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Re: soldering Iron element as foam cutter (long reply!)

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  • Ed Paradis
    Hi Charles, Seems like you ve been to his site . The coil that I used in mine was obtained from a HVAC supply, it s normally used as an auxillary electric
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 1, 2004
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      Hi Charles, Seems like you've been to his site <g>. The coil that I
      used in mine was obtained from a HVAC supply, it's normally used as
      an auxillary electric heater (duct heater element) in a heat pump.
      If I remember correctly, it's rated at 3600 watts at 240vac and cost
      me about $6.00USD. It draws just under 15 amps at cold start, then
      drops a little (nichrome wire rises in resistance as it gets hotter),
      so it was perfect for the control which is rated for 15 amps. I've
      heard of other folks winding their own elements using stainless mig
      wire, but I don't have the specifics on it. The element that I use
      is about 5/16" diameter, and stretched out to about 10' with about
      3/8" - 1/2" coil spacing. I put a rope in the slots from one
      terminal around to the other, to give the closest approxiamation of
      the actual coil length, and then carefully stretched the element to
      match the rope. I terminated the coil ends on stainless all-thread
      rod, wedging the ends between 2 stainless washers and then clamped
      with a stainless nut. The stainless seems to handle the enviroment
      inside the furnace better than plain steel.

      On the foam cutter, I used a surplus transformer that is capable
      of providing about 4 amps. The wire that I use on mine is actually a
      short section of the same wire that I use for the furnace element and
      draws about 2-3 amps at full, less in actual use. I never use it
      glowing red, you typically won't see any color change in use as the
      foam cuts at a relatively low temp. The only time I take it up to
      red is to "clean" the wire of the plastic residue. I don't use any
      type of a rectifier with mine, it's straight AC. There's no need to
      use DC, unless it's all that you have. It won't make any difference
      in the cut nor the operation of the cutter with DC. The wire is the
      only load, and for a single phase operation, it makes no difference
      whether it's AC or DC. No need for more components to complicate
      things. I've heard of some folks using old battery chargers that the
      DC part has fried in and just using the transformer with a control on
      the primary (input) side of it to vary the current on the output.
      You may have to play a little with the length of the wire, to get the
      output current where you want it to keep from burning the wire up.
      The output voltage on my transformer is about 8vac, and the length of
      wire that I use with it is about 12". With the fan speed controller,
      I can modulate the current to the wire from barely warm to "burn your
      finger off" hot, so it gives me plenty of range. I've also made some
      hand-held hotwire tools that I can hook up in series with the main
      hot wire and do some freehand forming of foam using short sections of
      nichrome wire and a section of broom handle dowel. When the Photo's
      section is unloaded some, I'll post some pictures of mine in my
      section. If I put them there now, it'll crash the photo's section
      since it's 99% full (hint to the owner/moderator!).
      On the ducting, check with some of the local companies that
      install commercial HVAC equipment and see if they might have a short
      section that they would give you, or check the job sites on places
      that are being renovated. I was able to get a section of 18"
      diameter duct from a contractor for nothing, just for asking.

      The bottom line with most of this is to not be locked into doing
      something just one way (unless it's the only safe way).


