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Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit Perception # 126

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  • robert fanelli
        DearGroup, A waythat we can recognize what a thing is, is through consciousness.  That is, consciousness is a necessarycondition for recognizing
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 9, 2018
       
       
       
      Dear Group,
       
      A way that we can recognize what a thing is, is through consciousness.  That is, consciousness is a necessary condition for recognizing things.  Consciousness structures the thing.  The thing thus takes on its own conceived form and is subject to the imperfections of what things appear to be, but are not what they seem.  Consciousness thus exercises an experience, a being for itself.  This is an absolute negation, overcoming itself; that is, to have, in this cognitive sense, its essence in another.  The point is that since being for itself negates all other being, it negates its own self, simply because it is in the mode of negation, and that its own essence is to be found in the determinations of other things. This indicates that no determinate being is just for itself, but is dependent upon the characteristics of other beings.


      Regards,

      Bob Fanelli
       
    • bill.hord
      Bob, is consciousness something? Is your consciousness something? Is a sunset that seems red a thing that appears red to consciousness? Is there a scientific
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 10, 2018

        Bob, is consciousness something? Is your consciousness something?


        Is a sunset that seems red a thing that appears red to consciousness? Is there a scientific explanation for this appearing-red-thing? Isn't this appearing red a property of the singular red sunset, namely that it can appear red to some?


        "Ideality can be called the quality of the infinite; but it is essentially the process of becoming, and hence a transition – like the transition of becoming into existence. We must now explicate this transition. This immanent turning back, as the sublating of finitude – that is, of finitude as such and equally of the negative finitude that only stands opposite to it, is only negative finitude – is self-reference, being. Since there is negation in this being, the latter is existence; but, further, since the negation is essentially negation of the negation, self-referring negation, it is the existence that carries the name of being-for-itself." (SL, di Giovanni, 120)

        "First, being-for-itself is immediately an existent-for-itself, the one. 
        Second, the one passes over into a multiplicity of ones – repulsion or the otherness of the one which sublates itself into its ideality, attraction.
        Third, we have the alternating determination of repulsion and attraction in which the two sink into a state of equilibrium; and quality, driven to a head in being-for-itself, passes over into quantity." (SL, di Giovanni, 126)

        Reading sublation where you have negation works miracles.


        As a moment of the whole, any finite existence reflects (true) infinity and is for itself with other beings.


        Bill

        Everything speaks in its own way. (Bloom)


        This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly prohibited.

        From: hegel@yahoogroups.com <hegel@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of robert fanelli robertfanelli2001@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2018 3:12:43 PM
        To: Hegel Hegel; Chris Fanelli
        Cc: Brian 2 quinlan; Paul Castrataro; michael peliogrino; Cory; Darin Lee; gregory gregory; rob rob; rob; Hilary; Jayne Fanelli; Joe Colombo; kevin christiano; Mark Burrell; mike chappelle; gym teacher; shawn wood; todd cornish; Ted Humphrey; vinnie; Katherine
        Subject: [hegel] Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit Perception # 126
         

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        Dear Group,
         
        A way that we can recognize what a thing is, is through consciousness.  That is, consciousness is a necessary condition for recognizing things.  Consciousness structures the thing.  The thing thus takes on its own conceived form and is subject to the imperfections of what things appear to be, but are not what they seem.  Consciousness thus exercises an experience, a being for itself.  This is an absolute negation, overcoming itself; that is, to have, in this cognitive sense, its essence in another.  The point is that since being for itself negates all other being, it negates its own self, simply because it is in the mode of negation, and that its own essence is to be found in the determinations of other things. This indicates that no determinate being is just for itself, but is dependent upon the characteristics of other beings.


        Regards,

        Bob Fanelli
         


      • Alan Ponikvar
        In the first quite compressed passage Hegel is playing off the dual sense of a negation of negation. The first sense exhibits what he calls this immanent
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 10, 2018

          In the first quite compressed passage Hegel is playing off the dual sense of a negation of negation.

           

          The first sense exhibits what he calls “this immanent turning back” as a process in which what persists is paradoxically the vanishing of finitude.

           

          The second sense expresses what has been captured as existent which is being as self-referring which is then tagged as being-for-self.

           

          Being-for-self is the double sense of the negation of the negation in that it is a fixed reference to an infinite turning of thought upon itself.

           

          It is the motion at rest or the motion determined and thus given an intelligible designation, something that the motion as indeterminate or equivocal lacks.

           

          Unfortunately, “sublation” being poorly glossed by Hegel scholars is taken by Hegel skeptics as that point when Hegel miraculously pulls a rabbit out of his hat.

