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A schematic look at the opening moves of the SL

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  • thefearsome2000
    With the goal of taking a stab at a serious interpretation of the doctrine of Essence, I have been attempting to extract some regularities in the development
    Message 1 of 172 , Sep 30, 2014

      With the goal of taking a stab at a serious interpretation of the doctrine of Essence, I have been attempting to extract some regularities in the development that concern the basic terminology that unfold in the sections on Being, and Determinate Being. 


      If we have a look at the text from the table of contents, and we accept the goal of arriving at determinate being from pure indeterminacy, it stands to reason that we begin the SL without any given determinacy. 


      Unlike determinate and finite being which is defined by its relation to an other, being is pure indeterminacy, without relation to other, or itself.



      Being is pure indeterminate Immediacy.


      What I've noticed is that the significance of both the terms "immediacy" and "indeterminacy" crop up repeatedly in the development.  


      - In addition to seeing the term "immediacy" emerge with the term Nothing, we also see the term "immediacy" re-emerge with determinate being as such (and also again and again). 


      This re-emergence of the term "immediate" over and over again in the development of the SL is significant for one of Hegel's more famous terms, 'to sublate'.  In his explanation of the term 'to sublate', Hegel suggests that in addition to preserving, 'to sublate' also means to "remove from its immediacy" (see SL p. 107).



      "Indeterminacy" is also a term we see cropping up over and over.


      - In addition to seeing "indeterminate" emerge with the term Nothing, we also see the term "indeterminate" re-emerge with determinate being as such.  As we'll see, this is somewhat strange because it is described as determinate being that is indeterminately.


      What we can grow to expect is that when we arrive at "immediacy" or "indeterminacy" there will be a negation (or the removal of this immediacy).



      - "equal only to itself" being vanishes into nothing.


      We see the term "equal to itself" re-emerge again and again but it will start to take on more and more determinacy, for example as early as the 'something', Hegel begins to speak of a "self" of the development (see SL p. 115 and 116).  


      In contrast I have not found the term "vanish" again.  It seems to be reserved for the special indeterminate sphere of pure being. 



      -  Being, the indeterminate immediate is Nothing.



      Hegel leaves this above "judgement" in its one-sidedness, and let's the development play itself out.


      Nothing  - Nothing is pure indeterminate immediacy.


      So, again we have these terms "indeterminacy" and "immediacy", and we again see that as soon as it emerges there is a negation.


      These terms "immediacy" and "indeterminacy" also indicate that we cannot think of Nothing in relation to Being, that would in fact mean that Nothing would be mediated by Being. Hegel goes into great detail in Remark 1 on why Being cannot be thought in relation to Nothing. 


      The sheer absence of indeterminate being is indeterminately. Equal only to itself, nothing vanishes into being.

        

                                                                                                                                                                                                        

      Nothing, the sheer absence of determination, is Being.



      Here (and the same is the case with the proposition--'Being is nothing') the limitations of the form of "judgement" emerge. 


      In the proposition---'Nothing is being' an emphasis is placed on the identity, but the contrary proposition is equally true, 'Nothing is not being'.  The two equally true  propositions are unresolved and only take the form of an antinomy.


      The union being and nothing can only take the form of an unrest of incompatiblesBeing vanishes into nothing, and vice versa over and over again.           

                                                                                                                  

      - Now although we don't see the vanishing of indeterminate immediacies again, we do find the "unrest of incompatibles" over and over again in the development. For example, we see something and other alternate, and we see the alternation of being-for-other and being-in-itelf .


      - Being does not pass into Nothing, but has passed into Nothing 


      - Nothing does not pass into Being, but has passed into Being


      I notice that this use of the past participle is also used in the Essence doctrine to indicate "eternally past" or something like that.



      There is an "absolute distinction" between the two indeterminate immediacies.  


      We see the repetition of this term "absolute distinction" over and over again in the development, but like "equality with itself" it begins to take on more and more determinacy as the development proceeds. For example we see "absolute negation" with the emergence of the something, where Hegel describes it as a "negation of the negation", or a "negative unity with itself" (see SL p.115 and 116).



      But in the vanishing of Being to Nothing, and Nothing to Being there is no "abstract distinction" between the two.  This is in contrast where with "abstract distinction" (i.e. the first negation) we actually have a relation.


      In the "absolute distinction" between being and nothing it is as if "the first negation" and "the negation of the negation" are bound together in one.


      So with the absolute distinction, the two indeterminate immediacies are equally immediately indistinguishable.  


      Their truth is their absolute vanishing, the unity of the vanishing in Becoming.


      Becoming is a term that we see again and again, and it seems to be bound up with the term above described as "the unrest of incompatibles"


      Becoming  -  The vanishing that is the result of "absolute distinction"


      1. The product of "absolute distinction"


      - If pure being were not "absolutely distinguished" from nothing, pure being would 

      simply remain pure being, and the "absolute beginning" of the Science of Logic would 

      equally be an end.


      - If nothing were not "absolutely distinguished" from nothing, non-being would be frozen

      in the eternal being of nothing.


