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"K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"...

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  • Edyn
    I have just mixed up my first batch of kb this weekend using Toms/Rays recipe. I mixed it according to the tech sheet that came with the Tixogel-Vp , It
    Message 1 of 18 , Aug 22, 2004
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      I have just mixed up my first batch of kb this weekend using
      Toms/Rays recipe. I mixed it according to the tech sheet that came
      with the "Tixogel-Vp", It suggested to mix the clay with the solvent
      (Oil) under high speed shear,(To cause partial delamination of the
      platelets), then add the polar activater and reapply shear for full
      Activation and Gelling. I made a mixer disc with sharp blades and
      used a drill at high speed.

      After mixing for a while the clay and oil turned into a really
      stiff mud!, I added the Meth/H2o mix and it didnt really seem to
      make too much differance at all.
      I didnt think it looked right, but thought id try and mix it into
      the sand anyway.

      I spent a day Mixing it, Ramming it, Stompin on it, Running through
      sieves to try and get proper sand coverage but Its like the clay and
      oil are totally seperate from the sand(I aint got a muller!). Ive
      added in more alcohol but that made no differance either. It binds
      slightly but has really "poor" Green strength and when doing a break
      test it sorta just crumbles apart.

      Im not certain what ive done Wrong? My measurments are correct,
      The "Tixogel-vp" is rated the same as Bentone 34.

      The only thing I can think of is the mixing procedure, I will try
      and mix up a new batch with what sand etc I have left ova.
      This time ill mix the sand/org-clay first, and in smaller 10lb
      batches instead of 100lb batches like Ray recommends, maybe this
      will get more clay/sand coverage before adding the oil/meth..

      The recipe Im using is/ 100 lb silica
      6 lb Tixogel-Vp ,Organo-clay
      3 lb Penzoil full/syn 2 stroke oil
      1 lb Polar @ 95/5 Methonal/water

      .........Any Comments, Pointers , Help would be appreciated

      Thanks in advance........Edyn..NZ
    • Keith Bowers
      ... Check back in the archives for discussions on the importance of proper mulling; it appears you are only stiring. To mix this stuff you need to
      Message 2 of 18 , Aug 22, 2004
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        On Sunday 22 August 2004 08:03 pm, Edyn wrote:
        > I have just mixed up my first batch of kb this weekend using
        > Toms/Rays recipe. I mixed it according to the tech sheet that came
        > with the "Tixogel-Vp", It suggested to mix the clay with the solvent
        > (Oil) under high speed shear,(To cause partial delamination of the
        > platelets), then add the polar activater and reapply shear for full
        > Activation and Gelling. I made a mixer disc with sharp blades and
        > used a drill at high speed.
        >
        <snip>
        Check back in the archives for discussions on the importance of proper
        mulling; it appears you are only stiring. To mix this stuff you need to
        squeeze it. Someone came up with the idea of putting the mixture between a
        couple of sheets of heavy plastic on a concrete driveway and driving over it
        many times with their vehicle.
        --
        Keith Bowers - Thomasville, NC
      • Leon Risenhoover
        I mixed ( my mixer did have some of the blades angled so to put pressure on the contents) the pie and sand the then added the oil and I think that is the way
        Message 3 of 18 , Aug 22, 2004
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          I "mixed" ( my mixer did have some of the blades angled so to put pressure
          on the contents) the pie and sand the then added the oil and I think that is
          the way you do the k-bond also I only had a mixer at the time and had no
          problems until the third usage and it became sticky to much oil I think now
          I have a muller with 45lb wheels in it and mull it a bit dry and add a
          little "heat" to moisten it up a little and then ram it right away when I
          lift the flask the pattern runner and sprue base stays on the index board
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Edyn" <edynm@...>
          To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:03 PM
          Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"...


          > I have just mixed up my first batch of kb this weekend using
          > Toms/Rays recipe. I mixed it according to the tech sheet that came
          > with the "Tixogel-Vp", It suggested to mix the clay with the solvent
          > (Oil) under high speed shear,(To cause partial delamination of the
          > platelets), then add the polar activater and reapply shear for full
          > Activation and Gelling. I made a mixer disc with sharp blades and
          > used a drill at high speed.
          >
          > After mixing for a while the clay and oil turned into a really
          > stiff mud!, I added the Meth/H2o mix and it didnt really seem to
          > make too much differance at all.
          > I didnt think it looked right, but thought id try and mix it into
          > the sand anyway.
          >
          > I spent a day Mixing it, Ramming it, Stompin on it, Running through
          > sieves to try and get proper sand coverage but Its like the clay and
          > oil are totally seperate from the sand(I aint got a muller!). Ive
          > added in more alcohol but that made no differance either. It binds
          > slightly but has really "poor" Green strength and when doing a break
          > test it sorta just crumbles apart.
          >
          > Im not certain what ive done Wrong? My measurments are correct,
          > The "Tixogel-vp" is rated the same as Bentone 34.
          >
          > The only thing I can think of is the mixing procedure, I will try
          > and mix up a new batch with what sand etc I have left ova.
          > This time ill mix the sand/org-clay first, and in smaller 10lb
          > batches instead of 100lb batches like Ray recommends, maybe this
          > will get more clay/sand coverage before adding the oil/meth..
          >
          > The recipe Im using is/ 100 lb silica
          > 6 lb Tixogel-Vp ,Organo-clay
          > 3 lb Penzoil full/syn 2 stroke oil
          > 1 lb Polar @ 95/5 Methonal/water
          >
          > .........Any Comments, Pointers , Help would be appreciated
          >
          > Thanks in advance........Edyn..NZ
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > This list is for discussion of metal casting
          > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
          photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
          sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
          > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
          > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
          >
          > Files area and list services are at:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
          otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
          > owly@...
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Edyn
          Thanks for the comments, The problem was in the mixing, I remixed a new batch differantly and it turned out fine. I am amazed at the Greenstrength of PB once
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 23, 2004
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            Thanks for the comments,

            The problem was in the mixing, I remixed a new batch differantly
            and it turned out fine.

            I am amazed at the Greenstrength of PB once the alcohol is added,
            Its rams and packs nice, and gives nice detail.

