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Re: Hex vs Quad

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  • Steve
    Brad, A 5-band 2-element Cubical Quad will beat a 5-band Hexbeam for Gain by about 2dB (1/3 S point). But note that you would have to use a spider for the
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 6, 2008
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      Brad,

      A 5-band 2-element Cubical Quad will beat a 5-band Hexbeam for Gain by
      about 2dB (1/3 S point). But note that you would have to use a
      "spider" for the Quad - rather than a boom - to maintain the optimum
      element spacing on every band.

      On the other side of the equation, the Hexbeam is smaller/lighter, and
      is more amenable to a single feedline for all 5 bands.

      73,
      Steve G3TXQ
    • Phil
      Interesting discussion... one thought came to mind; the wire elements of quads are usually nested in the same plane as the spreaders. I wonder if a multi band
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 6, 2008
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        Interesting discussion... one thought came to mind; the wire elements
        of quads are usually nested in the same plane as the spreaders. I
        wonder if a multi band hex beam can be made with all of the elements in
        the same plane as well (i.e. nested w/o bending of the spreaders.) This
        would provide a lower profile antenna, although it may be difficult to
        tune.
      • Steve
        Phil, I you do really mean in the same plane , the answer is NO for the Hexbeam - the wires coming back to the Centre Post would all be touching one another.
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 6, 2008
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          Phil,

          I you do really mean "in the same plane", the answer is NO for the
          Hexbeam - the wires coming back to the Centre Post would all be
          touching one another.

          The better 2-element Quad designs have the angled "spider" at the
          centre which allows the Drivers/Reflectors for the different bands to
          be in different planes - that lets you keep the spacing the same, as a
          proportion of wavelength.

          A 6-arm "spider" with straight spreaders would make a sound basis for
          a Hexbeam - it would allow the vertical spacing between the bands to
          be kept proportional to wavelength, and that would avoid some of the
          interactions we see between 15m/12m/10m. On the other hand the support
          structure would occupy more height because, for example, on a 20m thru
          10m version the spider-10m spacing would be as big as the 10m-20m spacing.

          73,
          Steve G3TXQ








          --- In hex-beam@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <slolawfirm@...> wrote:
          >
          > Interesting discussion... one thought came to mind; the wire elements
          > of quads are usually nested in the same plane as the spreaders. I
          > wonder if a multi band hex beam can be made with all of the elements in
          > the same plane as well (i.e. nested w/o bending of the spreaders.) This
          > would provide a lower profile antenna, although it may be difficult to
          > tune.
          >
        • Danny Douglas
          Back in the 70s, there was a fellow up in Kennewick Washington who sold what was known as gthe boomless spider . It was two sheets of aluminum, which were
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 6, 2008
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            Back in the 70s, there was a fellow up in Kennewick Washington who sold what was known as gthe "boomless spider". It was two sheets of aluminum, which were bolted together, and on each sheet there were four pieces of angle alulminum, welded to the sheets - plus one piece that came off the bottom edige of one plate. This allowed one to built a quad with any number of bands, and setting the driven/reflector elements at the proper distance (think it was about %2 of bandwidth)from each other. I purchased one, and took it to Greece with me, also being able to find some bamboo poles there for spreaders. It worked very well, and there was literally no bend in the bamboo.

            With the present design - I have a problem bending the bamboo enough to form the hex just right. It would be nice to have something similar to that boomless spider, which would just have one sheet of metal, with angle pieces attached for the spreaders and I have tinkered with another type of "boomless" piece I have used for quads - a piece of pipe, turned on end and both the bottom and top sides split a few inches and then bent outward to form the holders for the spreaders. Simply clamping spreaders to the 4 arms on each end, and with the pipe liad horizontal, allows one to easily build a quad. Just using one end of the pipe and splitting it into 6 holders would seem to be an easy way to build the center piece for the hex. You would need a pretty stiff pipe, so as not to pull the elements so tight it would bend the pipe pieces back into their "normal" plane. But, its a thought.

            Danny Douglas
            N7DC
            ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
            SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
            All 2 years or more (except Novice)
            Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
            I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
            those who do.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Steve
            To: hex-beam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:30 AM
            Subject: [hex-beam] Re: Hex vs Quad


            Phil,

            I you do really mean "in the same plane", the answer is NO for the
            Hexbeam - the wires coming back to the Centre Post would all be
            touching one another.

            The better 2-element Quad designs have the angled "spider" at the
            centre which allows the Drivers/Reflectors for the different bands to
            be in different planes - that lets you keep the spacing the same, as a
            proportion of wavelength.

            A 6-arm "spider" with straight spreaders would make a sound basis for
            a Hexbeam - it would allow the vertical spacing between the bands to
            be kept proportional to wavelength, and that would avoid some of the
            interactions we see between 15m/12m/10m. On the other hand the support
            structure would occupy more height because, for example, on a 20m thru
            10m version the spider-10m spacing would be as big as the 10m-20m spacing.

            73,
            Steve G3TXQ

            --- In hex-beam@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <slolawfirm@...> wrote:
            >
            > Interesting discussion... one thought came to mind; the wire elements
            > of quads are usually nested in the same plane as the spreaders. I
            > wonder if a multi band hex beam can be made with all of the elements in
            > the same plane as well (i.e. nested w/o bending of the spreaders.) This
            > would provide a lower profile antenna, although it may be difficult to
            > tune.
            >




            No virus found in this incoming message.
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          • edward campbell
            Got an email from WH2X.. he has a hex beam up and loving it.. So you guys will have to look out for him and get the chance to work hex to hex..   He did not
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 6, 2008
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              Got an email from WH2X.. he has a hex beam up and loving it.. So you guys will have to look out for him and get the chance to work hex to hex..
                He did not send particulars on how high etc.. But did ask and will pass on once I get a reply..
               