      Both of the above points will emerge again and again in the side to side, and to and fro development that is "the unrest of incompatibles". It also relates to the same point that I have made in the beginning of this post about "immediacy".  For example we find the same "indeterminate immediacy" in the form of being that is equally an end, in "determinate being as such", and also "reality". 


      In contrast we find the same "indeterminate immediacy" in the form of non-being with Negation.



      Whenever we have these immediacies, either in the form of being or non-being we can anticipate a removal of their immediacy (or a sublation).



      2. "abstractly distinct"


      - If pure being were actually "distinct" from nothing, both pure being and nothing would not be indeterminate, but instead  they would be very determinate, and yet we would have no resources to characterize the nature of their distinction.



      Being and Nothing are in the unity of Becoming only as vanishing moments.


      As "absolutely distinguished", both Being and Nothing then are in this distinction as a 

      unity with the other.  Or, each side of the "absolute distinction" is revealed to be in unity with other.



      Nothing vanishing into Being      [and]    Being vanishing into Nothing


      [the unity that is coming to be]         and        [the unity that is ceasing to be]                                                        


      With each side moving in different directions, these two unities interpenetrate and paralysis one another, settling into a stable result.


      So, here we have becoming resolving itself in a very particular way, where each side of "the unrest of incompatibles" forms a unity with the other side, and the movement of these two unities interpenetrates each other . 


      We see this "duplication of the unity" move again, and again in the development. For example with being-for-other, and being-in-itself on each side of something and other, where the interpenetration resolves itself into a stable result.


      What I find difficult though is that sometimes I will anticipate a move in the development by illicitly "positing" a move before it is actually posited by the development itself.



      I'll stop here and continue my current thoughts with Determinate Being.


      R

                                                              


    • stephen theron
      I have no difficulty with the absolute being form. What else could it be? Later Hegel identifies form with content, as indeed we find exemplified or approached
      Message 172 of 172 , Nov 16, 2014
        I have no difficulty with the absolute being form. What else could it be? Later Hegel identifies form with content, as indeed we find exemplified or approached in several of the "higher" concepts.

        No not some being but being, as we were admitting in our references to Heidegger, just for example again.

        "God is not being, God is freedom" (Berdyaev). here we have the contradiction involved in predication Hegel highlights. Every predicate denies its subject, though then of course we should rather say being is not being, being is freedom. Hegel indeed stresses that just freedom is the proper denotation of spirit, not just one of its identificanda (tp coin a term).

        Hegel states that the absolute idea is the absolute. it is  very significant that he does. (Enc. at the relevant section).

        Stephen.


        To: hegel@yahoogroups.com
        From: hegel@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:17:24 -0500
        Subject: RE: [hegel] The development from Determinate Being as such to the becoming of something

         

        You really cannot be this obtuse.

         

        The absolute idea references a discourse on method.

         

        It is not some being.

         

        There is a chapter in Essence entitled “The absolute” where Hegel tells us that the absolute is form.

         

        I know you want to believe that Hegel shares your opinion that the absolute is god and thus that the absolute idea is “the absolute”.

         

        But this is not Hegel. Nor have you had any success in your attempt to pin this on Hegel. (I say “pin this” because what you offer does not raise to the level of rational discourse.)

         

        Quite frankly, you should be embarrassed.

         

        You keep on making assertions that have no textual basis. You stand as a living testament to the closed mind of a dogmatist. And you do not seem to care one bit.

         

        You clearly enjoy living in your own bubble.

         

        -          Alan

         

         

         

        From: hegel@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hegel@yahoogroups.com]
        Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 6:26 AM
        To: hegel hegel
        Subject: RE: [hegel] The development from Determinate Being as such to the becoming of something

         

         

        Well, as you know, they do. The Absolute Idea is the Absolute. I would rather ask, why would Hegel believe it?

         

        Stephen.


        To: hegel@yahoogroups.com
        From: hegel@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 14:58:18 -0500
        Subject: RE: [hegel] The development from Determinate Being as such to the becoming of something

         

         

        The problem remains as it always has. You begin with an opinion about the truth that you bring to your reading of Hegel and then go about finding your opinion reflected in Hegel’s discourse when it clearly is not.

        I have no idea what relevance the quote from the Encyclopedia has to our discussion. Are you trying to suggest that the logical idea is god? Why would anyone believe that?

        As for the rest, it is a string of unsupported incorrect assertions. You clearly are unable to think the finite/infinite speculatively. So I will leave it be.

        -          Alan

         

        From: hegel@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hegel@yahoogroups.com]
        Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 7:44 AM
        To: hegel hegel
        Subject: RE: [hegel] The development from Determinate Being as such to the becoming of something

         

         

        "If God were not, I would not be, and if I were not, God would not be". I have no (philosophical) problem with this, do not find it unintelligible. My use of "mystical", echoing Hegel's, should not lead you in that direction.
        The circle this declares is at various with popular religious discourse, where "creatures" are routinely dubbed "contingent". For Hegel though everything is necessary, which is another way of saying, well it is the final philosophical clarification, that God and his decrees are one. As Hegel says, it is the business or task of philosophy to find necessity everywhere.  This is how we must apprehend logic's relation to both nature and mind., grasp the true nature of the progress, Hegel says, to the two "real departments":

         

        "Only let the progress not be misunderstood. The logical idea does not thereby come into possession of a content originally foreign to it: but by its its own native action is specialised and developed to Nature and Mind" (Enc. 42 add.).

