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Re: [hobbicast] Madd OT

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  • Clint D
    David You are so correct, I was not that involved myself in the OT posts today, but it just bothers me to no end, when all at once people just jump in trying
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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      David
      You are so correct, I was not that involved myself in the OT posts today,
      but it just bothers me to no end, when all at once people just jump in
      trying to jump down someone's throat, saying that this should not be, I am
      here for casting stuff, well to me, why is not this guy talking casting,
      they come in, sit and just read and then want to police what they read. If
      it is that bad to them then maybe they should be reading from yahoo.
      What really irks me is the name calling? just over conversation? The person
      that done that hardly ever contributes, and a lot of the folks he flamed are
      the biggest contributors. It always seems in most cases it is someone that
      does not get involved or someone new bitching and complaining because things
      do not suit them.
      Now today, there were posts going on that I could care less about, I did not
      get my panties in a wad, it only takes 1 second to hit that key and I done
      it several times today. some of the stuff was kind of interesting.
      like I said earlier in a post, I have been on Policed groups, and I drop
      off, in them once this stuff gets started then every time a member says one
      word they do not like it is straight to flaming, I have seen more posts
      jumping down someone's throat than what the topic could have ever generated.
      There is no way I will be a member of a group where everyone is so
      unfriendly and got their noses stuck up every bodies but worried more about
      what they may post than anything else.
      I am a very friendly person, and have friends of all kinds, but I get very
      hard to get along with when it comes to people that just have to bitch and
      moan about everything.
      I have heard the argument that 'well my email service is free and the posts
      fill my mail box up, well my saying is to these folks, fine, if your freebie
      mail service is that tight then you have no business receiving posts by mail
      anyway, they need to be going to the site to read,. There is no way that
      there is 10MB of posts here a day anyway, then I have heard the saying that
      I leave for a few days at a time and comeback to a full mailbox, I say the
      same to them, why receive email posts then. or they are to lazy to set it
      for no mail till they get back
      these people just will not admit, they just can not stand it to see others
      enjoying themselves any, for some reason this just kills them.
      Last, most of the OT posts today were from newer members anyway and did not
      even know of the Coffee lounge
      but no, some members would rather take the rude approach to new member than
      to let them no that.
      When it was briefly mentioned it was done in a way, a new member would have
      not known what the hell they were talking about. I am not going to treat
      people the way I seen them being treated today, the way some members acted
      today is 1000 times worse than someone talking about something that did not
      suit them. One more thing, I have seen the complainers enjoy some OT posts
      that they liked.
      Clint

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "David B" <Metal_Working@...>
      To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 1:30 AM
      Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Madd OT


