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Re: [hobbicast] CLAY MOLD ??

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  • Rupert Wenig
    Hi Guys, Found a couple of pictures my wife took at the Regina expo show last year. The plaque casting photo shows how I gated the plaque and tucked in a
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 9, 2006
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      Hi Guys,
      Found a couple of pictures my wife took at the Regina expo show last
      year. The plaque casting photo shows how I gated the plaque and tucked
      in a couple of key tags along side the sprue. I also added a few more
      pictures of other castings that had thin sections. Hope this helps.
      It doesn't show well in the picture but I like to taper the gates
      sharply. The gate is is about 1/16" thick where it attaches the cavity
      in both cases tapering sharply towards the sprue.
      Had to improvise at the Regina show as I forgot to bring a sprue cutter
      with. Note the item with a "3" on it. I cut a sprue cutter from an empty
      pop can. It actually worked quite well.
      The sand shown in the plaque picture is well used petrobond.
      Rupert

      Daniel C Postellon wrote:
      > I'm interested too. I would like to try some silver dollar sized or largerm
      > medals.
      >
      >> Hello Peter,
      >>
      >> Peter Karaguleski wrote:
      >>> I have fireclay, bentonite, silca sand (dont know which number) and silica
      >>> #200 which is realy fine stuff.
      >> Yes. Almost like flour. I only use a thin layer against the pattern.
      >>> The medalions are only one sided, so its not an enclosed mold, just an
      >>> imprint in the sand mold.
      >> I never had much luck with open molds. Are you pouring directly into
      >> the cavity or have you cut a pouring basin using a runner/gate to allow
      >> the metal to flow into the pattern cavity?
      >>
      >>> I will try pouring more slowly and reduce the water content.
      >>> I would love to see a sprue setup.. would love to see your results with you
      >>> belt buckles. No doubt much more sophisticated than my results.
      >> Only the first one is sophisticated. the next get easier. :-) I'll dig
      >> around and see if I can find a similar picture.
      >>
      >> Rupert
      >>> Best Regards
      >>> Peter Karaguleski
      >>>
      >>> ----- Original Message -----
      >>> From: "Rupert Wenig" <rwenig@...>
      >>> To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
      >>> Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 2:28 AM
      >>> Subject: Re: [hobbicast] CLAY MOLD ??
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>> Hello Peter,
      >>>> I uploaded a file containing the sand formulas to the files section of
      >>>> Hobbicast. The direct link is
      >>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/files/Rupert%3B%27s/>.
      >>>>
      >>>> My opinion is you have way too much clay in the facing sand mix. You
      >>>> only need to use a thin layer of the facing sand. The rest of the sand
      >>>> in the flask should be coarse for good venting. Use a wire to vent
      >>>> directly to the pattern where ever there isn't any detail (back side).
      >>>> Two other causes of bubbling that come to mind are your sand is too wet
      >>>> or your melt is too hot. One more: Is the aluminum your melting a good
      >>>> casting alloy such as an auto piston? Extruded aluminum and pure
      >>>> aluminum aren't good casting alloys without adding additives.
      >>>> I cast items like western style belt buckles, small plaques and key
      >>>> chain dodads at demonstrations using the mix in the files second with
      >>>> detail results that need very little polishing (no sanding) on the face
      >>>> side. The back side as some vent wires to clean off. I sprue to the edge
      >>>> in two or three places. These samples are only 1/16" thick in places. I
      >>>> only cast aluminum at the demonstrations. I don't have any samples to
      >>>> take a picture of as they are snatched up at the shows as fast as I can
      >>>> produce them.
      >>>>
      >>>> How small are these pieces your trying to cast? Can you send a sample
      >>>> picture to rwenig@...?
      >>>>
      >>>> Rupert
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> Peter Karaguleski wrote:
      >>>>> rupert
      >>>>> i increased the bentonite mix with sillica 200 to maybe 20% and the
      >>>>> molten metal just bubbles ontop
      >>>>> I have done it with brass and aluminium .... the aluminimum i did on
      >>>>> greensand bentonite mix and there was no bubbling of the molten metal.
      >>>>> I
      >>>>> think the silica 200 mix is less porous so it didnt vent nicley and the
      >>>>> air remained trapped.
      >>>>> Im only trying to cast very small peices, and i couldnt get any detail
      >>>>> out
      >>>>> in the greensand mix as the sand would just clogg up the models
      >>>>> details
      >>>>> I used some silica 200 to act as a speperating agent but no luck I
      >>>>> went
      >>>>> wothe silca nd bentonite , got a better mold there but it ended up with
      >>>>> air bubbles.
      >>>>> I think clay would be even worse wrt air bubbles.
      >>>>> Best Regards
      >>>>> Peter Karaguleski
      >>>> --
      >>>> yvt
      >>>>
      >>>> Rupert Wenig
      >>>> Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
      >>>>
      >>>> http://www3.telus.net/public/rwenig/
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
      >>>> this list does not accept attachments.
      >>>>
      >>>> Files area and list services are at:
      >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
      >>>>
      >>>> For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
      >>>> check out these two affiliated sites:
      >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
      >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
      >>>>
      >>>> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
      >>>> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
      >>>>
      >>>> List Owner:
      >>>> owly@...
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> --
      >>>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
      >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
      >>>> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23/12/2005
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >> --
      >> --
      >> yvt
      >>
      >> Rupert Wenig
      >> Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
      >>
      >> http://www3.telus.net/public/rwenig/
      >>
      >>
      >> For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
      >> this list does not accept attachments.
      >>
      >> Files area and list services are at:
      >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
      >>
      >> For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
      >> check out these two affiliated sites:
      >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
      >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
      >>
      >> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
      >> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
      >>
      >> List Owner:
      >> owly@...
      >>
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
      > this list does not accept attachments.
      >
      > Files area and list services are at:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
      >
      > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
      > check out these two affiliated sites:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
      >
      > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
      > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
      >
      > List Owner:
      > owly@...
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

