- Sep 18, 2014No, but the infinite mind has you. That's the point, whether you have an infinite mind or not and of course you do. the idea of a finite mind is straight oxymoron. if your mind were finite you could never believe or think that it was. In religion, mind's indinity is asserted in relation to an opening to grace yet, as Hegel teaches us, what is outside is inside.
Stephen.
To: hegel@yahoogroups.com
From: hegel@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 21:13:21 -0400
Subject: RE: [hegel] Elevation (Axis & Coin)There is no such thing for Hegel as an infinite mind within his system.
God is at times characterized this way. But this is god for religious consciousness.
You and I do not have infinite minds.
- Alan
From: hegel@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hegel@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 6:49 PM
To: hegel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [hegel] Elevation (Axis & Coin)Getting back to the points you were making. If we mark a point on a sphere or spinning coin, at a particular time and mark its starting place, we can trace the movement of that point as a circle as the coin rotates on its axis. What the point does is move away from its starting place and then returns to it. In this sense it is an unchanging (resting) change (restlessness). It is the same movement Hegel attributes to Spirit/God, that posits itself as different and then returns from that difference to itself, thereby establishing its own identity. - Will
What is very relevant with this is that when thinking returns to where it begins, it has traversed its distinctions and recollects or traces this circuit. The non-being of this finitude, of making distinctions, is both the end and beginning. That infinite mind is its own resting restlessness and distinctionless distinctions may help us transition to Essence, as Absolute necessity. Spirit is the positing of determination and distinction (finitude), and essence is this circuit as recollected. If Idea doesn't take this arduous journey and trace/recollect itself, it has no essence and thus no reality. Returning from difference is nevertheless and necessarily determination which is the work of Spirit. When the point (subjective in-itself opposing itself) returns to where it began, it is now objective or for itself. Together, infinite restlessness is object for subjective resting infinity.
Best,
Mary
On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 2:25 PM, "Will Mellon willmellon@... [hegel]" <hegel@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Mary,
We have to be careful here. We can call it the Coin Test for Kantian philosophy.
Kantian philosophy is called by Hegel the philosophy of reflection. The ego is taken as absolute and its internal subjectivity is the arena in which reality is reflected and dealt with. He also calls this subjective idealism. When a Kantian thinks of a coin he sees it as perspectives or 'respects.' In other words, he only grasps it by external reflection in which the coin is "for himself." Hegel calls this knowledge for self the vanity or conceit of knowing. It makes someone feel important but it cannot give us the truth.
The Hegelian, on the other hand, recognizes the coin as it is "in and for itself" as a unity in difference. It is the same situation as for a magnet in which two poles (polarities) are united. The otherness of the other is respected in and for its own self. He doesn't consider it according to his external perspective or reflection but determines its content according to its own being, in relation to its own concept.
Hegel does not discard Kantian reflection, as he finds all philosophy is an organic unity at different stages of development, but he sublates it within his absolute philosophy so that the Organic Whole or Absolute Truth itself has reflection within itself or is Subject as much as Substance. In order to avoid confusion sometimes Kantian reflection is spelled differently from Absolute reflexion. The Absolute has its own being in and for itself, and as the Absolute Necessary Being (sum of all possibilities or contingencies) it is the source or creator of all contingent being and Nature, including finite mind or spirit.
Mind comes from Mind, Spirit comes from Spirit. Materialism cannot explain how mind comes from matter, but Hegel's Absolute that is Substance as Subject, or reflected in itself and for itself, gives a rational explanation for where Mind comes from.
The Kantian denies his own M(Other) from which he comes as a mediated, not immediate being. This radical otherness must be accepted and comprehended in its proper medium of otherness. Scientific knowledge or the proper Concept of knowledge requires this type of knowing. The finite ego is not left out, but he is also sublated in the Absolute as an ideality, as is the fate of all finitude in the Infinite or Absolute.
The philosophy of reflection is finite understanding, which grasps truth only in its particulars or parts, which it then tries unsuccessfully to unify. For speculative philosophy, the truth is only the whole - the organic whole in the sense of being both its process of developing and the result of that development.
Just to add a word about the mathematization of science, mathematics is a formalism, a tool that the knower applies instrumentally to the known. In the Phenomenology, Hegel explains how this instrumentalism distorts knowledge or makes it impossible to arrive at truth. Mathematics also suffers the problem of being conceived as true apart from its proof, and therefore cannot satisfy Hegel's criterion for science of the organic whole.
Further problems it cannot resolve: its severe limitations Godel has shown in his Incompleteness/Inconsistent Theory, and the chaos it leads to in practical application (it cannot solve an n-body problem for n>2) has led to the complete downfall of deterministic science.
Kant felt that Life could not be dealt with by science since it involves an internal teleological principle inaccessible to experiential observation. Hegel does not consider science to consist merely of observational experience, but to be essentially a rational system that needs the concept of Life to make sense of its observations.