            Happy Caster

            Regards ...Edyn..NZ

            ---------------------------------------------------------------------



            --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Leon Risenhoover <lrisen@d...>
            wrote:
            > I "mixed" ( my mixer did have some of the blades angled so to put
            pressure
            > on the contents) the pie and sand the then added the oil and I
            think that is
            > the way you do the k-bond also I only had a mixer at the time and
            had no
            > problems until the third usage and it became sticky to much oil I
            think now
            > I have a muller with 45lb wheels in it and mull it a bit dry and
            add a
            > little "heat" to moisten it up a little and then ram it right away
            when I
            > lift the flask the pattern runner and sprue base stays on the
            index board
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Edyn" <edynm@y...>
            > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:03 PM
            > Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"...
            >
            >
            > > I have just mixed up my first batch of kb this weekend using
            > > Toms/Rays recipe. I mixed it according to the tech sheet that
            came
            > > with the "Tixogel-Vp", It suggested to mix the clay with the
            solvent
            > > (Oil) under high speed shear,(To cause partial delamination of
            the
            > > platelets), then add the polar activater and reapply shear for
            full
            > > Activation and Gelling. I made a mixer disc with sharp blades and
            > > used a drill at high speed.
            > >
            > > After mixing for a while the clay and oil turned into a really
            > > stiff mud!, I added the Meth/H2o mix and it didnt really seem to
            > > make too much differance at all.
            > > I didnt think it looked right, but thought id try and mix it
            into
            > > the sand anyway.
            > >
            > > I spent a day Mixing it, Ramming it, Stompin on it, Running
            through
            > > sieves to try and get proper sand coverage but Its like the clay
            and
            > > oil are totally seperate from the sand(I aint got a muller!). Ive
            > > added in more alcohol but that made no differance either. It
            binds
            > > slightly but has really "poor" Green strength and when doing a
            break
            > > test it sorta just crumbles apart.
            > >
            > > Im not certain what ive done Wrong? My measurments are correct,
            > > The "Tixogel-vp" is rated the same as Bentone 34.
            > >
            > > The only thing I can think of is the mixing procedure, I will
            try
            > > and mix up a new batch with what sand etc I have left ova.
            > > This time ill mix the sand/org-clay first, and in smaller 10lb
            > > batches instead of 100lb batches like Ray recommends, maybe this
            > > will get more clay/sand coverage before adding the oil/meth..
            > >
            > > The recipe Im using is/ 100 lb silica
            > > 6 lb Tixogel-Vp ,Organo-clay
            > > 3 lb Penzoil full/syn 2 stroke oil
            > > 1 lb Polar @ 95/5 Methonal/water
            > >
            > > .........Any Comments, Pointers , Help would be appreciated
            > >
            > > Thanks in advance........Edyn..NZ
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
            > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and
            to share
            > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
            > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
            > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
            > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
            > >
            > > Files area and list services are at:
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot
            be
            > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
            > > owly@t...
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
          • Leon Risenhoover
            excellent detail. I have a thumb print on one of my wheels I cast in grade 20-25 cast iron. I saw a quarter dollar that was cast with it. what material are you
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 23, 2004
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              excellent detail. I have a thumb print on one of my wheels I cast in grade
              20-25 cast iron. I saw a quarter dollar that was cast with it. what material
              are you casting?
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Edyn" <edynm@...>
              To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 5:03 PM
              Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"


              > Thanks for the comments,
              >
              > The problem was in the mixing, I remixed a new batch differantly
              > and it turned out fine.
              >
              > I am amazed at the Greenstrength of PB once the alcohol is added,
              > Its rams and packs nice, and gives nice detail.
              >
              > Happy Caster
              >
              > Regards ...Edyn..NZ
              >
              > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Leon Risenhoover <lrisen@d...>
              > wrote:
              > > I "mixed" ( my mixer did have some of the blades angled so to put
              > pressure
              > > on the contents) the pie and sand the then added the oil and I
              > think that is
              > > the way you do the k-bond also I only had a mixer at the time and
              > had no
              > > problems until the third usage and it became sticky to much oil I
              > think now
              > > I have a muller with 45lb wheels in it and mull it a bit dry and
              > add a
              > > little "heat" to moisten it up a little and then ram it right away
              > when I
              > > lift the flask the pattern runner and sprue base stays on the
              > index board
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "Edyn" <edynm@y...>
              > > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:03 PM
              > > Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"...
              > >
              > >
              > > > I have just mixed up my first batch of kb this weekend using
              > > > Toms/Rays recipe. I mixed it according to the tech sheet that
              > came
              > > > with the "Tixogel-Vp", It suggested to mix the clay with the
              > solvent
              > > > (Oil) under high speed shear,(To cause partial delamination of
              > the
              > > > platelets), then add the polar activater and reapply shear for
              > full
              > > > Activation and Gelling. I made a mixer disc with sharp blades and
              > > > used a drill at high speed.
              > > >
              > > > After mixing for a while the clay and oil turned into a really
              > > > stiff mud!, I added the Meth/H2o mix and it didnt really seem to
              > > > make too much differance at all.
              > > > I didnt think it looked right, but thought id try and mix it
              > into
              > > > the sand anyway.
              > > >
              > > > I spent a day Mixing it, Ramming it, Stompin on it, Running
              > through
              > > > sieves to try and get proper sand coverage but Its like the clay
              > and
              > > > oil are totally seperate from the sand(I aint got a muller!). Ive
              > > > added in more alcohol but that made no differance either. It
              > binds
              > > > slightly but has really "poor" Green strength and when doing a
              > break
              > > > test it sorta just crumbles apart.
              > > >
              > > > Im not certain what ive done Wrong? My measurments are correct,
              > > > The "Tixogel-vp" is rated the same as Bentone 34.
              > > >
              > > > The only thing I can think of is the mixing procedure, I will
              > try
              > > > and mix up a new batch with what sand etc I have left ova.
              > > > This time ill mix the sand/org-clay first, and in smaller 10lb
              > > > batches instead of 100lb batches like Ray recommends, maybe this
              > > > will get more clay/sand coverage before adding the oil/meth..
              > > >
              > > > The recipe Im using is/ 100 lb silica
              > > > 6 lb Tixogel-Vp ,Organo-clay
              > > > 3 lb Penzoil full/syn 2 stroke oil
              > > > 1 lb Polar @ 95/5 Methonal/water
              > > >
              > > > .........Any Comments, Pointers , Help would be appreciated
              > > >
              > > > Thanks in advance........Edyn..NZ
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
              > > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and
              > to share
              > > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
              > > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
              > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
              > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
              > > >
              > > > Files area and list services are at:
              > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot
              > be
              > > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
              > > > owly@t...
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              >
              >
              >
              > This list is for discussion of metal casting
              > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
              photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
              sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
              > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
              > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
              >
              > Files area and list services are at:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
              otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
              > owly@...
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Peter Sibley
              Edyn, how much K bond would you use in a full days casting ? I m getting interested in this stuff .its just that its so expensive to set up , Peter ... From:
              Message 6 of 18 , Aug 24, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Edyn,
                how much K bond would you use in a full days casting ? I'm getting
                interested in this stuff .its just that its so expensive to set up ,
                Peter
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Edyn" <edynm@...>
                To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:03 AM
                Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"