      --
      --
      yvt

      Rupert Wenig
      Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

      http://www3.telus.net/public/rwenig/
    • Daniel C Postellon
      Pretty cool! I have to admit I thought key tags was a technical term, until I saw the photo. They are something to put on your key chain! (right?)
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 9, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Pretty cool! I have to admit I thought "key tags" was a technical term,
        until I saw the photo. They are something to put on your key chain!
        (right?)

        > Hi Guys,
        > Found a couple of pictures my wife took at the Regina expo show last
        > year. The plaque casting photo shows how I gated the plaque and tucked
        > in a couple of key tags along side the sprue. I also added a few more
        > pictures of other castings that had thin sections. Hope this helps.
        > It doesn't show well in the picture but I like to taper the gates
        > sharply. The gate is is about 1/16" thick where it attaches the cavity
        > in both cases tapering sharply towards the sprue.
        > Had to improvise at the Regina show as I forgot to bring a sprue cutter
        > with. Note the item with a "3" on it. I cut a sprue cutter from an empty
        > pop can. It actually worked quite well.
        > The sand shown in the plaque picture is well used petrobond.
        > Rupert
        >
        > Daniel C Postellon wrote:
        >> I'm interested too. I would like to try some silver dollar sized or largerm
        >> medals.
        >>
        >>> Hello Peter,
        >>>
        >>> Peter Karaguleski wrote:
        >>>> I have fireclay, bentonite, silca sand (dont know which number) and silica
        >>>> #200 which is realy fine stuff.
        >>> Yes. Almost like flour. I only use a thin layer against the pattern.
        >>>> The medalions are only one sided, so its not an enclosed mold, just an
        >>>> imprint in the sand mold.
        >>> I never had much luck with open molds. Are you pouring directly into
        >>> the cavity or have you cut a pouring basin using a runner/gate to allow
        >>> the metal to flow into the pattern cavity?
        >>>
        >>>> I will try pouring more slowly and reduce the water content.
        >>>> I would love to see a sprue setup.. would love to see your results with you
        >>>> belt buckles. No doubt much more sophisticated than my results.
        >>> Only the first one is sophisticated. the next get easier. :-) I'll dig
        >>> around and see if I can find a similar picture.
        >>>
        >>> Rupert
        >>>> Best Regards
        >>>> Peter Karaguleski
        >>>>
        >>>> ----- Original Message -----
        >>>> From: "Rupert Wenig" <rwenig@...>
        >>>> To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
        >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 2:28 AM
        >>>> Subject: Re: [hobbicast] CLAY MOLD ??
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>> Hello Peter,
        >>>>> I uploaded a file containing the sand formulas to the files section of
        >>>>> Hobbicast. The direct link is
        >>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/files/Rupert%3B%27s/>.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> My opinion is you have way too much clay in the facing sand mix. You
        >>>>> only need to use a thin layer of the facing sand. The rest of the sand
        >>>>> in the flask should be coarse for good venting. Use a wire to vent
        >>>>> directly to the pattern where ever there isn't any detail (back side).
        >>>>> Two other causes of bubbling that come to mind are your sand is too wet
        >>>>> or your melt is too hot. One more: Is the aluminum your melting a good
        >>>>> casting alloy such as an auto piston? Extruded aluminum and pure
        >>>>> aluminum aren't good casting alloys without adding additives.
        >>>>> I cast items like western style belt buckles, small plaques and key
        >>>>> chain dodads at demonstrations using the mix in the files second with
        >>>>> detail results that need very little polishing (no sanding) on the face
        >>>>> side. The back side as some vent wires to clean off. I sprue to the edge
        >>>>> in two or three places. These samples are only 1/16" thick in places. I
        >>>>> only cast aluminum at the demonstrations. I don't have any samples to
        >>>>> take a picture of as they are snatched up at the shows as fast as I can
        >>>>> produce them.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> How small are these pieces your trying to cast? Can you send a sample
        >>>>> picture to rwenig@...?
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Rupert
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Peter Karaguleski wrote:
        >>>>>> rupert
        >>>>>> i increased the bentonite mix with sillica 200 to maybe 20% and the
        >>>>>> molten metal just bubbles ontop
        >>>>>> I have done it with brass and aluminium .... the aluminimum i did on
        >>>>>> greensand bentonite mix and there was no bubbling of the molten metal.
        >>>>>> I
        >>>>>> think the silica 200 mix is less porous so it didnt vent nicley and the
        >>>>>> air remained trapped.
        >>>>>> Im only trying to cast very small peices, and i couldnt get any detail
        >>>>>> out
        >>>>>> in the greensand mix as the sand would just clogg up the models
        >>>>>> details
        >>>>>> I used some silica 200 to act as a speperating agent but no luck I
        >>>>>> went
        >>>>>> wothe silca nd bentonite , got a better mold there but it ended up with
        >>>>>> air bubbles.
        >>>>>> I think clay would be even worse wrt air bubbles.
        >>>>>> Best Regards
        >>>>>> Peter Karaguleski
        >>>>> --
        >>>>> yvt
