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Mordred - Judas - Snape

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  • Hans Andréa
    Dear Friends, I have discovered an article in an obscure magazine ( N.R.O. ) of 1946, which I have found really helpful in understanding the figure of Mordred
    Message 1 of 10 , May 15, 2006
      Dear Friends,
       
      I have discovered an article in an obscure magazine ("N.R.O.") of 1946, which I have found really helpful in understanding the figure of Mordred and Judas, and hence Snape. The article is called The Knights of the Round Table and was written by an author who called himself simply "J.v.R."
       
      This article is clearly about absolute liberation as I have been writing about it for the last 21 months. I would like to quote large parts of it, but before I do so, I would like to summarise what I've been saying about Harry Potter and liberation.
       
      I'm aware that all this must be totally amazing for many people who haven't heard of it before. To those people I'd say: read post No. 1 which explains why this group was set up.
       
      The basic premise is that the human being we are was once perfect, divine and absolutely indestructible in any way. Through a process called the Fall, the divine human being by his actions chose to go a path which led to our present state: severely flawed, limited, not in any way divine, and subject to disease, death, and, especially, evil. The good news is that the downward process can be reversed, and every seeker can go back to his former state of harmony with the Original Spirit which created the Divine Life. This does not mean a long journey to another universe, but the reconstruction of the perfect, divine and absolutely indestructible human being we once were. Divine Life is a state of being, not a place.
       
      Another very basic premise is that the Original Spirit, Tao, or God, continuously calls his children back to him, but because of our materialistic aims we don't hear it. One of the ways God calls us is to send us vivid stories which resonate very powerfully in the collective unconscious. These stories are totally symbolic and they describe how we can reverse the downward spiral into an upward one. To put this in their symbolic language: they teach us how to tear down the old temple (the fallen human being) and build it up again in three days (stages).
       
      Those who wish to understand the real intent of Harry Potter, no matter what religion they belong to, should see that they are a temple in which the Original Spirit wishes to live. However as the Spirit is perfect, it cannot live in an impure, temporary hovel, and so this must be pulled down and replaced by a divine temple of the utmost beauty, glory and indestructibility. The plans are present within us; they cannot be destroyed. This is what Harry Potter is really about. And I have the impertinence and the cheek to assert that this is the aim of every sacred scripture, ever sacred myth, legend, fairy tale and epic. God works through his children, and so throughout the millions of years humanity has been on earth, constant efforts have been made to pass to humanity powerful stories of the return to the Original Spirit . One of these is the New Testament, another is The Alchemical Wedding of Christian Rosycross and the most powerful one of all as far as many modern people are concerned is Harry Potter.
       
      To be able to understand the symbolism, the most important thing to keep in mind is that all the characters are symbols of forces that act within the human being. I recently stated that it's important to see the human being not as a body with life, but as a living force field which inhabits a body. When the body is destroyed the force field just continues, although it does change after a while.
       
      And so what I'm saying is that all the characters in the New Testament, in The Alchemical Wedding, in the Greek legends for example, and in Harry Potter symbolise forces or influences which act within the human being who wants to rebuild his divine temple which is potentially present in his own being. Only with this in mind will you be able to understand what I'm going to say now.
       
      The author begins his article The Knights of the Round Table by saying that the origins of the legends about King Arthur and his knights cannot be traced. They were passed on by bards and troubadours and later were turned into epic poems or tales. Such a method is, of course, open to constant adaptation and change. People who do not understand the symbolism can change the story to make it more spectacular, more sensational, or adapt it to the times, or to current events.
       
      The author then tells us that what this type of ancient myth proves is that humanity has always needed a saviour, a hero who has descended from the eternal and divine life to liberate people from the world of uncontrolled emotions and suffering.
       
      This explains why the hero archetype of the collective unconscious is the strongest one of all, as CG Jung says.
       
      This need is expressed by millions of people throughout the millennia, and it is answered by God, because He does not forsake the works of His hands.
       
      The myth of the Round Table tells us of Arthur or Artus, the radiant figure who governs the centre of his circle of knights. He was the son of Uther, and it was said of him that he was brought up in obscurity - just like our Harry. His kingship was foretold, just as a prophecy was made about Harry (and Jesus!), and of course Arthur pulled a sword out of a stone, while Harry pulled the sword of GODric out of his hat.
       
      And Arthur comes to live amongst us, raised by Merlin, the symbol of the Original Divine Human Being. And he has 12 victories: he is surrounded by 12 heroes. The 12 surrounding the one is the symbol of the completeness of the sacred mysteries which express the heavenly human being in his totality.
       
      This 12 is the same as "the 12 shew breads in the temple - the 12 soul qualities - the 12 disciples of the Lord - the 12 signs of the zodiac - the 12 pairs of cranial nerves which control the whole body". This 12 is essential for any living creation.
       
      "Here we see the 13 brothers in the radiant spiritual light of the Absolute - expressed caballistically as 4: a light that is utilised for all of humanity, which is number 9.*
       
      Now take careful note: among the 12 there is always an aspect that plays the role of traitor." In the New testament this role is given to Judas Iscariot, and "in the legend of King Arthur it is Mordred."
       
      To able to understand the significance of this dramatic occurrence we have to see it as happening within the very own life of the seeker. We have to place the myth of Arthur in the personal life of the striver for liberation.
       
      When any human being decides "to follow Christ", or Harry Potter, or Arthur, in other words, if he decides to admit into his own being the spiritual light and the spiritual force which are sent down for his benefit from the Divine Universe as the building materials for a new, divine temple, he receives 12 disciples. 12 forces enter and act upon him. 12 rays, 12 aspects of his own being are affected and influenced, to actualise the new life in and for the seeker.
       
      However, seeing that new life is not of this world, seeing that new life, once invoked, is designed to liberate the human being structurally and fundamentally from matter and from dualistic existence, and seeing that the seeker himself, in his threefold manifestation (Harry, Ron and Hemione) is totally of this world, the seeker is consciously entering an extremely dramatic phase of life. This means the beginning of an intense struggle for liberation, a process of total dissolution, full of woe from nature's point of view. As soon as the alchemist begins to practise the alchemical science of rebirth, one of his soul forces, one of his disciples will, right after the first step on the Path, lead the alchemist consciously straight to a threefold dissolution of the earthly human temple. Then his whole dualistic existence will be taken to Calvary, "as the Tarot also demonstrates."
       
      I don't know enough about the Tarot to understand this. Is there anyone who could explain this? Is there a traitor in the Tarot who leads the seeker "to Calvary"? Isabella?
       