      Ed
      "Expiring minds want to know!"
      --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <lancedulak@y...> wrote:
      > Helps a lot and i got my inspiration from the same place you did.
      > His site is amazing. I pity his wife though *GRIN* That seems
      > incredibly attractive considering i was going to build an induction
      > furnace (that would operate like a cupola). the heat treating
      aspect
      > didnt even occur to me.
      >
      > My "expense worries" are because i checked the backyard casting
      > supply place and saw that it would basically cost me $70 just for
      > the wire. (I want to be Capable of doing brass and iron.. though i
      > dont want to do them if that makes sense?) Which is a lot when you
      > consider that my original reason for a furnace was to save money by
      > melting scrap. (GOD metalworking is addicting and expensive!
      > especially when your hooked on CNC). Im still sorta with that
      > because al suppliers are very hinky on pricing. be much simpler if
      > they would give you a flat charge per pound. course shipping still
      > eats you alive. The thing is the way dan constructed his, its just
      > too neat a concept not to do. Get a box of sand and an extinguisher
      > and i see no reason not to cast in your garage using his kiln. I
      > thought about buying the raw wire by the pound and making my own
      > coils for the furnace (the stuff is actually cheap in raw uncoiled
      > form) but dont know the diameters. Using firebrick was genius and i
      > wish id known you could before building my charcoal furnace. i
      guess
      > ill just put it off til i cant resist it and go ahead. can you
      > reccomend a source for the ducting? Thats been the biggest drawback
      > of a lot of my projects. Having to scrounge for a container or go
      to
      > walmart and pay 20 bucks for a cheap pot to make whatever out of. I
      > want to build an 16-18" diameter kiln but i refuse to pay hardware
      > store prices for sheet metal.
      >
      > ive used the battery charger playing with foam cutting and its way
      > over the top. The one i have is "profesional" quality.. it will
      > start a car with a dead battery on its own. And its not something
      > i'll use every day so i want it small. Im thinking ,like you, just
      > using a small transformer
      > and a potentionmeter. Heck you could use a rectifier bridge.
      > suprised noone sells them 'prebuilt". Do you know the actual
      > amperages you use? I could go to radio shack and throw together a
      > rectifier setup that would fit in a cigarette pack and toss plans
      > for it here if it worked.
      >
      > Thanks a Lot for all your help
      >
      >
      > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Paradis" <eparadis@a...>
      wrote:
      > > Hi Charles, I can't speculate on the soldering iron situation,
      but
      > > if you've got the battery charger, you've got a decent power
      > supply
      > > to run a hot wire with. A lot of folks use a battery charger as
      > the
      > > power supply with these, but I just use a heavy AC transformer
      and
      > a
      > > fan speed control with mine. I probably don't have more than
      > > $10.00USD in mine, but I'm an excellent scrounger. All that is
      > > basically required for a hot wire cutter is a power supply with
      > some
      > > means of controlling the amperage to the wire, the wire itself
      > (can
      > > be either nichrome wire or some folks use music wire, guitar
      > > strings, etc) and a frame to hold the wire straight (or in the
      > case
      > > of a hand-held cutter, something to isolate the wires and keep
      you
      > > from burning yourself). It can be very simple or very complex,
      > > depending on what you put into it.
      > >
      > > On the Kiln subject: many folks make their own. It's quite
      > > possible to make something like this for little money. I built
      my
      > > furnace (not exactly a kiln, but could be used as such for small
      > > items) based on Dan Hartman's design (
      http://www.dansworkshop.com
      > > if I remember correctly) using firebricks and nichrome wire,
      > > castable refractory, some old HVAC ducting, a stove top
      > controller,
      > > and few other doo-dads. I figure that I've got less than
      > $50.00USD
      > > in it, but like I said earlier, I'm an excellent scrounger. I've
      > > used it for over a year, only replaced the element once (my
      fault,
      > > make sure that you keep all metal inside the crucible, it doesn't
      > > treat the element well when you get stuff on it, especially
      > > Magnesium). I had the thing up as high as 2000 deg. F, and done
      > > brass with it once. It takes about an hour from cold start to
      the
      > > first pour, I use that time to finish molds, get other thing
      > setup,
      > > etc. Subsequent melts take much less time after the refractory
      is
      > > heated up. The only thing I would do different next time is to
      > make
      > > it a little larger on the inside to accomodate slightly larger
      > > crucibles and tongs (don't forget to allow room for tongs!). I
      > > incorporated wheels into the design on mine to make it a little
      > more
      > > easily moveable (notice I didn't say portable, 160#'s isn't
      > exactly
      > > portable), plus with the design of it being in three sections, I
      > can
      > > take to bottom section off, put the core and top on blocks and
      use
      > > it as a burnout furnace for lost wax, plus since I can control
      the
      > > temperature much more precisely than a gas furnace, I can also
      use
      > > it for heat treating small parts, and, since it's electric, I can
      > > run it indoors without killing myself with CO. Electricity where
      > I
      > > live is relatively cheap, and running the furnace for an hour is
      > > equal to about 3.6 Kwh, less than most household dryers. I may
      > have
      > > pictures of mine in the Photos section under "Ed'sstuff".
      > >
      > > I hope this helps,
      > >
      > > Ed
      > > "Expiring minds want to know"
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <lancedulak@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > > I was getting around to making a foam cutter using a.. rather
      > > overly
      > > > expensive battery charger i have here (it will turn a knife
      > blade
      > > > yellow without shutting itself off) but bought a cheap $7
      > > soldering
      > > > iron because i lost my good one.. and it just occurred to me i
      > > > should probably use it? has anyone tried it? Ive dismantled it
      > and
      > > > it appears to be nothing but a coil of resistance wire around a
      > > > steel stud. seems to me this would make a great element unless
      > > > uncoiling it will make it useless.
      > > >
      > > > In addition im considering building an electric kiln. Totaly
      > cost
      > > > probably 120 or so. But im cheap and i only really cast for
      > > material
      > > > to mill. Has anyone done it? Using a charcoal furnace is dirty
      > and
      > > > takes hours by the time your done. propane sounds LOUD.
      electric
      > > > sounds the way to go except it seems it could get expensive and
      > i
      > > > might just be better off buying raw material. $120 will get you
      > a
      > > > LOT of aluminum. How long do melts take though. would it be
      safe
      > > to
      > > > use indoors? any help would be appreciated
      > > >
      > > > PS ive only used lost foam so far.. i love it. but plan on
      doing
      > > > some mold casting asap for pulleys etc for a small lathe. cant
      > > wait.
    • Charles
      Thanks a lot for all the info. Im finishing cnc ing my mill up today and think ill do a hot foam cutter tonight or in the morning using your transformer
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 2, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Thanks a lot for all the info. Im finishing cnc'ing my mill up today
        and think ill do a hot foam cutter tonight or in the morning using
        your transformer suggestion.

