this sort of
                                > clarification)
                                >
                                > I hope this helps - let me know if you have any other musings.

                                and:

                                Begin forwarded message:

                                >> What size of propane cylinder did you use? I've not seen any of the
                                >> size you pictured. Around here a 25 pounder is the smallest I iknow
                                >> of.
                                >
                                > I have been using a 7lb propane bottle. I bet that a 25 pound bottle
                                > would be enough power to melt an entire automobile (at once - grin)!
                                > But so long as you can control the amount of oil in the bottle -
                                > thats what determines how much heat it puts out. For example, if I
                                > have about a gallon of oil in the propane bottle, it would put out
                                > about 1/3 of the flame if it had 3 gallons in the bottle.
                                >
                                > So the power is scalable up to the maximum amount of oil the burner
                                > can hold...
                                >
                                > But even so, 25lb bottle is a big one! There are no shortage of a
                                > variety of different size propane bottles from my local county dump
                                > (they 'expire' so people just junk them). And, each bottle I have
                                > salvaged, you get an added bonus of some scrap brass (usually the
                                > valve is brass)...
                                >
                                > Oh - and my dremel tool cuts the holes like butter (put my airr
                                > compressor to shame). Make sure you fill that bottle with water
                                > before you start cutting into it....



                                Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                                <http://OpenOSX.com>
                                phone: 877.240.1364
                              • Jeshua Lacock
                                ... Based on what? It is complete combustion. Sure there is loss, but that is the law of thermodynamics (entropy). ... Up here it is sold by the pound and is
                                Message 15 of 27 , Oct 8, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  On Oct 8, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Rexarino wrote:

                                  > > I just pour 5 gallon containers (supplied from restaurants) right
                                  > into
                                  > > my 55 gallon drum (through a window screen). Usually, I don't even
                                  > > touch the oil. Once it is in my drum, I just use a gate to control
                                  > it,
                                  > > again don't even touch it.
                                  > >
                                  > > 5 gallons of oil has the same amount of BTUs as 32.25 pounds of
                                  > > propane.
                                  >
                                  > Only if you efficiently burn it. Your method will not extract nearly
                                  > all
                                  > the btu's from the oil.

                                  Based on what? It is complete combustion. Sure there is loss, but that
                                  is the law of thermodynamics (entropy).

                                  > > So at $3 per pound, 5 gallons of oil is worth $96.75.
                                  >
                                  > No, it's only worth what you paid for it. Check your math, propane
                                  > is sold
                                  > by the gallon ($3). My first full 100 pound propane tank came from
                                  > Craigslist for $25, but that doesn't mean a years worth of propane
                                  > use is
                                  > $25. Restaurants here in Portland are actively recycling their oil
                                  > into a
                                  > thriving biodiesel business, and I would actually need to $buy$ it
                                  > in 55
                                  > gallon lots - no thanks.

                                  Up here it is sold by the pound and is really expensive.

                                  > As for the dangers of propane (explosive), how about the dangers of
                                  > oil
                                  > (slippery)

                                  I don't see how the oil being "slippery" is a dangerous issue, you
                                  don't actually hold the oil or burner or anything.

                                  Propane explosion is, and people die every year from it.

                                  > and the enhancement to my close neighbors (smelly).

                                  I personally think propane smells like death while oil smells like
                                  life. This is just my opinion and not based on an empirical evidence.

                                  > I couldn't
                                  > freeze my 100 pound tank with a 20 psi draw, and 2 barbeque tanks
                                  > avoid all
                                  > problems of freeze up or petering out.

                                  I wasn't specifically talking about your 100 pound tank. I was just
                                  saying it is something people don't have to worry about. Many people
                                  have smaller tanks (such as myself) and is an issue that has been
                                  discussed on this list several times.

                                  > The burnt food waste in the oil is
                                  > carcinogenic, so you loose on that round, and NOX is a product of
                                  > the heat
                                  > of combustion, so you can't possibly be trying to convince me your
                                  > burner is
                                  > colder, can you?

                                  I was trying to say that propane itself is a carcinogen while oil is
                                  not.

                                  > It doesn't "smell better", it just has a much stronger odor, and
                                  > nobody here

                                  I don't mind getting a whiff of burning oil, but I do mind getting a
                                  whiff of propane burning.

                                  > Your system works - so does mine - let's drop the ego argument and
                                  > agree
                                  > there are different ways to do it.


                                  I agree (I have a propane burner too), this has nothing to do with my
                                  ego. I just don't agree with your statement that oil is not worth
                                  because of the mess. Its really not an issue with the proper setup,
                                  and I think there are several benefits that make up for the slight
                                  inconvenience of oil.