      Anyone who says, from within, "I am going the Path", and so connects his being with the force field of the Christ Hierarchy, or the Masters of Compassion, as I call them, or I suppose you could call them the fellowship of Bodhisattvas, will find the 12 soul forces beginning to actualise the alchemical process of liberation, and one of them will precede the alchemist in the process of dissolution - "to a resurrection or a fall."
       
      When the alchemist "is surrounded by these 12 microcosmic forces like 12 fighting forces or 12 knights around the one, a process is brooded out as in the classical mundane egg, so that a totally new human being can be born. We are reminded here of the Chymical Marriage of Christian Rosycross, where this process is described as the birth of a bird from a fiery egg."
       
      What matters now is whether the alchemist consciously wants this process of rebirth to happen in his own life. "If he doesn't, he will do better to withdraw in time. Whoever does not have the courage is better off not burning himself in this fire."
       
      He or she who wants to become an Arthur, a Jesus or a Harry, will, at a psychological moment, have to say to Mordred, "what you want to do - do quickly!" Or - "Severus ... please ..."
       
      This mantram introduces the last phase of the process of dissolving nature. The blood will and must flow on Calvary. The alchemist will have to wake through this last phase again and again in different stages of his development.
       
      "Blessed is he who consciously accepts this suffering, the suffering of nature dissolution. He will be lifted up into a joy that surpasses all understanding.
       
      Whoever behaves negatively in this process, or is caught unprepared by the eddies of dissolution, will incriminate as treachery the power that is entering his life and crushing his natural passions. Such a person will not understand this bitter experience but resist it and look out for an opportunity to take revenge."
       
      We know that this is how Harry feels at the end of Part 6, and so this is saying that Harry has to come to terms with Dumbledore's death and accept it as necessary.
       
      "Just as the lion's claw pounds the body of its prey and tears it to pieces, so it is Judas, the disciple with the purse, the disciple who pays the bills, Judas, the son of the lion, who brings his Lord to Golgotha. When he has accomplished this he hangs himself, i.e. he turns himself to higher good, just as in esoteric teachings the anguish of the 12th house becomes the break through to the new birth of the first house."
       
      Once again I presume this refers to the Tarot. Any one know what this means?
       
      "This is how we should also understand the relationship between King Arthur and Mordred." And Dumbledore and Snape. "The myth tells us that Mordred wanted Arthur's wife, and this caused Arthur to wound Mordred in a fierce fight." This tells us that the candidate for the new life, the alchemist, is carried along by a fertile, ever bearing idea, a constantly driving, impelling force that inspires him - Arthur's wife. "This beloved one must drive the candidate out of the self of nature in order to be able to build the heavenly nature." "The most characteristic property of earthly nature is self-preservation, as you know." When a candidate for liberation is being overshadowed by the Christ Hierarchy, his earthly nature will spontaneously react by trying to grab hold of that driving, bearing force of the higher nature, and take possession of it, make it subservient to his lower self (Ron), and turn it into a domestic help in the maintenance of ordinary mundane life. The beginning alchemist will try to make the higher spiritual life subservient to his ordinary ambitions, and one of the 12 knights plays the role of forging the link. The higher life submits to capture, but the result is that in the fiery flames of this clash of two opposite natures, Mordred dies. "The earthly nature of the candidate loses and perishes in self preservation. The connecting link between the two forces burns out.
       
      Try to imagine this process:
      There is King Arthur - the symbol for the new human being.
      There is Arthur's wife - the force of the new human being.
      There is the candidate in his earthly form.
      And finally there is Mordred, one of the 12 soul-forces.
      Mordred captures Arthur's wife to give her to the candidate. In the resulting struggle Mordred dies. But Arthur, too, is wounded, and must withdraw to Avalon. Why? So that a permanent blood tie will be created between the Jesus-man and the earthly human being. Once the candidate has grabbed the higher life in his urge for self preservation in order to make the higher life subservient to his lower life, and he undergoes the resultant burning fire, he can never be freed from what he desired.
       
      Christ does not forsake us. He is linked in the blood to all of humanity." This reminds me of the blood tie between Lily and Petunia. Lily: the compassionate mother of the Inner Christ, Petunia, the earthly human being who is only concerned with superficiality. "And that is the Act of Love enabling Him to manifest Himself as an atmospheric force nearer than hands and feet. We desire Him. He comes and strikes us, to return again and again. This is why Arthur goes to Avalon, i.e. 'I shall return'.
       
      Traditional Christianity expects the second coming of Christ in a far distant future, but the alchemist who begins to discern the depths of God knows that this return is a daily happening in the clouds of heaven, cosmically, but also individually in the microcosm of him who invokes this force.
       
      This is what being a knight of the Round Table means. All the myths about King Arthur and his knights, and about Merlin, who is sometimes called the Head of the Round table, are examples of esoteric coded messages, the illegal language of the children of God in dark times.
       
      All these myths convey to the candidate that he must consciously establish a round table in his own life: a life field of 12 forces kindled in Christ." The concept of the round table refers to an alchemical process in which the candidate consciously begins to work with the 12 soul forces, consciously eats of the 12 shew breads, and is prepared to invoke the Holy Spirit Force to dissolve his dualistic self. "He must consciously wish to take Arthur's wife."
       
      In this way the myth of the round table becomes a meeting of the candidate with his 12 disciples, in a certain phase of his spiritual development. In this phase the words What you wish to do, do quickly are spoken emphatically and full of power. And so the Round Table can also be seen on a higher spiral as participating in the Christ Hierarchy, participating in the Great Work in one of the great fields of work in the service of the government of God.
       
      "We want to conclude by drawing your attention to the motto of the circle of knights who had Arthur as their central figure. This motto is: detachment, courage and purity."
       
      Detachment means detachment from the earthly nature, the dualistic world.
       
      Courage is the courage of conviction, the courage of absolute knowledge, the courage of certainty. This is the essential quality of Gryffindor, too.
       
      Purity is all embracing purity, purity of thought, feeling and deed, purity of motive, free of the ego. Detachment without such purity is impossible. Courage without such purity is passion. A person who is detached will understand the universal teachings and so will become ripe for ever higher good. A person with such courage can convert what he has understood into reality, and only a human being who is pure in thought, feeling and deed can truly love. He can be a true friend. Such a human being experiences the supernal rapture of living in union with the Other One, free of time and delusion in the eternal, Immovable Kingdom.
       
      * Footnote: By "expressed caballistically" the author means you add up the digits in 13. 1+3=4. Also 13-4=9, which is the number of humanity.
       