      > Well, I'm new here to this group, but an 'Ol geezer (sp) when it comes to
      > news groups (20+ years and still truckin' along). But here is my pennies
      > worth...
      >
      > In an off topic thread there is usually an "OT" in the header. If you
      don't
      > want to read Off Topic threads, just delete them. I don't think too many
      > people here are going to the website to read the posts as it's very
      > irritating with all of the advertising Yahoo! forces on us there. Then
      > again, as in the current "computer thread" which caused Fred to flame
      > everyone, there is a lot of information to be obtained which "Could" save
      > everyone in this group a major headache and outpouring of cash to recover
      > their computer from a hacker or some teenager who is rebelling against
      > society for calling him a nerd! (wow, that's a long winded sentence)
      >
      > I don't know if everyone who is complaining read "Fred's" message (whoever
      > he may be, I'm a newbie remember!) but he said:
      >
      > >>>>>BYE BYE HOBBICAST. I'll drop in sometime when the large majority of
      > postings is DIRECTLY about foundry work.
      > Fred Feiertag<<<<<
      >
      > It pretty much says he'll be back, and I'm sure he's still downloading
      these
      > messages, and if not "His loss." He just doesn't want to participate in
      all
      > of the other threads that are taking place. It's known as "Flaming" and
      > occurrs in every news group known to the world both on the World Wide Web
      > and in other forms of media. I'm sure it's not the first time it's
      occurred
      > in this group based on the number of posts. "CC, Scobeyguy, Gassercoupe"
      > and probably a few others fell for it and took it to heart that "One guy"
      > out of 1500+ left the group (when in reality he never did).
      >
      > If you stop and combine all of the information available from 1500+ people
      > (minus one or two now) you have much more information than any one or two
      > people can provide, Ever!
      >
      > Lastly, name calling is exactly that. In my line of work I get called
      every
      > name in the book and then some (I'm a cop) and I'm still here today to
      talk
      > about it. The 'ol kids saying, "Sticks and stones...." Learn from it, it
      > works well in everyday life! You didn't know a 5 year old could teach and
      > adult something good, eh?!
      >
      > So don't jump to guns right away just because a couple of people want to
      > vent off some steam, more likely than not, regarding something else that
      is
      > bothering them but used us to do it.
      >
      > Well, maybe that was two pennies worth, eh?
      >
      > _____________________________________
      > David B - Metal_Working@...
      > I'm definitely a Newbie to Metal Working
      >
      >
      > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
      > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
      >
      > Files area and list services are at:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > hobbicast-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Clint D
      Micheal this is true to a point, first place, it is not common knowledge to every member about a coffee lounge, most of the OT posts today were started by
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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        Micheal
        this is true to a point, first place, it is not common knowledge to every
        member about a coffee lounge, most of the OT posts today were started by
        members that in no way knows any thing about one, and when it was mentioned
        they still would not have known what it meant they way that it was
        mentioned.
        were right back to 3-4 folks that want to run the group.
        the group is fine the way it is, it has always balanced out. Why change
        something if it is not broke.
        I have not seen a change since I have been here. Just all at once a couple
        of people is saying there needs policing, that is exactly what has to happen
        to do what you are saying, are you ready for a policed group?
        I think that you are, or you would not be jumping in here pushing something
        needs to be done
        Like I said earlier, why be a member here if the members are not liked and a
        person does not care to here from them. That's what has got me so confused.
        People sign up, this is a group with knowledge, but now lets shut up the
        very ones that built the group, so I do not have to here them unless I ring
        their bell and then just what I want to hear.
        This group can only go two ways, leave it not broke, or police the group and
        break it's back
        See, what most are not understanding, there are other casting groups,
        POLICED, why not go to them? Because they have no personality, lack of
        knowledge, etc. and why, they are policed. who sets the rules for policing?
        you? me? Ron?
        Clint

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Michael Taylor" <mtaylor@...>
        To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 1:42 AM
        Subject: RE: [hobbicast] Madd OT


        > I agree with everything you said. In my line of work (as a software
        > architect) there are only two rules: simplicity and consistency.
        >
        > It seems that we have a simple issue (or non-issue). The problem appears
        to
        > stem from the stated policy vs. practice (an inconsistency). Seems like
        you
        > either say: "Chill out and let it be - all posts are welcome at
        hobbicast."
        > (A perfectly reasonable position) OR you say, "The place to chill out and
        > talk about the meaning of life for a caster is the coffee loungh group."
        > Seems like if we don't use it, we should lose it. It's misleading to
        folks
        > to set an expectation when they sign up for the email flood that turns out
        > to be incorrect. I'd say pick a plan and go with it. I'd be happy either
        > way and I think having a consistent approach would be better for those who
        > get more worked up than I.
        >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: David B [mailto:Metal_Working@...]
        > > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:30 PM
        > > To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Madd OT
        > >
        > > Well, I'm new here to this group, but an 'Ol geezer (sp) when it comes
        to
        > > news groups (20+ years and still truckin' along). But here is my
        pennies
        > > worth...
        >
        >
        >
        > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
        > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
        >
        > Files area and list services are at:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > hobbicast-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Bob Hill
        Anyone counting the number of OT posts on OT posts, from people who don t like OT posts ? Bob ... From: Michael Taylor [mailto:mtaylor@emeraldcave.net] Sent:
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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          Anyone counting the number of OT posts on OT posts, from people who
          don't like OT posts<g>?

          Bob

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Michael Taylor [mailto:mtaylor@...]
          Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:29 PM
          To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [hobbicast] Group Statistics (and a call for focus?)


          Hello folks.

          I respect everyone on this group. I agree that communication is good.
          This message is directed to the group as a whole rather than a specific
          individual. My challenge is for the group to (re)define itself in such
          a way that it can remain cohesive and functional.

          I feel that we should look at some statistics to put things into
          perspective.

          I joined only 14 days ago - the oldest post I have is only 10/15/2002.
          I've found a LOT of interesting information buried within the posts.

          I have logged the following statistics:

          Total Days: 14
          Total Messages: 1,050
          Total Posts with "OT" in subject: 193 (18.38%)
          Total Members: 1,553

          If every hobbicast member was uninterested in OT posts then
          conservatively speaking we have generated about a quarter million
          unwanted emails (299,729).