           

          • Alan

           

           

           

           

           

          From: hegel@yahoogroups.com <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, December 10, 2018 11:05 AM
          To: Chris Fanelli <fanellichris@...>; hegel@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: Brian 2 quinlan <bquinlan@...>; Paul Castrataro <comatunes@...>; michael peliogrino <consultmgp@...>; Cory <ctarp@...>; Darin Lee <dleet93@...>; gregory gregory <falon@...>; rob rob <fanelli20@...>; rob rob <fanelli20@...>; Hilary <hilarytarpenning@...>; Jayne Fanelli <jfanelli6@...>; Joe Colombo <josephcol@...>; kevin christiano <kchristiano47@...>; Mark Burrell <marktacit@...>; mike chappelle <mdchappelle@...>; gym teacher <Mgertner32669@...>; shawn wood <shawn.wood@...>; todd cornish <tcornish@...>; Ted Humphrey <tedhumphrey@...>; vinnie <vmazz1@...>; Katherine <wkbyphone@...>
          Subject: Re: [hegel] Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit Perception # 126

           

           

          Bob, is consciousness something? Is your consciousness something?

           

          Is a sunset that seems red a thing that appears red to consciousness? Is there a scientific explanation for this appearing-red-thing? Isn't this appearing red a property of the singular red sunset, namely that it can appear red to some?

           

          "Ideality can be called the quality of the infinite; but it is essentially the process of becoming, and hence a transition – like the transition of becoming into existence. We must now explicate this transition. This immanent turning back, as the sublating of finitude – that is, of finitude as such and equally of the negative finitude that only stands opposite to it, is only negative finitude – is self-reference, being. Since there is negation in this being, the latter is existence; but, further, since the negation is essentially negation of the negation, self-referring negation, it is the existence that carries the name of being-for-itself." (SL, di Giovanni, 120)

           

          "First, being-for-itself is immediately an existent-for-itself, the one. 

          Second, the one passes over into a multiplicity of ones – repulsion or the otherness of the one which sublates itself into its ideality, attraction.

          Third, we have the alternating determination of repulsion and attraction in which the two sink into a state of equilibrium; and quality, driven to a head in being-for-itself, passes over into quantity." (SL, di Giovanni, 126)

           

          Reading sublation where you have negation works miracles.

           

          As a moment of the whole, any finite existence reflects (true) infinity and is for itself with other beings..

           

          Bill

          Everything speaks in its own way. (Bloom)

           

          This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly prohibited.


          From: hegel@yahoogroups.com <hegel@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of robert fanelli robertfanelli2001@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2018 3:12:43 PM
          To: Hegel Hegel; Chris Fanelli
          Cc: Brian 2 quinlan; Paul Castrataro; michael peliogrino; Cory; Darin Lee; gregory gregory; rob rob; rob; Hilary; Jayne Fanelli; Joe Colombo; kevin christiano; Mark Burrell; mike chappelle; gym teacher; shawn wood; todd cornish; Ted Humphrey; vinnie; Katherine
          Subject: [hegel] Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit Perception # 126

           

          Unsubscribe

          It appears that you have subscribed to commercial messages from this sender. To stop receiving such messages from this sender, please unsubscribe

           

           

           

           

          Dear Group,

           

          A way that we can recognize what a thing is, is through consciousness.  That is, consciousness is a necessary condition for recognizing things.  Consciousness structures the thing.  The thing thus takes on its own conceived form and is subject to the imperfections of what things appear to be, but are not what they seem.  Consciousness thus exercises an experience, a being for itself.  This is an absolute negation, overcoming itself; that is, to have, in this cognitive sense, its essence in another.  The point is that since being for itself negates all other being, it negates its own self, simply because it is in the mode of negation, and that its own essence is to be found in the determinations of other things. This indicates that no determinate being is just for itself, but is dependent upon the characteristics of other beings.

           

           

          Regards,

           

          Bob Fanelli

           

           

        • bill.hord
          Probably varies. Bill Everything speaks in its own way. (Bloom) This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 10, 2018

            Probably varies.


            Bill

            Everything speaks in its own way. (Bloom)


            This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly prohibited.

            From: Joe&Anne <josephcol@...>
            Sent: Monday, December 10, 2018 10:44:13 AM
            To: bill.hord; fanellichris@...; hegel@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: bquinlan@...; comatunes@...; consultmgp@...; ctarp@...; dleet93@...; falon@...; fanelli20@...; hilarytarpenning@...; jfanelli6@...; kchristiano47@...; marktacit@...; mdchappelle@...; Mgertner32669@...; shawn.wood@...; tcornish@...; tedhumphrey@...; vmazz1@...; wkbyphone@...
            Subject: Re: [hegel] Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit Perception # 126
             
            How much gibberish can one stand?!