        On the furnace i think ill take your advice and scrounge. Ill be
        moving in 3 months and no guarantee ill even be able to use the
        furnace there so im not going to put any real money into it. Ill
        probably be in a 2 bedroom apartment with one bedroom transformed
        into a "shop". Dont think they'd appreciate a 3000 degree furnace
        running!!

        --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Paradis" <eparadis@a...> wrote:
        > Hi Charles, Seems like you've been to his site <g>. The coil that
        I
        > used in mine was obtained from a HVAC supply, it's normally used
        as
        > an auxillary electric heater (duct heater element) in a heat
        pump.
        > If I remember correctly, it's rated at 3600 watts at 240vac and
        cost
        > me about $6.00USD. It draws just under 15 amps at cold start,
        then
        > drops a little (nichrome wire rises in resistance as it gets
        hotter),
        > so it was perfect for the control which is rated for 15 amps.
        I've
        > heard of other folks winding their own elements using stainless
        mig
        > wire, but I don't have the specifics on it. The element that I
        use
        > is about 5/16" diameter, and stretched out to about 10' with about
        > 3/8" - 1/2" coil spacing. I put a rope in the slots from one
        > terminal around to the other, to give the closest approxiamation
        of
        > the actual coil length, and then carefully stretched the element
        to
        > match the rope. I terminated the coil ends on stainless all-
        thread
        > rod, wedging the ends between 2 stainless washers and then clamped
        > with a stainless nut. The stainless seems to handle the
        enviroment
        > inside the furnace better than plain steel.
        >
        > On the foam cutter, I used a surplus transformer that is
        capable
        > of providing about 4 amps. The wire that I use on mine is
        actually a
        > short section of the same wire that I use for the furnace element
        and
        > draws about 2-3 amps at full, less in actual use. I never use it
        > glowing red, you typically won't see any color change in use as
        the
        > foam cuts at a relatively low temp. The only time I take it up to
        > red is to "clean" the wire of the plastic residue. I don't use
        any
        > type of a rectifier with mine, it's straight AC. There's no need
        to
        > use DC, unless it's all that you have. It won't make any
        difference
        > in the cut nor the operation of the cutter with DC. The wire is
        the
        > only load, and for a single phase operation, it makes no
        difference
        > whether it's AC or DC. No need for more components to complicate
        > things. I've heard of some folks using old battery chargers that
        the
        > DC part has fried in and just using the transformer with a control
        on
        > the primary (input) side of it to vary the current on the output.
        > You may have to play a little with the length of the wire, to get
        the
        > output current where you want it to keep from burning the wire
        up.
        > The output voltage on my transformer is about 8vac, and the length
        of
        > wire that I use with it is about 12". With the fan speed
        controller,
        > I can modulate the current to the wire from barely warm to "burn
        your
        > finger off" hot, so it gives me plenty of range. I've also made
        some
        > hand-held hotwire tools that I can hook up in series with the main
        > hot wire and do some freehand forming of foam using short sections
        of
        > nichrome wire and a section of broom handle dowel. When the
        Photo's
        > section is unloaded some, I'll post some pictures of mine in my
        > section. If I put them there now, it'll crash the photo's section
        > since it's 99% full (hint to the owner/moderator!).
        > On the ducting, check with some of the local companies that
        > install commercial HVAC equipment and see if they might have a
        short
        > section that they would give you, or check the job sites on places
        > that are being renovated. I was able to get a section of 18"
        > diameter duct from a contractor for nothing, just for asking.
        >
        > The bottom line with most of this is to not be locked into
        doing
        > something just one way (unless it's the only safe way).
