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Re: [hobbicast] Re: Liquid fuel burner

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  • Jeshua Lacock
    ... Hello, No kidding - I would not want to be near a gasoline furnace - not to mention it is very easy and cheap (even less expensive) to set up a proper oil
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 9, 2006
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      On Sep 9, 2006, at 9:30 PM, Dave wrote:

      > It's also much more flameable...I wouldn't try to use gasoline in a
      > burner. Kerosene or waste oil is much less likely to get you
      > killed!!!
      >
      > Dave
      >
      > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Zach" <Zippiot@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I need help designing a liquid fuel burner, I plan on using it in
      > a
      > > small forge for working with steel (not melting!) and melting
      > aluminum.
      > > I wanted to make an ursutz burner.
      > >
      > > I have already pieced together an aspirator (to get the fuel all
      > nice
      > > and misty) and have acertained an old hairdryer, somewhere around
      > 1600
      > > watts it says (but that seems more like a space heater to me...)
      > >
      > > I have a mig welder in the mail and it will be here in a few days,
      > I
      > > wanted to start getting parts together first.
      > >
      > > I know the basic design but for someone who will be running
      > gasoline
      > > most of the time...does anyone have dimensions for a small ursutz
      > > burner?
      > >
      > > I say gasoline b/c it is much cheaper than diesel kerosine white
      > > gas...and maybe one day I'll use waste oil if I can get the design
      > > working well
      > >

      Hello,

      No kidding - I would not want to be near a gasoline furnace - not to
      mention it is very easy and cheap (even less expensive) to set up a
      proper oil burner. If you insist on paying for your fuel, diesel/
      kerosene would be a much safer and saner choice, IMHO.

      When I don't have much to melt I use propane (because it so fast and
      easy to start), and used vegetable oil for longer/bigger runs
      (because this gets expensive with propane).

      For an excellent oil burner, I cut two 3" holes (one on the top and
      bottom) of a discarded propane tank (ironically), and a small hole on
      the side (to drip oil in). Coat the interior with a cast-able
      refractory - or the propane tank gets yellow hot in operation (see
      pictures from link below) - wasting a lot of heat and making it
      difficult to work near. To operate, lay the propane tank on it's
      side, and start dripping in oil and start a fire (I use my propane
      burner). Once your oil catches fire (harder than it sounds) all you
      have to do is force air in on one side and you get an amazing working
      flame out the exhaust end. To control it, you just have to control
      the amount of oil dripping in and how much air you give it. With a
      7lb converted propane tank I can easily melt iron.

      I have experimented with all kinds of oil burners (spraying it, etc)
      but this is my far the best that I have come up with, and it is very
      forgiving on chunks of food stuck in the oil - just adds more
      BTU's.... I have construction plans documented, but I have yet to put
      it online. But I do have some photos of my first tests with my newly
      rebuilt large Bertha2 (melts several auto engines and transmissions
      at a time - its about 4 feet by 5 feet by 4 feet deep) running one of
      the two converted propane used vegetable oil burners, with its first
      melt. Theses pictures were taken before I decided to line the propane
      tank with refractory - and running on only one of its two burners at
      about half max power (so at maximum she's only about 1/4 of the way
      on in the photos). The pictures are at:

      <http://openosx.com/hotspring/foundry/bertha2/bertha2.html>


      Cheers,

      Jeshua Lacock, Owner
      <http://OpenOSX.com>
      phone: 877.240.1364
    • Dave
      That looks very interesting... That s HOT! Is it hard to keep the supply from getting clogged up? I tried to build a mother earth oil stove and found that if
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 9, 2006
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        That looks very interesting..."That's HOT!" Is it hard to keep the
        supply from getting clogged up? I tried to build a mother earth oil
        stove and found that if you get the oil preheated, it cloggs...I
        imagine that with your design...the oil dripping in the back...it
        keeps the oil cooler.