                > Thanks for the comments,
                >
                > The problem was in the mixing, I remixed a new batch differantly
                > and it turned out fine.
                >
                > I am amazed at the Greenstrength of PB once the alcohol is added,
                > Its rams and packs nice, and gives nice detail.
                >
                > Happy Caster
                >
                > Regards ...Edyn..NZ
                >
                > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Leon Risenhoover <lrisen@d...>
                > wrote:
                > > I "mixed" ( my mixer did have some of the blades angled so to put
                > pressure
                > > on the contents) the pie and sand the then added the oil and I
                > think that is
                > > the way you do the k-bond also I only had a mixer at the time and
                > had no
                > > problems until the third usage and it became sticky to much oil I
                > think now
                > > I have a muller with 45lb wheels in it and mull it a bit dry and
                > add a
                > > little "heat" to moisten it up a little and then ram it right away
                > when I
                > > lift the flask the pattern runner and sprue base stays on the
                > index board
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: "Edyn" <edynm@y...>
                > > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:03 PM
                > > Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"...
                > >
                > >
                > > > I have just mixed up my first batch of kb this weekend using
                > > > Toms/Rays recipe. I mixed it according to the tech sheet that
                > came
                > > > with the "Tixogel-Vp", It suggested to mix the clay with the
                > solvent
                > > > (Oil) under high speed shear,(To cause partial delamination of
                > the
                > > > platelets), then add the polar activater and reapply shear for
                > full
                > > > Activation and Gelling. I made a mixer disc with sharp blades and
                > > > used a drill at high speed.
                > > >
                > > > After mixing for a while the clay and oil turned into a really
                > > > stiff mud!, I added the Meth/H2o mix and it didnt really seem to
                > > > make too much differance at all.
                > > > I didnt think it looked right, but thought id try and mix it
                > into
                > > > the sand anyway.
                > > >
                > > > I spent a day Mixing it, Ramming it, Stompin on it, Running
                > through
                > > > sieves to try and get proper sand coverage but Its like the clay
                > and
                > > > oil are totally seperate from the sand(I aint got a muller!). Ive
                > > > added in more alcohol but that made no differance either. It
                > binds
                > > > slightly but has really "poor" Green strength and when doing a
                > break
                > > > test it sorta just crumbles apart.
                > > >
                > > > Im not certain what ive done Wrong? My measurments are correct,
                > > > The "Tixogel-vp" is rated the same as Bentone 34.
                > > >
                > > > The only thing I can think of is the mixing procedure, I will
                > try
                > > > and mix up a new batch with what sand etc I have left ova.
                > > > This time ill mix the sand/org-clay first, and in smaller 10lb
                > > > batches instead of 100lb batches like Ray recommends, maybe this
                > > > will get more clay/sand coverage before adding the oil/meth..
                > > >
                > > > The recipe Im using is/ 100 lb silica
                > > > 6 lb Tixogel-Vp ,Organo-clay
                > > > 3 lb Penzoil full/syn 2 stroke oil
                > > > 1 lb Polar @ 95/5 Methonal/water
                > > >
                > > > .........Any Comments, Pointers , Help would be appreciated
                > > >
                > > > Thanks in advance........Edyn..NZ
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                > > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and
                > to share
                > > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                > > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                > > >
                > > > Files area and list services are at:
                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot
                > be
                > > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                > > > owly@t...
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                >
                >
                >
                > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
                photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                >
                > Files area and list services are at:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                > owly@...
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Leon Risenhoover
                I m not trying to sell the stuff but petrobondII only cost me about $50+shipping (enough for 1000lb mix)the sand was ~$10 for 120 lb the muller is another
                Message 7 of 18 , Aug 24, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  I'm not trying to sell the stuff but petrobondII only cost me about
                  $50+shipping (enough for 1000lb mix)the sand was ~$10 for 120 lb the muller
                  is another problem though. I looked at the oregano clays and they were
                  around $4 a lb
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Peter Sibley" <sibleyp@...>
                  To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 5:04 PM
                  Subject: Re: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"


                  > Edyn,
                  > how much K bond would you use in a full days casting ? I'm getting
                  > interested in this stuff .its just that its so expensive to set up ,
                  > Peter
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Edyn" <edynm@...>
                  > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:03 AM
                  > Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"
                  >
                  >
                  > > Thanks for the comments,
                  > >
                  > > The problem was in the mixing, I remixed a new batch differantly
                  > > and it turned out fine.
                  > >
                  > > I am amazed at the Greenstrength of PB once the alcohol is added,
                  > > Its rams and packs nice, and gives nice detail.
                  > >
                  > > Happy Caster
                  > >
                  > > Regards ...Edyn..NZ
                  > >
                  > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Leon Risenhoover <lrisen@d...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > > I "mixed" ( my mixer did have some of the blades angled so to put
                  > > pressure
                  > > > on the contents) the pie and sand the then added the oil and I
                  > > think that is
                  > > > the way you do the k-bond also I only had a mixer at the time and
                  > > had no
                  > > > problems until the third usage and it became sticky to much oil I
                  > > think now
                  > > > I have a muller with 45lb wheels in it and mull it a bit dry and
                  > > add a
                  > > > little "heat" to moisten it up a little and then ram it right away
                  > > when I
                  > > > lift the flask the pattern runner and sprue base stays on the
                  > > index board
                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > From: "Edyn" <edynm@y...>
                  > > > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:03 PM
                  > > > Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"...
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > > I have just mixed up my first batch of kb this weekend using
                  > > > > Toms/Rays recipe. I mixed it according to the tech sheet that
                  > > came
                  > > > > with the "Tixogel-Vp", It suggested to mix the clay with the
                  > > solvent
                  > > > > (Oil) under high speed shear,(To cause partial delamination of
                  > > the
                  > > > > platelets), then add the polar activater and reapply shear for
                  > > full
                  > > > > Activation and Gelling. I made a mixer disc with sharp blades and
                  > > > > used a drill at high speed.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > After mixing for a while the clay and oil turned into a really
                  > > > > stiff mud!, I added the Meth/H2o mix and it didnt really seem to
                  > > > > make too much differance at all.
                  > > > > I didnt think it looked right, but thought id try and mix it
                  > > into
                  > > > > the sand anyway.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I spent a day Mixing it, Ramming it, Stompin on it, Running
                  > > through
                  > > > > sieves to try and get proper sand coverage but Its like the clay
                  > > and
                  > > > > oil are totally seperate from the sand(I aint got a muller!). Ive
                  > > > > added in more alcohol but that made no differance either. It
                  > > binds
                  > > > > slightly but has really "poor" Green strength and when doing a
                  > > break
                  > > > > test it sorta just crumbles apart.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Im not certain what ive done Wrong? My measurments are correct,
                  > > > > The "Tixogel-vp" is rated the same as Bentone 34.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The only thing I can think of is the mixing procedure, I will
                  > > try
                  > > > > and mix up a new batch with what sand etc I have left ova.
                  > > > > This time ill mix the sand/org-clay first, and in smaller 10lb
                  > > > > batches instead of 100lb batches like Ray recommends, maybe this
                  > > > > will get more clay/sand coverage before adding the oil/meth..
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The recipe Im using is/ 100 lb silica
                  > > > > 6 lb Tixogel-Vp ,Organo-clay
                  > > > > 3 lb Penzoil full/syn 2 stroke oil
                  > > > > 1 lb Polar @ 95/5 Methonal/water
                  > > > >
                  > > > > .........Any Comments, Pointers , Help would be appreciated
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thanks in advance........Edyn..NZ
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                  > > > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and
                  > > to share
                  > > > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                  > > > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                  > > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                  > > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Files area and list services are at:
                  > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot
                  > > be
                  > > > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                  > > > > owly@t...
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                  > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
                  > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                  > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                  > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                  > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                  > >
                  > > Files area and list services are at:
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                  > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                  > > owly@...
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                  > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
                  photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                  sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                  > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                  > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                  >
                  > Files area and list services are at:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                  otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
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                  >
                • Peter Sibley
                  PB sand cost me $50 for a 20 litre/5 gal drum here in Australia....were are you Leon ? Peter Sibley ... From: Leon Risenhoover To:
                  Message 8 of 18 , Aug 25, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    PB sand cost me $50 for a 20 litre/5 gal drum here in Australia....were are
                    you Leon ?
                    Peter Sibley
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Leon Risenhoover" <lrisen@...>
                    To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:59 PM
                    Subject: Re: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"