        >
        >
        > Ed
        > "Expiring minds want to know!"
        > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <lancedulak@y...>
        wrote:
        > > Helps a lot and i got my inspiration from the same place you
        did.
        > > His site is amazing. I pity his wife though *GRIN* That seems
        > > incredibly attractive considering i was going to build an
        induction
        > > furnace (that would operate like a cupola). the heat treating
        > aspect
        > > didnt even occur to me.
        > >
        > > My "expense worries" are because i checked the backyard casting
        > > supply place and saw that it would basically cost me $70 just
        for
        > > the wire. (I want to be Capable of doing brass and iron.. though
        i
        > > dont want to do them if that makes sense?) Which is a lot when
        you
        > > consider that my original reason for a furnace was to save money
        by
        > > melting scrap. (GOD metalworking is addicting and expensive!
        > > especially when your hooked on CNC). Im still sorta with that
        > > because al suppliers are very hinky on pricing. be much simpler
        if
        > > they would give you a flat charge per pound. course shipping
        still
        > > eats you alive. The thing is the way dan constructed his, its
        just
        > > too neat a concept not to do. Get a box of sand and an
        extinguisher
        > > and i see no reason not to cast in your garage using his kiln. I
        > > thought about buying the raw wire by the pound and making my own
        > > coils for the furnace (the stuff is actually cheap in raw
        uncoiled
        > > form) but dont know the diameters. Using firebrick was genius
        and i
        > > wish id known you could before building my charcoal furnace. i
        > guess
        > > ill just put it off til i cant resist it and go ahead. can you
        > > reccomend a source for the ducting? Thats been the biggest
        drawback
        > > of a lot of my projects. Having to scrounge for a container or
        go
        > to
        > > walmart and pay 20 bucks for a cheap pot to make whatever out
        of. I
        > > want to build an 16-18" diameter kiln but i refuse to pay
        hardware
        > > store prices for sheet metal.
        > >
        > > ive used the battery charger playing with foam cutting and its
        way
        > > over the top. The one i have is "profesional" quality.. it will
        > > start a car with a dead battery on its own. And its not
        something
        > > i'll use every day so i want it small. Im thinking ,like you,
        just
        > > using a small transformer
        > > and a potentionmeter. Heck you could use a rectifier bridge.
        > > suprised noone sells them 'prebuilt". Do you know the actual
        > > amperages you use? I could go to radio shack and throw together
        a
        > > rectifier setup that would fit in a cigarette pack and toss
        plans
        > > for it here if it worked.
        > >
        > > Thanks a Lot for all your help
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Paradis" <eparadis@a...>
        > wrote:
        > > > Hi Charles, I can't speculate on the soldering iron situation,
        > but
        > > > if you've got the battery charger, you've got a decent power
        > > supply
        > > > to run a hot wire with. A lot of folks use a battery charger
        as
        > > the
        > > > power supply with these, but I just use a heavy AC transformer
        > and
        > > a
        > > > fan speed control with mine. I probably don't have more than
        > > > $10.00USD in mine, but I'm an excellent scrounger. All that
        is
        > > > basically required for a hot wire cutter is a power supply
        with
        > > some
        > > > means of controlling the amperage to the wire, the wire itself
        > > (can
        > > > be either nichrome wire or some folks use music wire, guitar
        > > > strings, etc) and a frame to hold the wire straight (or in the
        > > case
        > > > of a hand-held cutter, something to isolate the wires and keep
        > you
        > > > from burning yourself). It can be very simple or very
        complex,
        > > > depending on what you put into it.
        > > >
        > > > On the Kiln subject: many folks make their own. It's
        quite
        > > > possible to make something like this for little money. I
        built
        > my
