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  • bbchris <bbchris@yahoo.com>
    I ve been vegetarian for years and just recently became a vegan. Loving it btw! It s a bit difficult for my Mum to understand (she s Chinese!) So who else is
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 15, 2003
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      I've been vegetarian for years and just recently became a vegan.
      Loving it btw! It's a bit difficult for my Mum to understand (she's
      Chinese!)

      So who else is here?

      Chris
    • Dr John Wedderburn
      ... my wife finds it impossible to understand but at least she no longer brings dead animals into the house! ... this is a very small group. we should try to
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 16, 2003
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        > Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:37:44 -0000
        > From: "bbchris <bbchris@...>" <bbchris@...>
        > Subject:
        >
        > I've been vegetarian for years and just recently became a vegan.
        > Loving it btw! It's a bit difficult for my Mum to understand (she's
        > Chinese!)
        my wife finds it impossible to understand but at least she no longer brings
        dead animals into the house!

        > So who else is here?
        this is a very small group. we should try to enlarge it as i think we could
        have very interesting discussions - especially on how to persuade other
        people to become vegan.

        > Subject: Re: About Vegetable food
        >
        > Well it depends WHY you are being vegan/vegetarian doesn't it? I
        > like eating food that tastes like it but sympathise with a friend of
        > mine who caught her 4 year old daughter eating a 'real' sausage at a
        > kiddie's party. (She feeds them Linda McCartney sausages...)
        meat substitutes are expensive and to me don't taste good - but my children
        love them. i think they are useful during the transition phase when one
        still has the notion that something is missing from the plate if there isn't
        meat there.
        john.
      • Chris B.
        hahahahaha I remember when I first turned vegetarian around 17 years ago, one of my Uncles said You will die, if you don t eat meat! hahahahaha My poor
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 17, 2003
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          hahahahaha I remember when I first turned vegetarian around 17 years ago, one of my Uncles said "You will die, if you don't eat meat!" hahahahaha My poor Chinese family hahahaha
          I'm not sure about 'converting' others into being vegans. I'm happy to tell people what I do and dont eat and am really enjoying this no-dairy lifestyle (something that less than a year ago I would not have thought possible!!!!!) My energy is boundless and my skin is looking even better! wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
          We need a POSITIVE points PAGE online for people considering a vegan-lifestyle. Even if people were only vegan one day a week, what a difference this would make to the world!!!!!!
          Chris B. musician-cum-businesswoman
          Dr John Wedderburn <john@...> wrote:> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:37:44 -0000
          > From: "bbchris <bbchris@...>" <bbchris@...>
          > Subject:
          >
          > I've been vegetarian for years and just recently became a vegan.
          > Loving it btw! It's a bit difficult for my Mum to understand (she's
          > Chinese!)
          my wife finds it impossible to understand but at least she no longer brings
          dead animals into the house!

          > So who else is here?
          this is a very small group. we should try to enlarge it as i think we could
          have very interesting discussions - especially on how to persuade other
          people to become vegan.

          > Subject: Re: About Vegetable food
          >
          > Well it depends WHY you are being vegan/vegetarian doesn't it? I
          > like eating food that tastes like it but sympathise with a friend of
          > mine who caught her 4 year old daughter eating a 'real' sausage at a
          > kiddie's party. (She feeds them Linda McCartney sausages...)
          meat substitutes are expensive and to me don't taste good - but my children
          love them. i think they are useful during the transition phase when one
          still has the notion that something is missing from the plate if there isn't
          meat there.
          john.


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        • Dr John Wedderburn
          I think it is natural that when was has discovered something good for oneself (and the environment and the animals) one wants other people to discover it too.
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 18, 2003
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            I think it is natural that when was has discovered something good for
            oneself (and the environment and the animals) one wants other people to
            discover it too. To me the question is not WHETHER I should try to persuade
            others to try out the vegan lifestyle but HOW to persuade them. Certainly a
            very effective method is to walk around looking energetic and bright and
            waiting for people to ask your secret - but it is pretty slow. At the other
            extreme, constantly preaching at everyone you meet is likely to be
            counterproductive. So I guess the answer lies somewhere in between.
            There is some info on turning vegan on the HK Vegan website:
            http://www.ivu.hkvegan/ and there is more on the AAPN website:
            http://www.aapn.org/vegetarianism.html
            John.

            > Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 01:03:03 -0800 (PST)
            > From: "Chris B." <bbchris@...>
            > Subject: Re:>
            >
            > hahahahaha I remember when I first turned vegetarian around 17 years ago,
            one of my Uncles said "You will die, if you don't eat meat!" hahahahaha My
            poor Chinese family hahahaha
            > I'm not sure about 'converting' others into being vegans. I'm happy to
            tell people what I do and dont eat and am really enjoying this no-dairy
            lifestyle (something that less than a year ago I would not have thought
            possible!!!!!) My energy is boundless and my skin is looking even better!
            wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
            > We need a POSITIVE points PAGE online for people considering a
            vegan-lifestyle. Even if people were only vegan one day a week, what a
            difference this would make to the world!!!!!!
            > Chris B. musician-cum-businesswoman
          • Chris B.
            Well then we ll have to agree to disagree then!!!! I can only change myself not others.... I will never ram anything down anyone s throat. You have to find
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 18, 2003
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              Well then we'll have to agree to disagree then!!!! I can only change myself not others.... I will never ram anything down anyone's throat. You have to find out the leverage in each person and everybody's is different. It's very noble of you John to make that your goal in life, I'm most impressed!!!!
              The reason I went vegan? I attended Anthony Robbins "Unleash the Power Within" and on the last day (Day 4) we did eating & health and he recommended a 10-day detox. 4500 people attended that event. I'm in touch with around 30 people and everyone tried the detox and some like myself are continuing the vegan lifestyle. Utterly cool.
              Chris B. digging into an avocado salad sandwich
              Dr John Wedderburn <john@...> wrote:I think it is natural that when was has discovered something good for
              oneself (and the environment and the animals) one wants other people to
              discover it too. To me the question is not WHETHER I should try to persuade
              others to try out the vegan lifestyle but HOW to persuade them. Certainly a
              very effective method is to walk around looking energetic and bright and
              waiting for people to ask your secret - but it is pretty slow. At the other
              extreme, constantly preaching at everyone you meet is likely to be
              counterproductive. So I guess the answer lies somewhere in between.
              There is some info on turning vegan on the HK Vegan website:
              http://www.ivu.hkvegan/ and there is more on the AAPN website:
              http://www.aapn.org/vegetarianism.html
              John.

              > Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 01:03:03 -0800 (PST)
              > From: "Chris B." <bbchris@...>
              > Subject: Re:>
              >
              > hahahahaha I remember when I first turned vegetarian around 17 years ago,
              one of my Uncles said "You will die, if you don't eat meat!" hahahahaha My
              poor Chinese family hahahaha
              > I'm not sure about 'converting' others into being vegans. I'm happy to
              tell people what I do and dont eat and am really enjoying this no-dairy
              lifestyle (something that less than a year ago I would not have thought
              possible!!!!!) My energy is boundless and my skin is looking even better!
              wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
              > We need a POSITIVE points PAGE online for people considering a
              vegan-lifestyle. Even if people were only vegan one day a week, what a
              difference this would make to the world!!!!!!
              > Chris B. musician-cum-businesswoman


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • punky vegan
              i was talking to some kids yesterday (age 11 or so) and when they asked me why i dont eat meat, i said i dont believe that animals should suffer or be in pain
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 18, 2003
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                i was talking to some kids yesterday (age 11 or so) and when they asked me
                why i dont eat meat, i said i dont believe that animals should suffer or be
                in pain to satisfy our taste buds..they stared at me blankly and said "but
                some animals *dont* feel pain."
                upon further questioning, i learned that they truly believed that pigs,
                cows, chickens and other "food animals" dont have any feelings (of pain,
                pleasure, happiness, etc) but "companion animals" like dogs and cats do

                sometimes i wonder how people come to think this way.

                i was vegetarian for abt 2 years, then went vegan after that - i lapsed
                twice for about a week each though :(
                so far ive convinced one person to turn vegetarian, but no luck on the vegan
                front. i think constant harping on the barbarianism of meat eating helped
                but the turning point was when i showed him peta's "meet your meat" video
                (which i distribute for free to anyone whos interested).

                in my experience, meat eaters always defend themselves with the "but people
                are meant to eat meat!/animals are meant to be eaten as food!" mentality,
                and its tough challenging that.

                on another note, do you guys take any vitamin supplements?



