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Re: [hobbicast] Casting steel

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  • mike
    Mike Martin mdmart@netzero.net ... From: Stephen Lovely To: Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 10:51 AM Subject: RE:
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 4, 2000
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      Mike Martin mdmart@...
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Stephen Lovely" <scl@...>
      To: <hobbicast@egroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 10:51 AM
      Subject: RE: [hobbicast] Casting steel


      This reminds me of something that I got from CW Ammen a couple
      of years ago. I subscribed to his "Home Foundrymen's Association"
      and just before he stopped printing it and sent everyone a refund
      he advertised a booklet "The Metalothermic Reactor" (or something
      similar for a title.) Having a serious book habit I instantly sent
      away for it. It was basically a refractory lined metal funnel that you
      filled with a thermite mix. You lit it off and molten steel comes out
      the bottom. There was a company listed in it from New Jersey ( I think
      it was New Jersey) that sold thermite for casting purposes. They had
      a couple of different mixes that you could buy to get different results.
      At the very least there was a mix to give cast iron and one for a mild
      steel. Cast iron it doable on a home basis with a small cupola or
      a crucible furnace, but the steel seems to me to be pretty attractive
      for a small time home operation because the casting you get would
      have a known composition.

      In general, if you need steel for an application you probably need
      some specific properties and from everything I've read a home
      "pot metal" approach to steel casting is going to give widely
      varying results in terms of casting properties.

      Stephen C. Lovely
      Milford, Mass




      I have an old Audel's Welders Guide that shows a picture of thermite being
      used to weld streetcar tracks. The thermite mixture was put into a
      sheet-iron crucible lined with "magnesia tar", whatever that is, an ignition
      powder added & the mix was ignited. The book says the reaction takes about
      30 seconds and produces liquid steel at about twice the temperature of
      ordinary molten steel. The thermite formula was 1 lb. aluminum powder to 3
      lbs. iron oxide plus other additives, depending on the exact use. The
      ignition powder was said to be composed largely of barium peroxide. Sounds
      like it could be used for small castings where surface finish is not
      critical, if the ingredients (or the pre-mixed thermite) is available at a
      reasonable cost.
      Mike.


      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: mSperry [SMTP:mac@...]
      > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 11:54 PM
      > To: hobbicast@egroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Casting steel
      >
      > Propane won't do it. Either carbon arc or induction heating. One other
      > possibility is an outside possiblity, ie using Thermite/mac
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Michael Boettcher <meboettc@...>
      > To: hobbicast@egroups.com <hobbicast@egroups.com>
      > Date: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 7:09 AM
      > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Casting steel
      >
      >
      > >What temp do you cast the steel at? I'm building the Gingery propane
      > >crucible furnace. Since I'm using 3000 deg castable refractory, I was
      > >hoping to be able to cast steel. If not, then I guess I have a reason to
      > >play around with making a vacuum induction furnace.
      > >
      > >
      > >Michael E. Boettcher
      > >US Dairy Forage Research Center
      > >Mechanical Engineer
      > >(608) 264-5355
      > >meboettc@...
      > >
      > >
      >

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    • Michael Boettcher
      What temp do you cast the steel at? I m building the Gingery propane crucible furnace. Since I m using 3000 deg castable refractory, I was hoping to be able
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 5, 2000
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        What temp do you cast the steel at? I'm building the Gingery propane
        crucible furnace. Since I'm using 3000 deg castable refractory, I was
        hoping to be able to cast steel. If not, then I guess I have a reason to
        play around with making a vacuum induction furnace.


        Michael E. Boettcher
        US Dairy Forage Research Center
        Mechanical Engineer
        (608) 264-5355
        meboettc@...
      • Ejay Hire
        It s not a question of will your furnace handle the temperature, its more of a problem with impurities. The difference between steel and Cast Iron is the
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 5, 2000
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          It's not a question of will your furnace handle the temperature, its more of
          a problem with impurities. The difference between steel and Cast Iron is
          the amount of Carbon, phosphorus, and other stuff in the metal. It would be
          possible to melt Cast Iron in your gingery furnace, and then pour it into a
          Bessemer machine, and when the sparks stop flying, you could pour steel.
          But the bessemer machine is going to get out almost all of the impurities,
          including some of the ones you want in the melt. This is where steel
          becomes science. You have very pure hot molten metal. How many ???'s do
          you add to it to make it have the properties you want? Hardness? Ductility?
          Machinability? Corrosion Resistance? Heat Treatabitliy? Granularity?

          IIRC, High carbon steel was invented after several experiments that started
          when a guy noticed the drastically different properties of a melt of steel
          that one chap dropped his cheese sandwich.


          ----Original Message Follows----
          From: Michael Boettcher <meboettc@...>
          Reply-To: hobbicast@egroups.com
          To: hobbicast@egroups.com
          Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Casting steel
          Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 09:13:14 -0500

          What temp do you cast the steel at? I'm building the Gingery propane
          crucible furnace. Since I'm using 3000 deg castable refractory, I was
          hoping to be able to cast steel. If not, then I guess I have a reason to
          play around with making a vacuum induction furnace.