                    > I'm not trying to sell the stuff but petrobondII only cost me about
                    > $50+shipping (enough for 1000lb mix)the sand was ~$10 for 120 lb the
                    muller
                    > is another problem though. I looked at the oregano clays and they were
                    > around $4 a lb
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Peter Sibley" <sibleyp@...>
                    > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 5:04 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"
                    >
                    >
                    > > Edyn,
                    > > how much K bond would you use in a full days casting ? I'm getting
                    > > interested in this stuff .its just that its so expensive to set up ,
                    > > Peter
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: "Edyn" <edynm@...>
                    > > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:03 AM
                    > > Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > Thanks for the comments,
                    > > >
                    > > > The problem was in the mixing, I remixed a new batch differantly
                    > > > and it turned out fine.
                    > > >
                    > > > I am amazed at the Greenstrength of PB once the alcohol is added,
                    > > > Its rams and packs nice, and gives nice detail.
                    > > >
                    > > > Happy Caster
                    > > >
                    > > > Regards ...Edyn..NZ
                    > > >
                    > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Leon Risenhoover <lrisen@d...>
                    > > > wrote:
                    > > > > I "mixed" ( my mixer did have some of the blades angled so to put
                    > > > pressure
                    > > > > on the contents) the pie and sand the then added the oil and I
                    > > > think that is
                    > > > > the way you do the k-bond also I only had a mixer at the time and
                    > > > had no
                    > > > > problems until the third usage and it became sticky to much oil I
                    > > > think now
                    > > > > I have a muller with 45lb wheels in it and mull it a bit dry and
                    > > > add a
                    > > > > little "heat" to moisten it up a little and then ram it right away
                    > > > when I
                    > > > > lift the flask the pattern runner and sprue base stays on the
                    > > > index board
                    > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > > From: "Edyn" <edynm@y...>
                    > > > > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:03 PM
                    > > > > Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"...
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > > I have just mixed up my first batch of kb this weekend using
                    > > > > > Toms/Rays recipe. I mixed it according to the tech sheet that
                    > > > came
                    > > > > > with the "Tixogel-Vp", It suggested to mix the clay with the
                    > > > solvent
                    > > > > > (Oil) under high speed shear,(To cause partial delamination of
                    > > > the
                    > > > > > platelets), then add the polar activater and reapply shear for
                    > > > full
                    > > > > > Activation and Gelling. I made a mixer disc with sharp blades and
                    > > > > > used a drill at high speed.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > After mixing for a while the clay and oil turned into a really
                    > > > > > stiff mud!, I added the Meth/H2o mix and it didnt really seem to
                    > > > > > make too much differance at all.
                    > > > > > I didnt think it looked right, but thought id try and mix it
                    > > > into
                    > > > > > the sand anyway.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I spent a day Mixing it, Ramming it, Stompin on it, Running
                    > > > through
                    > > > > > sieves to try and get proper sand coverage but Its like the clay
                    > > > and
                    > > > > > oil are totally seperate from the sand(I aint got a muller!). Ive
                    > > > > > added in more alcohol but that made no differance either. It
                    > > > binds
                    > > > > > slightly but has really "poor" Green strength and when doing a
                    > > > break
                    > > > > > test it sorta just crumbles apart.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Im not certain what ive done Wrong? My measurments are correct,
                    > > > > > The "Tixogel-vp" is rated the same as Bentone 34.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The only thing I can think of is the mixing procedure, I will
                    > > > try
                    > > > > > and mix up a new batch with what sand etc I have left ova.
                    > > > > > This time ill mix the sand/org-clay first, and in smaller 10lb
                    > > > > > batches instead of 100lb batches like Ray recommends, maybe this
                    > > > > > will get more clay/sand coverage before adding the oil/meth..
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The recipe Im using is/ 100 lb silica
                    > > > > > 6 lb Tixogel-Vp ,Organo-clay
                    > > > > > 3 lb Penzoil full/syn 2 stroke oil
                    > > > > > 1 lb Polar @ 95/5 Methonal/water
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > .........Any Comments, Pointers , Help would be appreciated
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Thanks in advance........Edyn..NZ
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                    > > > > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and
                    > > > to share
                    > > > > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                    > > > > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                    > > > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                    > > > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Files area and list services are at:
                    > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot
                    > > > be
                    > > > > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                    > > > > > owly@t...
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                    > > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to
                    share
                    > > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                    > > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                    > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                    > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                    > > >
                    > > > Files area and list services are at:
                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                    > > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                    > > > owly@...
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                    > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
                    > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                    > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                    > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                    > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                    > >
                    > > Files area and list services are at:
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                    > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                    > > owly@...
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                    > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
                    photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                    sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                    > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                    > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                    >
                    > Files area and list services are at:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                    otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                    > owly@...
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Edyn
                    Peter, You not wrong about cost, The clay cost me around $280, I think it cost so much because of the process of makin the stuff. With four ltrs Oil, 10litres
                    Message 9 of 18 , Aug 25, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Peter,

                      You not wrong about cost, The clay cost me around $280, I think it
                      cost so much because of the process of makin the stuff. With four
                      ltrs Oil, 10litres Methonal, and 4 25kg bags of sand it ended up
                      being around $490 incl delivery costs.
                      Petrobond here is $120 per 25kg pail so it sort of ends up being
                      around the same price if you were going to buy 4 pails.

