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casting emblems

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  • Netguy
    Robert G - Your casting process sounds interesting. To explain my thoughts a bit more - I want to offer a premium to owners of luxury cars. You have probably
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 30, 2000
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      Robert G -

      Your casting process sounds interesting. To explain my thoughts a bit more - I want to offer a "premium" to owners of luxury cars. You have probably noticed that many of them have gold plated emblems. I am interested to know if I can (economically) produce a casting in the same style/font/size as the factory emblem. Perhaps the Mercedes owner might want the 300E on one side of the trunk and Robert's Benz on the other side.

      The question - Is it possible to make a mold, cast the part, finish and plate it for a price that will sell out there in the market?

      I think Silver will be too expensive to cast @ $5 per 31g, but yes it plates very nicely! What can you suggest for low melting point alloys that readily accept plating?

      How clean/smooth will the casting be as it leaves the mold?

      What is the best/easiest casting machine? Assume I am going to run several pcs at once to lower prep costs.

      Thanks!

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Jim C:

      All right! A caster that understands what hydrogen embrittlement means to the plater!

      I assume that you are talking about a plaster material for the mold prep. OK, where can I get info about Kerr and their products?

      I can work with Zinc - OK to plate if it is clean, although I worry about the mold release. Are they silicone cased?

      Thanks!

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jim Clary
      Tom, The plaster is the mold. Get the Kerr Satin cast from Kerr Casting Specialties (Romulus, MI & Orange, CA), if you like to pay full price. Otherwise try
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 30, 2000
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        Tom,

        The "plaster" is the mold. Get the Kerr Satin cast from Kerr Casting
        Specialties (Romulus, MI & Orange, CA), if you like to pay full price.
        Otherwise try A & A Jewelry Tools & Supplies 319 W. 6th Los Angeles, CA 213
        627-8004 whose prices are substantially lower on everything. Satin cast is
        not "plaster" as one would normally think of plaster but SiO2. You can cast
        any metal in this stuff so long as the pouring temperature is not over
        2000F. For more info see http://www.kerrcasting.com/ The only mold release
        needed, if any because your patterns probably have lots of draft (I'm
        guessing here), would be to lightly spray the pattern with Pam which will go
        away during the curing process of the mold. Silicone is often used in making
        investment castings but there are other mold releases that do not have
        silicone in them. It is difficult to get the silicone off and it mostly
        survives the high temperatures of casting. Hydrogen causes other problems
        with liquid metals. Some metals, especially aluminum, and to a lesser degree
        in other metals, take in nascent hydrogen molecules as the metal temperature
        rises. The higher the temp, the more hydrogen is "dissolved" in the metal.
        When the metal freezes it becomes a super-saturated solution of hydrogen,
        which then begins to precipitate out. The nascent hydrogen molecules rapidly
        combine to form H2 which then follows all the physical laws governing gases.
        What I'm saying is that you'll get tiny bubbles throughout your casting.
        When polished you may see tiny specs where the polishing compound filled the
        little holes. When plated, your piece will have thousands of "freckles", one
        for each tiny bubble. Not a very pretty sight when you had in mind a mirror
        like finish. That said, zinc alloys such as ZA-12 won't take in H as long as
        you keep the metal temperature under 1000F which is one of the reasons I
        suggested it. This stuff pours like water and reproduces fine detail
        extremely well. Watch the melt temp like a hawk though. Zinc temp shoots up
        rapidly as soon as it melts so it is easy to over heat.

        Jim Clary


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Netguy" <netguy@...>
        To: "Hobbicast" <hobbicast@egroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:21 PM
        Subject: [hobbicast] casting emblems


        > Robert G -
        >
        > Your casting process sounds interesting. To explain my thoughts a bit
        more - I want to offer a "premium" to owners of luxury cars. You have
        probably noticed that many of them have gold plated emblems. I am interested
        to know if I can (economically) produce a casting in the same
        style/font/size as the factory emblem. Perhaps the Mercedes owner might want
        the 300E on one side of the trunk and Robert's Benz on the other side.
        >
        > The question - Is it possible to make a mold, cast the part, finish and
        plate it for a price that will sell out there in the market?
        >
        > I think Silver will be too expensive to cast @ $5 per 31g, but yes it
        plates very nicely! What can you suggest for low melting point alloys that
        readily accept plating?
        >
        > How clean/smooth will the casting be as it leaves the mold?
        >
        > What is the best/easiest casting machine? Assume I am going to run several
        pcs at once to lower prep costs.
        >
        > Thanks!
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ------
        >
        > Jim C:
        >
        > All right! A caster that understands what hydrogen embrittlement means to
        the plater!
        >
        > I assume that you are talking about a plaster material for the mold prep.
        OK, where can I get info about Kerr and their products?
        >
        > I can work with Zinc - OK to plate if it is clean, although I worry about
        the mold release. Are they silicone cased?
        >
        > Thanks!
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
        > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
        >
        > The Home Foundrymen's Association website may be found here:
        http://members.xoom.com/HWilkinson/index.htm
        > It includes member project pages & links
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > hobbicast-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Robert Grauman
        Hello Tom, Sounds like an admirable and potentially profitable enterprise, although I doubt that you can sell me one for my toy truck. :-) ... plate it Yes,
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
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          Hello Tom,