      This, dear friends, is the article which unites the story of Jesus Christ, King Arthur, Christian Rosycross, the Tarot, and Harry Potter. I expect it will be hard for some of you to understand. Please don't let that stop you from thinking about it. If you are a true seeker for Truth then read with the heart, where your Divine Spark is smouldering. I myself don't understand the above completely either. I'm just putting this forward in the hope it will stimulate some discussion about the symbolism of Snape, about Judas, about Mordred, and about the Tarot. We all have much to learn, I'm sure. If there is anyone in the group who has nothing to learn please let me know immediately! :o) I hope Valky especially will comment, as this touches upon her wonderful knowledge of the 12 aeons.
       
      Thanks Alison for you wonderful summary of chapter 13. I've been working on this post for about a week and wanted to finish it first. Now I can look at your post and chapter 13.
       
      Warm regards to all, and please do respond.
       
      Hans


      "Rowling said she couldn't answer the questions about the book's religious content until the conclusion of book seven." CST 99
      "If I talk too freely about whether I believe in God I think the intelligent reader, whether 10 or 60, will be able to guess what's coming in the books." JKR
       

      Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

    • Temple Richmond
      Hans has written: Once again I presume this refers to the Tarot. Any one know what this means? The tarot key for which you search is Tarot Key 12, the Hanged
      Message 2 of 10 , May 15, 2006
        Hans has written:
         
        Once again I presume this refers to the Tarot. Any one know what this means?
         
         
        The tarot key for which you search is Tarot Key 12, the Hanged Man, even referred to in HBP under the veil of Little and Great Hangleton, the Hanged Man Pub therein, and the hanging serpents on the door of the Gaunt home.  In an earlier book it is prefigured by Ron's suspension upside down in mid air.
         
        Temple Richmond
         
      • Hans Andréa
        Hans wrote: Just as the lion s claw pounds the body of its prey and tears it to pieces, so it is Judas, the disciple with the purse, the disciple who pays the
        Message 3 of 10 , May 16, 2006
          Hans wrote:
          "Just as the lion's claw pounds the body of its prey and tears it to pieces, so it is Judas, the disciple with the purse, the disciple who pays the bills, Judas, the son of the lion, who brings his Lord to Golgotha. When he has accomplished this he hangs himself, i.e. he turns himself to higher good, just as in esoteric teachings the anguish of the 12th house becomes the break through to the new birth of the first house."
           
          Once again I presume this refers to the Tarot. Any one know what this means?
           
          Temple Richmond wrote:
          The tarot key for which you search is Tarot Key 12, the Hanged Man, even referred to in HBP under the veil of Little and Great Hangleton, the Hanged Man Pub therein, and the hanging serpents on the door of the Gaunt home.  In an earlier book it is prefigured by Ron's suspension upside down in mid air.
           
          Hans now:
          Thanks for that, Temple. I would like to know a lot more about this, though. In my explanatory book of the Tarot it places the Hanged Man as No. 14. Is that wrong? What does the author of the article mean by "the anguish of the 12th house becomes the break through to the new birth of the first house."?
           
          I also wrote previously:
          As soon as the alchemist begins to practise the alchemical science of rebirth, one of his soul forces, one of his disciples will, right after the first step on the Path, lead the alchemist consciously straight to a threefold dissolution of the earthly human temple. Then his whole dualistic existence will be taken to Calvary, "as the Tarot also demonstrates."
           
          I don't know enough about the Tarot to understand this. Is there anyone who could explain this? Is there a traitor in the Tarot who leads the seeker "to Calvary"?
           
          Can anyone explain how the Tarot might illustrate how we might personally have to visit our Calvary to come to a rebirth?
           
          The following things strike me as interesting in all this.
          - Judas hanged himself: the hanged man.
          - He was paid 30 pieces of silver which ended up being buried in the Potter's field.
          - Dumbledore fell off the tower in the same way as is shown in the Tarot card "The (lightning struck) Tower".
          - Snape invented "The Hanged Man" jinx.
          What does it all mean?
           


          "Rowling said she couldn't answer the questions about the book's religious content until the conclusion of book seven." CST 99
          "If I talk too freely about whether I believe in God I think the intelligent reader, whether 10 or 60, will be able to guess what's coming in the books." JKR
           

          Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

        • M.Clifford
          swooooooohooo WOW! Hans this is one amazing piece of work you have found. I barely know where to start, so I ll just take a deep breath.. here goes.... :) ...
          Message 4 of 10 , May 17, 2006
            swooooooohooo WOW! Hans this is one amazing piece of work you have
            found. I barely know where to start, so I'll just take a deep breath..
            here goes.... :)



            Hans:
            > The myth of the Round Table tells us of Arthur or Artus, the
            radiant figure who governs the centre of his circle of knights. He was
            the son of Uther, and it was said of him that he was brought up in
            obscurity - just like our Harry. His kingship was foretold, just as a
            prophecy was made about Harry (and Jesus!), and of course Arthur
            pulled a sword out of a stone, while Harry pulled the sword of GODric
            out of his hat.
            >
            > And Arthur comes to live amongst us, raised by Merlin, the symbol
            of the Original Divine Human Being. And he has 12 victories: he is
            surrounded by 12 heroes. The 12 surrounding the one is the symbol of
            the completeness of the sacred mysteries which express the heavenly
            human being in his totality.
            >
            > This 12 is the same as "the 12 shew breads in the temple - the 12
            soul qualities - the 12 disciples of the Lord - the 12 signs of the
            zodiac - the 12 pairs of cranial nerves which control the whole body".
            This 12 is essential for any living creation.
            >


            Valky:
            The twelve are symbolised in so many ways aren't they? Now I think
            that this is because the twelve are the whole set of primary units
            needed to create everything real and known to us. Another philosophy
            that would equate the individual nature of each of the 12, is the
            "uncarved stone" of the Tao path. Each of the twelve then, are
            originally uncarved stones, prima materia of all things.

            So then our own consciousness is granted twelve places/ways/and
            matters from which things can become, and consciousness is given them
            in their pure white uncarved form. from these, twelve prima materias
            consciousness then arises form. This is where the Aeon myth of the
            fall is useful to correlate. Consciousness, having been granted this
            inviolable power over the form taken by the prima materias, then
            changes the prima materias in itself, and like Narcissus then become
            entranced by the vision of itself reflected in the prima materias, the
            12 then become the Aeons of the fallen plane of reality, no longer
            uncarved and pure white albedo material, but the reflection to the
            consciousness of its own self, which has become everything that the
            self knows in its plane of existence. And this is the Physical plane
            as we generally know it.