            Joe


            -----Original Message-----
            From: bill. hord <bill.hord@...>
            To: Chris Fanelli <fanellichris@...>; hegel@yahoogroups.com <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
            Cc: Brian 2 quinlan <bquinlan@...>; Paul Castrataro <comatunes@...>; michael peliogrino <consultmgp@...>; Cory <ctarp@...>; Darin Lee <dleet93@...>; gregory gregory <falon@...>; rob rob <fanelli20@...>; rob rob <fanelli20@...>; Hilary <hilarytarpenning@...>; Jayne Fanelli <jfanelli6@...>; Joe Colombo <josephcol@...>; kevin christiano <kchristiano47@...>; Mark Burrell <marktacit@...>; mike chappelle <mdchappelle@...>; gym teacher <Mgertner32669@...>; shawn wood <shawn.wood@...>; todd cornish <tcornish@...>; Ted Humphrey <tedhumphrey@...>; vinnie <vmazz1@...>; Katherine <wkbyphone@...>
            Sent: Mon, Dec 10, 2018 11:05 am
            Subject: Re: [hegel] Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit Perception # 126

            Bob, is consciousness something? Is your consciousness something?

            Is a sunset that seems red a thing that appears red to consciousness? Is there a scientific explanation for this appearing-red-thing? Isn't this appearing red a property of the singular red sunset, namely that it can appear red to some?

            "Ideality can be called the quality of the infinite; but it is essentially the process of becoming, and hence a transition – like the transition of becoming into existence. We must now explicate this transition. This immanent turning back, as the sublating of finitude – that is, of finitude as such and equally of the negative finitude that only stands opposite to it, is only negative finitude – is self-reference, being. Since there is negation in this being, the latter is existence; but, further, since the negation is essentially negation of the negation, self-referring negation, it is the existence that carries the name of being-for-itself." (SL, di Giovanni, 120)

            "First, being-for-itself is immediately an existent-for-itself, the one. 
            Second, the one passes over into a multiplicity of ones – repulsion or the otherness of the one which sublates itself into its ideality, attraction.
            Third, we have the alternating determination of repulsion and attraction in which the two sink into a state of equilibrium; and quality, driven to a head in being-for-itself, passes over into quantity." (SL, di Giovanni, 126)

            Reading sublation where you have negation works miracles.

            As a moment of the whole, any finite existence reflects (true) infinity and is for itself with other beings.

            Bill

            Everything speaks in its own way. (Bloom)

            This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly prohibited.

            From: hegel@yahoogroups.com <hegel@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of robert fanelli robertfanelli2001@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2018 3:12:43 PM
            To: Hegel Hegel; Chris Fanelli
            Cc: Brian 2 quinlan; Paul Castrataro; michael peliogrino; Cory; Darin Lee; gregory gregory; rob rob; rob; Hilary; Jayne Fanelli; Joe Colombo; kevin christiano; Mark Burrell; mike chappelle; gym teacher; shawn wood; todd cornish; Ted Humphrey; vinnie; Katherine
            Subject: [hegel] Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit Perception # 126
             
            Unsubscribe
            It appears that you have subscribed to commercial messages from this sender. To stop receiving such messages from this sender, please unsubscribe


             
             
             
            Dear Group,
             
            A way that we can recognize what a thing is, is through consciousness.  That is, consciousness is a necessary condition for recognizing things.  Consciousness structures the thing.  The thing thus takes on its own conceived form and is subject to the imperfections of what things appear to be, but are not what they seem.  Consciousness thus exercises an experience, a being for itself.  This is an absolute negation, overcoming itself; that is, to have, in this cognitive sense, its essence in another.  The point is that since being for itself negates all other being, it negates its own self, simply because it is in the mode of negation, and that its own essence is to be found in the determinations of other things. This indicates that no determinate being is just for itself, but is dependent upon the characteristics of other beings.


            Regards,

            Bob Fanelli
             


          • robert fanelli
            Joe, Thanks for your response.  At least you are reading it.  Excuse the pun, but I don t think you have the spirit of Hegel in your sights. However, it s
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 10, 2018
              Joe,

              Thanks for your response.  At least you are reading it.  Excuse the pun, but I don't think you have the spirit of Hegel in your sights.

              However, it's interesting how close you came to agreeing with Hegel when you referred to the ontology of the universe containing 'matter, energy, and information.'  This may easily be equated to Nature, Logos, and with a little stretch, Spirit itself.  Of course Hegel would add, that the universe also includes consciousness, and he would add, God not only in the mixture as modes of  determinate finite being, but well beyond as absolute Being.    I consider your comment to be one of considerable insight and its striking how similar it is to Hegel's main thesis.

              I have been studying the pros and cons of evolution and hopefully will have some comments to make, but I want to spend some more time on the various texts.  There are some missing enthymemes is some of the theses.

              If you wish, I will not send you anymore Hegelian analyses.  Please let me know.