                                  Cheers,

                                  Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                                  <http://OpenOSX.com>
                                  phone: 877.240.1364
                                • Rexarino
                                  I will amend my statement: Oil is not worth using for me, because of opposite circumstances to yours . The benefit of propane for me, is the
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Oct 8, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    <snip>
                                    I will amend my statement: Oil is not worth using "for me, because of
                                    opposite circumstances to yours". The benefit of propane "for me, is the
                                    simplicity and multiple uses at reasonable cost, and not dealing with a 55
                                    gallon container of used oil". I spent too long as an auto mechanic to
                                    ever want to dip my hands in oil again - well, except occasional lotion
                                    after a muddy garden session.

                                    Cheers,
                                    Rex


                                    > I agree (I have a propane burner too), this has nothing to do with my
                                    > ego. I just don't agree with your statement that oil is not worth
                                    > because of the mess. Its really not an issue with the proper setup,
                                    > and I think there are several benefits that make up for the slight
                                    > inconvenience of oil.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Cheers,
                                    >
                                    > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                                    > <http://OpenOSX.com>
                                    > phone: 877.240.1364
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > -
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Lyle
                                    Personally, I d rather use fuel oil for a foundry furnace. I fill a couple of 100 lb tanks every month or so and have them freeze up during the winter months
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Oct 9, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Personally, I'd rather use fuel oil for a foundry furnace. I fill a
                                      couple of 100 lb tanks every month or so and have them freeze up
                                      during the winter months if I try to cast bronze. This is even with a
                                      dual tank system. If anyone has a decent fuel oil burner design not
                                      involving pumps please let me know.
                                      LL

                                      --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On Oct 8, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Rexarino wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > The burner can be fired from a propane barbeque tank and a
                                      higher
                                      > > pressure
                                      > > regulator. We were using a 100 pound tank (in the background) at
                                      > > about 8
                                      > > psi. It costs me about $70 a year in propane to do all the
                                      casting and
                                      > > playing with fire at my house, and I'm not willing to deal with
                                      the
                                      > > mess of
                                      > > an oil fired unit for that
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Hi there,
                                      >
                                      > I just pour 5 gallon containers (supplied from restaurants) right
                                      into
                                      > my 55 gallon drum (through a window screen). Usually, I don't even
                                      > touch the oil. Once it is in my drum, I just use a gate to control
                                      it,
                                      > again don't even touch it.
                                      >
                                      > 5 gallons of oil has the same amount of BTUs as 32.25 pounds of
                                      > propane. So at $3 per pound, 5 gallons of oil is worth $96.75. I
                                      > usually get about 6 containers at once which is the equivalent of
                                      > $580, which lasts me a long time! Personally I think that dumping
                                      a
                                      > few containers into a bigger container is easily worth $580!
                                      >
                                      > Not to mention the additional benefits of oil include: it is non-
                                      > explosive (unlike propane), you don't have to worry about the tank
                                      > freezing up /petering out right when you are in the middle of a
                                      > project, is considered recycling by the EPA (it is carbon
                                      neutral),
                                      > oil is non-toxic (propane is a carcinogen), and burns much cleaner
                                      > (less NOX - smells better too)...
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Cheers,
                                      >
                                      > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                                      > <http://OpenOSX.com>
                                      > phone: 877.240.1364
                                      >
                                    • Ron Thompson
                                      ... There are several oil related pages. -- Ron Thompson Riding my 07 XL883C Sportster On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Oct 9, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Just use a household oil burner. Here is what I did:
                                        > http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/

                                        There are several oil related pages.
                                        --


                                        Ron Thompson
                                        Riding my '07 XL883C Sportster
                                        On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast,
                                        right beside the Kennedy Space Center,
                                        USA

                                        http://www.plansandprojects.com
                                        My hobby pages are here:
                                        http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/

                                        Visit the castinghobby FAQ:
                                        http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/

                                        Add yourself to the member map here:
                                        http://www.frappr.com/castinghobby

                                        Want to have some fun? The next time you're at McDonald's, wait until
                                        the kid has your change ready and then say "Wait, I've got the two cents."
                                        -Ron Thompson


                                        Lyle wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Personally, I'd rather use fuel oil for a foundry furnace. I fill a
                                        > couple of 100 lb tanks every month or so and have them freeze up
                                        > during the winter months if I try to cast bronze. This is even with a
                                        > dual tank system. If anyone has a decent fuel oil burner design not
                                        > involving pumps please let me know.
                                        > LL
                                        >
                                      • Jeshua Lacock
                                        ... Hi Lyle, My setup just uses gravity flow, and the oil is atomized by the heat. Only after the oil is vapor can it burn with this method... I honestly don t
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Oct 9, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          On Oct 9, 2008, at 12:28 PM, Lyle wrote:

                                          > Personally, I'd rather use fuel oil for a foundry furnace. I fill a
                                          > couple of 100 lb tanks every month or so and have them freeze up
                                          > during the winter months if I try to cast bronze. This is even with a
                                          > dual tank system. If anyone has a decent fuel oil burner design not
                                          > involving pumps please let me know.