            In the process of Alchemy then, through the nigredo stage, the
            creation upon the 12 white stones of the reflection of the self's
            consciousness begins to be sintered away to black, to nothing. The
            twelve lights of the Aeons that are the prison lights, which are the
            reflection of self on the carved stones of creation, are removed and
            extinguished. This is the conquest on the physical plane.

            The creation made with the twelve units of prima materia remains to
            the consciousness. The self, no longer entranced by it's reflection
            upon the 12 stones looks up into creation and recognises its Houseelf,
            its reflection in the creation which has arisen from the prima
            materia. This creation has sustained the physical body and mind
            throughout its development (Lucius and Narcissa) and it has been
            abused and mistreated for its troubles (Dobby's life). the physical
            reality which has risen from Gods 12 stones, brings forth abundance to
            the physical body, and wisdom to the physical mind, in accordance with
            the soul which is in God and the purpose in God of the existence of
            the candidate. This purpose is for the candidate to return to the arms
            of its father god where the candidate will be given the hidden manna,
            and the fruit of the tree of life - this will be achieved through both
            suffering and through joy, and through knowledge of good and of evil
            which was the choice of humanity which lead to the fall. The choice
            made by the candidate, in eve the mother of humanity, to taste the
            wisdom fruits of the tree of knowledge. the Ourself of the candidate
            which is the reflection of the consciousness in the creation arising
            from the 12 of God which were uncarved, and then carved, now to be
            uncarved again, has worked tirelessly toward this purpose for the
            candidate of the new soul. The self however has resented the suffering
            brought to it by its reflection, and the phyiscal body and mind have
            treated it with bitter contempt. The New Soul arising in the candidate
            frees the reflection of its consciousness, which has been attached to
            its body at the points were bodyself and creation connect the hands,
            the feet, the head and the heart.

            The candidates body no longer relies on the ethereic body to sustain
            it, the new soul and the new mind have now lifted into their places
            and begun the steady approach to destiny. The freed etheric body has
            been given clothes by the seekers new soul, this vesture is its new
            purpose, where once its purpose was to reflect, which was to provide,
            now its purpose is to be, for its has its own clothes now. Dobby lives
            in a paradise of Socks :) This is the conquest on the etheric plane.


            The candidate then begins to see the Star, this is a thirteenth stone
            of creation, which is the pearl of all the stones. The candidate sees
            the twelve prima materia are hiding another prima materia. But it is a
            criminal in the eyes of the fallen world, so it must continue to hide
            caked in its black mystery which conceal its many faceted brilliance.
            This is of course Sirius. The thirteenth prima materia longs to shine
            for the new soul, but there is a time to be had before this can be
            achieved. To simply know the thirteenth aeon, is the conquest on the
            Astral plane.

            Now the prima materia are eventually scrubbed to albedo white, they
            are newly uncarved. The thirteenth of these was not "soiled" in the
            fallen plane (just as Jesus Christ was not transgressed in the world)
            so it concludes its alchemy in the higher plane to which it belongs,
            while the twelve stones of the fallen plane are scrubbed clean by the
            hands of the candidate for liberation.

            When they are clean and white, the prima materia must be remoulded
            into the philosophers stone, and on each remoulding the candidate must
            test the work in the fire, from that which withstands the fire, the
            spiritual gold can be made.

            This is where Judas/Snape comes in......

            Hans:
            > Now take careful note: among the 12 there is always an aspect
            that plays the role of traitor." In the New testament this role is
            given to Judas Iscariot, and "in the legend of King Arthur it is Mordred."
            >
            > To able to understand the significance of this dramatic occurrence
            we have to see it as happening within the very own life of the seeker.
            We have to place the myth of Arthur in the personal life of the
            striver for liberation.
            >
            > When any human being decides "to follow Christ", or Harry Potter,
            or Arthur, in other words, if he decides to admit into his own being
            the spiritual light and the spiritual force which are sent down for
            his benefit from the Divine Universe as the building materials for a
            new, divine temple, he receives 12 disciples. 12 forces enter and act
            upon him. 12 rays, 12 aspects of his own being are affected and
            influenced, to actualise the new life in and for the seeker.
            >
            > However, seeing that new life is not of this world, seeing that
            new life, once invoked, is designed to liberate the human being
            structurally and fundamentally from matter and from dualistic
            existence, and seeing that the seeker himself, in his threefold
            manifestation (Harry, Ron and Hemione) is totally of this world, the
            seeker is consciously entering an extremely dramatic phase of life.
            This means the beginning of an intense struggle for liberation, a
            process of total dissolution, full of woe from nature's point of view.
            As soon as the alchemist begins to practise the alchemical science of
            rebirth, one of his soul forces, one of his disciples will, right
            after the first step on the Path, lead the alchemist consciously
            straight to a threefold dissolution of the earthly human temple. Then
            his whole dualistic existence will be taken to Calvary, "as the Tarot
            also demonstrates."
            >
            > I don't know enough about the Tarot to understand this. Is there
            anyone who could explain this? Is there a traitor in the Tarot who
            leads the seeker "to Calvary"? Isabella?
            >
            > Anyone who says, from within, "I am going the Path", and so
            connects his being with the force field of the Christ Hierarchy, or
            the Masters of Compassion, as I call them, or I suppose you could call
            them the fellowship of Bodhisattvas, will find the 12 soul forces
            beginning to actualise the alchemical process of liberation, and one
            of them will precede the alchemist in the process of dissolution - "to
            a resurrection or a fall."
            >
            > When the alchemist "is surrounded by these 12 microcosmic forces
            like 12 fighting forces or 12 knights around the one, a process is
            brooded out as in the classical mundane egg, so that a totally new
            human being can be born. We are reminded here of the Chymical Marriage
            of Christian Rosycross, where this process is described as the birth
            of a bird from a fiery egg."
            >

            Valky:
            The traitor must lead the candidate for liberation into the hands of
            the thing that would destroy it. This traitor does this out of
            necessity, the candidate making the philosophers stone, has taken the
            principles from which the fallen plane was constructed, the 12 of God,
            cleaned them to purity and now holds in his spiritual hands the prima
            materia of creation, to mould in the purpose and destiny of God.