        Dave

        --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > On Sep 9, 2006, at 9:30 PM, Dave wrote:
        >
        > > It's also much more flameable...I wouldn't try to use gasoline
        in a
        > > burner. Kerosene or waste oil is much less likely to get you
        > > killed!!!
        > >
        > > Dave
        > >
        > > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Zach" <Zippiot@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I need help designing a liquid fuel burner, I plan on using it
        in
        > > a
        > > > small forge for working with steel (not melting!) and melting
        > > aluminum.
        > > > I wanted to make an ursutz burner.
        > > >
        > > > I have already pieced together an aspirator (to get the fuel
        all
        > > nice
        > > > and misty) and have acertained an old hairdryer, somewhere
        around
        > > 1600
        > > > watts it says (but that seems more like a space heater to
        me...)
        > > >
        > > > I have a mig welder in the mail and it will be here in a few
        days,
        > > I
        > > > wanted to start getting parts together first.
        > > >
        > > > I know the basic design but for someone who will be running
        > > gasoline
        > > > most of the time...does anyone have dimensions for a small
        ursutz
        > > > burner?
        > > >
        > > > I say gasoline b/c it is much cheaper than diesel kerosine
        white
        > > > gas...and maybe one day I'll use waste oil if I can get the
        design
        > > > working well
        > > >
        >
        > Hello,
        >
        > No kidding - I would not want to be near a gasoline furnace - not
        to
        > mention it is very easy and cheap (even less expensive) to set up
        a
        > proper oil burner. If you insist on paying for your fuel, diesel/
        > kerosene would be a much safer and saner choice, IMHO.
        >
        > When I don't have much to melt I use propane (because it so fast
        and
        > easy to start), and used vegetable oil for longer/bigger runs
        > (because this gets expensive with propane).
        >
        > For an excellent oil burner, I cut two 3" holes (one on the top
        and
        > bottom) of a discarded propane tank (ironically), and a small hole
        on
        > the side (to drip oil in). Coat the interior with a cast-able
        > refractory - or the propane tank gets yellow hot in operation
        (see
        > pictures from link below) - wasting a lot of heat and making it
        > difficult to work near. To operate, lay the propane tank on it's
        > side, and start dripping in oil and start a fire (I use my
        propane
        > burner). Once your oil catches fire (harder than it sounds) all
        you
        > have to do is force air in on one side and you get an amazing
        working
        > flame out the exhaust end. To control it, you just have to
        control
        > the amount of oil dripping in and how much air you give it. With
        a
        > 7lb converted propane tank I can easily melt iron.
        >
        > I have experimented with all kinds of oil burners (spraying it,
        etc)
        > but this is my far the best that I have come up with, and it is
        very
        > forgiving on chunks of food stuck in the oil - just adds more
        > BTU's.... I have construction plans documented, but I have yet to
        put
        > it online. But I do have some photos of my first tests with my
        newly
        > rebuilt large Bertha2 (melts several auto engines and
        transmissions
        > at a time - its about 4 feet by 5 feet by 4 feet deep) running one
        of
        > the two converted propane used vegetable oil burners, with its
        first
        > melt. Theses pictures were taken before I decided to line the
        propane
        > tank with refractory - and running on only one of its two burners
        at
        > about half max power (so at maximum she's only about 1/4 of the
        way
        > on in the photos). The pictures are at:
        >
        > <http://openosx.com/hotspring/foundry/bertha2/bertha2.html>
        >
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
        > <http://OpenOSX.com>
        > phone: 877.240.1364
        >
      • Jeshua Lacock
        ... Thanks Dave! Very hot indeed! I have some even hotter (full- throttle) pictures of my dump furnace running from the same converted propane bottle oil
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 9, 2006
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          On Sep 9, 2006, at 11:08 PM, Dave wrote:

          > That looks very interesting..."That's HOT!" Is it hard to keep the
          > supply from getting clogged up? I tried to build a mother earth oil
          > stove and found that if you get the oil preheated, it cloggs...I
          > imagine that with your design...the oil dripping in the back...it
          > keeps the oil cooler.

          Thanks Dave! Very hot indeed! I have some even 'hotter' (full-
          throttle) pictures of my dump furnace running from the same converted
          propane bottle oil burner melting my first iron (in a furnace) at:

          <http://openosx.com/hotspring/foundry/melt-iron/melt-iron.html>


          I have not had a clog yet.

          The oil gets "pre-heated" in the actual burner (you should see that
          sucker go with about 3 gallons of oil in it - wooohooo!). As long as
          the oil is viscous enough to flow as fast/faster as it is consumed,
          and the supply pipes are bigger than the impurities (ie chicken bits)
          than you should not experience a clog (if you do you just need bigger
          plumbing).

          I did have a problem when its cold outside with not enough oil
          reaching the burner as I wanted to burn (oil was too viscous) - so I
          just pump my 155 F degree hotspring through a copper heat exchanger
          (the 7th picture on that page), and have not had that problem since
          then. Most people don't have free hot water coming out of the ground,
          but a small fire/hotplate under your oil supply would be adequate.

          In fact, if you did ever experience a clog, you can even pour the oil
          directly into the burner with a funnel...


          Best,

          Jeshua Lacock, Owner
          <http://OpenOSX.com>
          phone: 877.240.1364
        • Dave
          What temp refractory do you use in the furnace and do you just melt the iron in the furnace and pour it out? Dave ... the ... oil ... converted ... iron.html
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 9, 2006
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            What temp refractory do you use in the furnace and do you just melt
            the iron in the furnace and pour it out?