         

        Now don't tell me you think he said that, assuming he did for now, just to keep his job. In effect, however, it confirms the Eckhartian thought of, for example, my being as necessary for God to be (though it is misleading, in the context of absolute subjectivity, just to call this an example, as if returning to acceptance of wholes having parts).

         

        I would guess my meditations re the absolute are quite as venturesome as yours.

         

        I concede that I have come closer to a grasping of the unity and seriousness of your thought.

         

        I am not deeply read in Heidegger but my impression so far is that there is a kind of common Catholic inhibition operative. Backhandedly this could illumine some of those remarks about medieval philosophy you cite. The clinging to the idea of the holy he got from Otto mainly is for me the main indicator here. Hegel has none of that. Nor does he accept the conception of a finite mind quite as you seem to do, I rather think. What is holy is separate from the profane and is therefore not infinite. Some highly placed religious leaders want to get round this by talking about an "ontological discontinuity" between God and creatures. I cannot conceive such a discontinuity except in the sense that the finite on its own is nothing (Hegel), i.e. being is not and is never finite, is rather ideal as found truly in the Idea alone. Now Heidegger both agrees with this and yet he does not, it seems to me so far. Yet it is quite right, I find, to point to the difference between being and beings, but this is really not more, as I indicated, than Augustine does.

         

        Hegel is the philosopher of freedom. I see no reason to question that if he thought what you think he must have thought, being at least as dogmatically blinkered as you find me, then he would have said so, as I have done throughout my philosophical career and would rather have become a taxidriver or something if I thought I could not do this, like any decent person then or now. Goethe managed it, why shouldn't Hegel?

         

        Stephen.


        To: hegel@yahoogroups.com
        From: hegel@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 16:58:25 -0500
        Subject: RE: [hegel] The development from Determinate Being as such to the becoming of something

         

         

        Speculatively, we only come to comprehend infinitude when we comprehend the ambiguity at the heart of finitude. Infinity is nothing other than the finite properly comprehended. Infinity is nothing other than the exposition of finite ambiguity. Or as Heidegger would say, philosophy proper is a comprehensive questioning that puts the being that questions in question. This is why Heidegger asserts that medieval thought is not philosophy but dogmatics, an inquiry into what is taken as the unquestioned ultimate being.

         

        So man is not a biological category. Man is that unique being that is self-questioning.

         

        The absolute as an idea is merely a logos, a discourse, on method. It is not a thought meant to identify some supposed ultimate being. In this way Hegel completes the modern break with the detour that philosophy took when it was employed by medieval Christian thinkers as a means of grounding a dogma. Hegel means to free the subject, not force the subject to be comprehended in light of some idea however “absolute” this idea might be conceived to be.

         

        To move from Being to Essence with comprehension requires that we cash out Hegel’s movement terms. This cashing out is not done within the text itself. Who or what is “returning to self” or “positing” or “presupposing” or “grounding” is in question. Are we talking about god’s thought? Are we talking about finite thought? Or are we not even speaking about a thinker for this thinking? Each of these alternatives have been proposed. That these alternatives have been proposed means that we who read Hegel recognize that the who or what of thought’s movement remains in question.

         

        Thought as absolute becomes a realm of inquiry when thought that regresses or circles is recognized to be more than a mere impasse leaving us with no way out. So, it is not “why exactly do we not have an infinite regress” as if this is meant to be a thought stopper. It is instead, “yes, it is because we have an infinite regress of finite thought that this regress as infinite is not merely bad but can be speculatively reconceived as true.” The regress is what first has to occur. It is the place of the true infinite as the true infinite is nothing more than a reconception of the bad infinity of the regress. The infinite regress is salutatory in that it blocks the quest of finite thought to think the infinite as some ultimate which it might grasp. The impasse means to block the theological impulse. The infinite as Hegel conceives it is not some ultimate being. It is this reconception of the thought process as it exhibits an impasse, exhibits a dialectic.

         

        The true infinite arises at the very point when finite thought becomes a question to itself when it finds itself caught in an inferential impasse.

         

        God is the whole of philosophy only for the medieval “philosophers”. But as Heidegger notes, a thinking that means to inquire into what is already taken as the truth before such inquiry takes place is not philosophy. So, for Hegel, “god” is not a philosophical term. It has no place within the speculative account unless one attempts as you never cease to do to equate “god” with the absolute idea. There is nothing in the speculative account that is improved or clarified by such a dubious replacement. If we went back and deleted all Hegel’s marginal comments about god in his remarks or introductions – recognizing that these throwaway remarks were nothing more than remnants from a superseded way of thinking employed simply so that he might be able to remain employed in his profession – nothing of substance would be lost.  As I have said before “god” does no work in a speculative account. He just shows up at the margins there given credit for what is not properly “his”.

         

        If Descartes marks the turn to the subject as the topic of philosophy, then Hegel liberates this turn from its obsession with absolute certainty, an obsession that is a shadow of the medieval obsession with absolute being. Thought that thinks truly is not thought that is certain. It is thought that turns upon – reflects upon – itself. It is a process and not some final resting place because man as the being that puts the beings into question remains himself always in question as a result. It is the questioning of this being, not the ultimate status of some supposed divine being that is absolute. With Hegel we are not done thinking. If Hegel is relevant then it is because our encounter with Hegel’s thought opens up an entirely new realm of what is in question that seizes our being.

