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- Nov 15, 2018To understand Pakistan, one must be able to live there and swim in the passions of that somewhat paradoxical state which celebrates Mohammed Ali Jinnah, who was a complete atheistic secular modernist if there ever was one, as the father of that nation, and yet has theocracy as its system. It calls for a different mindset.There are two trends in Islam one that is largely Shia, is about education, highly evolved thinking and elitism that leads to a representative democracy. The second, Sunni, is of commitment to the poor, bare faith, Sufism and a truly democratic trust in the ordinary person's judgment. Given the broad structure of the consciousness, the law has a hard face and what are seen today as primitively violent punishments, even akin to lynching. Yet, there is often a chance offered to the victim or the one who is offended by the criminal's act to condone and forgive the latter, and this can lead to mercy even in the face of a death sentence. (There is a beautiful film by Kiaorstami, a truly great Iranian film maker, called Close Up, which looks at this judicial process in the case of false impersonation). For this mercy to occur, the one offended must be an individual who isn't swayed by political passions.What happened to Asia bibi is perhaps an extreme distortion of a trend due to the extreme politicization of the issue of religion.SrivatsOn Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:32 AM R Srivatsan <r.srivats@...> wrote:This, I too cannot understand. However, I also don't live in what is called an Islamic 'theocratic' state. In India, the laws are secular -- except to mitigate the effects of caste prejudice, where in the name of democracy, specific Hindu caste practices (like untouchability) are forbidden. However, the practice of the law, the modes of reading evidence, passing judgment, etc., all often tend to revert to the cultural background of judges -- reminding one of Benjamin Cardozo's adages, "The great tides and currents which engulf the rest of men do not turn aside in their course and pass the judges by."In addition, social practices and beliefs are recalcitrant in their persistent misuse of the law to add injury to insult in case of caste atrocities.But this doesn't mean all is lost. There are many legal and bureaucratic practices that stun you by their commitment to a secular democratic life.SrivatsOn Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 6:24 AM 'Stephen Cowley' stephen.cowley@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com> wrote:I appreciate the information. It is hard to understand the passions involved. I see no reason for trying to convert a neighbour being a “charge”, let alone justifying a death sentence. Momentary anger would seem a more appropriate response to the alleged slight.Stephen CowleySent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 8:27 AMSubject: Re: [hegel] Hegel and the rule of law in PakistanDear all,I have just heard from some one who followed the Asia bibi case, that the issue is something very different from missionary work. Apparently, it is well known that in Pakistan, caste takes the form of religious difference. That caste is an issue should be easy enough to understand since Pakistan and India were one nation 60 years ago, and while Islam (or Christianity for that matter) are egalitarian in their preaching, cultural practice in all the religions draws in the worst aspects of the Hindu caste system in these parts of the world.In Pakistan, most of the oppressed castes are have converted to Christianity. So the upper/'lower' caste divide is one between Muslim and Christian. When you are Dalit, all social forces work to dupe you of any property you may have since being Dalit doesn't allow you to own land or immovable property. This process can and does occur through strange distortions of appeal to the law by the oppressors: including false charges of blasphemy (in Islam), of sexually assaulting upper caste women (In India, famously)....After much searching, my colleague found out what her crime was: Asia bibi is a Christian whose job was to clean drains and toilets. During some festive function, she served drinking water to a Muslim in a glass she used -- being untouchable. This perceived insult and the attendant caste resentment that the privileged feel in these parts of the world, coupled with all the other different processes that deprived her of property in one way or another, came together and the false charge that was made against her was that she tried to convert her neighbors.So she isn't a missionary, and the problem isn't one of Islam. She is a dalit in a Muslim country that is mired in the Hindu caste cultural practice of untouchability inherited from ancient India.This seems to be the true story.SrivatsOn Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 4:55 PM stephen theron stephentheron@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com> wrote:So do I,Stephen.From: hegel@yahoogroups.com <hegel@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Stephen Cowley' stephen.cowley@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 02 November 2018 17:41
To: hegel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [hegel] Hegel and the rule of law in PakistanI usually keep my hobby horses off this list, but I’ve been following the story of Asia Bibi in the press. She is a Christian lady who was apparently sentenced to death in Pakistan for blasphemy after an argument over a bowl of water in the course of which she attempted to preach the Gospel to her neighbours. After eight years in solitary confinement, she has been released by the Supreme court there:The connection with Hegel is that Hegel upheld the rule of law against fanaticism of various kinds in Europe. I know that western philosophy is (or at least was) taught in some cities in southern Pakistan. Now that the judges are being threatened by politicians and religious leaders, the inheritance seems to be at risk. This seems as significant to me as some of the other current affairs from the Indian sub-continent discussed on this list, which seem to have blown over.I hope that things turn out well for our sister Asia.Stephen Cowley--R Srivatsan
Anveshi Research Centre for Women's Studies
2-2-18/2/A Durgabai Deshmukh Colony
Hyderabad 500 007
Office Phone: +91 40 27423690
Mobile: +91 94404 80762, +91 77027 11656
Home Phone +91 40 2773 5193--R Srivatsan
Anveshi Research Centre for Women's Studies
2-2-18/2/A Durgabai Deshmukh Colony
Hyderabad 500 007
Office Phone: +91 40 27423690
Mobile: +91 94404 80762, +91 77027 11656
Home Phone +91 40 2773 5193--R Srivatsan
Anveshi Research Centre for Women's Studies
2-2-18/2/A Durgabai Deshmukh Colony
Hyderabad 500 007
Office Phone: +91 40 27423690
Mobile: +91 94404 80762, +91 77027 11656
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