            Dave

            -- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > On Sep 9, 2006, at 11:08 PM, Dave wrote:
            >
            > > That looks very interesting..."That's HOT!" Is it hard to keep
            the
            > > supply from getting clogged up? I tried to build a mother earth
            oil
            > > stove and found that if you get the oil preheated, it cloggs...I
            > > imagine that with your design...the oil dripping in the back...it
            > > keeps the oil cooler.
            >
            > Thanks Dave! Very hot indeed! I have some even 'hotter' (full-
            > throttle) pictures of my dump furnace running from the same
            converted
            > propane bottle oil burner melting my first iron (in a furnace) at:
            >
            > <http://openosx.com/hotspring/foundry/melt-iron/melt-
            iron.html>
            >
            >
            > I have not had a clog yet.
            >
            > The oil gets "pre-heated" in the actual burner (you should see
            that
            > sucker go with about 3 gallons of oil in it - wooohooo!). As long
            as
            > the oil is viscous enough to flow as fast/faster as it is
            consumed,
            > and the supply pipes are bigger than the impurities (ie chicken
            bits)
            > than you should not experience a clog (if you do you just need
            bigger
            > plumbing).
            >
            > I did have a problem when its cold outside with not enough oil
            > reaching the burner as I wanted to burn (oil was too viscous) - so
            I
            > just pump my 155 F degree hotspring through a copper heat
            exchanger
            > (the 7th picture on that page), and have not had that problem
            since
            > then. Most people don't have free hot water coming out of the
            ground,
            > but a small fire/hotplate under your oil supply would be adequate.
            >
            > In fact, if you did ever experience a clog, you can even pour the
            oil
            > directly into the burner with a funnel...
            >
            >
            > Best,
            >
            > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
            > <http://OpenOSX.com>
            > phone: 877.240.1364
            >
          • Jeshua Lacock
            ... The dump-furnace has about 1/2 inch of casted 3400F Sparcast® refractory backed by 2 of 2800F kaowool - so the whole furnace is about 150 pounds. The
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 9, 2006
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              On Sep 9, 2006, at 11:59 PM, Dave wrote:

              > What temp refractory do you use in the furnace and do you just melt
              > the iron in the furnace and pour it out?

              The dump-furnace has about 1/2" inch of casted 3400F Sparcast®
              refractory backed by 2" of 2800F kaowool - so the whole furnace is
              about 150 pounds. The entire furnace is lined with ITC-100.

              Yes, the whole furnace swivels - so you just pour directly from it
              (no scary crucible to handle/fall/fail). It was constructed out of an
              old converted cement mixer frame, a 55 gallon drum and a 7lb propane
              bottle. (all from the dump).


              Cheers,

              Jeshua Lacock, Owner
              <http://OpenOSX.com>
              phone: 877.240.1364
            • Zach
              I actually just bought 2 gallons of kerosine and 1 of white gas, hardware store is moving so everything is super cheap! I had a friend who worked in the deli
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 10, 2006
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                I actually just bought 2 gallons of kerosine and 1 of white gas,
                hardware store is moving so everything is super cheap! I had a
                friend who worked in the deli of a grocery store, they emptied the
                oil once a week but he has since quit and went to college...that
                would have been nice though

                Very hot propane tank, looks nice!

                I said gasoline as it is readily available, but diesel will aslo
                work, just wanted a fuel that I can go around the corner and pay
                less than 8 bux a gallon for!

                So the burner is really that simple? Drip oil into the stream of
                air and pre-heat it in a small metal box lined with refractory?






                --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Jeshua Lacock <jeshua@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > On Sep 9, 2006, at 11:59 PM, Dave wrote:
                >
                > > What temp refractory do you use in the furnace and do you just
                melt
                > > the iron in the furnace and pour it out?
                >
                > The dump-furnace has about 1/2" inch of casted 3400F Sparcast®
                > refractory backed by 2" of 2800F kaowool - so the whole furnace
                is
                > about 150 pounds. The entire furnace is lined with ITC-100.
                >
                > Yes, the whole furnace swivels - so you just pour directly from
                it
                > (no scary crucible to handle/fall/fail). It was constructed out of
                an
                > old converted cement mixer frame, a 55 gallon drum and a 7lb
                propane
                > bottle. (all from the dump).
                >
                >
                > Cheers,
                >
                > Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                > <http://OpenOSX.com>
                > phone: 877.240.1364
                >
              • Jeshua Lacock
                ... Thanks Zach. ... Just please keep in mind that Gasoline is explosive while diesel is not... Gas will light from the smallest spark, and can even follow the
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 10, 2006
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                  On Sep 10, 2006, at 8:56 AM, Zach wrote:

                  > Very hot propane tank, looks nice!