            This is where the symbolism of the knight of the round table is at its
            strongest. Arthur has assembled his knights and they are, and stand to
            represent the purest of all knightliness. Arthur then tests this
            purity, but as the new soul in his purity he cannot lead them to their
            deaths. The Holy Spirit which must rise from the ashes of the fire of
            the phoenix, will do so over the blood from the twelve of god. this is
            the cleansing in the blood of the lamb which is spoken about in the
            book of revelation. Because Arthur cannot lead this army into attack
            against the enemy which would spoil the purity of the prima materia, a
            knight, among the twelve, must throw the army into the depth of the
            fire, this is the only pure way. That knight then turns himself to the
            battlefield, his death, for the cause of good, is a suicide. The holy
            spirit rises from the ashes, and the test of the material for the
            philosophers stone, is a success.

            Dumbledores death, then, in some way, ensures the success of Harry's
            mission. It must be done, and it must be done quickly, Snape has
            killed himself by doing it, but Dumbledore's rising spirit from the
            ashes of the fire is evidence that the material for the Harry Potter
            saga Philsosophers stone, is ready. The stone will now be slowly
            heated to perfection in the Redwork.


            Hans:
            > What matters now is whether the alchemist consciously wants this
            process of rebirth to happen in his own life. "If he doesn't, he will
            do better to withdraw in time. Whoever does not have the courage is
            better off not burning himself in this fire."
            >

            Valky:
            Yep, this is completely utterly the crux of all this, and the reason
            why our candidate for liberation Harry Potter, is a Gryffindor.

            Above I talk about the prima materia being thrown into battle by the
            traitor and the Holy spirit rising from the ashes of this bloody test
            of spiritual worth in the highest order. Reading it that way, its easy
            to forget that the materia are not literally a handful of white stones
            that the candidate throws into a pit of flames, and nor is it a group
            of brave pure knights whom the candidate goes to battle with. The
            materia, is self. The flame of the pheonix and the bloody battle field
            are the places the self must be courageous enough to enter. stan
            talked about this earlier in saying that the seeker must face his
            inner medusa, which can turn hims to stone with a glance. this is the
            valley of the shadow of death, and for all candidates of liberation,
            this is the way. Ony very great faith will get the candidate here, and
            only greater faith, will get the candidate through. Its a really gutsy
            move.. ;)


            Okay, I have used up my time so I will have to leave whatever else
            there is til later, hope you enjoyed my long chinwag :)

            from Valky
          • M.Clifford
            Hi everyone, Thanks to Hans an Christina for their feedback about my last post in this thread. I felt inspired by your warm words to write some more about it.
            Message 5 of 10 , May 20, 2006
              Hi everyone,
              Thanks to Hans an Christina for their feedback about my last post in
              this thread. I felt inspired by your warm words to write some more
              about it. :) I've even included a prediction for Snape at the end.


              In the previous post I described the conquest on the first three
              planes, I think it is valuable to realise, that the gospel of Jesus
              has put these three first conquests into a nice neat little nutshell
              for everyone in this passage from Matthew 19:21-

              Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou
              hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven:
              and come and follow me.

              Go and sell all though hast clearly means to relinquish material
              existence completely. This is a perfectly concise definition of the
              conquest on the physical plane.

              And give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, is a
              concise definition of the conquest on the etheric plane. If you sell
              your TV you will be paid for it, it will translate into another form
              of wealth, an abstract form. Jesus says not to keep this form of
              wealth either but to free it for the purpose of alleviating the
              suffering of others. The etheric mission of alchemy is a revelation to
              us of the spiritual worth of our own suffering. It's pretty easy for
              us humans to get caught up in feeling sorry for ourselves because the
              world has made us suffer, the world is our Dobby to our Narcissa and
              Lucius, and when we resent the world of gods creation for our
              suffering we are like Narcissa and Lucius, beating our Dobby. In
              Jesus' words the quest is to relinquish our material attachment, and
              when we have done so, what we are left with is the abstract wealth of
              the world, Dobby the Houself. By freeing this wealth in the world, we
              increase our wealth in heaven. This means we allow the world to *be*
              without our attempts to control it physically, by passing its valuable
              gold on to the suffering poor. In the case of selling a TV and
              relinquishing our attachment then to ownership of a material thing,
              the gold we get in return we relinquish our control over as well. It
              is not to be turned back to the purpose of sustaining us, but out into
              the world instead, given back to caesar to whom it belongs, for we are
              going back to god, to whom we belong.

              And come and follow me. This is the conquest on the etheric plane. The
              mission is to come to know the thirteenth of the Aeons, the pearl of
              the stones. Jesus also intimates it is enough to know him in some
              passages, I believe that this is what he means, to know him as the
              thirteenth Aeon, the word that was with God in the beginning, and
              hence a prima materia of creation, the morning star, is the conquest
              on the Astral plane.

              So now on to some other parts of Hans' original post-


              Hans wrote:
              "Blessed is he who consciously accepts this suffering, the suffering
              of nature dissolution. He will be lifted up into a joy that surpasses
              all understanding.

              Whoever behaves negatively in this process, or is caught unprepared by
              the eddies of dissolution, will incriminate as treachery the power
              that is entering his life and crushing his natural passions. Such a
              person will not understand this bitter experience but resist it and
              look out for an opportunity to take revenge."

              We know that this is how Harry feels at the end of Part 6, and so this
              is saying that Harry has to come to terms with Dumbledore's death and
              accept it as necessary.

              Valky:
              Yes, I agree Hans. This aspect of the path is also illustrated in AW,
              in the sense that CR follows his seeker path through the seven days
              only to find near the end of his journey that he is a transgressor
              deserving of the most severe punishment, and that he has been dobbed
              in to the King for his transgression. He stands in the Wedding court,
              a criminal, who has defiled Venus. For all the great work which he has
              steadily accomplished through his days of preparation, his reward, so
              it seems, is to be tried, condemned and thrown to the fire.

              Harry sees this in the end of Dumbledores life at the hands of Snape,
              the dark occult past of the seeker. For all the great hope and trust
              Dumbledore poured into his young contemporary, his reward, it seems,
              is to be condemned and thrown to his death, because the dark past of
              Snape cannot be escaped, the occult transgression sticks like an old
              spaghetti stain that won't wash off. In HP Jo illustrates the seeker
              who resists acquiescing to this condemnation and punishment, Harry
              seeks revenge against Snape, unable to come to terms with the bitter
              reality that the path of knowledge of good and evil, which is the path
              of humanity, and the path illustrated by Snape who sought to be
              redeemed of his evil ways, and also illustrated by Lupin who is
              afflicted despite his dutiful goodness, culminates in a revelation
              that is nakedly honest. There is no whitewashing of truth in this
              revelation, the seeker stands before the court to be tried, the
              material of god will stand the test of the fire, faith is to know
              this. If the seeker does not know this, as Harry does not know why
              Dumbledore died, and then face it as Harry faced Dumbledore's death,
              the result is the seeker feeling betrayed by the path. The seeker goes
              the path expecting that it is good, and, trusting in its promise,
              follows the path all the way where it leads, just as CR did all that
              was asked of him by the Virgin and the Old Man. When it turns out to
              the seeker that his evil side does not appear to be truly redeemed,
              then he could rebel like Harry did, against the path, angry because
              the promise was broken and the path was not all good.

