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- Aug 4Great stuff, for which one is grateful. It seems to throw light on the puzzling idea that against infinity all offence is infinite, just to take one aspect. Yet how does this offence differ from abstract finitude itself, as religion teaches it does, or seems to thus teach? The key lies in the word "abstract" maybe.Papa Doc, Stalin, Hitler, Kim il Sung (father of the present North Korean leader), Mao se Tsung, Gadaffi etc., "the world's most evil men", according to a present TV series? Hardly.Stephen Theron.From: hegel@yahoogroups.com <hegel@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of John Bardis jgbardis@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 02 August 2019 18:54
To: hegel@yahoogroups.com <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [hegel] 'What is real is rational and what is rational is real.'Yes, really it was WWI that was the end of the dream of Western liberalism. America got into the war late and was little effected by it. But the numbers of people dead from England and Germany and France--it was death on a scale never before seen.WWII and the holocaust were simply a seconding of what had already happened.It was the end of moral judgments.People like to see themselves as completely righteous in every way and find fault with Hitler and Stalin, etc.But any moral judgment should begin with ourselves.This is how Hegel more or less concludes the Phenomenology of Spirit. All actions are ultimately questionable. No action is completely pure in every regard. Therefore the so-called beautiful soul simply doesn't act at all. He only judges the (always less than good) actions of others. And this judging, then, is his own action--an action as questionable as any other.All that is left is forgiveness--the forgiveness of the beautiful soul for the always less than correct agent--and the forgiveness for the beautiful soul himself for the unbearable stink of his self-righteousness.In the two world wars and the holocaust we saw ourselves as we truly are--simply and solely in need of forgiveness. This was the rationality of it.John-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Trejo petrejo@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
To: hegel <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Jul 26, 2019 1:27 am
Subject: Re: [hegel] 'What is real is rational and what is rational is real..'
Hi João,
What is "rational" about the Holocaust is the fact that Human Society emerges from the Swamp of Evolution, and suffers History as a slaughterhouse of War and Slavery, on top of Natural curses.The fact remains that 9 million people will die from starvation in the year 2019 alone.
The fact remains that for the past 10,000 years, until 250 years ago, Chattel Slavery was practiced in every nation on Earth.
The fact remains that half a million people are homeless in America -- and most of us see them in our cities.
The fact remains that 1/3 of all people will get cancer sometime in their lives.
The fact remains that Death is ubiquitous, and comes for each of us.Most of Human Society has been a "vale of tears" -- "To Be or Not to Be -- that is the question!"
How can Hegel regard the Reality of the Holocaust as "Rational?" The explanation is surely not that Hegel advocated suffering, or liked it.
Rather, Hegel was aware of the History of Suffering. Hegel compared History to the image of Christ on the Cross, bleeding and writhing in agony.
Yet why would Hegel say that this Reality of Agony is "Rational?"The explanation is that Hegel honestly looked at History in the eye. Hegel frankly acknowledged the Suffering of Reality and the Reality of Suffering. That is the Necessary First Step in dealing with it.
What can Science do to predict Natural Disasters, instead of reacting to them?What can Science do to cure disease?What can Science do to prolong Life?What can Science do to help better educate our children?What can Science do to prevent wars?What can Science do to reduce crime?What can Science do to alleviate the suffering that we honestly acknowledge?
What Hegel meant, in my reading, is that Reality is Understandable -- so that we can figure it out -- so that we can develop Sciences to deal with it.
Hegel was advocating Science.
The Holocaust stands as a milestone of Human Suffering. This is a stark Reality of Human History.
We can Understand it. That's the point. So we can take Dialectical steps to begin to deal with it.All best,--Paul
--------------------------------------------------------------------Hi Bill,There is a dialectical inversion of sorts brewing in your point: the absence of rationality of that which is not rational is its rationality.This would mean that what is real of the Holocaust, what is rational about it, is its irrationality.
Regards,
João. - << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>