                      I have made up 75kgs so far (Blood "n" Guts with no Muller man!) And
                      it dont even look like Ive touched the clay, I have lots of Alcohol
                      and a bit of oil left ovar also. I normally do about three molds If
                      im gonna crank up the furnace to try and save Propane but 75kgs is
                      probley scratchin I think??

                      If you are thinkin of gettin some KB together Bela and Cam are in
                      Oz, they just went halves in some Clay, maybe they could sell you a
                      few Kgs? You dont need much alcohol at all and could probley get some
                      Isopropyl from a hardware. I used Penzoil but Castrol do a fully
                      Synthetic 2/stroke also.

                      If you can spare a few bucks Pete, I can ensure you its money well
                      spent!. I spent hours Re-Ramming Molds because of Cope drops with
                      Greensand. KB Ive found has excellant Tensile strength, I rammed a
                      flask yesterday and was jolting it resonably hard up n down and
                      couldnt get it to Drop, It rams up hard and pulls away from patterns
                      cleanly.

                      Let us know how you get on!

                      Regards....Edyn..Nz
















                      --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Sibley" <sibleyp@l...> wrote:
                      > Edyn,
                      > how much K bond would you use in a full days casting ? I'm getting
                      > interested in this stuff .its just that its so expensive to set up ,
                      > Peter
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Edyn" <edynm@y...>
                      > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:03 AM
                      > Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"
                      >
                      >
                      > > Thanks for the comments,
                      > >
                      > > The problem was in the mixing, I remixed a new batch differantly
                      > > and it turned out fine.
                      > >
                      > > I am amazed at the Greenstrength of PB once the alcohol is added,
                      > > Its rams and packs nice, and gives nice detail.
                      > >
                      > > Happy Caster
                      > >
                      > > Regards ...Edyn..NZ
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                      ---
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Leon Risenhoover <lrisen@d...>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > > I "mixed" ( my mixer did have some of the blades angled so to
                      put
                      > > pressure
                      > > > on the contents) the pie and sand the then added the oil and I
                      > > think that is
                      > > > the way you do the k-bond also I only had a mixer at the time
                      and
                      > > had no
                      > > > problems until the third usage and it became sticky to much oil
                      I
                      > > think now
                      > > > I have a muller with 45lb wheels in it and mull it a bit dry and
                      > > add a
                      > > > little "heat" to moisten it up a little and then ram it right
                      away
                      > > when I
                      > > > lift the flask the pattern runner and sprue base stays on the
                      > > index board
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: "Edyn" <edynm@y...>
                      > > > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:03 PM
                      > > > Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"...
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > > I have just mixed up my first batch of kb this weekend using
                      > > > > Toms/Rays recipe. I mixed it according to the tech sheet that
                      > > came
                      > > > > with the "Tixogel-Vp", It suggested to mix the clay with the
                      > > solvent
                      > > > > (Oil) under high speed shear,(To cause partial delamination of
                      > > the
                      > > > > platelets), then add the polar activater and reapply shear for
                      > > full
                      > > > > Activation and Gelling. I made a mixer disc with sharp blades
                      and
                      > > > > used a drill at high speed.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > After mixing for a while the clay and oil turned into a
                      really
                      > > > > stiff mud!, I added the Meth/H2o mix and it didnt really seem
                      to
                      > > > > make too much differance at all.
                      > > > > I didnt think it looked right, but thought id try and mix it
                      > > into
                      > > > > the sand anyway.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I spent a day Mixing it, Ramming it, Stompin on it, Running
                      > > through
                      > > > > sieves to try and get proper sand coverage but Its like the
                      clay
                      > > and
                      > > > > oil are totally seperate from the sand(I aint got a muller!).
                      Ive
                      > > > > added in more alcohol but that made no differance either. It
                      > > binds
                      > > > > slightly but has really "poor" Green strength and when doing a
                      > > break
                      > > > > test it sorta just crumbles apart.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Im not certain what ive done Wrong? My measurments are
                      correct,
                      > > > > The "Tixogel-vp" is rated the same as Bentone 34.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The only thing I can think of is the mixing procedure, I will
                      > > try
                      > > > > and mix up a new batch with what sand etc I have left ova.
                      > > > > This time ill mix the sand/org-clay first, and in smaller
                      10lb
                      > > > > batches instead of 100lb batches like Ray recommends, maybe
                      this
                      > > > > will get more clay/sand coverage before adding the oil/meth..
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The recipe Im using is/ 100 lb silica
                      > > > > 6 lb Tixogel-Vp ,Organo-clay
                      > > > > 3 lb Penzoil full/syn 2 stroke
                      oil
                      > > > > 1 lb Polar @ 95/5 Methonal/water
                      > > > >
                      > > > > .........Any Comments, Pointers , Help would be appreciated
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thanks in advance........Edyn..NZ
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                      > > > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and
                      > > to share
                      > > > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                      > > > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                      > > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                      > > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Files area and list services are at:
                      > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that
                      cannot
                      > > be
                      > > > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                      > > > > owly@t...
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                      > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to
                      share
                      > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                      > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                      > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                      > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                      > >
                      > > Files area and list services are at:
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot
                      be
                      > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                      > > owly@t...
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                    • Peter Sibley
                      Thanks Edyn.Wow ...thats expensive PB...its A$ 50 for a 25 kg pail here and thats still a lot .Perhaps I should just buy the PB already made up , Peter ...
                      Message 10 of 18 , Aug 25, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thanks Edyn.Wow ...thats expensive PB...its A$ 50 for a 25 kg pail here and
                        thats still a lot .Perhaps I should just buy the PB already made up ,
                        Peter
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Edyn" <edynm@...>
                        To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:37 PM
                        Subject: [hobbicast] Re: "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"