                ---

                But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the
                sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into
                the world to enjoy.
                - Plutarch (c.AD 46 - c.120)

                http://www.liberation-mag.org.uk/



                >From: "Dr John Wedderburn" <john@...>
                >Reply-To: hkvegan@yahoogroups.com
                >To: <hkvegan@yahoogroups.com>
                >Subject: [hkvegan] Re: I'm new to this group!!!!
                >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:50:31 +0800
                >
                >I think it is natural that when was has discovered something good for
                >oneself (and the environment and the animals) one wants other people to
                >discover it too. To me the question is not WHETHER I should try to
                >persuade
                >others to try out the vegan lifestyle but HOW to persuade them. Certainly a
                >very effective method is to walk around looking energetic and bright and
                >waiting for people to ask your secret - but it is pretty slow. At the
                >other
                >extreme, constantly preaching at everyone you meet is likely to be
                >counterproductive. So I guess the answer lies somewhere in between.
                >There is some info on turning vegan on the HK Vegan website:
                >http://www.ivu.hkvegan/ and there is more on the AAPN website:
                >http://www.aapn.org/vegetarianism.html
                >John.
                >
                > > Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 01:03:03 -0800 (PST)
                > > From: "Chris B." <bbchris@...>
                > > Subject: Re:>
                > >
                > > hahahahaha I remember when I first turned vegetarian around 17 years
                >ago,
                >one of my Uncles said "You will die, if you don't eat meat!" hahahahaha My
                >poor Chinese family hahahaha
                > > I'm not sure about 'converting' others into being vegans. I'm happy to
                >tell people what I do and dont eat and am really enjoying this no-dairy
                >lifestyle (something that less than a year ago I would not have thought
                >possible!!!!!) My energy is boundless and my skin is looking even better!
                >wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
                > > We need a POSITIVE points PAGE online for people considering a
                >vegan-lifestyle. Even if people were only vegan one day a week, what a
                >difference this would make to the world!!!!!!
                > > Chris B. musician-cum-businesswoman
                >


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              • Dr John Wedderburn
                Hi Chris! You may decide that you do not think it right to try to change others or that you should get yourself right first before working on others - but in
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 19, 2003
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                  Hi Chris!
                  You may decide that you do not think it right to try to change others or
                  that you should get yourself right first before working on others - but in
                  fact you CAN change others! After all, Anthony Robbins changed you. And I
                  think we have a innate duty to try. To me the only question is how to set
                  about it and get the message over without pissing off the people we are
                  trying to change. The world could sure do with some changes!
                  Has anyone any suggestions on what we can do to popularise veganism in Hong
                  Kong?
                  John.

                  > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 05:43:41 -0800 (PST)
                  > From: "Chris B." <bbchris@...>
                  > Subject: Re: Re: I'm new to this group!!!!
                  >
                  >
                  > Well then we'll have to agree to disagree then!!!! I can only change
                  myself not others.... I will never ram anything down anyone's throat. You
                  have to find out the leverage in each person and everybody's is different.
                  It's very noble of you John to make that your goal in life, I'm most
                  impressed!!!!
                  > The reason I went vegan? I attended Anthony Robbins "Unleash the Power
                  Within" and on the last day (Day 4) we did eating & health and he
                  recommended a 10-day detox. 4500 people attended that event. I'm in touch
                  with around 30 people and everyone tried the detox and some like myself are
                  continuing the vegan lifestyle. Utterly cool.
                  > Chris B. digging into an avocado salad sandwich
                • Dr John Wedderburn
                  I think Punky has hit on possibly the most important problem with humans. The majority of members of the species do not believe that we are animals. It is
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 19, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I think Punky has hit on possibly the most important problem with humans.
                    The majority of members of the species do not believe that we are animals.
                    It is always "Humans and animals", not "Humans and other animals". I think
                    this is especially a problem in a heavily urbanised area like Hong Kong
                    where people rarely meet animals. Most people here think of animals as
                    things, not as beings.
                    How can we change that?
                    John.
                    PS - the vitamin question.
                    Vitamin B12 is essential - all vegans should take at least a B12 supplement.
                    I have always taken a multiple vitamin and mineral supplement every day -
                    there is no good evidence of the necessity for taking it but it is something
                    I can afford and there is no known downside so I do it.