              At Dumbledores funeral, however, Jo illustrates the other path, of
              acceptance. Harry recalls that he is Dumbledore's man Through and
              Through, this is a symbol of him recognising that he is God's
              material, filled with the Holy Spirit (HS is symbolised by
              Dumbledore). When Harry realises this way that he is made of
              "Dumbledore's man", he realises symbolically that the material of the
              alchemy has withstood the test of the fire. Dumbledore will never be
              gone as long as those who are faithful to him remain. Here Jo
              illustrates the great faith which CR demonstrated in AW when he stood
              and declared himself the criminal to the King. Knowing that Gods
              material will not be hurt by the second death (as it is portrayed in
              revelation), is the great faith needed for the seeker to enter the
              valley of the shadow of death.





              Hans wrote:

              "Just as the lion's claw pounds the body of its prey and tears it to
              pieces, so it is Judas, the disciple with the purse, the disciple who
              pays the bills, Judas, the son of the lion, who brings his Lord to
              Golgotha. When he has accomplished this he hangs himself, i.e. he
              turns himself to higher good, just as in esoteric teachings the
              anguish of the 12th house becomes the break through to the new birth
              of the first house."

              Once again I presume this refers to the Tarot. Any one know what this
              means?


              Valky:

              This is a very wide esoteric tradition, it is found in Astrology as
              Temple stated, and it is also a basis of understanding reincarnation.

              The twelfth House in astrology is the house of psychic and mystical
              energies, sometimes called the house of mysteries. It is ruled by
              Pisces, the watery duality (mutable water), considered to be the most
              mystical of all sun signs.

              The anguish of the twelfth house can represent the reincarnational
              cycle, the anguish of the past life breaks through into the rebirth
              into the next, this defines karma.

              It would help, I think, for you to envision this as the conquest of
              all karma in the seeker journey, the final battle against the
              Kundalini. The payment of Karma is represented by Judas' purse, when
              he turns his Lord to Golgotha, he turns himself to the fire, in this
              way he represents a burnt offering, his hanging then is a symbol of
              the sealing of this covenant. The anguish in the context of the story
              of Judas, is a symbol of him burning in the fire. This is like the way
              that Harry burns with anguish in the end of Half Blood Prince, Snape
              too burns up emotionally, his face distorts in pain. Hagrids house
              burns, and from inside the cries of Fang's anguish in the flames can
              be heard.

              The cries of anguish represent the karma being released in the flames,
              the anguish of the twelfth house. In HP Snape then takes Draco, who is
              also a symbol of the Serpent, as his burden, this is the symbol of
              Snape preparing to seal his covenant, in judas story, the thirty
              pieces of silver are the symbol of Draco, there are two versions, in
              one version Judas returns the silver to the priests and hung himself,
              in another version Judas uses the silver to buy a field but then he
              falls over dead, his belly burst and gushing blood onto his field.
              Both these versions fit a part of the story of the fire test. The
              field of blood is the field of calvary, where Mordreds blood seals the
              covenant in the soil, the return of the silver pieces and consequent
              suicide represent the work of Judas' own hand in sealing his covenant
              of sacrifice.

              Snape will most likely have a similar twofold fate in book seven. He
              will return Draco to the world, unable to allay his burden of guilt.
              he recieved Draco as was the design of the event of DD's death, but
              having done so, now takes his guilt to his grave. Snape will most
              likely die in the battlefield which he 'traded for Draco' but on this
              battlefield look out for Snape to be unbeatable, his death will not be
              by the skill of his opponent but by his own hand, which he will
              surprisingly turn against himself.




              Valky
            • Hans Andréa
              M.Clifford wrote: This aspect of the path is also illustrated in the AW, in the sense that CR follows his seeker path through the
              Message 6 of 10 , May 22, 2006
                "M.Clifford" <valkyrievixen@...> wrote:
                This aspect of the path is also illustrated in the AW, in the sense that CR follows his seeker path through the seven days only to find near the end of his journey that he is a transgressor deserving of the most severe punishment, and that he has been dobbed in to the King for his transgression. He stands in the Wedding court, a criminal, who has defiled Venus. For all the great work which he has steadily accomplished through his days of preparation, his reward, so it seems, is to be tried, condemned and thrown to the fire.
                 
                Harry sees this in the end of Dumbledore's life at the hands of Snape, the dark occult past of the seeker. For all the great hope and trust Dumbledore poured into his young contemporary, his reward, it seems, is to be condemned and thrown to his death, because the dark past of Snape cannot be escaped, the occult transgression sticks like an old spaghetti stain that won't wash off.
                 
                I just can't adequately express my joy that someone completely understands one of my posts and is able to enrich it with further references, illustrations and allusions. I find Valky's response so beautiful I have great trouble in holding the tears back. What a tremendous treasure our archives are becoming. I wish the world knew and appreciated it. Let's hope Jo peeps in occasionally.
                 
                The seeker goes the path expecting that it is good, and, trusting in its promise,
                follows the path all the way where it leads, just as CR did all that was asked of him by the Virgin and the Old Man. When it turns out to the seeker that his evil side does not appear to be truly redeemed, then he could rebel like Harry did, against the path, angry because the promise was broken and the path was not all good.
                 
                Yes, I believe this is exactly what "J. v R." meant. Valky has made it seem very obvious now that Harry will learn this lesson in Part 7. Jo is brilliant at showing us how Harry grows and develops - this is what makes her story so heart warming. And so, yes, Harry will learn to accept Dumbledore's death as necessary, and will no doubt overcome his urge for revenge against Snape.
                 
                At Dumbledore's funeral, however, Jo illustrates the other path, that of acceptance. Harry recalls that he is Dumbledore's man Through and Through, this is a symbol of him recognising that he is God's material, filled with the Holy Spirit (HS is symbolised by Dumbledore). When Harry realises this way that he is made of "Dumbledore's man", he realises symbolically that the material of the alchemy has withstood the test of the fire. Dumbledore will never be gone as long as those who are faithful to him remain. Here Jo illustrates the great faith which CR demonstrated in AW when he stood and declared himself the criminal to the King.
                 