         

        Over the course of a speculative exposition if one is seized by questions pertaining to god then these are questions for one whose thinking is oriented by theological concerns. So such a one can ask as you do if god falls away over the course of a speculative account. This would be a good question. But one cannot save god by taking Hegel’s absolute – a conception that has a precise speculative sense within the exposition – and equating it with “god”. Hegel’s absolute as it is employed in a speculative exposition has no resemblance to a divine ultimate being. So the proper answer to your question is yes, god does fall away. The how and why of this falling away is something that should focus your thinking.

         

        Over the course of the history of philosophy there has been an unfortunate tendency to vulgarize thought by locating the general categories in a region of being – a supersensible realm – of their own. So when we first encounter pure being in the Logic we are reminded of what pure being has meant in the metaphysical tradition. It has meant a pure being beyond the beings. It has served to indicate a divine being. This notion is immediately deconstructed by Hegel when he equates being with nothing. As we go through the Logic we can see that self-standing categories each in turn are brought back down to earth and out of the virtual realm that metaphysics once reserved for these thoughts. In effect, Hegel improves upon Kant by showing that the tendency of thought to employ reason beyond the bounds of sense is not so much unavoidable as it is the result of a misconception of how the thinking of categories in their truth actually takes place when thought is speculative.

         

        To liberate Hegel’s thought from the accretions of theology we can begin with Eckhart's "If God were not, I would not be and if I were not, God would not be". You call this mystical which I take to mean unintelligible since it appears to portend something we currently do not understand.

         

        Let’s translate this back into Hegel’s thought: “If the absolute were not, then I would not be, and If I were not, then the absolute would not be.” We have two thoughts as one.

         

        Speculatively, “if the absolute were not, then I would not be” needs to be conceived in light of Hegel’s absolute which marks that which is divided against itself. Hegel’s absolute is not that final thought that enables one to form a perfect whole but instead reveals a cut where one might be expecting to find the idea the completes the whole. Paradoxically, it is this failure to complete the whole that completes the whole. Or what completes the whole is what reveals the whole as incomplete. So what Hegel would be saying is that we are the beings that question our own being because what is absolute is a finite self that is able to confront itself as in question or as not settled in its being. We are self-comprehending when we conceive of ourselves as self-divided in this way.

         

        And speculatively, “if I were not, then the absolute would not be” indicates what we see throughout Hegel’s expositions: only what we bring about – the dialectical impasse – enables the absolute to emerge as the form of this impasse. The infinite is nothing more than what appears behind the back of finite thought as its own infinite movement as put on display as a dialectic.

         

        Hegel then replaces a mystery about a divine being with a way of finite thinking, a way that generates that which also encompasses that which does the generating. Only in this way do we have intelligible discourse about a being that both stands within and apart from the absolute, or stands within the beings in question and stands apart as the being that questions.

         

        You still seem to be stuck on what it means for thought and being to be one. This is not some metaphysical claim. As I indicated, it references the precise moment when finite thought finds itself caught in an inferential impasse as it exhibits a dialectic. You say you fail to get this point. Precisely! You are at a loss as to what to make of speculative thought, thought as it elicits a dialectic.

         

        When Hegel arrives at the absolute idea what has he come to? He has come to an account of thought as a dialectic, the very thinking that you are unable to think. This account of the process when thought becomes dialectical is the absolute idea. Since you are unable to understand what Hegel is up to you continue to attempt to make an unwarranted switch with no textual evidence to support this switch.

         

        Why do you do this? It is not just that you do not understand. You do this because you are not touched by philosophy. You do not put yourself in question by which I mean your belief that god is the truth is not something you are interested in examining. Again, you are at peace with your dogma; therefore, you are not touched by philosophy; you are not able to philosophize.

         

        So when Hegel engages in the process of disrupting common conceptions you, like most Hegelians, cannot make heads nor tails of what he is up to so you read Hegel as you would wish him to be read. You turn an account on method into the place where the divine appears. This would be a shameless obfuscation if it were not for the fact that we all do this to some extent. We each in our own way impose our own limitations upon Hegel, misreading him in the process. This is why Socrates had it right when he said wisdom is knowledge of our own ignorance. An encounter with Hegel’s thought is simultaneously an encounter with what should be but as of yet has not been put into question about our own natural habits of thought. To encounter true philosophy authentically is to grasp how philosophy means to alert us to how we are essentially questioning beings.  This is something Heidegger taught us.

         

        Philosophic thinking is quite distinct from common thought. That is why Hegel needs to name his way of thinking, calling it speculative. You are unable or unwilling to, or uninterested in thinking this difference. The difference between questioning the meaning of being and grasping being is profound. The recognition of this difference is what makes Heidegger the philosopher of the Twentieth Century. I wrote a long piece on this several months ago when Paul challenged anyone on this site to make this difference unintelligible. If one does not understand this difference then one cannot understand Heidegger.