                    > Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 15:52:23 +0800
                    > From: "punky vegan" <punkyvegan@...>
                    > Subject: >
                    > i was talking to some kids yesterday (age 11 or so) and when they asked me
                    > why i dont eat meat, i said i dont believe that animals should suffer or
                    be
                    > in pain to satisfy our taste buds..they stared at me blankly and said "but
                    > some animals *dont* feel pain."
                    > upon further questioning, i learned that they truly believed that pigs,
                    > cows, chickens and other "food animals" dont have any feelings (of pain,
                    > pleasure, happiness, etc) but "companion animals" like dogs and cats do
                    >
                    > sometimes i wonder how people come to think this way.
                    >
                    > i was vegetarian for abt 2 years, then went vegan after that - i lapsed
                    > twice for about a week each though :(
                    > so far ive convinced one person to turn vegetarian, but no luck on the
                    vegan
                    > front. i think constant harping on the barbarianism of meat eating helped
                    > but the turning point was when i showed him peta's "meet your meat" video
                    > (which i distribute for free to anyone whos interested).
                    >
                    > in my experience, meat eaters always defend themselves with the "but
                    people
                    > are meant to eat meat!/animals are meant to be eaten as food!" mentality,
                    > and its tough challenging that.
                    >
                    > on another note, do you guys take any vitamin supplements?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---
                    >
                    > But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the
                    > sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born
                    into
                    > the world to enjoy.
                    > - Plutarch (c.AD 46 - c.120)
                    >
                    > http://www.liberation-mag.org.uk/
                  • Chris B.
                    hahaha People believe what they want to believe! I had an Uncle who got liver cancer and did the chemo etc. Then the doctors in San Francisco advised him to
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 19, 2003
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                      hahaha People believe what they want to believe! I had an Uncle who got liver cancer and did the chemo etc. Then the doctors in San Francisco advised him to also give up meat, dairy & eggs and eat lots more raw vegetables and fish. His tumour shrunk and he was taken off the liver transplant list and my whole Chinese family now have a slightly different perspective on the 'meat' eating mentality. I was chatting to this guy the other day and he said 'oh my wife is typical Chinese - needs to have meat in all her meals or its not real food' and I told the story of my Uncle and said "Hopefully she doesn't need such an extreme example to bring awareness" He kind of ignored the whole thing hahahahahahahaha
                      On the Anthony Robbins thing, he explained how meat is really ahem 'shit' and 'piss' - (I hope that doesn't offend anyone!) and it sounds really horrible. I easily gave up meat years ago - initially for health reasons - although I loved the secondary 'alternative-rebel' angle of it all hahahahahaha
                      And lastly YES I do take vitamin supplements - if I was eating wholly organic foods I probably wouldn't...........
                      Chris B. drinking a herbal tea
                      punky vegan <punkyvegan@...> wrote:i was talking to some kids yesterday (age 11 or so) and when they asked me
                      why i dont eat meat, i said i dont believe that animals should suffer or be
                      in pain to satisfy our taste buds..they stared at me blankly and said "but
                      some animals *dont* feel pain."
                      upon further questioning, i learned that they truly believed that pigs,
                      cows, chickens and other "food animals" dont have any feelings (of pain,
                      pleasure, happiness, etc) but "companion animals" like dogs and cats do

                      sometimes i wonder how people come to think this way.

                      i was vegetarian for abt 2 years, then went vegan after that - i lapsed
                      twice for about a week each though :(
                      so far ive convinced one person to turn vegetarian, but no luck on the vegan
                      front. i think constant harping on the barbarianism of meat eating helped
                      but the turning point was when i showed him peta's "meet your meat" video
                      (which i distribute for free to anyone whos interested).

                      in my experience, meat eaters always defend themselves with the "but people
                      are meant to eat meat!/animals are meant to be eaten as food!" mentality,
                      and its tough challenging that.

                      on another note, do you guys take any vitamin supplements?