        > > > furnace (not exactly a kiln, but could be used as such for
        small
        > > > items) based on Dan Hartman's design (
        > http://www.dansworkshop.com
        > > > if I remember correctly) using firebricks and nichrome wire,
        > > > castable refractory, some old HVAC ducting, a stove top
        > > controller,
        > > > and few other doo-dads. I figure that I've got less than
        > > $50.00USD
        > > > in it, but like I said earlier, I'm an excellent scrounger.
        I've
        > > > used it for over a year, only replaced the element once (my
        > fault,
        > > > make sure that you keep all metal inside the crucible, it
        doesn't
        > > > treat the element well when you get stuff on it, especially
        > > > Magnesium). I had the thing up as high as 2000 deg. F, and
        done
        > > > brass with it once. It takes about an hour from cold start to
        > the
        > > > first pour, I use that time to finish molds, get other thing
        > > setup,
        > > > etc. Subsequent melts take much less time after the
        refractory
        > is
        > > > heated up. The only thing I would do different next time is
        to
        > > make
        > > > it a little larger on the inside to accomodate slightly larger
        > > > crucibles and tongs (don't forget to allow room for tongs!).
        I
        > > > incorporated wheels into the design on mine to make it a
        little
        > > more
        > > > easily moveable (notice I didn't say portable, 160#'s isn't
        > > exactly
        > > > portable), plus with the design of it being in three sections,
        I
        > > can
        > > > take to bottom section off, put the core and top on blocks and
        > use
        > > > it as a burnout furnace for lost wax, plus since I can control
        > the
        > > > temperature much more precisely than a gas furnace, I can also
        > use
        > > > it for heat treating small parts, and, since it's electric, I
        can
        > > > run it indoors without killing myself with CO. Electricity
        where
        > > I
        > > > live is relatively cheap, and running the furnace for an hour
        is
        > > > equal to about 3.6 Kwh, less than most household dryers. I
        may
        > > have
        > > > pictures of mine in the Photos section under "Ed'sstuff".
        > > >
        > > > I hope this helps,
        > > >
        > > > Ed
        > > > "Expiring minds want to know"
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <lancedulak@y...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > > I was getting around to making a foam cutter using a..
        rather
        > > > overly
        > > > > expensive battery charger i have here (it will turn a knife
        > > blade
        > > > > yellow without shutting itself off) but bought a cheap $7
        > > > soldering
        > > > > iron because i lost my good one.. and it just occurred to me
        i
        > > > > should probably use it? has anyone tried it? Ive dismantled
        it
        > > and
        > > > > it appears to be nothing but a coil of resistance wire
        around a
        > > > > steel stud. seems to me this would make a great element
        unless
        > > > > uncoiling it will make it useless.
        > > > >
        > > > > In addition im considering building an electric kiln. Totaly
        > > cost
        > > > > probably 120 or so. But im cheap and i only really cast for
        > > > material
        > > > > to mill. Has anyone done it? Using a charcoal furnace is
        dirty
        > > and
        > > > > takes hours by the time your done. propane sounds LOUD.
        > electric
        > > > > sounds the way to go except it seems it could get expensive
        and
        > > i
        > > > > might just be better off buying raw material. $120 will get
        you
        > > a
        > > > > LOT of aluminum. How long do melts take though. would it be
        > safe
        > > > to
        > > > > use indoors? any help would be appreciated
        > > > >
        > > > > PS ive only used lost foam so far.. i love it. but plan on
        > doing
        > > > > some mold casting asap for pulleys etc for a small lathe.
        cant
        > > > wait.
      • Alaric B Snell
        ... I m in a 2-bed flat, with one bedroom converted into an office. I do all my molten metal magic out in the back yard - where I have to pack and unpack
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 2, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Charles wrote:

          > On the furnace i think ill take your advice and scrounge. Ill be
          > moving in 3 months and no guarantee ill even be able to use the
          > furnace there so im not going to put any real money into it. Ill
          > probably be in a 2 bedroom apartment with one bedroom transformed
          > into a "shop". Dont think they'd appreciate a 3000 degree furnace
          > running!!

          I'm in a 2-bed flat, with one bedroom converted into an office. I do all
          my molten metal magic out in the back yard - where I have to pack and
          unpack everything from a cramped, leaking, and slug-ridden shed :-( It's
          no fun.

          When I next move, "large outhouse" will be a requirement for the new
          place, I think.

          What do others have for workshops?

          I want to try my hand at blacksmithing, and I think a gas forge with an
          anvil to the left (being right handed, I'd be working at the anvil, and
          then be able to shove stuff into the heat without reaching across my
          body) and a large stout table at just below waist height, filled in sand
          a few inches deep with a heatproof lip around the edge, would be great
          for pouring moulds on, especiall if it had a recessed bit to put the
          furnace on so the top was at waist height too - my current furnace
          experiments involve crouching down to floor level, which does my lower
          back in after a while.

          I'm also having crazy plans about running propane supply pipes
          everywhere with outlets sporting a nice ball valve and a POL female
          thingy like on a standard cylinder, connected to a cylinder outside. I'd
          put a high-output 4 bar regulator on the cylinder itself and then screw
          regulators in where I plugged stuff in. I've a feeling this could be
          done in a way that's safer than having multiple propane cylinders around
          for running forge, brazing torch, and foundry burners - having all of
          the stored propane outside the building with a master shutoff appeals to me.

          ABS
        • euemust kidding
          For the table get the biggest 1 plate [or thicker] you can find and weld legs to it with cross support, i just have a 2 car garage, [which i negoiated with the
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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            For the table get the biggest 1"plate [or thicker] you can find and weld legs to it with cross support, i just have a 2 car garage, [which i negoiated with the missus B4 we moved in, we plan on moving in the next 2-3 years 2-4 car garage out building [or2] and at least 5 acers

            Alaric B Snell <alaric@...> wrote:Charles wrote:

            > On the furnace i think ill take your advice and scrounge. Ill be
            > moving in 3 months and no guarantee ill even be able to use the
            > furnace there so im not going to put any real money into it. Ill
            > probably be in a 2 bedroom apartment with one bedroom transformed
            > into a "shop". Dont think they'd appreciate a 3000 degree furnace
            > running!!