         

        I conclude with your comment: “if we should find wondering to be the truth then we would fix it as the object of our wonder.” This is precisely what Heidegger does. He makes our questioning the matter in question. He sees the long history of metaphysic as the wrong turn away from such questioning, what he calls the forgetfulness of being as that which is in question. This being in question turns philosophy back to examining finitude as its proper topic, not some supposed ultimate infinite being.

         

        Writing more than a century after Hegel we can see the progress of man. Unlike Hegel, Heidegger did not need to dissemble about how thought about the divine poisons philosophic thought. Hegel did not have this freedom.

         

        -          Alan

         

         

        From: hegel@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hegel@yahoogroups.com]
        Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 7:48 AM
        To: hegel hegel
        Subject: RE: [hegel] The development from Determinate Being as such to the becoming of something

         

         

        I agree about the incorrectness of "valid".
         
        "a thought that remains absolute throughout" - that's just what I'm saying.
         
        I agree about speculative logic's distinctive feature.
         
        Hegel does (addressing your next point: "The obsession...") speak of an Advance: it's one of the final categories. But I don't see this as being tied to "the dictates of formal reason" particularly. I doubt there is such a thing, myself. Thus I would argue, have argued, that the so-called logical forms are actually arguments, to which all the other arguments thought of as coming "under" them are actually analogous, rather ("You might as well say...", L. Carroll/Dodgson).
         
        and it is certainly not a "progression of propositions" but of concepts, if anything.
         
        I agree with the next up to a "point"(!), would rather say the linearity is itself circular, or possibly spiral, in view of the Advance.
         
        not anything other than our own thought, agreed, but what is "our own thought"? According to Hegel it will include its own other, for a start, it is even infinite. We are exploring the infinite, presumably infinitely. I mean, in a Hegelian context the qualification is not reductive. We explore our own thought because our own thought is the Concept, the reality first named here as being (and then not-being, and so on).
         
        but you say "nothing more tan" and mention "man". This is a biological category, on the face of it. I am not sure how far man comes into it (thinking of Heidegger's "letter on humanism", for example). Or we must introduce a special account of man (e.g. who alone exists, etc.). If the absolute is an Idea, the Idea, then so is the subject, and there will be nothing reductive in that. Existence, like Thing, are categories transcended (aufgehoben) in Essence, and I think tsaying his is already a cash payment.
         
        Why is there no complete truth, as when you next write that it is nothing more than, etc. or must we say that the positing of the speculative is itself speculative, and why exactly do we not have an infinite regress there and would it matter if... I ask myself as well. Or, as Aristotle says, movement, like time, neither begins nor ceases. Is it Hegel who quotes that in "Absolute Knowledge", the chapter, or is it the translator?
         
        The anti-theological implication of the speculative are not only not obvious but are what theology demands and has even brought to birth, as Hegel rather acknowledges, I find.
         
        You don't annoy me (and what if?), not even when you add that I am only interested in Hegel insofar as he is interested in God. God is the whole of philosophy, Hegel virtually says, although he does not think "God" is a philosophical term. There is nothing reductive in getting to the heart of the matter (here philosophy) and staying there. Of course this is one with a care for freedom. Freedom, he says, is the essence of Spirit and not just one name for it.
         
        Berdyaev says "God is not being, God is freedom". I would rather say that Being is freedom, inasmuch as it is the Idea. I would also say that freedom is necessity (echoing the Logic). I am sure I am just as deconstructive as anyone when it comes to God. Such deconstruction is the essence of the mystical as Hegel explains (you might say deconstructs) it. "To what will you compare me?"
         
        In considering God there should be no bar to what is of "interest". We can just start with Nature and its identity in difference with absolute manifestation as Hegel outlines it, saying the Outside is the Inside, just for example. The question then becomes, does or does not God fall away in such a treatment? No, the absolute abides, whatever we call it, and it is necessarily personal or supra-personal, as Hegel praises Leibniz over Spinoza for seeing. We must then next ask, what are we understanding by "personal"? by "subject", as opposed to substantival or objective? my preference here is to stick close to the text. One thing that says is that god is not a "dark power" set over us abstractly. So what exactly is your and my relation to the absolute? what relations actually obtain. I think the text corresponds exactly to Eckhart's "If God were not, I would not be and if I were not, God would not be". What then am I? Hegel treats us at the end of the Encyclopaedia to an extended set of citations from Hinduism about Krishna, readily supplemented by the whole foregoing tripartite text.
         
        I think I read it as it should be read. Thought's being one with being is not merely anything. Why do you say that? Why this mereness? Though overcomes, sublates the various. You know that from the dialectic, the logic. Thought doesn't align with anything. thought brings forth, as forma dat esse if you like. But you don't like, you want to say. Yet to make your point you revert to the "understanding", which, Hegel says, is stupid or foolish (I forget which) in these matters.
         
