- Sep 23Additionally, you'll notice in the last sentence alone a wealth of concepts!Mary
On Monday, September 23, 2019, 05:57:32 PM CDT, Mary Malo reading_for_meaning@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Paul,The conceptual determinations of the divine idea are very interesting. The passage below indicates that Christ's death isn't in itself a moment of the divine idea but rather it's the "supreme finitization" and "pinnacle of finitude" which are philosophical, conceptual moments of the divine idea."But the highest limit, the supreme finitization, is death, and this human being experienced death.. This invests the death of Christ with this more precise significance: As the seal of his teaching, as what befits it, his death is morally, formally grand, but it is not a moment of the divine idea. It is the latter under the aspect that death is the highest pinnacle of finitude. If the unity of divine and human nature is to be envisaged in one present individual, then incarnation, as the immediate existence in the form of finitude, constitutes this aspect just as much as does the immediate existence, the divestment of the universal, of the divine—but a divestment of itself such that it still is in this divestment, not like the external world over against consciousness—this is nature in the perspective of finite purpose. It is this immediate existence, inasmuch as it is the divine idea become subjective; it portrays the unity of the divine and the human to itself therein and it is at the same time the cleavage, the other-being." - begins p. 124
Thanks,MaryOn Sunday, September 22, 2019, 03:51:17 PM CDT, Paul Trejo petrejo@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com> wrote:In response to the Sat21Sep2019 post by Mary Malo:Still reading inside Hegel's LPR 3.(1827), I will offer my personal take:> Hello Paul,>> Here's another occurrence of "monstrous" which follows the first on page 125.>> > "...It is precisely Love that is the consciousness of the> > identity of the Divine and the human, and this finitization> > is carried to its extreme, to Death.Excellent, Mary, let's stop here for a moment. It seems to me that only a Theological reader can understand what Hegel means here. I want to unpack it for the Humanist reader. Hegel says that "Love" sees the identity of God and Humanity. He defines Love rather clearly on page 276, saying that, "Love is a distinguishing of the Two, who nevertheless are absolutely not distinguished for each other." Love is Two in One, and a One which is also a Two. This dialectic is the very key to Love -- and to God.Yet we must ask -- what's Death got to do with it?> > "Thus here we find an envisagement of the unity of the> > Divine and the human at its absolute peak, the highest> > intuition of love...Here Hegel says that with Love we can grasp the highest possible unity of God and Humanity. Love is the very identity of God and Human.> > "It is a self-conscious activity, the supreme surrender of> > oneself in the Other, even in this most extrinsic Other-being> > of Death, the Death of the absolute representative of the> > limits of Life.Here Hegel says that Love means our giving ourselves fully to the Other, even unto Death -- that is, unto the very limit of Life itself. True love is loving somebody to death; and also being loved to death. "Till death do us part," is the old wedding phrase.> > "The death of Christ is the vision of this Love itself; not Love> > merely for, or on behalf of others, but precisely Divinity in> > this universal identity with the Other-being, Death..The unity of Christ with God and both with Love itself, goes beyond the deepest Human Love that ends in Death, because with God and Christ, their Love doesn't end with Death. The great negation of Life is Death, yet for God (and for Christ) even the negation of Death itself is sublated -- or as Paul says, "swallowed up" by Christ (1 Cor. 15:54).> > The monstrous unification of these absolute extremes is Love> > itself -- this is Speculative intuition!"Here Hegel calls the Unity of God and Death "monstrous," and yet continues to maintain the dialectical Truth of that Unity. It clearly challenges common sense.This sublation of the absolute extremes (God and Death) is the very definition of Love. According to Hegel, this is the very intuition of Speculative Philosophy. Hegel's dialectic has never appeared more Mystical -- or more Logical -- than here.> After my revisiting posts #44693, #44704 and #44722 this> evening, I wonder if you're willing to begin a conversation> about why Hegel calls Christianity the consummate,> revealed religion.>> Kind regards,> MaryYes, Mary, I'm very willing to begin such a conversation here. I note in starting, that the Biblical phrase about Death being "swallowed up" (1 Cor. 15:54) is yet another way to express the phrase, "Consummate."Warm regards,--Paul - << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>
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