                  Thanks Zach.

                  > I said gasoline as it is readily available, but diesel will aslo
                  > work, just wanted a fuel that I can go around the corner and pay
                  > less than 8 bux a gallon for!

                  Just please keep in mind that Gasoline is explosive while diesel is
                  not...

                  Gas will light from the smallest spark, and can even follow the trail
                  of gas... This is not the case with diesel.

                  > So the burner is really that simple? Drip oil into the stream of
                  > air and pre-heat it in a small metal box lined with refractory?

                  Yes - very, very simple. Although it is not the dripping in a stream
                  of air that makes this burner design work - it is the oil fire in the
                  bottom of the propane tank. Imagine starting an oil fire (this is
                  always a bad thing in a restaurant) and then trying to extinguish it
                  by blowing forced air - it won't go out - it just gets really FIRECE.


                  Cheers,

                  Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                  <http://OpenOSX.com>
                  phone: 877.240.1364
                • Rick Rowlands
                  I am curious how you made your furnace into a tilting arrangement. Where does the burner interface with the melting vessel? It would have to be somewhere
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 11, 2006
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                    I am curious how you made your furnace into a tilting arrangement. Where does the burner interface with the melting vessel? It would have to be somewhere that wouldn't fill with molten metal.

                    What size of propane cylinder did you use? I've not seen any of the size you pictured. Around here a 25 pounder is the smallest I iknow of.

                    Rick

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Jeshua Lacock
                    To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:26 PM
                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Re: Liquid fuel burner



                    On Sep 10, 2006, at 8:56 AM, Zach wrote:

                    > Very hot propane tank, looks nice!

                    Thanks Zach.

                    > I said gasoline as it is readily available, but diesel will aslo
                    > work, just wanted a fuel that I can go around the corner and pay
                    > less than 8 bux a gallon for!

                    Just please keep in mind that Gasoline is explosive while diesel is
                    not...

                    Gas will light from the smallest spark, and can even follow the trail
                    of gas... This is not the case with diesel.

                    > So the burner is really that simple? Drip oil into the stream of
                    > air and pre-heat it in a small metal box lined with refractory?

                    Yes - very, very simple. Although it is not the dripping in a stream
                    of air that makes this burner design work - it is the oil fire in the
                    bottom of the propane tank. Imagine starting an oil fire (this is
                    always a bad thing in a restaurant) and then trying to extinguish it
                    by blowing forced air - it won't go out - it just gets really FIRECE.

                    Cheers,

                    Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                    <http://OpenOSX.com>
                    phone: 877.240.1364





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jeshua Lacock
                    ... Hi Rick, There is a #100 crucible in the tilting furnace. You can see in the pictures - the exhaust from the propane oil burner simply goes into a hole
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 11, 2006
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                      On Sep 11, 2006, at 5:07 AM, Rick Rowlands wrote:

                      > I am curious how you made your furnace into a tilting arrangement.
                      > Where does the burner interface with the melting vessel? It would
                      > have to be somewhere that wouldn't fill with molten metal.

                      Hi Rick,

                      There is a #100 crucible in the tilting furnace. You can see in the
                      pictures - the exhaust from the "propane" oil burner simply goes into
                      a hole on the side of the furnace which then heats the crucible.

                      I can put some more pictures up if you like...

                      > What size of propane cylinder did you use? I've not seen any of the
                      > size you pictured. Around here a 25 pounder is the smallest I iknow
                      > of.

                      I have been using a 7lb propane bottle. I bet that a 25 pound bottle
                      would be enough power to melt an entire automobile (at once - grin)!
                      But so long as you can control the amount of oil in the bottle -
                      thats what determines how much heat it puts out. For example, if I
                      have about a gallon of oil in the propane bottle, it would put out
                      about 1/3 of the flame if it had 3 gallons in the bottle.

                      So the power is scalable up to the maximum amount of oil the burner
                      can hold...

                      But even so, 25lb bottle is a big one! There are no shortage of a
                      variety of different size propane bottles from my local county dump
                      (they 'expire' so people just junk them). And, each bottle I have
                      salvaged, you get an added bonus of some scrap brass (usually the
                      valve is brass)...

                      Oh - and my dremel tool cuts the holes like butter (put my airr
                      compressor to shame). Make sure you fill that bottle with water
                      before you start cutting into it....


                      Cheers,

                      Jeshua Lacock, Owner
                      <http://OpenOSX.com>
                      phone: 877.240.1364
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