          Sounds like an admirable and potentially profitable enterprise, although I
          doubt that you can sell me one for my toy truck. :-)

          > The question - Is it possible to make a mold, cast the part, finish and
          plate it

          Yes, that would be a straightforward process.

          > for a price that will sell out there in the market?

          Ah, that's the big question, isn't it? And I'm certainly not in a position
          to answer it for you.

          > I think Silver will be too expensive to cast @ $5 per
          >31g, but yes it plates very nicely! What can you suggest
          >for low melting point alloys that readily accept plating?

          Any number of metals can be investment cast, including stainless steels and
          platinum. It's a matter of choosing the correct investment. I have cast
          zinc, tin, brass, bronze, silver and copper in Kerr Satincast (the same
          investment that Jim suggested for his process). I don't have my literature
          in front of me, but I seem to remember that it was not recommended that
          aluminum be cast in Satincast, but I may be wrong. I like to work sterling
          silver, so I use it most often for small castings, but in your case, I would
          select a metal that would plate well (you're the expert here), and try that.

          > How clean/smooth will the casting be as it leaves the mold?

          If the proper procedure is followed, most of the Satincast crumbles away
          from the casting. It may require a little scrubbing (I use an old tooth
          brush) to remove the investment from some areas of the casting. The lost
          wax process will reproduce very fine detail. The casting will faithfully
          reproduce any flaws in the wax, including finger prints. Tumblers would be
          used in a commercial operation, but I use a polishing wheel charged with
          rouge to bring the item to a bright polish. It just takes a few minutes.

          > What is the best/easiest casting machine? Assume I am
          >going to run several pcs at once to lower prep costs.

          I don't have experience in a commercial production setting. I use a
          centrifugal caster. Several items can be sprued together in a tree in one
          flask. The maximum flask size for my machine is 4" X 6". You can see the
          machine I use at:
          http://www.kerrcasting.com/Product/English/listprod.htm
          and click on the 6" Centrifico Casting Machine. You can also find a lot of
          good information about investment casting at this site.

          I have also used a small vacuum caster, and it allowed the use of slightly
          larger flasks. You can find information about them at the Kerr site as
          well. In my opinion, there is little to choose between the two machines.
          They both work well.

          Another possibility is a spincaster. This machine casts low temperature
          alloys (such as pewter) into high temperature silicone rubbers. This would
          be used in a production environment. As search of the web for "spincaster"
          should cough up a bunch of hits.

          Hope this helps. Jim's suggestions are as valid (probably more so) as mine.
          I'm just presenting some alternatives here.

          Robert Grauman in Sunny Alberta
        • Tom Haltmeyer
          Jim? Could you or anyone tell me where to purchace za-12? Any special fluxes needed? Is it pricey? Thanks Tom H. ... price. ... Angeles, CA 213 ... cast is ...
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
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            Jim?