              Regards,

              Bob






              On Monday, December 10, 2018 12:11 PM, "bill.hord bill.hord@... [hegel]" <hegel@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


               
              Probably varies.

              Bill

              Everything speaks in its own way. (Bloom)

              This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly prohibited.

              From: Joe&Anne <josephcol@...>
              Sent: Monday, December 10, 2018 10:44:13 AM
              To: bill.hord; fanellichris@...; hegel@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: bquinlan@...; comatunes@...; consultmgp@...; ctarp@...; dleet93@...; falon@...; fanelli20@...; hilarytarpenning@...; jfanelli6@...; kchristiano47@...; marktacit@...; mdchappelle@...; Mgertner32669@...; shawn.wood@...; tcornish@...; tedhumphrey@...; vmazz1@...; wkbyphone@...
              Subject: Re: [hegel] Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit Perception # 126
               
              How much gibberish can one stand?!

              Joe


              -----Original Message-----
              From: bill. hord <bill.hord@...>
              To: Chris Fanelli <fanellichris@...>; hegel@yahoogroups.com <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
              Cc: Brian 2 quinlan <bquinlan@...>; Paul Castrataro <comatunes@...>; michael peliogrino <consultmgp@...>; Cory <ctarp@...>; Darin Lee <dleet93@...>; gregory gregory <falon@...>; rob rob <fanelli20@...>; rob rob <fanelli20@...>; Hilary <hilarytarpenning@...>; Jayne Fanelli <jfanelli6@...>; Joe Colombo <josephcol@aol..com>; kevin christiano <kchristiano47@...>; Mark Burrell <marktacit@...>; mike chappelle <mdchappelle@...>; gym teacher <Mgertner32669@...>; shawn wood <shawn.wood@...>; todd cornish <tcornish@...>; Ted Humphrey <tedhumphrey@...>; vinnie <vmazz1@...>; Katherine <wkbyphone@...>
              Sent: Mon, Dec 10, 2018 11:05 am
              Subject: Re: [hegel] Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit Perception # 126

              Bob, is consciousness something? Is your consciousness something?

              Is a sunset that seems red a thing that appears red to consciousness? Is there a scientific explanation for this appearing-red-thing? Isn't this appearing red a property of the singular red sunset, namely that it can appear red to some?

              "Ideality can be called the quality of the infinite; but it is essentially the process of becoming, and hence a transition – like the transition of becoming into existence. We must now explicate this transition. This immanent turning back, as the sublating of finitude – that is, of finitude as such and equally of the negative finitude that only stands opposite to it, is only negative finitude – is self-reference, being. Since there is negation in this being, the latter is existence; but, further, since the negation is essentially negation of the negation, self-referring negation, it is the existence that carries the name of being-for-itself." (SL, di Giovanni, 120)

              "First, being-for-itself is immediately an existent-for-itself, the one. 
              Second, the one passes over into a multiplicity of ones – repulsion or the otherness of the one which sublates itself into its ideality, attraction.
              Third, we have the alternating determination of repulsion and attraction in which the two sink into a state of equilibrium; and quality, driven to a head in being-for-itself, passes over into quantity." (SL, di Giovanni, 126)

              Reading sublation where you have negation works miracles.

              As a moment of the whole, any finite existence reflects (true) infinity and is for itself with other beings.

              Bill

              Everything speaks in its own way. (Bloom)

              This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly prohibited.

              From: hegel@yahoogroups.com <hegel@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of robert fanelli robertfanelli2001@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2018 3:12:43 PM
              To: Hegel Hegel; Chris Fanelli
              Cc: Brian 2 quinlan; Paul Castrataro; michael peliogrino; Cory; Darin Lee; gregory gregory; rob rob; rob; Hilary; Jayne Fanelli; Joe Colombo; kevin christiano; Mark Burrell; mike chappelle; gym teacher; shawn wood; todd cornish; Ted Humphrey; vinnie; Katherine
              Subject: [hegel] Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit Perception # 126
               
              Unsubscribe
              It appears that you have subscribed to commercial messages from this sender. To stop receiving such messages from this sender, please unsubscribe


               
               
               
              Dear Group,
               
              A way that we can recognize what a thing is, is through consciousness.  That is, consciousness is a necessary condition for recognizing things.  Consciousness structures the thing.  The thing thus takes on its own conceived form and is subject to the imperfections of what things appear to be, but are not what they seem.  Consciousness thus exercises an experience, a being for itself.  This is an absolute negation, overcoming itself; that is, to have, in this cognitive sense, its essence in another.  The point is that since being for itself negates all other being, it negates its own self, simply because it is in the mode of negation, and that its own essence is to be found in the determinations of other things. This indicates that no determinate being is just for itself, but is dependent upon the characteristics of other beings.


              Regards,

              Bob Fanelli
               




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