          Michael E. Boettcher
          US Dairy Forage Research Center
          Mechanical Engineer
          (608) 264-5355
          meboettc@...


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        • hfd220@aol.com
          Michael, I still work a full time job as metallurgist, at work we pour steel at 3000 degrees for thin castings, and as low as 2875 for large thick castings.
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 5, 2000
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            Michael, I still work a full time job as metallurgist, at work we pour steel
            at 3000 degrees for thin castings, and as low as 2875 for large thick
            castings. You will not get these temps with a gas crucible furnace. <A
            HREF="http://members.aol.com/hfd220/index.html">
            </A>
            Charles Logan

            <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/hfd220/index.html">A & B Castings, Inc.</A>
            http://members.aol.com/hfd220/index.html
          • mSperry
            Propane won t do it. Either carbon arc or induction heating. One other possibility is an outside possiblity, ie using Thermite/mac ... From: Michael Boettcher
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 5, 2000
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              Propane won't do it. Either carbon arc or induction heating. One other
              possibility is an outside possiblity, ie using Thermite/mac

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Michael Boettcher <meboettc@...>
              To: hobbicast@egroups.com <hobbicast@egroups.com>
              Date: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 7:09 AM
              Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Casting steel


              >What temp do you cast the steel at? I'm building the Gingery propane
              >crucible furnace. Since I'm using 3000 deg castable refractory, I was
              >hoping to be able to cast steel. If not, then I guess I have a reason to
              >play around with making a vacuum induction furnace.
              >
              >
              >Michael E. Boettcher
              >US Dairy Forage Research Center
              >Mechanical Engineer
              >(608) 264-5355
              >meboettc@...
              >
              >
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              >
              >
            • Stephen Lovely
              This reminds me of something that I got from CW Ammen a couple of years ago. I subscribed to his Home Foundrymen s Association and just before he stopped
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 6, 2000
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                This reminds me of something that I got from CW Ammen a couple
                of years ago. I subscribed to his "Home Foundrymen's Association"
                and just before he stopped printing it and sent everyone a refund
                he advertised a booklet "The Metalothermic Reactor" (or something
                similar for a title.) Having a serious book habit I instantly sent
                away for it. It was basically a refractory lined metal funnel that you
                filled with a thermite mix. You lit it off and molten steel comes out
                the bottom. There was a company listed in it from New Jersey ( I think
                it was New Jersey) that sold thermite for casting purposes. They had
                a couple of different mixes that you could buy to get different results.
                At the very least there was a mix to give cast iron and one for a mild
                steel. Cast iron it doable on a home basis with a small cupola or
                a crucible furnace, but the steel seems to me to be pretty attractive
                for a small time home operation because the casting you get would
                have a known composition.

                In general, if you need steel for an application you probably need
                some specific properties and from everything I've read a home
                "pot metal" approach to steel casting is going to give widely
                varying results in terms of casting properties.

                Stephen C. Lovely
                Milford, Mass

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: mSperry [SMTP:mac@...]
                > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 11:54 PM
                > To: hobbicast@egroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Casting steel
                >
                > Propane won't do it. Either carbon arc or induction heating. One other
                > possibility is an outside possiblity, ie using Thermite/mac
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Michael Boettcher <meboettc@...>
                > To: hobbicast@egroups.com <hobbicast@egroups.com>
                > Date: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 7:09 AM
                > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Casting steel
                >
                >
                > >What temp do you cast the steel at? I'm building the Gingery propane
                > >crucible furnace. Since I'm using 3000 deg castable refractory, I was
                > >hoping to be able to cast steel. If not, then I guess I have a reason to
                > >play around with making a vacuum induction furnace.
                > >
                > >
                > >Michael E. Boettcher
                > >US Dairy Forage Research Center
                > >Mechanical Engineer
                > >(608) 264-5355
                > >meboettc@...
                > >
                > >
                >
              • James Lane
                I am a antique restorer and I joined the group to learn about brass and bronze casting. In my trade almost all of the furniture hardware is made of brass.
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 6, 2000
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                  I am a antique restorer and I joined the group to
                  learn about brass and bronze casting. In my trade
                  almost all of the furniture hardware is made of brass.
                  About half the furniture has something missing. Usually
                  Presently I send the work out of state to a metal caster.
                  But this is getting to be a big hassle, and also 5 to
                  6 weeks turn around.

                  My question is:

                  I have to make a copy of a small drawer pull (3/4 inch wide by 9/16 inch
                  deep). Is there any way to make a quick copy of this pull? It is too small
                  to fire up a big furnace. Is there a very small furnace that I can make,
                  or should I just use my oxi-aceti torch and melt brass right in a mold?
                  What would make the best mold, sand, clay?