            Could you or anyone tell me where to purchace za-12? Any special
            fluxes needed? Is it pricey?
            Thanks
            Tom H.
            > Tom,
            >
            > The "plaster" is the mold. Get the Kerr Satin cast from Kerr Casting
            > Specialties (Romulus, MI & Orange, CA), if you like to pay full
            price.
            > Otherwise try A & A Jewelry Tools & Supplies 319 W. 6th Los
            Angeles, CA 213
            > 627-8004 whose prices are substantially lower on everything. Satin
            cast is
            > not "plaster" as one would normally think of plaster but SiO2. You
            can cast
            > any metal in this stuff so long as the pouring temperature is not
            over
            > 2000F. For more info see http://www.kerrcasting.com/ The only mold
            release
            > needed, if any because your patterns probably have lots of draft
            (I'm
            > guessing here), would be to lightly spray the pattern with Pam
            which will go
            > away during the curing process of the mold. Silicone is often used
            in making
            > investment castings but there are other mold releases that do not
            have
            > silicone in them. It is difficult to get the silicone off and it
            mostly
            > survives the high temperatures of casting. Hydrogen causes other
            problems
            > with liquid metals. Some metals, especially aluminum, and to a
            lesser degree
            > in other metals, take in nascent hydrogen molecules as the metal
            temperature
            > rises. The higher the temp, the more hydrogen is "dissolved" in the
            metal.
            > When the metal freezes it becomes a super-saturated solution of
            hydrogen,
            > which then begins to precipitate out. The nascent hydrogen
            molecules rapidly
            > combine to form H2 which then follows all the physical laws
            governing gases.
            > What I'm saying is that you'll get tiny bubbles throughout your
            casting.
            > When polished you may see tiny specs where the polishing compound
            filled the
            > little holes. When plated, your piece will have thousands of
            "freckles", one
            > for each tiny bubble. Not a very pretty sight when you had in mind
            a mirror
            > like finish. That said, zinc alloys such as ZA-12 won't take in H
            as long as
            > you keep the metal temperature under 1000F which is one of the
            reasons I
            > suggested it. This stuff pours like water and reproduces fine detail
            > extremely well. Watch the melt temp like a hawk though. Zinc temp
            shoots up
            > rapidly as soon as it melts so it is easy to over heat.
            >
            > Jim Clary
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Netguy" <netguy@c...>
            > To: "Hobbicast" <hobbicast@egroups.com>
            > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:21 PM
            > Subject: [hobbicast] casting emblems
            >
            >
            > > Robert G -
            > >
            > > Your casting process sounds interesting. To explain my thoughts a
            bit
            > more - I want to offer a "premium" to owners of luxury cars. You
            have
            > probably noticed that many of them have gold plated emblems. I am
            interested
            > to know if I can (economically) produce a casting in the same
            > style/font/size as the factory emblem. Perhaps the Mercedes owner
            might want
            > the 300E on one side of the trunk and Robert's Benz on the other
            side.
            > >
            > > The question - Is it possible to make a mold, cast the part,
            finish and
            > plate it for a price that will sell out there in the market?
            > >
            > > I think Silver will be too expensive to cast @ $5 per 31g, but
            yes it
            > plates very nicely! What can you suggest for low melting point
            alloys that
            > readily accept plating?
            > >
            > > How clean/smooth will the casting be as it leaves the mold?
            > >
            > > What is the best/easiest casting machine? Assume I am going to
            run several
            > pcs at once to lower prep costs.
            > >
            > > Thanks!
            > >
            > >
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            ----
            > ------
            > >
            > > Jim C:
            > >
            > > All right! A caster that understands what hydrogen embrittlement
            means to
            > the plater!
            > >
            > > I assume that you are talking about a plaster material for the
            mold prep.
            > OK, where can I get info about Kerr and their products?
            > >
            > > I can work with Zinc - OK to plate if it is clean, although I
            worry about
            > the mold release. Are they silicone cased?
            > >
            > > Thanks!
            > >
            > >
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            ----
            > ------
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
            > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
            > >
            > > The Home Foundrymen's Association website may be found here:
            > http://members.xoom.com/HWilkinson/index.htm
            > > It includes member project pages & links
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > hobbicast-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
          • Jim Clary
            Tom, Buying casting alloys is always difficult for the small foundry. Metal suppliers don t want to mess with sales of less that 2000 pounds (one ton) and that
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
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              Tom,

              Buying casting alloys is always difficult for the small foundry. Metal
              suppliers don't want to mess with sales of less that 2000 pounds (one ton)
              and that is usually too much for us. Your best bet, I think, would be to
              find a local foundry in your yellow pages Business to Business book and see
              if they will be willing to sell you an ingot or more at a time. Your best
              bet for the zinc alloys is the die casters. If you can talk to the owner
              directly and explain what you're doing you'll probably find an empathetic
              ear. These guys all started small too and they love to talk castings. If you
              don't have any luck there, try to find some other guys like yourself that
              will split a bundle with you, even if you have to ship the ingots to them
              across country. Trying to buy any specific alloy by buying scrap is a chancy
              deal, especially with the zinc and copper alloys.