                                          Hi Lyle,

                                          My setup just uses gravity flow, and the oil is atomized by the heat.
                                          Only after the oil is vapor can it burn with this method...

                                          I honestly don't know what the difference between fuel oil and
                                          vegetable oil, but I suspect that they would be interchangeable.

                                          You can probably convert a tank into a burner and testing it out in
                                          about an hour with little to no money...


                                          Cheers,

                                          Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                                          <http://OpenOSX.com>
                                          phone: 877.240.1364
                                        • Dan Brewer
                                          How big of a burner are you using? With my 1 1/2 inch porter style it doesnt freez up at any time. Dan in Auburn ... [Non-text portions of this message have
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Oct 9, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            How big of a burner are you using? With my 1 1/2 inch porter style it
                                            doesnt freez up at any time.

                                            Dan in Auburn



                                            On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Lyle <creepinogie@...> wrote:

                                            > Personally, I'd rather use fuel oil for a foundry furnace. I fill a
                                            > couple of 100 lb tanks every month or so and have them freeze up
                                            > during the winter months if I try to cast bronze. This is even with a
                                            > dual tank system. If anyone has a decent fuel oil burner design not
                                            > involving pumps please let me know.
                                            > LL
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com <hobbicast%40yahoogroups.com>, Jeshua
                                            > Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > On Oct 8, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Rexarino wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > > The burner can be fired from a propane barbeque tank and a
                                            > higher
                                            > > > pressure
                                            > > > regulator. We were using a 100 pound tank (in the background) at
                                            > > > about 8
                                            > > > psi. It costs me about $70 a year in propane to do all the
                                            > casting and
                                            > > > playing with fire at my house, and I'm not willing to deal with
                                            > the
                                            > > > mess of
                                            > > > an oil fired unit for that
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Hi there,
                                            > >
                                            > > I just pour 5 gallon containers (supplied from restaurants) right
                                            > into
                                            > > my 55 gallon drum (through a window screen). Usually, I don't even
                                            > > touch the oil. Once it is in my drum, I just use a gate to control
                                            > it,
                                            > > again don't even touch it.
                                            > >
                                            > > 5 gallons of oil has the same amount of BTUs as 32.25 pounds of
                                            > > propane. So at $3 per pound, 5 gallons of oil is worth $96.75. I
                                            > > usually get about 6 containers at once which is the equivalent of
                                            > > $580, which lasts me a long time! Personally I think that dumping
                                            > a
                                            > > few containers into a bigger container is easily worth $580!
                                            > >
                                            > > Not to mention the additional benefits of oil include: it is non-
                                            > > explosive (unlike propane), you don't have to worry about the tank
                                            > > freezing up /petering out right when you are in the middle of a
                                            > > project, is considered recycling by the EPA (it is carbon
                                            > neutral),
                                            > > oil is non-toxic (propane is a carcinogen), and burns much cleaner
                                            > > (less NOX - smells better too)...
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Cheers,
                                            > >
                                            > > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                                            > > <http://OpenOSX.com>
                                            > > phone: 877.240.1364
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Rupert
                                            Hello Dan, I think your forgetting that some of us live in cooler climates than Texas. :-( A 1 1/2 porter burner and other burners draw enough propane from a
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Oct 9, 2008
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hello Dan,
                                              I think your forgetting that some of us live in cooler climates than
                                              Texas. :-( A 1 1/2" porter burner and other burners draw enough propane
                                              from a 100 lb bottle to freeze it up easily when the temp drops to -20C
                                              (0F to you).
                                              Rupert


