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Re: [hegel] Re: something to think about

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  • greuterb
    ... John, The problem I raised was not the syllogisms in the ENC, or life, or the parts of Hegel s philosophy but its essence. The essence, however, of all you
    Message 1 of 88 , Sep 10, 2011
      Am 10.09.2011 02:44, John writes:

      > --- In hegel@yahoogroups.com <mailto:hegel%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > greuterb <greuterb@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > John,
      > >
      > > You seem to look on this world and Hegel's philosophy in a fundamental
      > > way, that there is a truth beyond interpretation and discussion. It is
      > > precisely Hegel's philosophy which tells us the reverse against Kant's
      > > fundamentalism which sees a true objective world beyond subjective
      > > investigations and therefore a truth (objectivity) which never can be
      > > achieved. If you read the Phenomenology and its transition into Pure
      > > Knowing carefully you will find that in Pure Knowing and its unfolding
      > > in the Logic the subjective moment for its own (the being-for-itself of
      > > world relation) as well as the objective moment for its own (the
      > > being-in-itself of religion) are sublated in their unity and this means
      > > that now the opposite moments in the concept (the for-itself and the
      > > in-itself) have to be revealed within this unity. This is indeed a new
      > > form - the philosophical form - which has now to develop its own
      > content
      > > - the philosophical content - that shows the path of arising
      > > objectivity. Consciousness-related contents and religious contents for
      > > their own can never claim truth or objectivity since they are embedded
      > > in an absolute which they do not thematize critically as the
      > philosopher
      > > does or at least should do.
      > >
      > > Regards,
      > > Beat Greuter
      > Dear Beat,
      > I do understand what you are saying, and I think you express the
      > matter quite well.
      > I do, though, feel the need to qualify the matter somewhat.
      > I think the three syllogisms at the end of the Encyclodedia are
      > relevant here. There is a developing speculative relationship between
      > logic, nature, and spirit. The truth, so we are told, is the whole.
      > So, certainly, the truth cannot be fully embodied by any given part or
      > aspect of this whole. So the logic, the philosophy of nature, the
      > philosophy of spirit (in all its various aspects including religion)
      > reflect back on one another. The truth is kindled, so to speak, by the
      > circling around of the three in all their aspects. The whole is
      > reflected in all of the three, and in all the aspects that make up the
      > three.
      > This has to do, perhaps, with the relationship among sensibility,
      > irritability and reproduction as the three moments of the concept of
      > life, in the section of the Phenomenology that Joao is presently reading.
      > So I agree with you that the truth is not completely embodied in any
      > given part of this whole. The point I have been trying to make of
      > late, though, is that the whole, insofar as parts of it have been
      > supressed or violently eradicated, and in regard to Hegel's philosophy
      > this is the fate that his philosophy of religion and even his
      > philosophy of nature as a whole tend to suffer in most of modern
      > scholarship, when the whole is defaced in this way--well, it is no
      > longer the whole. The truth is lost.
      > John


      The problem I raised was not the syllogisms in the ENC, or life, or the
      parts of Hegel's philosophy but its essence. The essence, however, of
      all you mentioned is the concept: the concept in pure form, in its total
      other and in its coming back to itself. This all has to be understood as
      the intrinsic movement or evolution or labour of the concept as the
      continuous reconciliation of its unity and difference. There is no true
      explanation from the outside in the forms of immediate intuitions,
      representations, or abstractions of the understanding with their
      respective given contents or objects which are assumed to be their truth
      makers. Hegel's philosophy is tragical, it has no ground.

      Beat Greuter

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Alan Ponikvar
      What is curious about Hegel s discussion of Christianity is that he finds that he has to go back to its inception point as he does in Revealed Religion to find
      Message 88 of 88 , Jan 6, 2012
        What is curious about Hegel's discussion of Christianity is that he finds
        that he has to go back to its inception point as he does in Revealed
        Religion to find an evident but ignored truth: the truth of Christianity is
        not Christ, his message, or the promise of his return. The truth is the
        living Christian community in that early time poised between the past event
        and the future hope. It is this being poised between that most interests
        Hegel as he then moves into Absolute Knowing in the Phenomenology.

        The Unhappy Consciousness which comes earlier in the exposition actually is
        a Christianity that has moved beyond its own communal truth to become about
        the divide between a finite individual and the divine as the bad infinite.
        So the speculative truth of Christianity is no longer a living truth for
        Christians but something that itself has passed. Hegel may have had some
        quixotic interest in reinvigorating this original truth or he may more
        cynically have been appropriating it for his own philosophic interests. I do
        not know.

        But the appeal of viewing Christianity as a death of god religion is that
        such a reading facilitates one of Hegel's main philosophic interests: to
        move from the divide between man and a transcendent god to a true infinite
        for which the divide freed of its theological setting is inherent to the
        true infinite itself as the truth about the human condition. God then is
        relegated to being nothing but this divide inherent to the absolute. It does
        not name what is normally meant by god. The meant god has died on the cross.
        Christianity speculatively comprehended has god die not so that we might
        await his return but rather so that we might find the speculative kingdom
        within and cease our futile attempt to grasp the void.

        - Alan

        From: Paul Trejo <petrejo@...>
        Reply-To: <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 09:28:46 -0800 (PST)
        To: <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: Re: [hegel] Re: Hegel's "mysticism" and Christian doctrine

        In response to the Tue13Sep11 post by Beat Greuter:

        > John,
        > In this sense you should found a secret society which is devoted to
        > Hegel as a theologian with its members looking at him as their master.
        > With this perhaps you will agree with me you destroy Hegel as a
        > philosopher of reason. This is a great pity since after Analytical
        > Philosophy has become caught in its cul-de-sac Hegel has become
        > (at least for some of its adherents) a kind of anchor for having
        > prepared the philosophical resources to overcome its intractable
        > contradictions, a light in the history of interpretation of Hegel's
        > philosophy, a light which you intend to blow out again as so many
        > did before in the history of Hegel reading.
        > Regards,
        > Beat Greuter

        Beat, the choices you offer are too dualist -- too Either/Or.
        It is not a one-sided matter of: 'Either Theology Or Philosophy
        and No Middle Ground', because Hegel offers a Third Way.

        The Analytical school, I have found so far, has a fixed idea about
        Religion. That fixed idea arrests the concept of Religion at its
        lowest and most primitive forms. Yet there is an organic aspect
        to Religion - an organic aspect that Hegel attempted to reveal in
        his Lectures on the Philosophy of Religion (1818-1831).

        Religion is not all one thing - i.e. the superstitions that circulated in
        Europe for so many centuries. There are aspects of Religion that
        you evidently have not explored.

        For example, as Hegel showed in his theory that Christianity is
        the Consummate Religion (volume 3), Christianity is the only
        Religion to have grown up alongside Greco-Roman Philosophy,
        in particular the Stoic ideology and Neoplatonism.

        For the reason, the Early Fathers of the Second Century were
        skilled not only in NT dogma, but also in Plato and Aristotle.
        These are the beginnings of a movement that carried Western
        Civilization along for nearly 20 centuries.

        All the European superstitions in the world cannot devalue a
        movement so strong and vital as this culture.

        Best regards,
        --Paul Trejo, MA

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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