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Rupert Wenig
        >>>>> Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> http://www3.telus.net/public/rwenig/
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
        >>>>> this list does not accept attachments.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Files area and list services are at:
        >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
        >>>>>
        >>>>> For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
        >>>>> check out these two affiliated sites:
        >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
        >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
        >>>>> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
        >>>>>
        >>>>> List Owner:
        >>>>> owly@...
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> --
        >>>>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
        >>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        >>>>> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23/12/2005
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>> --
        >>> --
        >>> yvt
        >>>
        >>> Rupert Wenig
        >>> Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
        >>>
        >>> http://www3.telus.net/public/rwenig/
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
        >>> this list does not accept attachments.
        >>>
        >>> Files area and list services are at:
        >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
        >>>
        >>> For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
        >>> check out these two affiliated sites:
        >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
        >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
        >>>
        >>> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
        >>> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
        >>>
        >>> List Owner:
        >>> owly@...
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
        >> this list does not accept attachments.
        >>
        >> Files area and list services are at:
        >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
        >>
        >> For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
        >> check out these two affiliated sites:
        >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
        >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
        >>
        >> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
        >> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
        >>
        >> List Owner:
        >> owly@...
        >>
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        > --
        > --
        > yvt
        >
        > Rupert Wenig
        > Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
        >
        > http://www3.telus.net/public/rwenig/
        >
        >
        > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
        > this list does not accept attachments.
        >
        > Files area and list services are at:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
        >
        > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
        > check out these two affiliated sites:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
        >
        > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
        > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
        >
        > List Owner:
        > owly@...
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Rupert Wenig
        Hello Daniel, That s right. I try to pick an emboss subject that pertains to the show, city or province. You can t see it in the picture but I believe those
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 9, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Daniel,
          That's right. I try to pick an emboss subject that pertains to the
          show, city or province. You can't see it in the picture but I believe
          those two had a steam loco and a snow plow.

          I added a picture of the finished plaque to my folder.
          Bye the way, the significance of the "100" is Saskatchewan was
          celebrating 100 years as a province.

          Rupert

          Daniel C Postellon wrote:
          > Pretty cool! I have to admit I thought "key tags" was a technical term,
          > until I saw the photo. They are something to put on your key chain!
          > (right?)
          >
          --
          yvt

          Rupert Wenig
          Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

          http://www3.telus.net/public/rwenig/
        • Peter Karaguleski
          rupert yes i was using an opne mold. I think the splash effect on pouring creates alot of problems. I wll be experimenting with closed molds with a
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 11, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            rupert
            yes i was using an opne mold.
            I think the splash effect on pouring creates alot of problems.
            I wll be experimenting with closed molds with a pouring sprue.
            Actually i found a great form to use for a cast mold.. CUTTLEFISH
            Cut the cuttlefish in half or use 2 seperate ones so you have 2 faces for
            the molds. They are easy to engrave.
            I pored aluminium into it, all was going well untill the mold fell appart
            as it was inadequately supported.
            I think it was working nicley as the cuttle fish is totally pourous.
            I will do one tommorrow or something and let you know how it goes.
            Best Regards
            Peter Karaguleski
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Rupert Wenig" <rwenig@...>
            To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 11:43 PM
            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] CLAY MOLD ??