                                              Dan Brewer wrote:
                                              > How big of a burner are you using? With my 1 1/2 inch porter style it
                                              > doesnt freez up at any time.
                                              >
                                              > Dan in Auburn
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Lyle <creepinogie@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >> Personally, I'd rather use fuel oil for a foundry furnace. I fill a
                                              >> couple of 100 lb tanks every month or so and have them freeze up
                                              >> during the winter months if I try to cast bronze. This is even with a
                                              >> dual tank system. If anyone has a decent fuel oil burner design not
                                              >> involving pumps please let me know.
                                              >> LL
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com <hobbicast%40yahoogroups.com>, Jeshua
                                              >> Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >>> On Oct 8, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Rexarino wrote:
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>> The burner can be fired from a propane barbeque tank and a
                                              >>>>
                                              >> higher
                                              >>
                                              >>>> pressure
                                              >>>> regulator. We were using a 100 pound tank (in the background) at
                                              >>>> about 8
                                              >>>> psi. It costs me about $70 a year in propane to do all the
                                              >>>>
                                              >> casting and
                                              >>
                                              >>>> playing with fire at my house, and I'm not willing to deal with
                                              >>>>
                                              >> the
                                              >>
                                              >>>> mess of
                                              >>>> an oil fired unit for that
                                              >>>>
                                              >>> Hi there,
                                              >>>
                                              >>> I just pour 5 gallon containers (supplied from restaurants) right
                                              >>>
                                              >> into
                                              >>
                                              >>> my 55 gallon drum (through a window screen). Usually, I don't even
                                              >>> touch the oil. Once it is in my drum, I just use a gate to control
                                              >>>
                                              >> it,
                                              >>
                                              >>> again don't even touch it.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> 5 gallons of oil has the same amount of BTUs as 32.25 pounds of
                                              >>> propane. So at $3 per pound, 5 gallons of oil is worth $96.75. I
                                              >>> usually get about 6 containers at once which is the equivalent of
                                              >>> $580, which lasts me a long time! Personally I think that dumping
                                              >>>
                                              >> a
                                              >>
                                              >>> few containers into a bigger container is easily worth $580!
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Not to mention the additional benefits of oil include: it is non-
                                              >>> explosive (unlike propane), you don't have to worry about the tank
                                              >>> freezing up /petering out right when you are in the middle of a
                                              >>> project, is considered recycling by the EPA (it is carbon
                                              >>>
                                              >> neutral),
                                              >>
                                              >>> oil is non-toxic (propane is a carcinogen), and burns much cleaner
                                              >>> (less NOX - smells better too)...
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Cheers,
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                                              >>> <http://OpenOSX.com>
                                              >>> phone: 877.240.1364
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                              > this list does not accept attachments.
                                              >
                                              > Files area and list services are at:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                                              >
                                              > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                              > check out these two affiliated sites:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                                              >
                                              > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                              > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                              >
                                              > List Owner:
                                              > owly@...
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                              > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
                                              > Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1715 - Release Date: 10/8/2008 7:19 PM
                                              >
                                              >

                                              --

                                              yvt

                                              Rupert Wenig
                                              Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

                                              email: rwenig2@...

                                              http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/
                                            • David Patterson
                                              This might help to decide if it s too cold to melt. http://www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html Dave Patterson odd_kins@yahoo.com
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Oct 9, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                This might help to decide if it's too cold to melt.
                                                http://www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html

                                                Dave Patterson
                                                odd_kins@...
                                                http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                                --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Rupert <rwenig2@...> wrote:

                                                From: Rupert <rwenig2@...>
                                                Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Re: lawn mower melt
                                                To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 7:40 PM






                                                Hello Dan,
                                                I think your forgetting that some of us live in cooler climates than
                                                Texas. :-( A 1 1/2" porter burner and other burners draw enough propane
                                                from a 100 lb bottle to freeze it up easily when the temp drops to -20C
                                                (0F to you).
                                                Rupert