              Jim Clary

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Tom Haltmeyer" <oldies1955@...>
              To: <hobbicast@egroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 9:20 AM
              Subject: [hobbicast] Re: casting emblems/need ZA-12


              > Jim?
              >
              > Could you or anyone tell me where to purchace za-12? Any special
              > fluxes needed? Is it pricey?
              > Thanks
              > Tom H.
              > > Tom,
              > >
              > > The "plaster" is the mold. Get the Kerr Satin cast from Kerr Casting
              > > Specialties (Romulus, MI & Orange, CA), if you like to pay full
              > price.
              > > Otherwise try A & A Jewelry Tools & Supplies 319 W. 6th Los
              > Angeles, CA 213
              > > 627-8004 whose prices are substantially lower on everything. Satin
              > cast is
              > > not "plaster" as one would normally think of plaster but SiO2. You
              > can cast
              > > any metal in this stuff so long as the pouring temperature is not
              > over
              > > 2000F. For more info see http://www.kerrcasting.com/ The only mold
              > release
              > > needed, if any because your patterns probably have lots of draft
              > (I'm
              > > guessing here), would be to lightly spray the pattern with Pam
              > which will go
              > > away during the curing process of the mold. Silicone is often used
              > in making
              > > investment castings but there are other mold releases that do not
              > have
              > > silicone in them. It is difficult to get the silicone off and it
              > mostly
              > > survives the high temperatures of casting. Hydrogen causes other
              > problems
              > > with liquid metals. Some metals, especially aluminum, and to a
              > lesser degree
              > > in other metals, take in nascent hydrogen molecules as the metal
              > temperature
              > > rises. The higher the temp, the more hydrogen is "dissolved" in the
              > metal.
              > > When the metal freezes it becomes a super-saturated solution of
              > hydrogen,
              > > which then begins to precipitate out. The nascent hydrogen
              > molecules rapidly
              > > combine to form H2 which then follows all the physical laws
              > governing gases.
              > > What I'm saying is that you'll get tiny bubbles throughout your
              > casting.
              > > When polished you may see tiny specs where the polishing compound
              > filled the
              > > little holes. When plated, your piece will have thousands of
              > "freckles", one
              > > for each tiny bubble. Not a very pretty sight when you had in mind
              > a mirror
              > > like finish. That said, zinc alloys such as ZA-12 won't take in H
              > as long as
              > > you keep the metal temperature under 1000F which is one of the
              > reasons I
              > > suggested it. This stuff pours like water and reproduces fine detail
              > > extremely well. Watch the melt temp like a hawk though. Zinc temp
              > shoots up
              > > rapidly as soon as it melts so it is easy to over heat.
              > >
              > > Jim Clary
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "Netguy" <netguy@c...>
              > > To: "Hobbicast" <hobbicast@egroups.com>
              > > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:21 PM
              > > Subject: [hobbicast] casting emblems
              > >
              > >
              > > > Robert G -
              > > >
              > > > Your casting process sounds interesting. To explain my thoughts a
              > bit
              > > more - I want to offer a "premium" to owners of luxury cars. You
              > have
              > > probably noticed that many of them have gold plated emblems. I am
              > interested
              > > to know if I can (economically) produce a casting in the same
              > > style/font/size as the factory emblem. Perhaps the Mercedes owner
              > might want
              > > the 300E on one side of the trunk and Robert's Benz on the other
              > side.
              > > >
              > > > The question - Is it possible to make a mold, cast the part,
              > finish and
              > > plate it for a price that will sell out there in the market?
              > > >
              > > > I think Silver will be too expensive to cast @ $5 per 31g, but
              > yes it
              > > plates very nicely! What can you suggest for low melting point
              > alloys that
              > > readily accept plating?
              > > >
              > > > How clean/smooth will the casting be as it leaves the mold?
              > > >
              > > > What is the best/easiest casting machine? Assume I am going to
              > run several
              > > pcs at once to lower prep costs.
              > > >
              > > > Thanks!
              > > >
              > > >
              > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              > ----
              > > ------
              > > >
              > > > Jim C:
              > > >
              > > > All right! A caster that understands what hydrogen embrittlement
              > means to
              > > the plater!
              > > >
              > > > I assume that you are talking about a plaster material for the
              > mold prep.
              > > OK, where can I get info about Kerr and their products?
              > > >
              > > > I can work with Zinc - OK to plate if it is clean, although I
              > worry about
              > > the mold release. Are they silicone cased?
              > > >
              > > > Thanks!
              > > >
              > > >
              > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              > ----
              > > ------
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
              > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
              > > >
              > > > The Home Foundrymen's Association website may be found here:
              > > http://members.xoom.com/HWilkinson/index.htm
              > > > It includes member project pages & links
              > > >
              > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > hobbicast-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              >
              >
              > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
              > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
              >
              > The Home Foundrymen's Association website may be found here:
              http://members.xoom.com/HWilkinson/index.htm
              > It includes member project pages & links
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > hobbicast-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
            • LLandstrom
              Don t know much about zameck alloy (or whatever it is) but you can get almost pure zinc in 40 lb ingots from a galvinizer. That s where I get mine. Although I
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
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                Don't know much about zameck alloy (or whatever it is)
                but you can get almost pure zinc in 40 lb ingots from
                a galvinizer. That's where I get mine. Although I use
                it to make brass.