            > Hello Peter,
            >
            > Peter Karaguleski wrote:
            >> I have fireclay, bentonite, silca sand (dont know which number) and
            >> silica
            >> #200 which is realy fine stuff.
            >
            > Yes. Almost like flour. I only use a thin layer against the pattern.
            >> The medalions are only one sided, so its not an enclosed mold, just an
            >> imprint in the sand mold.
            >
            > I never had much luck with open molds. Are you pouring directly into
            > the cavity or have you cut a pouring basin using a runner/gate to allow
            > the metal to flow into the pattern cavity?
            >
            >> I will try pouring more slowly and reduce the water content.
            >> I would love to see a sprue setup.. would love to see your results with
            >> you
            >> belt buckles. No doubt much more sophisticated than my results.
            >
            > Only the first one is sophisticated. the next get easier. :-) I'll dig
            > around and see if I can find a similar picture.
            >
            > Rupert
            >>
            >> Best Regards
            >> Peter Karaguleski
            >>
            >> ----- Original Message -----
            >> From: "Rupert Wenig" <rwenig@...>
            >> To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
            >> Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 2:28 AM
            >> Subject: Re: [hobbicast] CLAY MOLD ??
            >>
            >>
            >>> Hello Peter,
            >>> I uploaded a file containing the sand formulas to the files section of
            >>> Hobbicast. The direct link is
            >>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast/files/Rupert%3B%27s/>.
            >>>
            >>> My opinion is you have way too much clay in the facing sand mix. You
            >>> only need to use a thin layer of the facing sand. The rest of the sand
            >>> in the flask should be coarse for good venting. Use a wire to vent
            >>> directly to the pattern where ever there isn't any detail (back side).
            >>> Two other causes of bubbling that come to mind are your sand is too wet
            >>> or your melt is too hot. One more: Is the aluminum your melting a good
            >>> casting alloy such as an auto piston? Extruded aluminum and pure
            >>> aluminum aren't good casting alloys without adding additives.
            >>> I cast items like western style belt buckles, small plaques and key
            >>> chain dodads at demonstrations using the mix in the files second with
            >>> detail results that need very little polishing (no sanding) on the face
            >>> side. The back side as some vent wires to clean off. I sprue to the edge
            >>> in two or three places. These samples are only 1/16" thick in places. I
            >>> only cast aluminum at the demonstrations. I don't have any samples to
            >>> take a picture of as they are snatched up at the shows as fast as I can
            >>> produce them.
            >>>
            >>> How small are these pieces your trying to cast? Can you send a sample
            >>> picture to rwenig@...?
            >>>
            >>> Rupert
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> Peter Karaguleski wrote:
            >>>> rupert
            >>>> i increased the bentonite mix with sillica 200 to maybe 20% and the
            >>>> molten metal just bubbles ontop
            >>>> I have done it with brass and aluminium .... the aluminimum i did on
            >>>> greensand bentonite mix and there was no bubbling of the molten
            >>>> metal.
            >>>> I
            >>>> think the silica 200 mix is less porous so it didnt vent nicley and
            >>>> the
            >>>> air remained trapped.
            >>>> Im only trying to cast very small peices, and i couldnt get any detail
            >>>> out
            >>>> in the greensand mix as the sand would just clogg up the models
            >>>> details
            >>>> I used some silica 200 to act as a speperating agent but no luck I
            >>>> went
            >>>> wothe silca nd bentonite , got a better mold there but it ended up
            >>>> with
            >>>> air bubbles.
            >>>> I think clay would be even worse wrt air bubbles.
            >>>> Best Regards
            >>>> Peter Karaguleski
            >>> --
            >>> yvt
            >>>
            >>> Rupert Wenig
            >>> Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
            >>>
            >>> http://www3.telus.net/public/rwenig/
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
            >>> this list does not accept attachments.
            >>>
            >>> Files area and list services are at:
            >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
            >>>
            >>> For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
            >>> check out these two affiliated sites:
            >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
            >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
            >>>
            >>> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
            >>> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
            >>>
            >>> List Owner:
            >>> owly@...
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> --
            >>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
            >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            >>> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date:
            >>> 23/12/2005
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            > --
            > --
            > yvt
            >
            > Rupert Wenig
            > Camrose, Alberta, Canada.
            >
            > http://www3.telus.net/public/rwenig/
            >
            >
            > For discussion of Metal Casting and related issues
            > this list does not accept attachments.
            >
            > Files area and list services are at:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
            >
            > For additional files and photos and off topic discussions
            > check out these two affiliated sites:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast1
            >
            > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
            > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
            >
            > List Owner:
            > owly@...
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23/12/2005
            >
            >



            --
            Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
            Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23/12/2005
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