        Despite my shotgunnishness here I appreciate your trying to understand me, as I do you. the Being beyond the beings is the opposite of the onto-theological tradition for Heidegger, his point being that being is not a being, placeable alongside the others. This being, Hegel says, is finally the Idea, just as it is mediately Essence, he says. So it is pointless for you speak of "pure being" as our immediate notion of an abstract being with which the logic begins and, Hegel says, with which alone science has to begin. Why is that? Only because this being turns out at the end to be the Idea. So of course there is a sense in which the Idea is not being but itself (cp. what I wrote above on Berdyaev's formula). But what Hegel is surely saying is that "this is it", the Idea is freedom, the whole with which every part is identical (Enc. 160, 161). This is what is, and so he could make entirely his own the Augustinian "it is not in some particular way, but it is, it is..." The advance, again, is fully circular. But of course we can present, as many mystics do, this absolute is rather a nothing, of which we have a knowledge that is a non-knowledge, etc.
         
        So your two paragraphs "The point... without determination" really don't signify, I find. Try again! Yes the truth of being is not some more refined notion of being, if you like. It is the Idea itself (you cannot/do not deny this is the truth of being specifically, as of course even non-being might be), not any idea that I have or form. In Chesterton's words, we are trying to get our heads into heaven, not heaven into our heads. The only thing is that on Hegelian principles the dilemma dissolves. "I in you and you in me", the Inside is the Outside, and so on. Still, there would be no point in geting heaven into your head if this were not equally getting your head into heaven, the philosophical Gottesdienst. Or what moves you to this Golgotha of the spirit? We must look fpor the unity behind differences of style. Nor am I pursuing apologetic here, which would be boring (for me too, I mean).
         
        Both Hegel and Heidegger are interested in what is, the latter especially or, rather, more explicitly. Or you mean that "the meaning of being" is distinct from grasping or "tasting" (Caputo) being. That could only be if you were thinking of something propositional, which seems wildly out of this sphere of discourse. Like you would distinguish philosophical thought from thought period (my suspicion). You would need to get free of that, if you have it.
         
        And so, in expounding Heidegger, you do come down to saying that "man", mind rather, is absolute after all. While if we should find wondering to be the truth then we would fix it as the object of our wonder, so there is no great gain here in the respect you intend. Again, the absolute idea is method, Hegel says, but why "nothing but", given all the rest that has been established along the way?
         
        Stephen.
         


        To: hegel@yahoogroups.com
        From: hegel@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:57:16 -0500
        Subject: RE: [hegel] The development from Determinate Being as such to the becoming of something

         



         

        If we work with words that have taken on their meaning within the frame of formal logic then it would be incorrect to call Hegelian derivations of categories valid since validity is merely a formal feature of thought that does not touch on the truth of what is being derived. Sound would be closer to what these derivations signify, but this too is inadequate as what is either valid or sound is fixed. Hegel’s categories are only fixed as one-sided. What they are in truth is exhibited when the inner difference of what is initially fixed dissolves this fixity in the infinite movement of thought.

         

        As to your point about the concept being “what is known in each of the categories” all the categories are operative regardless of where we are in the Logic. It is just a matter of thought’s attunement that alters. After all, we are talking about thought that is absolute. We are not moving out of one thought into another, leaving one thought behind as we take up another. We are simply refocusing our attention on a thought that remains absolute throughout.

         

        This simultaneity of seemingly opposed or distinct thoughts is the distinctive feature of speculative logic. It is what allows us to say that the infinite is the vanishing of the finite and not that which comes to replace the finite. Nothing is lost nor is anything gained. We may move but we do so as we stay put within thought that is absolute. We are simply moving within as thought as absolute reveals itself in all its complexity.

         

        The obsession that almost every commentator has with the logical progression as if we are on a journey with the absolute idea as the terminus and prius with every move representing a link in a rational chain that must be logically justified is to frame what Hegel is doing according to the dictates of formal reason for which reason is all about preserving truth as we move through a progression of propositions. I would like to suggest that the complexity is not linear with a thought grounding what is to come next. Instead, we being with thought situated within its own element. The complexity of the presentation can vary. The absolute is more like a fractal than a path, a fractal whose complexity alters depending upon how closely we choose to attend to the action. We are not examining anything other than our own thought. How deeply we wish to delve into what we do when we think reveals the absolute to be nothing more than where man is the quest of man to comprehend man as he is in his world. There is no complete truth waiting to be discovered. The truth is nothing more than this process of self-constitution. When thought is absolute, we are always on the way since it is this being on the way which marks the absolute character of our thought.

         

        The anti-theological implications of speculation should be obvious. I say this not to annoy you. I say this to remind you who are only interested in Hegel to the extent that Hegel is interested in god that Hegel’s interest in god is one with his interest in freeing human reason from its onto-theological bias. Hegel’s interest in god is deconstructive. Something tells me that such an interest would not really interest you.

         

        When I mentioned what I called the foundational thought of the Logic I knew that there would be some who would misread this thought – read it ontologically - as you do here. That is, the ontological reading suggests that thought being one with being is merely a matter of correctly identifying the various ways that being is being. Thought is one with being when it aligns with the ways of being. After all, this is how thought and being are one for the understanding. When I make a true statement about anything what I am showing is how my thought correctly aligns with what is the case.

         

        Now you seem to be suggesting that thought for all its roaming remains within the frame of being, not within the frame of the beings but within the frame of being as such. But being as such is pure being. And pure being is nothing. It is not the Being of the onto-theological tradition, the Being beyond the beings. It is this very metaphysical habit that Hegel deflates in his account of pure being. I have gone over this often enough. But then I doubt you have read or if you have if you remember what I have said. So once again, I expect you are at a loss as you try to make sense of what I am saying.  