                                                Dan Brewer wrote:
                                                > How big of a burner are you using? With my 1 1/2 inch porter style it
                                                > doesnt freez up at any time.
                                                >
                                                > Dan in Auburn
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Lyle <creepinogie@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >> Personally, I'd rather use fuel oil for a foundry furnace. I fill a
                                                >> couple of 100 lb tanks every month or so and have them freeze up
                                                >> during the winter months if I try to cast bronze. This is even with a
                                                >> dual tank system. If anyone has a decent fuel oil burner design not
                                                >> involving pumps please let me know.
                                                >> LL
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> --- In hobbicast@yahoogrou ps.com <hobbicast%40yahoog roups.com> , Jeshua
                                                >> Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:
                                                >>
                                                >>> On Oct 8, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Rexarino wrote:
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>>> The burner can be fired from a propane barbeque tank and a
                                                >>>>
                                                >> higher
                                                >>
                                                >>>> pressure
                                                >>>> regulator. We were using a 100 pound tank (in the background) at
                                                >>>> about 8
                                                >>>> psi. It costs me about $70 a year in propane to do all the
                                                >>>>
                                                >> casting and
                                                >>
                                                >>>> playing with fire at my house, and I'm not willing to deal with
                                                >>>>
                                                >> the
                                                >>
                                                >>>> mess of
                                                >>>> an oil fired unit for that
                                                >>>>
                                                >>> Hi there,
                                                >>>
                                                >>> I just pour 5 gallon containers (supplied from restaurants) right
                                                >>>
                                                >> into
                                                >>
                                                >>> my 55 gallon drum (through a window screen). Usually, I don't even
                                                >>> touch the oil. Once it is in my drum, I just use a gate to control
                                                >>>
                                                >> it,
                                                >>
                                                >>> again don't even touch it.
                                                >>>
                                                >>> 5 gallons of oil has the same amount of BTUs as 32.25 pounds of
                                                >>> propane. So at $3 per pound, 5 gallons of oil is worth $96.75. I
                                                >>> usually get about 6 containers at once which is the equivalent of
                                                >>> $580, which lasts me a long time! Personally I think that dumping
                                                >>>
                                                >> a
                                                >>
                                                >>> few containers into a bigger container is easily worth $580!
                                                >>>
                                                >>> Not to mention the additional benefits of oil include: it is non-
                                                >>> explosive (unlike propane), you don't have to worry about the tank
                                                >>> freezing up /petering out right when you are in the middle of a
                                                >>> project, is considered recycling by the EPA (it is carbon
                                                >>>
                                                >> neutral),
                                                >>
                                                >>> oil is non-toxic (propane is a carcinogen), and burns much cleaner
                                                >>> (less NOX - smells better too)...
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>> Cheers,
                                                >>>
                                                >>> Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                                                >>> <http://OpenOSX. com>
                                                >>> phone: 877.240.1364
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                                >
                                                > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                > this list does not accept attachments.
                                                >
                                                > Files area and list services are at:
                                                > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/hobbicast
                                                >
                                                > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                > check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/sandcrabs
                                                > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Hobbicast1
                                                >
                                                > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                > http://budgetcastin gsupply.com/
                                                >
                                                > List Owner:
                                                > owly@ttc-cmc. net
                                                >
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com
                                                > Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1715 - Release Date: 10/8/2008 7:19 PM
                                                >
                                                >

                                                --

                                                yvt

                                                Rupert Wenig
                                                Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

                                                email: rwenig2@xplornet. com

                                                http://users. xplornet. com/~rwenig/ Home/


















                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Dan Brewer
                                                Rupert, I am in the Seattle area of Washington. It doesn t stay 0 too long here but even so The only time my tank has frozen is using a turkey fryer all day.
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Oct 9, 2008
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Rupert, I am in the Seattle area of Washington. It doesn't stay 0 too long
                                                  here but even so The only time my tank has frozen is using a turkey fryer
                                                  all day. In the rain.

                                                  Dan

                                                  On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Rupert <rwenig2@...> wrote:

                                                  > Hello Dan,
                                                  > I think your forgetting that some of us live in cooler climates than
                                                  > Texas. :-( A 1 1/2" porter burner and other burners draw enough propane
                                                  > from a 100 lb bottle to freeze it up easily when the temp drops to -20C
                                                  > (0F to you).
                                                  > Rupert
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Dan Brewer wrote:
                                                  > > How big of a burner are you using? With my 1 1/2 inch porter style it
                                                  > > doesnt freez up at any time.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Dan in Auburn
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Lyle <creepinogie@...<creepinogie%40yahoo.com>>
                                                  > wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >> Personally, I'd rather use fuel oil for a foundry furnace. I fill a
                                                  > >> couple of 100 lb tanks every month or so and have them freeze up
                                                  > >> during the winter months if I try to cast bronze. This is even with a
                                                  > >> dual tank system. If anyone has a decent fuel oil burner design not
                                                  > >> involving pumps please let me know.
                                                  > >> LL
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >> --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com <hobbicast%40yahoogroups.com><hobbicast%
                                                  > 40yahoogroups.com>, Jeshua
                                                  >
                                                  > >> Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>> On Oct 8, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Rexarino wrote:
                                                  > >>>
                                                  > >>>
                                                  > >>>> The burner can be fired from a propane barbeque tank and a
                                                  > >>>>
                                                  > >> higher
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>>> pressure
                                                  > >>>> regulator. We were using a 100 pound tank (in the background) at
                                                  > >>>> about 8
                                                  > >>>> psi. It costs me about $70 a year in propane to do all the
                                                  > >>>>
                                                  > >> casting and
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>>> playing with fire at my house, and I'm not willing to deal with
                                                  > >>>>
                                                  > >> the
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>>> mess of
                                                  > >>>> an oil fired unit for that
                                                  > >>>>
                                                  > >>> Hi there,
                                                  > >>>
                                                  > >>> I just pour 5 gallon containers (supplied from restaurants) right
                                                  > >>>
                                                  > >> into
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>> my 55 gallon drum (through a window screen). Usually, I don't even
                                                  > >>> touch the oil. Once it is in my drum, I just use a gate to control
                                                  > >>>
                                                  > >> it,
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>> again don't even touch it.
                                                  > >>>
                                                  > >>> 5 gallons of oil has the same amount of BTUs as 32.25 pounds of
                                                  > >>> propane. So at $3 per pound, 5 gallons of oil is worth $96.75. I
                                                  > >>> usually get about 6 containers at once which is the equivalent of
                                                  > >>> $580, which lasts me a long time! Personally I think that dumping
                                                  > >>>
                                                  > >> a
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>> few containers into a bigger container is easily worth $580!
                                                  > >>>
                                                  > >>> Not to mention the additional benefits of oil include: it is non-
                                                  > >>> explosive (unlike propane), you don't have to worry about the tank
                                                  > >>> freezing up /petering out right when you are in the middle of a
                                                  > >>> project, is considered recycling by the EPA (it is carbon
                                                  > >>>
                                                  > >> neutral),
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>> oil is non-toxic (propane is a carcinogen), and burns much cleaner
                                                  > >>> (less NOX - smells better too)...
                                                  > >>>
                                                  > >>>
                                                  > >>> Cheers,
                                                  > >>>
                                                  > >>> Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                                                  > >>> <http://OpenOSX.com>
                                                  > >>> phone: 877.240.1364
                                                  > >>>
                                                  > >>>
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                                  > >
                                                  > > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                  > > this list does not accept attachments.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Files area and list services are at:
                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                                                  > >
                                                  > > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                  > > check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                  > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                                  > >
                                                  > > List Owner:
                                                  > > owly@... <owly%40ttc-cmc.net>
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                  > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
                                                  > > Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1715 - Release Date: 10/8/2008
                                                  > 7:19 PM
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > --
                                                  >
                                                  > yvt
                                                  >
                                                  > Rupert Wenig
                                                  > Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
                                                  >
                                                  > email: rwenig2@... <rwenig2%40xplornet.com>
                                                  >
                                                  > http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/<http://users.xplornet.com/%7Erwenig/Home/>
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >


                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Jack
                                                  Well, I use a 3/4 inch downwind (upwind? - I ve forgotten) burner that will freeze some cylinders at 15 lb pressure, and not freeze others at up to 45 lbs
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Oct 10, 2008
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Well, I use a 3/4 inch 'downwind' (upwind? - I've forgotten) burner
                                                    that will freeze some cylinders at 15 lb pressure, and not freeze
                                                    others at up to 45 lbs pressure. At least a part of the problem seems
                                                    to be in the outlet valve on the cylinder itself.

                                                    If you get a cylinder that freezes, use it up and exchange it for
                                                    another in the hope of getting something better. If you get a good
                                                    one, get it refilled so you can keep it.
                                                    Jack





                                                    --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Brewer" <danqualman@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Rupert, I am in the Seattle area of Washington. It doesn't stay 0
                                                    too long
                                                    > here but even so The only time my tank has frozen is using a turkey
                                                    fryer
                                                    > all day. In the rain.
                                                    >
                                                    > Dan
                                                    >
                                                    > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Rupert <rwenig2@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > > Hello Dan,
                                                    > > I think your forgetting that some of us live in cooler climates
                                                    than
                                                    > > Texas. :-( A 1 1/2" porter burner and other burners draw enough
                                                    propane
                                                    > > from a 100 lb bottle to freeze it up easily when the temp drops
                                                    to -20C
                                                    > > (0F to you).
                                                    > > Rupert
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Dan Brewer wrote:
                                                    > > > How big of a burner are you using? With my 1 1/2 inch porter
                                                    style it
                                                    > > > doesnt freez up at any time.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Dan in Auburn
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Lyle
                                                    <creepinogie@...<creepinogie%40yahoo.com>>
                                                    > > wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >> Personally, I'd rather use fuel oil for a foundry furnace. I
                                                    fill a
                                                    > > >> couple of 100 lb tanks every month or so and have them freeze
                                                    up
                                                    > > >> during the winter months if I try to cast bronze. This is even
                                                    with a
                                                    > > >> dual tank system. If anyone has a decent fuel oil burner
                                                    design not
                                                    > > >> involving pumps please let me know.
                                                    > > >> LL
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >> --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com <hobbicast%
                                                    40yahoogroups.com><hobbicast%
                                                    > > 40yahoogroups.com>, Jeshua
                                                    > >
                                                    > > >> Lacock <jeshua@> wrote:
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >>> On Oct 8, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Rexarino wrote:
                                                    > > >>>
                                                    > > >>>
                                                    > > >>>> The burner can be fired from a propane barbeque tank and a
                                                    > > >>>>
                                                    > > >> higher
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >>>> pressure
                                                    > > >>>> regulator. We were using a 100 pound tank (in the
                                                    background) at
                                                    > > >>>> about 8
                                                    > > >>>> psi. It costs me about $70 a year in propane to do all the
                                                    > > >>>>
                                                    > > >> casting and
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >>>> playing with fire at my house, and I'm not willing to deal
                                                    with
                                                    > > >>>>
                                                    > > >> the
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >>>> mess of
                                                    > > >>>> an oil fired unit for that
                                                    > > >>>>
                                                    > > >>> Hi there,
                                                    > > >>>
                                                    > > >>> I just pour 5 gallon containers (supplied from restaurants)
                                                    right
                                                    > > >>>
                                                    > > >> into
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >>> my 55 gallon drum (through a window screen). Usually, I don't
                                                    even
                                                    > > >>> touch the oil. Once it is in my drum, I just use a gate to
                                                    control
                                                    > > >>>
                                                    > > >> it,
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >>> again don't even touch it.
                                                    > > >>>
                                                    > > >>> 5 gallons of oil has the same amount of BTUs as 32.25 pounds
                                                    of
                                                    > > >>> propane. So at $3 per pound, 5 gallons of oil is worth
                                                    $96.75. I
                                                    > > >>> usually get about 6 containers at once which is the
                                                    equivalent of
                                                    > > >>> $580, which lasts me a long time! Personally I think that
                                                    dumping
                                                    > > >>>
                                                    > > >> a
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >>> few containers into a bigger container is easily worth $580!
                                                    > > >>>
                                                    > > >>> Not to mention the additional benefits of oil include: it is
                                                    non-
                                                    > > >>> explosive (unlike propane), you don't have to worry about the
                                                    tank
                                                    > > >>> freezing up /petering out right when you are in the middle of
                                                    a
                                                    > > >>> project, is considered recycling by the EPA (it is carbon
                                                    > > >>>
                                                    > > >> neutral),
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >>> oil is non-toxic (propane is a carcinogen), and burns much
                                                    cleaner
                                                    > > >>> (less NOX - smells better too)...
                                                    > > >>>
                                                    > > >>>
                                                    > > >>> Cheers,
                                                    > > >>>
                                                    > > >>> Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                                                    > > >>> <http://OpenOSX.com>
                                                    > > >>> phone: 877.240.1364
                                                    > > >>>
                                                    > > >>>
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > ------------------------------------
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                    > > > this list does not accept attachments.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Files area and list services are at:
                                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                    > > > check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                    > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > List Owner:
                                                    > > > owly@... <owly%40ttc-cmc.net>
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                    > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
                                                    > > > Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1715 - Release Date:
                                                    10/8/2008
                                                    > > 7:19 PM
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --
                                                    > >
                                                    > > yvt
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Rupert Wenig
                                                    > > Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > email: rwenig2@... <rwenig2%40xplornet.com>
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/<http://users.xplornet.com/%
                                                    7Erwenig/Home/>
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                  • Lyle
                                                    I usually use a MIFCO B-16 furnace with a blower from a B-30 which allows me to melt cast iron. But the propane demand is pretty high. I can get dozens of
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Oct 10, 2008
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      I usually use a MIFCO B-16 furnace with a blower from a B-30 which
                                                      allows me to melt cast iron. But the propane demand is pretty high. I
                                                      can get dozens of melts pouring 6 molds for each melt from one 100 lb
                                                      bottle but in winter moths I need to stick to aluminum as brass takes
                                                      longer to heat and the propane valve will freeze up. It gets to -20
                                                      and occationally to -30 or lower here for about 4 months out of the
                                                      year. Code requires the propane bottles to be outside of the shop. If
                                                      I do cast brass or iron in the winter I have to use one of my smaller
                                                      furnaces. Going to a double regulator helps (as you can get the same
                                                      volume but at less pressure) but dosen't totally solve the problem.
                                                      Speaking of brass, it's now $5/lb in quantity where I'm getting it.
                                                      What about you guys?
                                                      LL