                Thanks you for that beautiful passage, Valky. The depth of the symbolism in Harry Potter is so deep, so powerful and so exquisite, and you have brought it out into the open, and compared it with the other great liberating works. This is the sort of thing that convinces me that the power of Part 7 will have the world in tears.
                 
                The anguish in the context of the story of Judas, is a symbol of him burning in the fire. This is like the way that Harry burns with anguish in the end of Half Blood Prince, Snape too burns up emotionally, his face distorts in pain. Hagrid's house burns, and from inside the cries of Fang's anguish in the flames can be heard.
                 
                I just had to paste that piece in for the sheer beauty of it. Three types of burning, three types of anguish.
                 
                in another version Judas uses the silver to buy a field but then he falls over dead, his belly burst and gushing blood onto his field.
                 
                He poured his blood on to the Potter's field, did he? Is that a clue?
                 
                Snape will most likely die in the battlefield which he 'traded for Draco' but on this
                battlefield look out for Snape to be unbeatable, his death will not be by the skill of his opponent but by his own hand, which he will surprisingly turn against himself.
                 
                Well, as you know I believe Snape is the equivalent of the Black King in the Alchemical Wedding. There, the Black King sacrifices himself for the young couple. Your prediction certainly satisfies that requirement. Any idea who the old wife of the Black King might be? And how do you think the sacrifice of Lupin and Tonks will fit into this?
                 
                Once again my deepest thanks for your contribution to the discussion, Valky.


                "Rowling said she couldn't answer the questions about the book's religious content until the conclusion of book seven." CST 99
                "If I talk too freely about whether I believe in God I think the intelligent reader, whether 10 or 60, will be able to guess what's coming in the books." JKR
                 

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              • chris
                My internet access is severly curtailed at the moment, and I m way behind on everything. I m going to try and catch up over the next couple of days, so my
                Message 7 of 10 , May 22, 2006
                  My internet access is severly curtailed at the moment, and I'm way behind on everything. I'm going to try and catch up over the next couple of days, so my apologies if these things have already been covered in later posts. I'd be really pleased if anyone would respond to my questions!

                  Hans:
                  The author then tells us that what this type of ancient myth proves is that humanity has always needed a saviour, a hero who has descended from the eternal and divine life to liberate people from the world of uncontrolled emotions and suffering.

                  Chris:
                  The last line of this struck me particularly. You have linked uncontrolled emotions and suffering. I’d have thought most people would recognise that a saviour or hero would rescue them from suffering, but uncontrolled emotions is another matter. Why do I need to be liberated from uncontrolled emotions?



                  Hans:
                  The myth of the Round Table tells us of Arthur or Artus, the radiant figure who governs the centre of his circle of knights. He was the son of Uther, and it was said of him that he was brought up in obscurity - just like our Harry. His kingship was foretold, just as a prophecy was made about Harry (and Jesus!), and of course Arthur pulled a sword out of a stone, while Harry pulled the sword of GODric out of his hat.

                  Chris:
                  That was Uther Pendragon, wasn’t it? What is the significance of Arthur’s father’s surname?

                  Hans:
                  This 12 is the same as "the 12 shew breads in the temple - the 12 soul qualities - the 12 disciples of the Lord - the 12 signs of the zodiac - the 12 pairs of cranial nerves which control the whole body". This 12 is essential for any living creation.

                  Chris:
                  Why is this 12 essential for any living creation?

                  Hans:
                  However, seeing that new life is not of this world, seeing that new life, once invoked, is designed to liberate the human being structurally and fundamentally from matter and from dualistic existence, and seeing that the seeker himself, in his threefold manifestation (Harry, Ron and Hemione) is totally of this world, the seeker is consciously entering an extremely dramatic phase of life. This means the beginning of an intense struggle for liberation, a process of total dissolution, full of woe from nature's point of view. As soon as the alchemist begins to practise the alchemical science of rebirth, one of his soul forces, one of his disciples will, right after the first step on the Path, lead the alchemist consciously straight to a threefold dissolution of the earthly human temple. Then his whole dualistic existence will be taken to Calvary,

                  Chris:
                  This sounds to me as if it is instant, yet Judas doesn't betray Jesus until 3 years after his ministry begins. How does the time factor fit? can it be related to the way time is split into years in the Harry Potter books? And do we know anything about the time factor in the King Arthur story?

                  Hans:
                  "Blessed is he who consciously accepts this suffering, the suffering of nature dissolution. He will be lifted up into a joy that surpasses all understanding.

                  Whoever behaves negatively in this process, or is caught unprepared by the eddies of dissolution, will incriminate as treachery the power that is entering his life and crushing his natural passions. Such a person will not understand this bitter experience but resist it and look out for an opportunity to take revenge."

                  We know that this is how Harry feels at the end of Part 6, and so this is saying that Harry has to come to terms with Dumbledore's death and accept it as necessary.

                  Chris:
                  Is the suffering something that comes after the joy, or is it possible to experience the suffering with joy? If so, how?

                  And if so, how might that have affected Harry's experience?

                  Hans:
                  "The myth tells us that Mordred wanted Arthur's wife, and this caused Arthur to wound Mordred in a fierce fight."

                  Chris:
                  This puts me in mind of Snape's seeming fascination with Harry and Harry's powers, in Books 5 and 6, starting with the Occlumency lessons and continuing with detentions.

                  Hans:
                  This tells us that the candidate for the new life, the alchemist, is carried along by a fertile, ever bearing idea, a constantly driving, impelling force that inspires him - Arthur's wife. "This beloved one must drive the candidate out of the self of nature in order to be able to build the heavenly nature."

                  Chris:
                  Arthur's wife is Guinevere, which can be shortened to Ginny. That's quite a strong parallel between the story of King Arthur and the story of Harry in Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince.

                  Hans:
                  Traditional Christianity expects the second coming of Christ in a far distant future, but the alchemist who begins to discern the depths of God knows that this return is a daily happening in the clouds of heaven, cosmically, but also individually in the microcosm of him who invokes this force.

                  Chris:
                  Absolutely! It's an amazing daily experience.

                  Hans:
                  "We want to conclude by drawing your attention to the motto of the circle of knights who had Arthur as their central figure. This motto is: detachment, courage and purity."