         

        For Hegel, this foundational thought has to be comprehended speculatively which means that first we have to identify the precise point when thought and being are one. This is not the point when thought expresses being as a string of categories since each category is one-sided when expressed and dissolved when thought in its truth.

         

        This point when thought and being is one is the point when thought exhibits a dialectic. And a salient feature of a dialectic is that it exhibits the vanishing of being which vanishing is then fixed as a new determination, a new thought item that is, or has the immediacy of being. Hegel’s philosophy is about the truth of being, which is not some more refined notion of being any more than the absolute idea is some ultimate conception of being as such.

         

        As for being having no parts, this is a metaphysical relic. This is the thought deconstructed when Hegel takes up pure being, being without parts or without determination.

         

        For speculation, an interest in being is superseded by an interest in the significance or true import of what as an immediacy first appears as some thought that is just there, some dumb being. Hegel before Heidegger had already seen that the point is not to grasp what is but to grasp how we as rational beings actualize truth as significance, actualize a world that we nevertheless confront as given. It is the meaning of being that is the true dwelling of philosophic thought. What is absolute is this peculiar being that is man who is able to put being into question and in the process show how truth arises out of this ability of thought to wonder.

         

        It is the wondering and not what we for the moment might fix as the object of our wonder that is the truth. The ways of thought that reflects is the absolute idea. The absolute idea is nothing but method.   

         

        -          Alan

         

         

        From: hegel@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hegel@yahoogroups.com]
        Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 8:05 AM
        To: hegel hegel
        Subject: RE: [hegel] The development from Determinate Being as such to the becoming of something

         

         

        It seems to me that what Alan touches on here is that every category of the logic, from being to the Idea, is, so to say, valid. The contrary of this would be a system where every step to the Summit simply serves as a ladder to be kicked away once used and this is in fact how we often, validly, want to speak about Hegel's logic.
         
        This, in turn, however, illustrates sublation, which I discussed in my previous, how it is both a putting by and a taking up. What makes this apparent contradiction true is that the Idea, as is stated at the beginning of the third section (Encyclopaedia I first think of), on the Concept, is what is known in each of the categories and never left.
         
        This is what is explained by Alan's singling out of the foundational thought of the logic that thinking and being are one. For, since being has no parts therefore every valid thought, every category, is being, just as the very first and poorest category, being, is being, finally disclosed as the idea and the absolute, which is the absolute idea.
         
        Stephen
         


        To: hegel@yahoogroups.com
        From: hegel@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 04:27:17 -0500
        Subject: RE: [hegel] The development from Determinate Being as such to the becoming of something

         

        This quotation from Hegel is interesting for a number of reasons. I think it leads to some interesting thoughts about the nature of an absolute beginning, a beginning that does and yet also does not recollect that out of which it has emerged. 

        We see Hegel making this point about a fresh start often enough both in the Phenomenology and in the Logic. In the Phenomenology it can serve to remind us that there is no natural consciousness that has as it were an institutional memory of all that has gone before to bring it to where it might presently find itself. However, in the Logic the thought that is developing is absolute. Moreover, Hegel begins his discussion of Dasein with a series of reflections about how determinate differs from indeterminate being. So whatever this fresh start might mean to indicate, it does not seem to indicate that we who are situated absolutely between what has already and what is yet to occur have forgotten the proximate mediation that has brought us to this new point of departure.

        And yet, even as preserved this mediation is in some sense also suppressed. The fresh start with a new immediacy is not to stand in a first negative contrast to its prior mediation, in this way immediately showing itself as a mediated immediacy. No, the fresh start is with an immediacy, not with an immediacy comprehended as a mediated result. So we begin again with Dasein. We do not begin again with Dasein as it stands in contrast either to pure being or to becoming. 

        This raises the obvious question: why and by what right is this fresh immediacy delimited in this way? After all, if we are following the gradual development of thought as absolute, wouldn’t it make sense to view each moment as it stands within this development? Moreover, if the foundational thought of speculative logic is the notion that thinking and being are one and remain one over the course of this development – in this way enabling we who would think absolutely to recognize that what we think reflects how we have just thought – then it would seem that this fresh start leaves us with an interesting puzzle.

        We have to be able to explain the reason for the difference between the recollection of an already enacted mediation that accounts for how speculative truths emerge and the suppression of this memory as we take up this new truth now posited as an immediacy.

        What I would like to suggest is that what has happened is that with the inversion of thinking (the dialectic of becoming) into a new thought (becoming as a new determination) what for thought is a recollected thought activity taken as the truth now becomes the inner truth of an immediately posited new thought content. That is, an activity temporally rendered as a present recollection of a past happening now becomes a content spatially pictured as the inner true being of the new immediacy now rendered as a surface or appearance. In effect, with the inversion we move from thought activity back to thought content.

        Or we might say that when thought is absolute we are not simply watching a performance of thought for an external observer (some reader who wishes to know the truth according to Hegel) we are in the midst of thought’s own inverted world where we are to have these breaks when the how of our thinking really ceases to be about what has happened and comes to be about what is presently in view as a content that as self-standing conceals or has internalized the prior mediation.