          Being generous, let's say that only half the people here are really
          offended by this. We have still generated 150,000 pieces of offensive
          or unwanted mail.

          I would pose the question: How much unwanted mail is too much to bear?
          What is the common focus of this group?

          Personally I think that the focus that brings this group together is a
          common set of values and interests. Slightly OT posts that are related
          to metalworking tend to be overlooked somewhat. There is certainly a
          gray area of overlapping interests within the membership of a group this
          size. Recent posts have clearly gone beyond the limits in such a way as
          to upset some longstanding members, and the debate is disappointing to
          new members (such as myself) since bickering detracts from the value of
          this resource.

          I would like to ask the question:

          At a cost of the solidarity and integrity of this group (a valuable
          resource) - is it really worth fighting to be able to post off-topic
          subjects HERE - especially in light of the breakout forums setup for
          such side-conversation involving a smaller interest group?

          Can anyone say that the OT posts were worth losing helpful and
          knowledgeable members such as Fred?







          Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
          http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

          Files area and list services are at:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          hobbicast-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Dan Hill
          and so it continues, I have also unsubscribed, Dan. ... From: Clint D To: Sent: Friday, November 01,
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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            and so it continues, I have also unsubscribed, Dan.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Clint D" <driggars@...>
            To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 12:28 AM
            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Madd OT


            > David
            > You are so correct, I was not that involved myself in the OT posts today,
            > but it just bothers me to no end, when all at once people just jump in
            > trying to jump down someone's throat, saying that this should not be, I am
            > here for casting stuff, well to me, why is not this guy talking casting,
            > they come in, sit and just read and then want to police what they read. If
            > it is that bad to them then maybe they should be reading from yahoo.
            > What really irks me is the name calling? just over conversation? The
            person
            > that done that hardly ever contributes, and a lot of the folks he flamed
            are
            > the biggest contributors. It always seems in most cases it is someone that
            > does not get involved or someone new bitching and complaining because
            things
            > do not suit them.
            > Now today, there were posts going on that I could care less about, I did
            not
            > get my panties in a wad, it only takes 1 second to hit that key and I done
            > it several times today. some of the stuff was kind of interesting.
            > like I said earlier in a post, I have been on Policed groups, and I drop
            > off, in them once this stuff gets started then every time a member says
            one
            > word they do not like it is straight to flaming, I have seen more posts
            > jumping down someone's throat than what the topic could have ever
            generated.
            > There is no way I will be a member of a group where everyone is so
            > unfriendly and got their noses stuck up every bodies but worried more
            about
            > what they may post than anything else.
            > I am a very friendly person, and have friends of all kinds, but I get very
            > hard to get along with when it comes to people that just have to bitch and
            > moan about everything.
            > I have heard the argument that 'well my email service is free and the
            posts
            > fill my mail box up, well my saying is to these folks, fine, if your
            freebie
            > mail service is that tight then you have no business receiving posts by
            mail
            > anyway, they need to be going to the site to read,. There is no way that
            > there is 10MB of posts here a day anyway, then I have heard the saying
            that
            > I leave for a few days at a time and comeback to a full mailbox, I say the
            > same to them, why receive email posts then. or they are to lazy to set it
            > for no mail till they get back
            > these people just will not admit, they just can not stand it to see others
            > enjoying themselves any, for some reason this just kills them.
            > Last, most of the OT posts today were from newer members anyway and did
            not
            > even know of the Coffee lounge
            > but no, some members would rather take the rude approach to new member
            than
            > to let them no that.
            > When it was briefly mentioned it was done in a way, a new member would
            have
            > not known what the hell they were talking about. I am not going to treat
            > people the way I seen them being treated today, the way some members acted
            > today is 1000 times worse than someone talking about something that did
            not
            > suit them. One more thing, I have seen the complainers enjoy some OT posts
            > that they liked.
            > Clint
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "David B" <Metal_Working@...>
            > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 1:30 AM
            > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Madd OT
            >
            >
            > > Well, I'm new here to this group, but an 'Ol geezer (sp) when it comes
            to
            > > news groups (20+ years and still truckin' along). But here is my
            pennies
            > > worth...
            > >
            > > In an off topic thread there is usually an "OT" in the header. If you
            > don't
            > > want to read Off Topic threads, just delete them. I don't think too
            many
            > > people here are going to the website to read the posts as it's very
            > > irritating with all of the advertising Yahoo! forces on us there. Then
            > > again, as in the current "computer thread" which caused Fred to flame
            > > everyone, there is a lot of information to be obtained which "Could"
            save
            > > everyone in this group a major headache and outpouring of cash to
            recover
            > > their computer from a hacker or some teenager who is rebelling against
            > > society for calling him a nerd! (wow, that's a long winded sentence)
            > >
            > > I don't know if everyone who is complaining read "Fred's" message
            (whoever
            > > he may be, I'm a newbie remember!) but he said:
            > >
            > > >>>>>BYE BYE HOBBICAST. I'll drop in sometime when the large majority of
            > > postings is DIRECTLY about foundry work.
            > > Fred Feiertag<<<<<
            > >
            > > It pretty much says he'll be back, and I'm sure he's still downloading
            > these
            > > messages, and if not "His loss." He just doesn't want to participate in
            > all
            > > of the other threads that are taking place. It's known as "Flaming" and
            > > occurrs in every news group known to the world both on the World Wide
            Web
            > > and in other forms of media. I'm sure it's not the first time it's
            > occurred
            > > in this group based on the number of posts. "CC, Scobeyguy,
            Gassercoupe"
            > > and probably a few others fell for it and took it to heart that "One
            guy"
            > > out of 1500+ left the group (when in reality he never did).
            > >
            > > If you stop and combine all of the information available from 1500+
            people
            > > (minus one or two now) you have much more information than any one or
            two
            > > people can provide, Ever!
            > >
            > > Lastly, name calling is exactly that. In my line of work I get called
            > every
            > > name in the book and then some (I'm a cop) and I'm still here today to
            > talk
            > > about it. The 'ol kids saying, "Sticks and stones...." Learn from it,
            it
            > > works well in everyday life! You didn't know a 5 year old could teach
            and
            > > adult something good, eh?!
            > >
            > > So don't jump to guns right away just because a couple of people want to
            > > vent off some steam, more likely than not, regarding something else that
            > is
            > > bothering them but used us to do it.
            > >
            > > Well, maybe that was two pennies worth, eh?
            > >
            > > _____________________________________
            > > David B - Metal_Working@...
            > > I'm definitely a Newbie to Metal Working
            > >
            > >
            > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
            > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
            > >
            > > Files area and list services are at:
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > hobbicast-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
            > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
            >
            > Files area and list services are at:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > hobbicast-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
          • john grant
            ... I do not think that this is the correct way of looking at it. I received 14 OT posts, not 21,000. And is this post OT? It is not about casting. John Grant
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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              Michael Taylor wrote:

              > I forgot to mention that we are currently averaging 14 OT tagged posts per
              > day (or 21,000 unwanted messages).

              I do not think that this is the correct way of looking at it.

              I received 14 OT posts, not 21,000.

              And is this post OT? It is not about casting.

              John Grant
            • John
              More OT stuff: There may be 1.5k members listed but I would guess that at most there will be 10-20% of these actually taking part in the group. Many people
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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                More OT stuff:

                There may be 1.5k members listed but I would guess that at most there will
                be 10-20% of these actually taking part in the group. Many people subscribe
                and do not realise the number of emails that come through. They change their
                address, forget their account's login details, drop an email account, don't
                actually receive the messages etc. I am a member of roughly twice the number
                of groups I take part in just so I can get access to the files and photos
                sections. A huge number of a listed members will never see a single post. If
                1500 people were on here actively watching and posting there'd be hundreds
                of posts per day. Even if 50% of the members were 'lurking'.

                All the best,
                John Heritage

                *******************************************
                Email: JohnHe-UK@...
                DSL Account: Heritage@... (Currently offline)

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hobbicast_coffee_lounge
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cadcamuk/
              • Stan Philippon
                Here is a real wild thought.... Everyone agree to put OT in the subject line of of topic strings. Then anyone who dislikes recieving off topic messages just
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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                  Here is a real wild thought....
                  Everyone agree to put "OT" in the subject line of of topic strings. Then
                  anyone who dislikes recieving off topic messages just has to go into their
                  browser Tools option and formulate a rule to delete anything with "OT" in
                  the subject line.Problem solved and we can all go back to enjoying this
                  group.
                  ------Stan
                • Michael Taylor
                  99%
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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                    99% <grin>

                    > Anyone counting the number of OT posts on OT posts, from people who
                    > don't like OT posts<g>?
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.