                                                      --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
                                                      wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > This might help to decide if it's too cold to melt.
                                                      > http://www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html
                                                      >
                                                      > Dave Patterson
                                                      > odd_kins@...
                                                      > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html
                                                      >
                                                      > --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Rupert <rwenig2@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > From: Rupert <rwenig2@...>
                                                      > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Re: lawn mower melt
                                                      > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 7:40 PM
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Hello Dan,
                                                      > I think your forgetting that some of us live in cooler climates
                                                      than
                                                      > Texas. :-( A 1 1/2" porter burner and other burners draw enough
                                                      propane
                                                      > from a 100 lb bottle to freeze it up easily when the temp drops to -
                                                      20C
                                                      > (0F to you).
                                                      > Rupert
                                                      >
                                                      > Dan Brewer wrote:
                                                      > > How big of a burner are you using? With my 1 1/2 inch porter
                                                      style it
                                                      > > doesnt freez up at any time.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Dan in Auburn
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Lyle <creepinogie@ yahoo.com>
                                                      wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >> Personally, I'd rather use fuel oil for a foundry furnace. I
                                                      fill a
                                                      > >> couple of 100 lb tanks every month or so and have them freeze up
                                                      > >> during the winter months if I try to cast bronze. This is even
                                                      with a
                                                      > >> dual tank system. If anyone has a decent fuel oil burner design
                                                      not
                                                      > >> involving pumps please let me know.
                                                      > >> LL
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >> --- In hobbicast@yahoogrou ps.com <hobbicast%40yahoog
                                                      roups.com> , Jeshua
                                                      > >> Lacock <jeshua@> wrote:
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>> On Oct 8, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Rexarino wrote:
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>>> The burner can be fired from a propane barbeque tank and a
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >> higher
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>>> pressure
                                                      > >>>> regulator. We were using a 100 pound tank (in the background)
                                                      at
                                                      > >>>> about 8
                                                      > >>>> psi. It costs me about $70 a year in propane to do all the
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >> casting and
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>>> playing with fire at my house, and I'm not willing to deal with
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >> the
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>>> mess of
                                                      > >>>> an oil fired unit for that
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >>> Hi there,
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> I just pour 5 gallon containers (supplied from restaurants)
                                                      right
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >> into
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>> my 55 gallon drum (through a window screen). Usually, I don't
                                                      even
                                                      > >>> touch the oil. Once it is in my drum, I just use a gate to
                                                      control
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >> it,
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>> again don't even touch it.
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> 5 gallons of oil has the same amount of BTUs as 32.25 pounds of
                                                      > >>> propane. So at $3 per pound, 5 gallons of oil is worth $96.75. I
                                                      > >>> usually get about 6 containers at once which is the equivalent
                                                      of
                                                      > >>> $580, which lasts me a long time! Personally I think that
                                                      dumping
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >> a
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>> few containers into a bigger container is easily worth $580!
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> Not to mention the additional benefits of oil include: it is
                                                      non-
                                                      > >>> explosive (unlike propane), you don't have to worry about the
                                                      tank
                                                      > >>> freezing up /petering out right when you are in the middle of a
                                                      > >>> project, is considered recycling by the EPA (it is carbon
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >> neutral),
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>> oil is non-toxic (propane is a carcinogen), and burns much
                                                      cleaner
                                                      > >>> (less NOX - smells better too)...
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> Cheers,
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                                                      > >>> <http://OpenOSX. com>
                                                      > >>> phone: 877.240.1364
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                                      > >
                                                      > > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
                                                      > > this list does not accept attachments.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Files area and list services are at:
                                                      > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/hobbicast
                                                      > >
                                                      > > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
                                                      > > check out these two affiliated sites:
                                                      > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/sandcrabs
                                                      > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Hobbicast1
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                                      > > http://budgetcastin gsupply.com/
                                                      > >
                                                      > > List Owner:
                                                      > > owly@ttc-cmc. net
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                      > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com
                                                      > > Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1715 - Release Date:
                                                      10/8/2008 7:19 PM
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > --
                                                      >
                                                      > yvt
                                                      >
                                                      > Rupert Wenig
                                                      > Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
                                                      >
                                                      > email: rwenig2@xplornet. com
                                                      >
                                                      > http://users. xplornet. com/~rwenig/ Home/
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                    • Chris Horne
                                                      ... That is really interesting ! The difference between a full and part empty cylinder is far greater than I imagined! Moral, for a big melt, use a full
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Oct 10, 2008
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, David Patterson <odd_kins@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > This might help to decide if it's too cold to melt.
                                                        > http://www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html
                                                        >
                                                        > Dave Patterson
                                                        > odd_kins@...
                                                        > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html

                                                        That is really interesting !

                                                        The difference between a full and part empty cylinder is far greater
                                                        than I imagined!

                                                        Moral, for a big melt, use a full cylinder, or save part used
                                                        cylinders for the summer !
                                                      • Nick Andrews
                                                        ... Sounds to me like it s time to move south! -- Nick A You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a single throat, and I had my
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Oct 10, 2008
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          >
                                                          > "It gets to -20 and occationally to -30 or lower here for about 4 months
                                                          > out of the
                                                          > year."
                                                          >

                                                          Sounds to me like it's time to move south!
                                                          --
                                                          Nick A

                                                          "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
                                                          single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975

                                                          "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
                                                          deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review
                                                          of Pennsylvania, 1759

                                                          "Be polite. Be professional. But be prepared to kill everyone you meet."
                                                          Anonymous

                                                          "I believe that if you can't find something nice to say about somebody, then
                                                          you must be talking about Hillary Clinton." Jeff Foxworthy


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