                  Chris:
                  Harry's courage has been clearly delineated throughout the HP novels. Dumbledore points out how Harry's purity of heart puts him in an ideal position to defeat Voldemort. And although it has not been flagged up by Jo in the same way, Harry's detachment has been a constant factor thoughout the books. I've lost count of the times when I wanted him to stop the other characters and ask questions, but he never did. He isn't a follower in the other characters' activities, he always quietly goes his own way, and he resists the attempts of Fudge, of Scrimgeour, of McGonagall, and now even of Ron and Hermione, to influence him.

                  Sorry about any problems with the spelling and the formatting, I don't think this gadget has a facility to check them!

                  Chris

                  .
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                • Marianna Marinda
                  ... Trelawney! Ok, so its just a thought that right now hits me, and is based mostly on non-HP parallels that I have been making, but still... She seems to
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 22, 2006
                    Hans Andréa wrote:

                    > Well, as you know I believe Snape is the equivalent of the Black King
                    > in the Alchemical Wedding. There, the Black King sacrifices himself
                    > for the young couple. Your prediction certainly satisfies that
                    > requirement. Any idea who the old wife of the Black King might be?

                    Trelawney! Ok, so its just a thought that right now hits me, and is
                    based mostly on non-HP parallels that I have been making, but still...
                    She seems to fit largely because she is the feminine 'seer' figure (and
                    I always associated Snape somehow to be some sort of political-religious
                    figure), and also because a link can be made in that capacity with the
                    original prophecy about Harry that she made and Snape overheard.

                    Just a thought, :)
                    Marianna
                  • Hans Andréa
                    Marianna Marinda wrote: Any idea who the old wife of the Black King might be? Trelawney! OK, so its just a thought that right now
                    Message 9 of 10 , May 25, 2006
                      Marianna Marinda <marianna@...> wrote:
                      Any idea who the old wife of the Black King might be? Trelawney!  OK, so its just a thought that right now hits me, and is based mostly on non-HP parallels that I have been making, but still... She seems to fit largely because she is the feminine 'seer' figure (and I always associated Snape somehow to be some sort of political-religious
                      figure), and also because a link can be made in that capacity with the original prophecy about Harry that she made and Snape overheard.
                       
                      Hans:
                      Thanks for your contribution, Marianna. Let's have a look at what we know. This is what it actually says in the original text of the Alchemical Wedding: On the third throne sat a black king of middle age, and beside him a frail old matron, not crowned but covered with a veil.
                       
                      This is what Jan van Rijckenborgh says about the black king in his book The Alchemical Wedding of Christian Rosycross: Is this not the image of the great cup filled with bitterness, which the man-in-genesis has had to drain in his age-long course through matter and night? Black is the colour of night and darkness. Black is the colour of mourning. It is the symbol of sorrow, penance and purifications and also the symbol of a multiplicity of sins and a wrong way of life, What maturity has the wandering man-in-genesis attained in this way! A harvest of experience; a harvest of bitterness! [...]
                       
                      Two natures speak in the human being born of nature, two voices: the voice of good and the voice of evil. Both have a positive and negative aspect, a male and a female pole. That is why they are represented in the upper room, in the head sanctuary, by four figures: the two kings with their consorts.
                       
                      When we refer to the black king and his wife as "evil", you should understand this in the sense of Gnostic [dualistic] philosophy. What is evil? It is not only those things which are villainous, inferior or very bad. Evil in the sense of the Gnosis is everything that binds bodily man to the nadir of materiality and seeks to make him look for his destiny here.
                       
                      The fact that the negative aspect of the black king [his wife] is so old and decrepit is also worthy of note. The aspect of man symbolised here is on the edge of the grave, while the negative aspect of the grey king [Lupin] is very young and full of vitality [Tonks].
                       
                      And so we are looking for a person who is the negative, i.e. the passive, receptive aspect of Snape. She has to be "on the edge of the grave", symbolising that the wayward life away from God has reached the end of the road of experience. So I think we are really looking for a very old death eater. It's quite possible this is someone we haven't met. People have suggested Snape's mother. Very unlikely. I think they have to be married. Others have suggested Madam Pince. She's not a Death Eater. Prof. Trelawney is not either, and is far too young, I'm afraid. The veil might explain why we haven't met her yet. Perhaps Snape will marry an unknown death eater in Part 7.
                       
                      Anyway, thanks for your help, Marianna. It's given me the opportunity to write about this in greater detail.


                      "Rowling said she couldn't answer the questions about the book's religious content until the conclusion of book seven." CST 99
                      "If I talk too freely about whether I believe in God I think the intelligent reader, whether 10 or 60, will be able to guess what's coming in the books." JKR
                       


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                    • C Wise
                      ... MariannaMarinda: Trelawney! Ok, so its just a thought that right now hits me, and is based mostly on non-HP parallels that I have been making, but
                      Message 10 of 10 , May 25, 2006
                        Hans Andréa wrote:

                        > Well, as you know I believe Snape is the equivalent of the Black King
                        > in the Alchemical Wedding. There, the Black King sacrifices himself
                        > for the young couple. Your prediction certainly satisfies that
                        > requirement. Any idea who the old wife of the Black King might be?

                        MariannaMarinda:
                         
                        Trelawney!  Ok, so its just a thought that right now hits me, and is
                        based mostly on non-HP parallels that I have been making, but still...
                        She seems to fit largely because she is the feminine 'seer' figure (and
                        I always associated Snape somehow to be some sort of political-religious
                        figure), and also because a link can be made in that capacity with the
                        original prophecy about Harry that she made and Snape overheard.

                        candy now:
                         
                        Hi! I don't think I've spoken to you directly before. I'm curious who the the black queen may be too (and also running behind in the posts as well - so if someone else has already addressed this theory, my apologies.
                         
                        Any way, my thoughts keep jumping to McGonagall; I'm not sure why. I think it has something to do with a post I read awhile back on HPFGU dredging up an old post for discussion which argues a McGonagall ESE theory. I'm not convinced that MM is ESE, but, I do have the feeling she will do something unexpected in the last book, because, her interrogation of Harry at the end of Book VI about his activities with AD (and in a couple of other places) seems somehow out of place, like an off note. It just sticks out.
                         
                        I'm not sure why I suspect she has some unrevealed relationship to SS either -let alone marriage, but SS does seem the type to limit his respect to a select few anyway, and given his own magical prowess, I think MM is one of the few who might qualify for SS's respect, even if there's no romance about it.
                         
                        Just another thought (with no real alchemical content that I can pin down at the moment - but I'll work on it)? Am I completely mad? 
                         
                        yours, candy




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