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43022RE: [hegel] Hegel's Dash

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  • Alan Ponikvar
    Nov 9, 2018

      These as with most passages in the lecture on religion talk about the god as a representation for religious consciousness.

       

      What might be true of god as represented is just because it is a representation not a true manifestation of the speculative absolute.

       

      • Alan

       

      From: hegel@yahoogroups.com <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2018 12:12 AM
      To: hegel@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [hegel] Hegel's Dash

       

       

      In response to this Thu08Nov18 post by Stephen Theron: 

       

      > ...The generation of the Son, in Trinitarian theology, is 

      > precisely eternal, ever in act...

      > ...never in the past or falling back in that sense, despite

      > the "begotten of the Father before all worlds" of the Creed. 

      >  ...The Father is this fathering relation, by the Augustinian-

      > Thomist account....

      >  

      > Stephen Theron:

       

      Right, Stephen -- Hegel says precisely this in his LPR3, for example, when Hegel says:

       

      "God's creative role is not an Actus 

      that 'happened' once.  Rather, what

      takes place in the Idea is an Eternal

      Moment, an Eternal Determination 

      of the Idea." (Hegel,  1827, LPR 3,

      ed.  Hodgson, p. 275)

       

      There Hegel says that the Creation of the Cosmos (or as Boehme says, the Son) is not just one more moment in the stream of consecutive moments of time.    The Creation is not some mere Actus in that ordinary sense.   Instead, God is the Absolute Idea, and the Creation is the Eternal Moment -- the Eternal Now.

       

      This means that the Creation (the Son) is also the Eternal Division and Definition (Determination) of the Eternity of God.   Hegel gets this Mystical and Trinitarian grasp of God from Jacob Boehme first, and then recognizes how a perfected, Kantian Dialectic could grasp it.

       

      It is precisely this modification of Kant's Dialectic that gives Hegel's Dialectic its power.   Thus, too, Hegel's criticism of Kant's critique of Anselm's Ontological Proof reveals its profundity.   To imagine the Idea of God as somehow devoid of the Creation is bone-headed (my term), because it tries to imagine God as some straw-dog argument.

       

      On the contrary -- as Anselm taught 800 years before Hegel -- to grasp God adequately one must grasp God as Being, yes, but also as Creative.   Hegel says.

       

      "God is the Creator of the world.  It 

      belongs to God's being, God's essence

      to be the Creator.  Insofar as God is not 

      the Creator, God is grasped inadequately."   

      (Hegel,  1827, LPR 3, ed.  Hodgson, p. 275)

       

      There Hegel underscores Anselm.   To grasp the concept of God adequately requires some logical skill.   God, to be God, must be the Creator.   Otherwise, one misses the concept entirely.

       

      All best,

      --Paul

       

       

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      On Thursday, November 8, 2018, 1:22:50 PM CST, stephen theron stephentheron@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

       

      Ah, then I misread you.

       

      No, not over time. The generation of the Son, in Trinitarian theology, is precisely eternal, ever in act, never in the past or falling back in that sense, despite the "begotten of the Father before all worlds" of the Creed. That is a figure and has to be, or do you imagine a moment when that took place? That would anyhow be Arianism. Now you may find this weird but it is not provenly self-contradictory (this expression maybe appears to you (or me) pre-Hegelian!). The father is this fathering relation, by the Augustinian-Thomist account, if I can trust myself in this difficult area.

       

      So there are no phases to this generation (itself not free of figure, all the same), as, as you say, Hegel well appreciates, no phases to God or revelation, which God is (Hegel), at all, the beginning is contained in the end and vice versa. This revelation, all the same, is differently suited to people at different cultural levels. This, I find, is the sense of Hegel¡s "true reason world".

       

      No doubt all these positions are finite and will serve their turn in theological discourse down the ages, all the same. This unfortunately can give rise, from the side of organised religious life, to confusion between the true and the opportune, with which philosophy can have, it seems to me, nothing to do. Thus Ontologism, the 19th century version of Hegelianism best known then at Rome, was rejected as "not safe for teaching" and later propositions taken as expressing "ontologisms" , e.g. by Rosmini, were "condemned" up into the 1880s (Giacomo Rinaldi, whose work I admire, accuses me of "unpardonable ignorance" for asserting this but I can give the primary source)..

       

      Stephen Theron. 

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