Getting back to the points you were making. If we mark a point on a sphere or spinning coin, at a particular time and mark its starting place, we can trace the movement of that point as a circle as the coin rotates on its axis. What the point does is move away from its starting place and then returns to it. In this sense it is an unchanging (resting) change (restlessness). It is the same movement Hegel attributes to Spirit/God, that posits itself as different and then returns from that difference to itself, thereby establishing its own identity.
Its identity (rest) is not a static but a dynamic (living, restless) identity - an identity in difference. Infinity is the movement that posits the finite as its determinations and then returns these predicates back to itself, as in the speculative sentence. If S is the subject and P is the predicate, to state the proposition S is P is to lose the subject in the predicate. With the speculative reversal the predicate is brought back to its proper place as a characteristic of the subject. The finite determinations in which the infinite is expressed seem to have a being of their own but are then sublated and brought back to that to which they referred, which is a self-conscious Subject or Identity and not a mere formalistic movement. Thus it is really the Identity of its identity and difference.
From: "Mary josephson45r@... [hegel]" <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
To: "hegel@yahoogroups.com" <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [hegel] Elevation (Axis & Coin)Hi Will,
I suppose it's not really necessary to spin the coin in order to perceive its axis. Our casual glance at the coin already includes a previous turning of the coin. Most coins have their value printed on the reverse, so when we use the coin, typically we've already learned its value; already spun it. What's essential to thought is that both sides are necessary.
The sphere on an axis is a great example since it includes the necessity of each as well as including the idea that the restlessness of infinitude (distinctions) is greatest the furthest away from the axis of infinitude at rest. Hegel's fondness for inversion and electromagnetism are evident here, Coulombs law perhaps.
There is one infinitude with an internal difference of with and without distinctions. Infinitude is a force indifferent to its distinctions. The most distinct, that furthest from the axis of stillness, is the most restless but just as essential as any point of distinction in the sphere, as well as its distinctionless axis.
Regards,
Mary
On Monday, September 15, 2014 1:59 PM, "Will Mellon willmellon@... [hegel]" <hegel@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Hi Mary,
The first time I read Hegel's example of the spinning sphere I was struck with the contradiction it represented of an object that could be both at rest and in motion at the same time. All the planets, including the Sun have this rotational-stillness as well, if we consider them at a fixed point in their orbits and cosmic positions. The idea of virtual Spin is also associated with certain elementary particles, related to angular momentum and statistical properties. It reminded me of Hegel's maxim that everything is contradictory.
In all these case opposing determinations are held in a unity. This is unity in difference. I think of the coin in the same way - not as an either/or but as 'both' - a duality or difference that is yet a unity. Hegel is fond of the magnet as an example of this. To set a coin spinning on its axis would make it contain a double contradiction of rest/motion and duality/unity.
We notice that Being and Nothing as separated identities are merely abstractions that only achieve their actuality as contradiction in the unity or relation of Being and Nothing, which necessarily can only be called vanishing. The unity of the resting axis and moving sphere is called spin. And so on. When finite and Infinite are united we should get a unity in difference that is called the true Infinite that contains both.
As I understand it, it was this idea of the true Infinite that Hegel was driving at in the Phenomenology when he gave the example of the spinning sphere. It was a necessary idea to establish before the next step to Life, which is also certainly a unity of its different members. Science, as employing the method of finite understanding, can only go so far in its attempt to explain Life in terms of its differentiated parts or molecules. At a certain point it just has to stop. It cannot go further in its reductionist methodology to grasp the whole, the identity in difference that only Reason comprehends.
The Understanding can only achieve a catalog of the parts and its sum. But the whole is more than the sum of its parts. The unifying, integrating or organizing principle is lacking for the Understanding. This is thus the limit of Understanding. The finite Understanding is not unlimited - it is after all finite. There has to be a place for Reason to step in, beyond or more comprehensive than Understanding.
Only the immediate, the contingent finite can be apprehended by Understanding. Necessity can also be inferred inductively by the Understanding, but only deductive Reason can posit the finite. The members or molecules of an entity do not together compose a living organism. As Kant concluded, the whole posits its members as much as the members reciprocally cause the whole.
When we read a book, we apprehend its alphabetical letters first, but the book was not composed by simply bringing letters together. The idea of the author came first, and then the letters appeared. In the same way, Life is the existing Idea. Its molecular constituents do not come first but as a result of the Idea. Understanding reveals the organism only in the order of of our acquaintance *ordo cognicendi" and not the order of its essential ontology "ordo essendi." The former is the limited process of finite Understanding, the latter of true Infinite Reason.
I will stop here before this gets too long.
From: "josephson45r@... [hegel]" <hegel@yahoogroups.com>
To: hegel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [hegel] Elevation (Axis & Coin)Will, if the coin were spinning on a table, infinitude would be the axis as well as both sides of the coin. The axis is the still point, itself at rest as the supercession of distinctions, while the distinctions which appear in the rotating sphere are the restless infinitude. The coin by itself as a whole still poses an either/or problem, but the coin in motion provides an axis which itself is unmoved. The restless infinitude, the union of finite and infinite, is represented by both sides of the coin in motion as a sphere, while the resting infinitude without distinctions is the axis on which the infinitude with distinctions rotates. Taken together they are a whole, the Absolute. - Mary
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