                Another DXer up and running..
               
               Ed NX7TT




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Phil
              Hi Steve, I believe you could overcome some of the mechanical problems, but the effect on the antenna s performance may be compromised. In the back of my mind,
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 6, 2008
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                Hi Steve,

                I believe you could overcome some of the mechanical problems, but the
                effect on the antenna's performance may be compromised. In the back
                of my mind, Force 12 uses a parasitic arrangement (yagi) for certain
                bands which are not directly connected to the feedpoint. The
                technique seems sound, but may not work in the complex hexbeam
                arrangement, i.e. akin to nesting of Moxon elements per Cebik.


                --- In hex-beam@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <steve@...> wrote:
                >
                > Phil,
                >
                > I you do really mean "in the same plane", the answer is NO for the
                > Hexbeam - the wires coming back to the Centre Post would all be
                > touching one another.
                >
                > The better 2-element Quad designs have the angled "spider" at the
                > centre which allows the Drivers/Reflectors for the different bands
                to
                > be in different planes - that lets you keep the spacing the same,
                as a
                > proportion of wavelength.
                >
                > A 6-arm "spider" with straight spreaders would make a sound basis
                for
                > a Hexbeam - it would allow the vertical spacing between the bands to
                > be kept proportional to wavelength, and that would avoid some of the
                > interactions we see between 15m/12m/10m. On the other hand the
                support
                > structure would occupy more height because, for example, on a 20m
                thru
                > 10m version the spider-10m spacing would be as big as the 10m-20m
                spacing.
                >
                > 73,
                > Steve G3TXQ
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In hex-beam@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <slolawfirm@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Interesting discussion... one thought came to mind; the wire
                elements
                > > of quads are usually nested in the same plane as the spreaders. I
                > > wonder if a multi band hex beam can be made with all of the
                elements in
                > > the same plane as well (i.e. nested w/o bending of the
                spreaders.) This
                > > would provide a lower profile antenna, although it may be
                difficult to
                > > tune.
                > >
                >
              • Armand Sun
                Ed, I heard he has it at 40feet. At 12:30am pacific, he s usually on 14.277. If I had known he was on a hex I would ve called him. DU6BG is also on the same
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 6, 2008
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                  Ed,

                  I heard he has it at 40feet. At 12:30am pacific, he's usually on 14.277.
                  If I had known he was on a hex I would've called him. DU6BG is also on the
                  same time/freq. but he's using a 4element quad.

                  Armand
                  K6IP

                  >
                  > Got an email from WH2X.. he has a hex beam up and loving it.. So you guys
                  > will have to look out for him and get the chance to work hex to hex..
                  >   He did not send particulars on how high etc.. But did ask and will pass
                  > on once I get a reply..
                  >  
                  >   Another DXer up and running..
                  >  
                  >  Ed NX7TT
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                • Numsi21@aol.com
                  Congrats to everyone that had a productive hex-beam weekend!!! I now have a 33.5 foot ROHN 20 tower (house bracket) with a Ham IV and the hex is on a 12 foot
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 6, 2008
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                    Congrats to everyone that had a productive hex-beam weekend!!! I now have a 33.5 foot ROHN 20 tower (house bracket) with a Ham IV and the hex is on a 12 foot mast, so I'd say the base plate is about 42-45 eet. It's playing well on all bands now.

                    Bruce

                    WA8IQF


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: edward campbell <ah2beecamp@...>
                    To: hex-beam@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 1:14 pm
                    Subject: [hex-beam] new DX hex up and running








                    Got an email from WH2X.. he has a hex beam up and loving it.. So you guys will have to look out for him and get the chance to work hex to hex..
                    ? He did not send particulars on how high etc.. But did ask and will pass on once I get a reply..
                    ?
                    ? Another DXer up and running..
                    ?
                    ?Ed NX7TT

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • bur52@aol.com
                    Good to know.. I worked Kh7XS on Saturday nite. He had a nice signal to the east coast. I will look for him.. 73 **************Looking for a car that s
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 6, 2008
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                      Good to know..

                      I worked Kh7XS on Saturday nite. He had a nice signal to the east coast.
                      I will look for him..
                      73



                      **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
                      Read reviews on AOL Autos.
                      (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • bur52@aol.com
                      ...and the Hex will maybe survive ice and wind , at a better rate IMHO JohnB k3jvb **************Looking for a car that s sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 6, 2008
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                        ...and the Hex will maybe survive ice and wind , at a better rate IMHO
                        JohnB
                        k3jvb



                        **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
                        Read reviews on AOL Autos.
                        (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • edward campbell
                        yup that is what he said... 14277 is where he hangs out with others so you never know who you will hear..    ED ... From: Armand Sun
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 7, 2008
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                          yup that is what he said... 14277 is where he hangs out with others so you never know who you will hear..
                           
                           ED

                          --- On Wed, 8/6/08, Armand Sun <armand@...> wrote:

                          From: Armand Sun <armand@...>
                          Subject: Re: [hex-beam] new DX hex up and running
                          To: hex-beam@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 11:40 AM






                          Ed,

                          I heard he has it at 40feet. At 12:30am pacific, he's usually on 14.277.
                          If I had known he was on a hex I would've called him. DU6BG is also on the
                          same time/freq. but he's using a 4element quad.

                          Armand
                          K6IP

                          >
                          > Got an email from WH2X.. he has a hex beam up and loving it.. So you guys
                          > will have to look out for him and get the chance to work hex to hex..
                          >   He did not send particulars on how high etc.. But did ask and will pass
                          > on once I get a reply..
                          >  
                          >   Another DXer up and running..
                          >  
                          >  Ed NX7TT
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >


















                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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