                      ---

                      But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the
                      sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into
                      the world to enjoy.
                      - Plutarch (c.AD 46 - c.120)

                      http://www.liberation-mag.org.uk/



                      >From: "Dr John Wedderburn" <john@...>
                      >Reply-To: hkvegan@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: <hkvegan@yahoogroups.com>
                      >Subject: [hkvegan] Re: I'm new to this group!!!!
                      >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:50:31 +0800
                      >
                      >I think it is natural that when was has discovered something good for
                      >oneself (and the environment and the animals) one wants other people to
                      >discover it too. To me the question is not WHETHER I should try to
                      >persuade
                      >others to try out the vegan lifestyle but HOW to persuade them. Certainly a
                      >very effective method is to walk around looking energetic and bright and
                      >waiting for people to ask your secret - but it is pretty slow. At the
                      >other
                      >extreme, constantly preaching at everyone you meet is likely to be
                      >counterproductive. So I guess the answer lies somewhere in between.
                      >There is some info on turning vegan on the HK Vegan website:
                      >http://www.ivu.hkvegan/ and there is more on the AAPN website:
                      >http://www.aapn.org/vegetarianism.html
                      >John.
                      >
                      > > Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 01:03:03 -0800 (PST)
                      > > From: "Chris B." <bbchris@...>
                      > > Subject: Re:>
                      > >
                      > > hahahahaha I remember when I first turned vegetarian around 17 years
                      >ago,
                      >one of my Uncles said "You will die, if you don't eat meat!" hahahahaha My
                      >poor Chinese family hahahaha
                      > > I'm not sure about 'converting' others into being vegans. I'm happy to
                      >tell people what I do and dont eat and am really enjoying this no-dairy
                      >lifestyle (something that less than a year ago I would not have thought
                      >possible!!!!!) My energy is boundless and my skin is looking even better!
                      >wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
                      > > We need a POSITIVE points PAGE online for people considering a
                      >vegan-lifestyle. Even if people were only vegan one day a week, what a
                      >difference this would make to the world!!!!!!
                      > > Chris B. musician-cum-businesswoman
                      >


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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Chris B.
                      Hmm interesting. Perhaps schools could organise awareness trips? To where though! hahahahahaha I never saw a live cow till I went to the UK when I was 17
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 19, 2003
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                        Hmm interesting. Perhaps schools could organise awareness trips? To where though! hahahahahaha I never saw a live cow till I went to the UK when I was 17 years old, I saw plenty of dead ones in the market!!!! hahahahaha
                        And if you live on Lamma, early every morning (around 7am) you get to see a lovely dead pig lying just outside the ferry pier waiting to be carted off to the local butchers stall. I took a photo one morning (going to submit to a photo contest!!!) and showed it to a friend of mine, she was shocked, she buys pork from that butchers............
                        Dr John Wedderburn <john@...> wrote:I think Punky has hit on possibly the most important problem with humans.
                        The majority of members of the species do not believe that we are animals.
                        It is always "Humans and animals", not "Humans and other animals". I think
                        this is especially a problem in a heavily urbanised area like Hong Kong
                        where people rarely meet animals. Most people here think of animals as
                        things, not as beings.
                        How can we change that?
                        John.
                        PS - the vitamin question.
                        Vitamin B12 is essential - all vegans should take at least a B12 supplement.
                        I have always taken a multiple vitamin and mineral supplement every day -
                        there is no good evidence of the necessity for taking it but it is something
                        I can afford and there is no known downside so I do it.


                        > Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 15:52:23 +0800
                        > From: "punky vegan" <punkyvegan@...>
                        > Subject: >
                        > i was talking to some kids yesterday (age 11 or so) and when they asked me
                        > why i dont eat meat, i said i dont believe that animals should suffer or
                        be
                        > in pain to satisfy our taste buds..they stared at me blankly and said "but
                        > some animals *dont* feel pain."
                        > upon further questioning, i learned that they truly believed that pigs,
                        > cows, chickens and other "food animals" dont have any feelings (of pain,
                        > pleasure, happiness, etc) but "companion animals" like dogs and cats do
                        >
                        > sometimes i wonder how people come to think this way.
                        >
                        > i was vegetarian for abt 2 years, then went vegan after that - i lapsed
                        > twice for about a week each though :(
                        > so far ive convinced one person to turn vegetarian, but no luck on the
                        vegan
                        > front. i think constant harping on the barbarianism of meat eating helped
                        > but the turning point was when i showed him peta's "meet your meat" video
                        > (which i distribute for free to anyone whos interested).
                        >
                        > in my experience, meat eaters always defend themselves with the "but
                        people
                        > are meant to eat meat!/animals are meant to be eaten as food!" mentality,
                        > and its tough challenging that.
                        >
                        > on another note, do you guys take any vitamin supplements?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---
                        >
                        > But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the
                        > sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born
                        into
                        > the world to enjoy.
                        > - Plutarch (c.AD 46 - c.120)
                        >
                        > http://www.liberation-mag.org.uk/


