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- Aug 2Hi Paul,Yes. Nonetheless I was putting more focus in the side of the Jewish people, who were convicted to death for being Jewish. It is an immediate conviction as it gives its subject absolutely no concept of the possibility, even in principle, of negating such determinateness. The irrationality is this perspective, of reducing a rational form - a people - to an impossible form. Of course that on the other end, as you well point out, the nazis made the same reduction towards themselves as this was the frame under which they set their principles, the principles from which they conceived the form of self-consciousness, individually or as a people, which is also to say, the form of reason.Regards,João.
---In hegel@yahoogroups.com, <petrejo@...> wrotHi João,All right, this is interesting. Let's take it sentence by sentence:> Reason, of necessity, presupposes reflective self-determination,> which implies the infrastructural form of self-diremption as a means> to have itself as its own object, we could say, of being subject and> substance, for itself.
Yes, João, I agree that Reason does -- among other things -- exhibit a Self-diremptive structure. With this, I agree, Reason makes itself its own object -- Subject and Object.> A self-consciousness, a people, insofar as they actualize this same> form, for the same purpose, of explicit self-determination, are rational> forms.
Well, João, this seems to identify only those people who have enjoyed the Light of Logic from Aristotle. Granted, today that amounts to more than a billion people -- yet the world will soon have 8 billion people. What about them? Are they, as Kant averred, "potentially rational" because they are human beings? Let us stipulate with Kant.> The reduction, therefore, of a self-consciousness or a people to its> genes, to its race, to a purely organic determinateness, from which> the people or self-consciousness cannot separate itself at all, is the> reduction of the form of reason to a shape where it cannot [be read]> at all, where its infrastructural form - aforementioned - is impossible;> in fact more than reduction we should say destruction of the form of> reason.
That is a complex idea, João. Let me try to unpack it. It seems to me that you are speaking about something like the Third Reich, like the Nazi era, and a doctrine of a Master Race.If so, then you're making a distinction between a Master Race and Reason itself -- since Reason requires Reflection -- a Self-Othering -- while a Master Race will brook no Other.This is what makes a Third Reich "irrational" in your idea. Did I get it?> The active destruction of the form of reason leads to the> destruction of its subjects, because they are the same.>> Regards,> João.
Thus, João, if a society succumbs to a Master Race paradigm, and so loses its claim to Reason, then it cannot long maintain its existence in Reality -- because Reality is Rational.Did I get your meaning?All best,--Paul-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------On Thursday, August 1, 2019, 10:23:30 PM CDT, vascojoao2003@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
"It seems to me, João, that the Holocaust is irrational because it exhibits human beings going completely berserk -- in yet one more instance of a horror which occurs with some regularity. War; genocide; violent destruction on massive scales -- these are the context."
Hi Paul,This is the natural way of seeing it, and, natural as it is, it has a reason to be. We should abhor these behaviors without having to need speculative justification. Having said this, I submit a line of thought aiming at the logic of the irrational.Reason, of necessity, presupposes reflective self-determination, which implies the infrastructural form of self-diremption as a mean to have itself as its own object, we could say, of being subject and substance, for itself.A self-consciousness, a people, insofar as they actualize this same form, for the same purpose, of explicit self-determination, are rational forms.The reduction, therefore, of a self-consciousness or a people to its genes, to its race, to a purely organic determinateness, from which the people or self-consciousness cannot separate itself at all, is the reduction of the form of reason to a shape where it cannot bread at all, where its infrastructural form - aforementioned - is impossible; in fact more than reduction we should say destruction of the form of reason.The active destruction of the form of reason leads to the destruction of its subjects, because they are the same.Regards,João. - << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>