                  James Lane
                  http://www.AntiqueRestorers.com
                • beone@twave.net
                  ... inch ... too small ... make, ... mold? ... for this type of job your best bet is one of the cup type of crucibels that are used for jewelry. use an OA
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 7, 2000
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                    --- In hobbicast@egroups.com, "James Lane" <antiquef@b...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I am a antique restorer and I joined the group to
                    > learn about brass and bronze casting. In my trade
                    > almost all of the furniture hardware is made of brass.
                    > About half the furniture has something missing. Usually
                    > Presently I send the work out of state to a metal caster.
                    > But this is getting to be a big hassle, and also 5 to
                    > 6 weeks turn around.
                    >
                    > My question is:
                    >
                    > I have to make a copy of a small drawer pull (3/4 inch wide by 9/16
                    inch
                    > deep). Is there any way to make a quick copy of this pull? It is
                    too small
                    > to fire up a big furnace. Is there a very small furnace that I can
                    make,
                    > or should I just use my oxi-aceti torch and melt brass right in a
                    mold?
                    > What would make the best mold, sand, clay?
                    >
                    > James Lane
                    > http://www.AntiqueRestorers.com
                    for this type of job your best bet is one of the cup type of
                    crucibels that are used for jewelry. use an OA torch, probably the
                    cutting torch for heat or a rosebud tip, to melt the brass and then
                    pour into the mold. look up a company called Rio Grand, they are a
                    big jewelry supply outfit, get thier catalog and look thru it. they
                    also sell spin casters, and a casting set with what i think is
                    petrobond and a flask. they also sell various brass and other metals
                    in small pieces. thier stuff is expensive but available in small
                    quantities and they are good people to deal with.
                    Dave
                  • Barnes, James MVS
                    Hi, does anyone have the email address for the guy in Oregon who was selling quorn castings? I wanted to get in touch with him about Rivett lathes. Thanks Jim
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 18, 2002
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                      Hi,
                      does anyone have the email address for the guy in Oregon who was selling
                      quorn castings? I wanted to get in touch with him about Rivett lathes.

                      Thanks
                      Jim



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Ray Brandes
                      James, PMJI, but what are quorn castings? -Ray B.
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 19, 2002
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                        James,
                        PMJI, but what are 'quorn' castings?
                        -Ray B.

                        "Barnes, James MVS" wrote:

                        > Hi,
                        > does anyone have the email address for the guy in Oregon who was selling
                        > quorn castings? I wanted to get in touch with him about Rivett lathes.
                        >
                        > Thanks
                        > Jim
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
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                      • chipmaker36043
                        I don t know if its the guys name or not, but Quorn castings are simp;ly castings this person makes that you buy and machine down to create a machine tool. One
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 19, 2002
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                          I don't know if its the guys name or not, but Quorn castings are
                          simp;ly castings this person makes that you buy and machine down to
                          create a machine tool. One of the more popular items they make
                          castings for is a tool and cutter type grinder. IIRC a fellow by the
                          name of Guy Lautard has the source o his website:
                          http://lautard.com/ I was interested in the tool and cutter grinder
                          myself until a found a source to sharpen my endmills and cutters
                          about 17 miles down the road, but I may still build one some day.
                          --- In hobbicast@y..., Ray Brandes <rvb@r...> wrote:
                          > James,
                          > PMJI, but what are 'quorn' castings?
                          > -Ray B.
                          >
                          > "Barnes, James MVS" wrote:
                          >
                          > > Hi,
                          > > does anyone have the email address for the guy in Oregon who was
                          selling
                          > > quorn castings? I wanted to get in touch with him about Rivett
                          lathes.
                          > >
                          > > Thanks
                          > > Jim
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                          > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                          > >
                          > > Files area and list services are at:
                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                          > >
                          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > hobbicast-unsubscribe@e...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • Ron Thompson
                          I don t see an answer to this yet, so I ll jump in. Quorn castings are used to make a unique and very versatile tool and cutter grinder. It looks like a tool
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 19, 2002
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                            I don't see an answer to this yet, so I'll jump in.
                            Quorn castings are used to make a unique and very versatile tool and cutter grinder. It looks like a tool post grinder that is stand alone and has attachments.
                            I did a search on Google for Quorn grinder and came up with a lot of hits and this one is from a guy on rec.crafts.metalworking that I know knows his stuff.
                            http://www.nmpproducts.com/quornpho.htm

                            The design is English IIRC and was featured in a series of magazine articles some time ago. The castings are iron and getting rare. I think it may do just as well if it were cast in bronze or maybe even aluminum. ZA-12 comes to mind as a cheap, strong alternative to those who can't cast iron.

                            Ron Thompson
                            48 year old machine shop student
                            On the Beautiful Mississippi Gulf Coast
                            USA

                            http://www.plansandprojects.com


                            The following added for automatic email harvesters!
                            abuse@... abuse@... abuse@... abuse@...

                            ******************
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Ray Brandes
                            To: hobbicast@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 5:21 AM
                            Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Question


                            James,
                            PMJI, but what are 'quorn' castings?
                            -Ray B.

                            "Barnes, James MVS" wrote:

                            > Hi,
                            > does anyone have the email address for the guy in Oregon who was selling
                            > quorn castings? I wanted to get in touch with him about Rivett lathes.
                            >
                            > Thanks
                            > Jim
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                            > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
                            >
                            > Files area and list services are at:
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > hobbicast-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                            Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
                            http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

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