                        > Peter,
                        >
                        > You not wrong about cost, The clay cost me around $280, I think it
                        > cost so much because of the process of makin the stuff. With four
                        > ltrs Oil, 10litres Methonal, and 4 25kg bags of sand it ended up
                        > being around $490 incl delivery costs.
                        > Petrobond here is $120 per 25kg pail so it sort of ends up being
                        > around the same price if you were going to buy 4 pails.
                        >
                        > I have made up 75kgs so far (Blood "n" Guts with no Muller man!) And
                        > it dont even look like Ive touched the clay, I have lots of Alcohol
                        > and a bit of oil left ovar also. I normally do about three molds If
                        > im gonna crank up the furnace to try and save Propane but 75kgs is
                        > probley scratchin I think??
                        >
                        > If you are thinkin of gettin some KB together Bela and Cam are in
                        > Oz, they just went halves in some Clay, maybe they could sell you a
                        > few Kgs? You dont need much alcohol at all and could probley get some
                        > Isopropyl from a hardware. I used Penzoil but Castrol do a fully
                        > Synthetic 2/stroke also.
                        >
                        > If you can spare a few bucks Pete, I can ensure you its money well
                        > spent!. I spent hours Re-Ramming Molds because of Cope drops with
                        > Greensand. KB Ive found has excellant Tensile strength, I rammed a
                        > flask yesterday and was jolting it resonably hard up n down and
                        > couldnt get it to Drop, It rams up hard and pulls away from patterns
                        > cleanly.
                        >
                        > Let us know how you get on!
                        >
                        > Regards....Edyn..Nz
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Sibley" <sibleyp@l...> wrote:
                        > > Edyn,
                        > > how much K bond would you use in a full days casting ? I'm getting
                        > > interested in this stuff .its just that its so expensive to set up ,
                        > > Peter
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: "Edyn" <edynm@y...>
                        > > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:03 AM
                        > > Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > Thanks for the comments,
                        > > >
                        > > > The problem was in the mixing, I remixed a new batch differantly
                        > > > and it turned out fine.
                        > > >
                        > > > I am amazed at the Greenstrength of PB once the alcohol is added,
                        > > > Its rams and packs nice, and gives nice detail.
                        > > >
                        > > > Happy Caster
                        > > >
                        > > > Regards ...Edyn..NZ
                        > > >
                        > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > ---
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Leon Risenhoover <lrisen@d...>
                        > > > wrote:
                        > > > > I "mixed" ( my mixer did have some of the blades angled so to
                        > put
                        > > > pressure
                        > > > > on the contents) the pie and sand the then added the oil and I
                        > > > think that is
                        > > > > the way you do the k-bond also I only had a mixer at the time
                        > and
                        > > > had no
                        > > > > problems until the third usage and it became sticky to much oil
                        > I
                        > > > think now
                        > > > > I have a muller with 45lb wheels in it and mull it a bit dry and
                        > > > add a
                        > > > > little "heat" to moisten it up a little and then ram it right
                        > away
                        > > > when I
                        > > > > lift the flask the pattern runner and sprue base stays on the
                        > > > index board
                        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > > From: "Edyn" <edynm@y...>
                        > > > > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:03 PM
                        > > > > Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"...
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > I have just mixed up my first batch of kb this weekend using
                        > > > > > Toms/Rays recipe. I mixed it according to the tech sheet that
                        > > > came
                        > > > > > with the "Tixogel-Vp", It suggested to mix the clay with the
                        > > > solvent
                        > > > > > (Oil) under high speed shear,(To cause partial delamination of
                        > > > the
                        > > > > > platelets), then add the polar activater and reapply shear for
                        > > > full
                        > > > > > Activation and Gelling. I made a mixer disc with sharp blades
                        > and
                        > > > > > used a drill at high speed.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > After mixing for a while the clay and oil turned into a
                        > really
                        > > > > > stiff mud!, I added the Meth/H2o mix and it didnt really seem
                        > to
                        > > > > > make too much differance at all.
                        > > > > > I didnt think it looked right, but thought id try and mix it
                        > > > into
                        > > > > > the sand anyway.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I spent a day Mixing it, Ramming it, Stompin on it, Running
                        > > > through
                        > > > > > sieves to try and get proper sand coverage but Its like the
                        > clay
                        > > > and
                        > > > > > oil are totally seperate from the sand(I aint got a muller!).
                        > Ive
                        > > > > > added in more alcohol but that made no differance either. It
                        > > > binds
                        > > > > > slightly but has really "poor" Green strength and when doing a
                        > > > break
                        > > > > > test it sorta just crumbles apart.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Im not certain what ive done Wrong? My measurments are
                        > correct,
                        > > > > > The "Tixogel-vp" is rated the same as Bentone 34.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > The only thing I can think of is the mixing procedure, I will
                        > > > try
                        > > > > > and mix up a new batch with what sand etc I have left ova.
                        > > > > > This time ill mix the sand/org-clay first, and in smaller
                        > 10lb
                        > > > > > batches instead of 100lb batches like Ray recommends, maybe
                        > this
                        > > > > > will get more clay/sand coverage before adding the oil/meth..
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > The recipe Im using is/ 100 lb silica
                        > > > > > 6 lb Tixogel-Vp ,Organo-clay
                        > > > > > 3 lb Penzoil full/syn 2 stroke
                        > oil
                        > > > > > 1 lb Polar @ 95/5 Methonal/water
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > .........Any Comments, Pointers , Help would be appreciated
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Thanks in advance........Edyn..NZ
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                        > > > > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and
                        > > > to share
                        > > > > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                        > > > > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                        > > > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                        > > > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Files area and list services are at:
                        > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that
                        > cannot
                        > > > be
                        > > > > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                        > > > > > owly@t...
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                        > > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to
                        > share
                        > > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                        > > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                        > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                        > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                        > > >
                        > > > Files area and list services are at:
                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot
                        > be
                        > > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                        > > > owly@t...
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                        > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
                        photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                        sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                        > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                        > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                        >
                        > Files area and list services are at:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                        otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                        > owly@...
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                        >
                      • Leon Risenhoover
                        here in lies the problem for you. I only had to ship mine about 1000 miles I am in the usa and shipping was about $40 USD But it might be worth looking into
                        Message 11 of 18 , Aug 25, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          here in lies the problem for you. I only had to ship mine about 1000 miles I
                          am in the usa and shipping was about $40 USD But it might be worth looking
                          into just to see how much the shipping would be. the PBII that I am
                          referring to has no sand you would get that locally
                          http://www.foundryproductsinc.com/products.htm
                          Leon

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Peter Sibley" <sibleyp@...>
                          To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:11 AM
                          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"