                LL

                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
                http://shopping.yahoo.com/
              • Stephen Lovely
                I got some zinc casting alloy from Belmont Metals in Brooklyn New York. I still haven t gotten around to casting anything from it, but they were very happy to
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
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                  I got some zinc casting alloy from Belmont Metals in Brooklyn New York.
                  I still haven't gotten around to casting anything from it, but they were
                  very happy to send me a couple ingots via UPS. I found them in the
                  Thomas Register, called them on the phone, gave them a credit card
                  number, and the stuff showed up in a few days. It came as a couple of
                  separate packages to keep the weight of each package under 70 lbs.

                  They sell brass and bronze and such as well.

                  Stephen C. Lovely
                  Milford, Massachusetts, USA


                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Jim Clary [SMTP:jclary@...]
                  > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 12:55 PM
                  > To: hobbicast@egroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [hobbicast] Re: casting emblems/need ZA-12
                  >
                  > Tom,
                  >
                  > Buying casting alloys is always difficult for the small foundry. Metal
                  > suppliers don't want to mess with sales of less that 2000 pounds (one ton)
                  > and that is usually too much for us. Your best bet, I think, would be to
                  > find a local foundry in your yellow pages Business to Business book and
                  > see
                  > if they will be willing to sell you an ingot or more at a time. Your best
                  > bet for the zinc alloys is the die casters. If you can talk to the owner
                  > directly and explain what you're doing you'll probably find an empathetic
                  > ear. These guys all started small too and they love to talk castings. If
                  > you
                  > don't have any luck there, try to find some other guys like yourself that
                  > will split a bundle with you, even if you have to ship the ingots to them
                  > across country. Trying to buy any specific alloy by buying scrap is a
                  > chancy
                  > deal, especially with the zinc and copper alloys.
                  >
                  > Jim Clary
                  >
                  >
                • LLandstrom
                  Atlas metals in Denver will ship small quantities at good prices. They ve got a web-site too. Lyle __________________________________________________ Do You
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
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                    Atlas metals in Denver will ship small quantities at
                    good prices. They've got a web-site too.

                    Lyle

                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
                    http://shopping.yahoo.com/
                  • Netguy
                    Thanks for the advice. I m not too worried about finding the alloy - my chemical vendor for the other chemicals can get it. I am interested in developing the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
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                      Thanks for the advice.

                      I'm not too worried about finding the alloy - my chemical vendor for the
                      other chemicals can get it.

                      I am interested in developing the needed process and equipment information
                      much more.

                      What do you estimate the total equipment cost will be if I buy quality stuff
                      ?
                    • Robert Grauman
                      ... Here in the wilds of northern Alberta, we are often forced to improvise. We have found a local galvaniser that will sell us ~40 lb ingots of zinc. Some
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
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                        > Don't know much about zameck alloy (or whatever it is)
                        > but you can get almost pure zinc in 40 lb ingots from
                        > a galvinizer. That's where I get mine. Although I use
                        > it to make brass.
                        >
                        > LL

                        Here in the wilds of northern Alberta, we are often forced to improvise. We
                        have found a local galvaniser that will sell us ~40 lb ingots of zinc. Some
                        of us are alloying our own ZA12 with good results to date. ZA12 is 11%
                        aluminum, 1% copper, and the rest zinc, all by weight, of course. We
                        preheat the copper in the crucible, and melt the aluminum on top of the
                        copper. The copper does not need to be molten, and will chemically dissolve
                        in the aluminum. The copper should have a large surface area to volume
                        ratio, and we find that wire scrap works well. When the aluminum is
                        dissolved, the zinc is added, and the temperature of the furnace can be
                        dropped as the zinc mixes in.

                        When melting the ZA12 for casting, it is easy to overheat the metal, as has
                        happened to us a number of times. We have found that a pyrometer is
                        necessary. Do not dross the melt as soon as it melts. It appears that some
                        of the aluminum will float as a slush when the alloy first melts, and if you
                        dross it too soon, you will skim some of the aluminum off. Dross and stir
                        just before pouring.

                        You can find more information about ZA12 at:
                        http://www.eazall.com/ZA%20Casting%20Alloys/ZA%20Casting%20Alloys.html

                        and further information at:

                        http://www.eazall.com/TechLit/Die%20Casting%20Guidelines%20for%20ZA-12%20&%2
                        0ZA-27.pdf

                        I hope this helps.

                        Robert Grauman in Sunny Alberta
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