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                        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        hkvegan-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Chris B.
                        Oh I agree that Anthony Robbins changed my life! Yes, but I paid to go and was prepared to change my life too! hahahahahahahahahahahaha I often point out to
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 19, 2003
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                          Oh I agree that Anthony Robbins changed my life! Yes, but I paid to go and was prepared to change my life too! hahahahahahahahahahahaha
                          I often point out to people when they come to our house for dinner that the entire meal is vegan & I'm quite a good cook hahahahahahahaha I wont go to a steakhouse. I feel that would be OKaying eating meat. I DO do my part - I point out to people when they don't feel well that it is probably their diet!!! You can spot the ones who just might try what you are suggesting a mile off from the others who look at you like - yeah yeah you vegetarian hippy.........
                          Amazingly I've watched several vegetarians revert back to a meat eating lifestyle. And I realised that in my head, I put a higher significance on vegetarians. I digress here. I think their initial reasons to become vegetarian/vegan isn't strong enough? Believe me theres HEAPS of marketing out there to get people to eat meat, drink milk etc. I think it's more worrying that people become vegetarian/vegan and then revert back..........
                          Dr John Wedderburn <john@...> wrote:Hi Chris!
                          You may decide that you do not think it right to try to change others or
                          that you should get yourself right first before working on others - but in
                          fact you CAN change others! After all, Anthony Robbins changed you. And I
                          think we have a innate duty to try. To me the only question is how to set
                          about it and get the message over without pissing off the people we are
                          trying to change. The world could sure do with some changes!
                          Has anyone any suggestions on what we can do to popularise veganism in Hong
                          Kong?
                          John.

                          > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 05:43:41 -0800 (PST)
                          > From: "Chris B." <bbchris@...>
                          > Subject: Re: Re: I'm new to this group!!!!
                          >
                          >
                          > Well then we'll have to agree to disagree then!!!! I can only change
                          myself not others.... I will never ram anything down anyone's throat. You
                          have to find out the leverage in each person and everybody's is different.
                          It's very noble of you John to make that your goal in life, I'm most
                          impressed!!!!
                          > The reason I went vegan? I attended Anthony Robbins "Unleash the Power
                          Within" and on the last day (Day 4) we did eating & health and he
                          recommended a 10-day detox. 4500 people attended that event. I'm in touch
                          with around 30 people and everyone tried the detox and some like myself are
                          continuing the vegan lifestyle. Utterly cool.
                          > Chris B. digging into an avocado salad sandwich


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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • punky vegan
                          what they say about if people knew what went on behind closed doors at a slaughterhouse then they would stop eating meat holds true..at the very least they ll
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 21, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            what they say about if people knew what went on behind closed doors at a
                            slaughterhouse then they would stop eating meat holds true..at the very
                            least they ll stay away from meat for a day or two..the shock tactics
                            (undercover video footage, pictures in advertisements and publicity stunts)
                            used by peta in the usa have proved effective but in hk, animal rights
                            groups are way too moderate for that sort of thing. peta is setting up
                            office here and i cant wait to see what they get up to...honestly, im up for
                            anything even civil disobedience if thats what it takes for people to stand
                            up and take notice..if i piss off a few people in the course of converting
                            even just one person then id have achieved something.

                            just my thoughts.

                            punky

                            ---

                            But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the
                            sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into
                            the world to enjoy.
                            - Plutarch (c.AD 46 - c.120)

                            http://www.liberation-mag.org.uk/






                            >From: "Dr John Wedderburn" <john@...>
                            >Reply-To: hkvegan@yahoogroups.com
                            >To: <hkvegan@yahoogroups.com>
                            >Subject: [hkvegan] Re: I'm new to this group!!!!
                            >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:48:56 +0800
                            >
                            >Hi Chris!
                            >You may decide that you do not think it right to try to change others or
                            >that you should get yourself right first before working on others - but in
                            >fact you CAN change others! After all, Anthony Robbins changed you. And
                            >I
                            >think we have a innate duty to try. To me the only question is how to set
                            >about it and get the message over without pissing off the people we are
                            >trying to change. The world could sure do with some changes!
                            >Has anyone any suggestions on what we can do to popularise veganism in Hong
                            >Kong?
                            >John.
                            >