                          > PB sand cost me $50 for a 20 litre/5 gal drum here in Australia....were
                          are
                          > you Leon ?
                          > Peter Sibley
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Leon Risenhoover" <lrisen@...>
                          > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:59 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"
                          >
                          >
                          > > I'm not trying to sell the stuff but petrobondII only cost me about
                          > > $50+shipping (enough for 1000lb mix)the sand was ~$10 for 120 lb the
                          > muller
                          > > is another problem though. I looked at the oregano clays and they were
                          > > around $4 a lb
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: "Peter Sibley" <sibleyp@...>
                          > > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 5:04 PM
                          > > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > > Edyn,
                          > > > how much K bond would you use in a full days casting ? I'm getting
                          > > > interested in this stuff .its just that its so expensive to set up ,
                          > > > Peter
                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > From: "Edyn" <edynm@...>
                          > > > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:03 AM
                          > > > Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > Thanks for the comments,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > The problem was in the mixing, I remixed a new batch differantly
                          > > > > and it turned out fine.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I am amazed at the Greenstrength of PB once the alcohol is added,
                          > > > > Its rams and packs nice, and gives nice detail.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Happy Caster
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Regards ...Edyn..NZ
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Leon Risenhoover <lrisen@d...>
                          > > > > wrote:
                          > > > > > I "mixed" ( my mixer did have some of the blades angled so to put
                          > > > > pressure
                          > > > > > on the contents) the pie and sand the then added the oil and I
                          > > > > think that is
                          > > > > > the way you do the k-bond also I only had a mixer at the time and
                          > > > > had no
                          > > > > > problems until the third usage and it became sticky to much oil I
                          > > > > think now
                          > > > > > I have a muller with 45lb wheels in it and mull it a bit dry and
                          > > > > add a
                          > > > > > little "heat" to moisten it up a little and then ram it right away
                          > > > > when I
                          > > > > > lift the flask the pattern runner and sprue base stays on the
                          > > > > index board
                          > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > > > From: "Edyn" <edynm@y...>
                          > > > > > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:03 PM
                          > > > > > Subject: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"...
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I have just mixed up my first batch of kb this weekend using
                          > > > > > > Toms/Rays recipe. I mixed it according to the tech sheet that
                          > > > > came
                          > > > > > > with the "Tixogel-Vp", It suggested to mix the clay with the
                          > > > > solvent
                          > > > > > > (Oil) under high speed shear,(To cause partial delamination of
                          > > > > the
                          > > > > > > platelets), then add the polar activater and reapply shear for
                          > > > > full
                          > > > > > > Activation and Gelling. I made a mixer disc with sharp blades
                          and
                          > > > > > > used a drill at high speed.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > After mixing for a while the clay and oil turned into a really
                          > > > > > > stiff mud!, I added the Meth/H2o mix and it didnt really seem to
                          > > > > > > make too much differance at all.
                          > > > > > > I didnt think it looked right, but thought id try and mix it
                          > > > > into
                          > > > > > > the sand anyway.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I spent a day Mixing it, Ramming it, Stompin on it, Running
                          > > > > through
                          > > > > > > sieves to try and get proper sand coverage but Its like the clay
                          > > > > and
                          > > > > > > oil are totally seperate from the sand(I aint got a muller!).
                          Ive
                          > > > > > > added in more alcohol but that made no differance either. It
                          > > > > binds
                          > > > > > > slightly but has really "poor" Green strength and when doing a
                          > > > > break
                          > > > > > > test it sorta just crumbles apart.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Im not certain what ive done Wrong? My measurments are correct,
                          > > > > > > The "Tixogel-vp" is rated the same as Bentone 34.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > The only thing I can think of is the mixing procedure, I will
                          > > > > try
                          > > > > > > and mix up a new batch with what sand etc I have left ova.
                          > > > > > > This time ill mix the sand/org-clay first, and in smaller 10lb
                          > > > > > > batches instead of 100lb batches like Ray recommends, maybe this
                          > > > > > > will get more clay/sand coverage before adding the oil/meth..
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > The recipe Im using is/ 100 lb silica
                          > > > > > > 6 lb Tixogel-Vp ,Organo-clay
                          > > > > > > 3 lb Penzoil full/syn 2 stroke oil
                          > > > > > > 1 lb Polar @ 95/5 Methonal/water
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > .........Any Comments, Pointers , Help would be appreciated
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Thanks in advance........Edyn..NZ
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                          > > > > > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and
                          > > > > to share
                          > > > > > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                          > > > > > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                          > > > > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                          > > > > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Files area and list services are at:
                          > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot
                          > > > > be
                          > > > > > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                          > > > > > > owly@t...
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                          > > > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to
                          > share
                          > > > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                          > > > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                          > > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                          > > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Files area and list services are at:
                          > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                          > > > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                          > > > > owly@...
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                          > > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to
                          share
                          > > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                          > > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                          > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                          > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                          > > >
                          > > > Files area and list services are at:
                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                          > > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                          > > > owly@...
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                          > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
                          > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                          > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                          > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                          > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                          > >
                          > > Files area and list services are at:
                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                          > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                          > > owly@...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                          > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
                          photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                          sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                          > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                          > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                          >
                          > Files area and list services are at:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                          otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
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                        • Clint D
                          Leon how does a person see what their pricing, etc from these people?? ... I
                          Message 12 of 18 , Aug 25, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Leon

                            how does a person see what their pricing, etc from these people??



                            > here in lies the problem for you. I only had to ship mine about 1000 miles
                            I
                            > am in the usa and shipping was about $40 USD But it might be worth looking
                            > into just to see how much the shipping would be. the PBII that I am
                            > referring to has no sand you would get that locally
                            > http://www.foundryproductsinc.com/products.htm
                            > Leon
                          • Leon Risenhoover
                            I called them but in your case that could break the bank. I would email them and ask if they have a price list. if you want I could call for you, if you would
                            Message 13 of 18 , Aug 25, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I called them but in your case that could break the bank. I would email them
                              and ask if they have a price list. if you want I could call for you, if you
                              would let me know what your interested in. the pbII I got about 3 months ago
                              was right at 1.04 USD per lb
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Clint D" <driggars@...>
                              To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:07 AM
                              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"


                              > Leon
                              >
                              > how does a person see what their pricing, etc from these people??
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > > here in lies the problem for you. I only had to ship mine about 1000
                              miles
                              > I
                              > > am in the usa and shipping was about $40 USD But it might be worth
                              looking
                              > > into just to see how much the shipping would be. the PBII that I am
                              > > referring to has no sand you would get that locally
                              > > http://www.foundryproductsinc.com/products.htm
                              > > Leon
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                              > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
                              photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                              sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                              > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                              > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                              >
                              > Files area and list services are at:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                              otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                              > owly@...
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Clint D
                              Leon ... them ... ago ... I am interested in pricing on their PB11, and maybe some of their Western and Southern bemtonite I did email them tonight to try to
                              Message 14 of 18 , Aug 26, 2004
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                                Leon




                                > I called them but in your case that could break the bank. I would email
                                them
                                > and ask if they have a price list. if you want I could call for you, if you
                                > would let me know what your interested in. the pbII I got about 3 months
                                ago
                                > was right at 1.04 USD per lb

                                I am interested in pricing on their PB11, and maybe some of their Western and
                                Southern bemtonite

                                I did email them tonight to try to get a price list of some kind? since they
                                have nothing on their site showing quantities, pricing, etc.

