... thanx everybody for your answers to this my serious question.

regards - Jürgen H.

 

The key distinction between a formal and speculative logic is that the latter is dynamic and always in the process of transforming itself. It is no accident that Hegel loves Heraclitus.

 

As for the god quip, “god”, “before”,  “creation”, and “world” are all meant metaphorically. There is no god doing anything to bring about what happens in the Logic. The self-thinking derivation is something we as thinkers are able to generate. There is nothing left for a supposed god to do.

 

Moreover, once one understands speculative reason the notion that god thinks can be called into question.

 

• Alan

 

From: hegel@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hegel@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 7:56 AM
To: hegel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [hegel] Re: "God is logic"

 

 

For myself I'll just say that the "before" is metaphorical and has to be so (representational). This happens throughout Hegel's writings as it must to any speculative or mystical (silly word in many ways) writer condescending to use language. But he does not cease to protest against it.

He might have written, "God's thoughts in logical priority to creating the world". It is then striking that the definiendum appears in the definiens and, what's more, must do so. "Prior to" on its own would not be sufficient.

 

These thoughts, he elsewhere says, are themselves the world's structure, or similar. The act of creation, as it is called, furthermore, must itself be logically symbolised, so to say, in a way that excludes any change, as temporal, in God. Peter Geach, for example, has done this, but I am not sure I can recall it correctly just now.

 

Stephen.

 

---

From: hegel@yahoogroups.com <hegel@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of wmdepot wmdepot@... [hegel] <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 25 January 2018 10:44
To: hegel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [hegel] Re: "God is logic"

 

 

... what about Hegel's word that The Science of Logic is "God's thoughts before creating the world" ... ? Would you think that this is metaphoric speech ?

regards - Jürgen H.

 

Am 24.01.2018 um 02:37 schrieb 'Alan Ponikvar' ponikvaraj@... [hegel]:

 

One could imagine that in an alternate world Hegel might have written something like what Whitehead writes here. There clearly is a family resemblance. There is a similarity.

 

So, the mystery is why didn’t he? Why didn’t Hegel simply declare to the heavens in language similar to Whitehead’s that he is talking about god?

 

What got in Hegel’s way?

 

Well, the most plausible answer is that his philosophy got in the way. Hegel did not insert god into his logical discourse because this discourse was not meant to be a discourse about god.

 

So, there is no mystery to be solved. God is absent because logic has nothing to do with god.

 

• Alan

 

 

From: hegel@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hegel@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 7:07 PM
To: hegel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [hegel] "God is logic"

 

 

Whitehead's concept of God is quite similar to Hegel's.

 

So for Hegel the three moments of his theology correspond to the three moments of his system.. God before the creation of the world corresponds to the Logic. God as incarnate corresponds to Nature. And the union of the two, God as Spirit, corresponds to Spirit. This is Whitehead's view of God. So on page 346 of _Process and Reality_ he writes:

 

"The universe includes a threefold creative act composed of (1) the one infinite conceptual realization [i.e.., Logic], (2) the multiple solidarity of free physical realizations in the temporal world [i.e., Nature], (3) the ultimate unity of the multiplicity of actual fact with the primordial conceptual fact [i.e.., Spirit]."

 

In regard to the first moment, this has to do with the statement that "God is Logic". On page 343f Whitehead writes:

 

"Viewed as primordial, God is the unlimited conceptual realization of the absolute wealth of potentiality [i..e., God is Logic]...But, as primordial, so far is He from eminent reality. In this abstraction He is deficiently actual--and this in two ways. His feelings are only conceptual and so lack the fullness of actuality. Secondly, conceptual feelings, apart from complex integration with physical feelings, are devoid of consciousness in their subjective forms.

 

"Thus, when we make a distinction of reason, and consider God in the abstraction of primordial actuality, we must ascribe to Him neither fullness of feeling, nor consciousness."

 

So this is just as Hegel says that God before the creation is an abstraction, because God is eternally creative. So when we speak of God as Logic, which is God before the creation of the world, God in this abstract form obviously has neither feeling nor consciousness.

 

Whitehead continues:

 

"God [as primordial] is the unconditioned actuality of conceptual feeling at the base of things; so that, by reason of this primordial actuality, there is an order in the relevance of eternal objects to the process of creation."

 

So, then, God as Logic is the conceptuality at the base of things, just as the Logic is the conceptual base of Nature and Spirit.

 

Whitehead continues:

 

"God's unity of conceptual operations is a free creative act, untrammeled by reference to any particular course of things. The particularities of the actual world presuppose it; while it merely presupposes the general metaphysical character of creative advance, of which it is the primordial exemplification."

 

So, then, as unconditioned by anything outside itself, God as Logic is infinite.

 

On page 345 Whitehead writes:

 

"God has a primordial nature [i.e..., Logic] and a consequent nature [i.e., Spirit]. The consequent nature of God [Spirit] is conscious; and it is the realization of the actual world in the unity of His nature, and through the transmutation of His wisdom.. The Primordial nature [Logic] is conceptual, the consequent nature [Spirit] is the weaving of God's physical feelings upon His primordial concepts [Logic].

 

"One side of God's nature [Logic] is constituted by His conceptual experience. This experience is the primordial fact in the world, limited by no actuality which it presupposes. It is therefore infinite. This side of His nature [the Logic] is free, complete, primordial, eternal, actually deficient, and unconscious.

 

"The other side [Spirit] originates with physical experience derived from the temporal world, and then acquires integration with the primordial side. It is determined, incomplete, consequent, fully actual, and conscious."

 

On the final page of the book, page 351, Whitehead makes a further distinction between Spirit of God and Spirit as it is in the world. He writes:

 

"There are thus four creative phases in which the universe accomplishes its actuality. There is first the phase of conceptual origination [Logic], deficient in actuality, but infinite in its adjustment of valuation. Secondly, there is the temporal phase of physical origination, with its multiplicity of actualities [Nature]. In this phase full actuality is attained; but there is a deficiency in the solidarity of individuals with each other. This phase [Nature] derives its determinate conditions from the first phase [Logic]

 

"Thirdly, there is the phase of perfected actuality [Spirit], in which the many are one everlastingly, without the qualification of any loss either of individual identity or of completeness of unity.. In everlastingness, immediacy is reconciled with objective immortality. This phase [Spirit] derives the conditions of its being from the two antecedent phases [Logic and Nature].

 

"In the fourth phase, the creative action completes itself, for the perfected actuality passes back into the temporal world, and qualifies this world so that each temporal actuality includes it as an immediate fact of relevant experience.

 

"For the kingdom of heaven is with us today. The action of the fourth phase is the love of God for the world.. It is the particular providence for particular occasions.. What is done in the world is transformed into a reality in heaven, and the reality in heaven passes back into the world. By reason of this reciprocal relation, the love in the world passes into the love in heaven, and floods back again into the world. In this sense, God is the great companion--the fellow-sufferer who understands."

 

Whitehead concludes the book with an allusion to Nietzsche's eternal recurrence:

 

"We find here the final application of the doctrine of objective immortality. throughout the perishing occasions of life of each temporal creature is the transformation of itself, everlasting in the Being of God. In this way, the insistent craving is justified--the insistent craving that zest for existence be refreshed by the ever-present, unfading importance of our immediate actions, which perish and yet live for evermore."

 

So this is, to begin with, what "God is Logic" means--but also a very brief indication that God is, indeed, much more than Logic.

 

John