            I'm in a 2-bed flat, with one bedroom converted into an office. I do all
            my molten metal magic out in the back yard - where I have to pack and
            unpack everything from a cramped, leaking, and slug-ridden shed :-( It's
            no fun.

            When I next move, "large outhouse" will be a requirement for the new
            place, I think.

            What do others have for workshops?

            I want to try my hand at blacksmithing, and I think a gas forge with an
            anvil to the left (being right handed, I'd be working at the anvil, and
            then be able to shove stuff into the heat without reaching across my
            body) and a large stout table at just below waist height, filled in sand
            a few inches deep with a heatproof lip around the edge, would be great
            for pouring moulds on, especiall if it had a recessed bit to put the
            furnace on so the top was at waist height too - my current furnace
            experiments involve crouching down to floor level, which does my lower
            back in after a while.

            I'm also having crazy plans about running propane supply pipes
            everywhere with outlets sporting a nice ball valve and a POL female
            thingy like on a standard cylinder, connected to a cylinder outside. I'd
            put a high-output 4 bar regulator on the cylinder itself and then screw
            regulators in where I plugged stuff in. I've a feeling this could be
            done in a way that's safer than having multiple propane cylinders around
            for running forge, brazing torch, and foundry burners - having all of
            the stored propane outside the building with a master shutoff appeals to me.

            ABS




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          • Charles
            ... do all ... and ... ( It s ... Im moving back to north florida and places like that are hard to come by if your not rich. id even deal with a trashy place
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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              >
              > I'm in a 2-bed flat, with one bedroom converted into an office. I
              do all
              > my molten metal magic out in the back yard - where I have to pack
              and
              > unpack everything from a cramped, leaking, and slug-ridden shed :-
              ( It's
              > no fun.
              >
              Im moving back to north florida and places like that are hard to
              come by if your not rich. id even deal with a 'trashy' place if i
              had a big garage or back yard to work in. *sigh* lets hope

              > When I next move, "large outhouse" will be a requirement for the
              new
              > place, I think.
              >
              > What do others have for workshops?
              >
              I do my stuff in a small storage building (a real one not the tin
              premade shacks) but will be saying goodbye to all that. Im going to
              try to pour a couple hundred pounds of scrap into bars before i go
              for working material. It just occurred to me that a TINY induction
              furnace would be ideal. Useable indoors. If you have say a 2" or 3"
              opening you cna cut stuff up.. drop it in to melt it... let it pour
              down a chute liek a cupola does into a sand box. No chance of metal
              spillign etc. Pretty safe for indoors if its bedded in sand too.

              > I want to try my hand at blacksmithing, and I think a gas forge
              with an
              > anvil to the left (being right handed, I'd be working at the
              anvil, and
              > then be able to shove stuff into the heat without reaching across
              my
              > body) and a large stout table at just below waist height, filled
              in sand
              > a few inches deep with a heatproof lip around the edge, would be
              great
              > for pouring moulds on, especiall if it had a recessed bit to put
              the
              > furnace on so the top was at waist height too - my current furnace
              > experiments involve crouching down to floor level, which does my
              lower
              > back in after a while.

              Sounds like a nice setup
              >
              > I'm also having crazy plans about running propane supply pipes
              > everywhere with outlets sporting a nice ball valve and a POL
              female
              > thingy like on a standard cylinder, connected to a cylinder
              outside. I'd
              > put a high-output 4 bar regulator on the cylinder itself and then
              screw
              > regulators in where I plugged stuff in. I've a feeling this could
              be
              > done in a way that's safer than having multiple propane cylinders
              around
              > for running forge, brazing torch, and foundry burners - having all
              of
              > the stored propane outside the building with a master shutoff
              appeals to me.

              Just a suggestion. I wouldnt do that. It sounds neat. And like a lot
              of work. And overkill. And MORe not less dangerous. A lot more
              joints and pipe to spring leaks etc.