                                The PB11, I only need enoughj to make up aprox 200# PB sand

                                Clint


                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "Clint D" <driggars@...>
                                > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:07 AM
                                > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"
                                >
                                >
                                > > Leon
                                > >
                                > > how does a person see what their pricing, etc from these people??
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > > here in lies the problem for you. I only had to ship mine about 1000
                                > miles
                                > > I
                                > > > am in the usa and shipping was about $40 USD But it might be worth
                                > looking
                                > > > into just to see how much the shipping would be. the PBII that I am
                                > > > referring to has no sand you would get that locally
                                > > > http://www.foundryproductsinc.com/products.htm
                                > > > Leon
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                                > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
                                > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                                > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                > >
                                > > Files area and list services are at:
                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                                > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                                > > owly@...
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                                > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
                                photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                                sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                >
                                > Files area and list services are at:
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                                otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                                > owly@...
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Leon Risenhoover
                                Clint you would need only 10 lb of it. 5% pb 2% oil or 5lb pb 2lb oil 100lb sand. I add about 10% fresh to mine every time so you might get more of it. may be
                                Message 15 of 18 , Aug 26, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Clint
                                  you would need only 10 lb of it. 5% pb 2% oil or 5lb pb 2lb oil 100lb
                                  sand. I add about 10% fresh to mine every time so you might get more of it.
                                  may be you could get someone else to go in on some the pbII comes in a 50 lb
                                  bag BTW I will call tomorrow and let you know what they say tomorrow night
                                  (day for you LOL your Friday)
                                  .
                                • JohnW
                                  Clint Canfield & Joseph carries petrobond in their Kansas City location. Last October price was about $60/50lb bag. I never asked them about PBII. Contact
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Aug 26, 2004
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Clint
                                    Canfield & Joseph carries petrobond in their Kansas City location.
                                    Last October price was about $60/50lb bag. I never asked them about
                                    PBII.

                                    Contact there was

                                    Janice Beshears [jbeshears@...]

                                    John

                                    --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Leon Risenhoover <lrisen@d...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > Clint
                                    > you would need only 10 lb of it. 5% pb 2% oil or 5lb pb 2lb
                                    oil 100lb
                                    > sand. I add about 10% fresh to mine every time so you might get
                                    more of it.
                                    > may be you could get someone else to go in on some the pbII comes
                                    in a 50 lb
                                    > bag BTW I will call tomorrow and let you know what they say
                                    tomorrow night
                                    > (day for you LOL your Friday)
                                    > .
                                  • Leon Risenhoover
                                    John I called them about PBII and it took 2 weeks for then to call me back and say they couldn t get it. I am in Oklahoma city that would have saved me about
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Aug 26, 2004
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                                      John I called them about PBII and it took 2 weeks for then to call me back
                                      and say they couldn't get it. I am in Oklahoma city that would have saved me
                                      about 30 bucks in shipping. Greg is a nice guy to talk with though BTW we
                                      are talking about PB and PBII powder/nosand. no need to ship sand 8000 miles
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "JohnW" <john.walker@...>
                                      To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:05 AM
                                      Subject: [hobbicast] Re: "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"


                                      >
                                      > Clint
                                      > Canfield & Joseph carries petrobond in their Kansas City location.
                                      > Last October price was about $60/50lb bag. I never asked them about
                                      > PBII.
                                      >
                                      > Contact there was
                                      >
                                      > Janice Beshears [jbeshears@...]
                                      >
                                      > John
                                      >
                                      > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Leon Risenhoover <lrisen@d...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > > Clint
                                      > > you would need only 10 lb of it. 5% pb 2% oil or 5lb pb 2lb
                                      > oil 100lb
                                      > > sand. I add about 10% fresh to mine every time so you might get
                                      > more of it.
                                      > > may be you could get someone else to go in on some the pbII comes
                                      > in a 50 lb
                                      > > bag BTW I will call tomorrow and let you know what they say
                                      > tomorrow night
                                      > > (day for you LOL your Friday)
                                      > > .
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                    • Leon Risenhoover
                                      Clint; I didn t get a chance to call them work had some problems and as they say duty calls ... From: Clint D To:
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Aug 28, 2004
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                                        Clint; I didn't get a chance to call them work had some problems and as they
                                        say duty calls
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Clint D" <driggars@...>
                                        To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 2:01 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"


                                        > Leon
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > I called them but in your case that could break the bank. I would email
                                        > them
                                        > > and ask if they have a price list. if you want I could call for you, if
                                        you
                                        > > would let me know what your interested in. the pbII I got about 3 months
                                        > ago
                                        > > was right at 1.04 USD per lb
                                        >
                                        > I am interested in pricing on their PB11, and maybe some of their Western
                                        and
                                        > Southern bemtonite
                                        >
                                        > I did email them tonight to try to get a price list of some kind? since
                                        they
                                        > have nothing on their site showing quantities, pricing, etc.
                                        >
                                        > The PB11, I only need enoughj to make up aprox 200# PB sand
                                        >
                                        > Clint
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > From: "Clint D" <driggars@...>
                                        > > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:07 AM
                                        > > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] "K-BOND" WITH "NO BOND"
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > > Leon
                                        > > >
                                        > > > how does a person see what their pricing, etc from these people??
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > > here in lies the problem for you. I only had to ship mine about 1000
                                        > > miles
                                        > > > I
                                        > > > > am in the usa and shipping was about $40 USD But it might be worth
                                        > > looking
                                        > > > > into just to see how much the shipping would be. the PBII that I am
                                        > > > > referring to has no sand you would get that locally
                                        > > > > http://www.foundryproductsinc.com/products.htm
                                        > > > > Leon
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                                        > > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to
                                        share
                                        > > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                                        > > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                        > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                        > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Files area and list services are at:
                                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                                        > > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                                        > > > owly@...
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                                        > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
                                        > photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                                        > sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                        > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                        > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                        > >
                                        > > Files area and list services are at:
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                                        > otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                                        > > owly@...
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                                        > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
                                        photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                                        sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                                        > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                                        > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                                        >
                                        > Files area and list services are at:
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                                        otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
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                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
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                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
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