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                          • Chris B.
                            hahahaha When you put it like that! I love to do shocking things myself so I d be up for it. hahahahahahahahaha And civil disobedience is good too. I
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jan 21, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              hahahaha When you put it like that! I love to do shocking things myself so I'd be up for it. hahahahahahahahaha And civil disobedience is good too. I would be ready as a musician & performer to do something in that respect.
                              On the other hand, I don't know about shocking people here with the slaughterhouse methods - I grew up here and I've met many Western people who are shocked by the wet markets.. hahahaha And in Cantonese they are honest and call it pig-meat, cow-meat etc. However when I found out about western systems such as Campbell's chicken soup, that put me off totally. Totally gross.....
                              Does anyone remember when there were complaints about that Body Shop advert with a blobby doll saying something like "there are only 8 supermodels in the world, the rest of us look like this"!?!?!
                              Also the important balance is offering people alternatives - you have to show them it's simple to replace the meat in their diet. Simple and tasty...
                              punky vegan <punkyvegan@...> wrote:
                              what they say about if people knew what went on behind closed doors at a
                              slaughterhouse then they would stop eating meat holds true..at the very
                              least they ll stay away from meat for a day or two..the shock tactics
                              (undercover video footage, pictures in advertisements and publicity stunts)
                              used by peta in the usa have proved effective but in hk, animal rights
                              groups are way too moderate for that sort of thing. peta is setting up
                              office here and i cant wait to see what they get up to...honestly, im up for
                              anything even civil disobedience if thats what it takes for people to stand
                              up and take notice..if i piss off a few people in the course of converting
                              even just one person then id have achieved something.

                              just my thoughts.

                              punky

                              ---

                              But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the
                              sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into
                              the world to enjoy.
                              - Plutarch (c.AD 46 - c.120)

                              http://www.liberation-mag.org.uk/






                              >From: "Dr John Wedderburn" <john@...>
                              >Reply-To: hkvegan@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: <hkvegan@yahoogroups.com>
                              >Subject: [hkvegan] Re: I'm new to this group!!!!
                              >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:48:56 +0800
                              >
                              >Hi Chris!
                              >You may decide that you do not think it right to try to change others or
                              >that you should get yourself right first before working on others - but in
                              >fact you CAN change others! After all, Anthony Robbins changed you. And
                              >I
                              >think we have a innate duty to try. To me the only question is how to set
                              >about it and get the message over without pissing off the people we are
                              >trying to change. The world could sure do with some changes!
                              >Has anyone any suggestions on what we can do to popularise veganism in Hong
                              >Kong?
                              >John.
                              >


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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • punky vegan
                              i think what throws westerners offguard here abt the wet markets is the hygiene factor more than anything tho. in general, the chinese diet consists of a
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jan 22, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                i think what throws westerners offguard here abt the wet markets is the
                                hygiene factor more than anything tho. in general, the chinese diet consists
                                of a higher percentage of veggies than the western diet..
                                i dont think meat substitutes will entice ppl to turn to veg*nism..eating
                                meat is just so engrained into the culture, we need a total shift in
                                thinking
                                sad but true :(


                                ---

                                But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the
                                sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into
                                the world to enjoy.
                                - Plutarch (c.AD 46 - c.120)

                                http://www.liberation-mag.org.uk/






                                >On the other hand, I don't know about shocking people here with the
                                >slaughterhouse methods - I grew up here and I've met many Western people
                                >who are shocked by the wet markets.. hahahaha And in Cantonese they are
                                >honest and call it pig-meat, cow-meat etc. However when I found out about
                                >western systems such as Campbell's chicken soup, that put me off totally.
                                >Totally gross.....
                                >Does anyone remember when there were complaints about that Body Shop advert
                                >with a blobby doll saying something like "there are only 8 supermodels in
                                >the world, the rest of us look like this"!?!?!
                                >Also the important balance is offering people alternatives - you have to
                                >show them it's simple to replace the meat in their diet. Simple and
                                >tasty...


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