        What is interesting here is that with each fresh start we have a new set piece – something new to think – that can be thought according to our natural habits of thought or can be thought speculatively. If we begin to talk about this new determination then we must mean to bring something out that the mere word does not immediately express. We mean to reveal this concealed inner. The intellect taken as either common or speculative takes this inner as more real than the apparent reality of what is initially evident. It takes this inner as the truth.

        The common intellect seeks to abstract out the essence of what is first only immediately apparent to thought. This is what Hegel refers to as the absolute power of the understanding to get at the essence of things. 

        But the essence that is now inner in a speculative logic – the truth that any further thought would mean to reveal – is that thought and being are one as thought itself reveals the essence to be the absolute form of its own activity as it thinks this new thought, in this case, Dasein.

        The difference between how the understanding and speculation comprehend Dasein is based upon what I mentioned to be the premise of speculation that the understanding rejects: thought and being are one in the thinking. Or thought activity as the truth will show itself to be the new thought content.

        So while the understanding is indifferent to the fact that something is also other (taking this as a mere surface show of thought that is unessential to the true inner being of something) speculation will be focused on this surface show that has something and other vanish into one another in turn.

        This is why, for example, we do not really get at the essence of democracy as a mode of governing by distinguishing it from other modes of governing. We have to provide the specific difference. Only then do we think that we understand what democracy is. However, if we were to speculate about democracy then we would be seeking differently. We would be seeking to reveal the inner antagonism – the inner difference – that sustains democracy and gives it its life. We would seek to bring out how what democracy is not actually is an essential moment of what democracy actually is.

        How we frame our inquiry is all-important. If one seeks that feature that binds a democratic polity then one will be in search of some abstract essence. However, if one seeks to uncover the antagonism that sustains a democracy then one’s attention will be differently attuned. There does not seem to be a neutral point of view with respect to this inquiry into the essence of democracy. In either sense, one would seem to have to know before one knows.

        However, these two ways of framing also represent two ways of knowing. Those seeking binding essences assume such essences must exist because democracy must be coherent since it has shown itself as self-standing. Those seeking an inner antagonism have the potential to mean to know in an entirely different way. They do not seek the ideal essence of democracy; instead, they seek to uncover what is sure to transform their common understanding of democracy. They seek to reveal their own ignorance by uncovering the antagonism within society that is responsible for the illusory coherence, in this way seeing everything as if for the first time.

        So while the seekers of a binding essence simply seek to find what accounts for what they already know, the seekers of the inner difference seek to transform their knowledge. From the point of view of speculation, the understanding does not really know the appearance for which they seek an essence since the speculative search means to change how the world appears. To take another example, it is like the difference between our attempt to understand the human psyche before and after Freud. With Freud what we are attempting to comprehend has been transformed.

        I have strayed a bit. I guess this is my way of saying that maybe I should take a look at Laclau’s book.

        -          Alan

         

        From: hegel@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hegel@yahoogroups.com]
        Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 12:15 AM
        To: hegel@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [hegel] The development from Determinate Being as such to the becoming of something

         

         

        Hi Alan,

         

        You say: "One of the major shortcomings of your reading is that you use terms without having a clear understanding of what Hegel actually means when he uses these terms. It never hurts to remind you and anyone else who may be reading this (is anyone else reading any of this?) that “absolute” has a precise speculative sense, a sense you are unaware of. And because you are unaware of this sense, you really do not understand what Hegel means by an absolute beginning. "

         

        First of all just to say that I am reading what is going on here. I am participating less due to a time I have taken to read and study a bit about other authors than Hegel, namely, at this point, Laclau's great book, "On Populist Reason". I mention it to recommend people to check it out. 

         

        However I have not stopped entirely with Hegel even if these days I am more with the PhG than with the SL and so I have thought about this notion of absolute beginning a little while ago and I want to make a brief remark about the direction I am taking.

         

        By absolute beginning, it seems to me, Hegel must mean something like a beginning out of nothing, from which what so begins is only as its immediate identity to itself. 

         

        On this light we can see how pure being enacts a two-folded absolute beginning, in what I will dare to call a speculative show: pure being not only is immediately identical to itself as it is also immediate identity to self, itself. This means that whenever we talk about the pure being of whatever we are talking about the immediate identity of whatever with itself, that is to say, its abstract identity with itself and thusly its unilaterality.

         

        I also argue that every transition from a speculative recollection of an impasse to a new concept there is a moment of an absolute beginning, that is to say, a nothing from which the new concept is something more that the recollection of the former's impasse - a something more which decisively entangled with that its origin it nonetheless will show a destiny of its own with the virtue of retro-acting over that its origin taking it to where, being shown necessary, is actually so only mediated by it.

         

        For an example of this absolute beginning in a transition I refer to Hegel's words about Dasein:

         

        "Its mediation, becoming, lies behind it; it has sublated itself and determinate being appears, therefore, as a first, as a starting-point for the ensuing development."  

         

        I don't have my book here with me and so I refer this quote to:

         

        Parag.191 @

         

         

        Regards,

        João.

         

         

         

         

         


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