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- Sep 26John, yes, "we are told."But it is not hubris to acknowledge that my "life" isn't life, and the conclusion of my "life" isn't the conclusion of life. There's an equivocation here that deserves attention. Nor does this mean that my life "falls away into nothing." I can render it as nothing (one way is to assume that it must be a mere bare particular, that, when it is not, is not).We can render it as nothing -- this is faith. In other words, I recognize your points as religious doctrine.
Hegel's view is that our true beyond is the immanent beyond of freely becoming ourselves (in this world).
Nietzsche seems to me beside the point here. Perhaps I'm wrong, but this reference seems to me to want to belittle us both.BillThis email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly prohibited.From: hegel@yahoogroups.com <hegel@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of John Bardis jgbardis@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
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What Bill says here is interesting. Self-consciousness really does see itself as infinite. Or, as he says, it has itself as its end. That it has to die is not really acceptable to it. But this repugnance to a well defined end could be called a bad infinite.The "true infinite" of a human life is the simple fact that it has a beginning, middle and end. This, at any rate, is Nietzsche's doctrine of eternal return--the fact that a human life (as we see especially in the case of Jesus) has a beginning, middle and end. This life might, in itself, seem to simply fall away into nothingness. But in God's eyes it contains lengths and depths, infinitudes, undreamed of by the "understanding".And, really, for us not to accept our finitude is sin--hubris. This finitude defines who we are. This life of ours with its beginning, middle and end is, we are told, that which is judged by God.This finitude, this beginning, middle and end, is our "true infinitude".But, really, our beyond, alien to ourselves, we find in the fact of the resurrection. But that is probably something much beyond the possibilities of comprehension of "philosophy". This concept, though, is part of Hegel's philosophy.John-----Original Message-----
From: bill.hord bill.hord@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
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Sent: Thu, Sep 26, 2019 12:27 pm
Subject: Re: [hegel] The monstrous death of God
What makes the "death of God" as the "sublation of finitude" "monstrous ... huge, gigantic, colossal, frightening, mighty, enormous, shocking, amazing, atrocious, [and] excessive" is that self-consciousness is infinite (in the sense, minimally, that like life it has itself as its end). The "ungeheuer" quality is due to this "death" taken as placing the end of self-consciousness in a beyond, alien to itself.
The finitude of human beings is a frequent, even ubiquitous, theme here, but I think not a reflection of Hegel's actual views. I don't agree with Stephen Theron about many things, but I think we agree in some sense about this.BillThis email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly prohibited.
From: hegel@yahoogroups.com <hegel@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Mary Malo reading_for_meaning@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
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Eric,I think we should focus on the concept, not subjective preference in translation, which ultimately requires us to read entire texts strictly in the original language. How would other translation choices affect the concept of the death of the God-man as the sublation of finitude? This death is all these words.Thanks,MaryOn Thursday, September 26, 2019, 10:38:49 AM CDT, 'Eric v.d. Luft' ericvdluft@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Studying a philosopher in translation is OK as far as it goes, but doing
textual criticism of a philosopher without referring to the original
language is wrongheaded, futile, indolent, and often just plain stupid.
I imagine that the term "monstrous" which you all are discussing in this
thread is really "ungeheuer," which, besides "monstrous," can also mean
"huge, gigantic, colossal, frightening, mighty, enormous, shocking,
amazing, atrocious, excessive." Perhaps you should focus on that.
FWIW,
E.
Eric v.d. Luft, Ph.D., M.L.S.
Owner, Gegensatz Press
North Syracuse, New York
<www.gegensatzpress.com>
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