              Good luck if yo udo though
              >
              > ABS
            • Alaric B Snell
              Charles wrote: [propane piping] ... People manage to pipe natural gas around houses, though... I dunno, I just feel edgy having propane tanks standing around
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                Charles wrote:

                [propane piping]
                > Just a suggestion. I wouldnt do that. It sounds neat. And like a lot
                > of work. And overkill. And MORe not less dangerous. A lot more
                > joints and pipe to spring leaks etc.

                People manage to pipe natural gas around houses, though... I dunno, I
                just feel edgy having propane tanks standing around where there's molten
                metal :-)

                Plan B was to make/buy little wheeled stands for them so they're kept
                off the ground and are easy to wheel out to the car for taking to the
                refilling place.

                ABS
              • Alaric B Snell
                ... I see a lot of large thick iron/steel (rusted, but the nice hard black oxide layer rather than flakey red stuff) metal plates around where I live being
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  euemust kidding wrote:
                  > For the table get the biggest 1"plate [or thicker] you can find and
                  > weld legs to it with cross support, i just have a 2 car garage,
                  > [which i negoiated with the missus B4 we moved in, we plan on moving
                  > in the next 2-3 years 2-4 car garage out building [or2] and at least
                  > 5 acers

                  I see a lot of large thick iron/steel (rusted, but the nice hard black
                  oxide layer rather than flakey red stuff) metal plates around where I
                  live being used as temporary 'bridges' over roadworking holes, that
                  support the weights of pedestrians.

                  After one of the crews cleared up there was one of these plates left
                  lying there, but before I could figure out a way of getting it home (it
                  was about 1x2 metres), it disappeared :-(

                  ABS
                • Daniel C Postellon
                  ... Go for it! ... I have a 10 by 12 foor backyard shed. I drag my furnace in and out to a tiny brick pad in front of the door, and pour outside. Dan P.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                    >
                    > When I next move, "large outhouse" will be a requirement for the new
                    > place, I think.

                    Go for it!

                    > What do others have for workshops?

                    I have a 10 by 12 foor backyard shed. I drag my furnace in and out to a
                    tiny brick pad in front of the door, and pour outside. Dan P.
                  • Brian Crocker
                    G Day Alaric, The other thing to take into account is some of the gasses flow like water and go to the lowest level, when you think it s not there it is
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 3, 2004
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                      G'Day Alaric,
                      The other thing to take into account is some of the gasses flow like water
                      and go to the lowest level, when you think it's not there it is sitting in a
                      puddle.

                      Croc.
                      ================================
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Alaric B Snell" <alaric@...>
                      To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 6:35 PM
                      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Re: soldering Iron element as foam cutter (long
                      reply!)


                      > Charles wrote:
                      >
                      > [propane piping]
                      > > Just a suggestion. I wouldnt do that. It sounds neat. And like a lot
                      > > of work. And overkill. And MORe not less dangerous. A lot more
                      > > joints and pipe to spring leaks etc.
                      >
                      > People manage to pipe natural gas around houses, though... I dunno, I
                      > just feel edgy having propane tanks standing around where there's molten
                      > metal :-)
                      >
                      > Plan B was to make/buy little wheeled stands for them so they're kept
                      > off the ground and are easy to wheel out to the car for taking to the
                      > refilling place.
                      >
                      > ABS
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > This list is for discussion of metal casting
                      > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share
                      photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
                      sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
                      > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                      > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                      >
                      > Files area and list services are at:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast For problems that cannot be
                      otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
                      > owly@...
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Charles
                      ... dunno, I ... molten ... Pretty much blew away my argument! Pipe away! ... kept ... the
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 4, 2004
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                        > People manage to pipe natural gas around houses, though... I
                        dunno, I
                        > just feel edgy having propane tanks standing around where there's
                        molten
                        > metal :-)

                        Pretty much blew away my argument! Pipe away!


                        >
                        > Plan B was to make/buy little wheeled stands for them so they're
                        kept
                        > off the ground and are easy to wheel out to the car for taking to
                        the
                        > refilling place.
                        >
                        > ABS
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