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RE: [harrypotterforseekers] Worse than Death?

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  • Marianna Marinda
    ... about having all magical ability stripped, essentially becoming a muggle, and having to live in our world, among people he considers lower than
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 27, 2004
      Fred said:
      >I'm trying to imagine what would be worse than death for Voldy-- how
      about having all magical ability stripped, essentially becoming a
      muggle, and having to live in our world, among people he considers
      lower than flobberworms? I don't think losing his memory like
      Lockhart did by his own hand(nice bit of irony there, Jo!) would be
      worse, since he wouldn't have to face his deeds or even know what
      he's lost.<

      No matter how any one of US might look at it, in no different physical state
      of life is Voldemort going to care what his actions have caused for anyone
      else. As the personification of illusion (as Hans mentioned earlier, and
      which I think sums him up pretty accurately), Voldemort doesn't have the
      capacity to conceptualize anything beyond himself. He is the center and sum
      of his universe. For him, form is everything, and there _can be_ no thing
      worse than death- that's why he will do any and all things to stay alive,
      and increase in power. This is the given mindset that he has; no changed
      physical state would make any difference to him (he just works from there
      instead, as he did when he was vapor-Voldemort)... As long as he senses
      'aliveness'.

      The thing I find, however, that Voldemort cannot conceptualize that would be
      worse than death to him, is Living with Love. To become aware of Love in
      his being would be to self destruct, since his personality is built on
      everything that is not love. Everything he has stood for would be
      incompatible to the tiniest degree with a true sense of Love, and therefore
      it would all fall apart were he to come to real internal understanding of
      what Love is. In this case, he would (in a sense) choose death over life by
      self-destructing. After all, can you imagine what kind of intense hell such
      a being would be under in that moment of realization wherein he must
      integrate true Love with his style of being? It would involve becoming
      deeply aware of the unloving quality of anything and everything he has ever
      done, all at once. In its light, the incompatibility of the evil
      personality becomes instantly known. That is WHY self-destruction happens
      to a person of evil, but only when Love is truly understood. It would be
      self-destruction of his _personality_, not just his body. He would truly
      never be Voldemort any more, in any sense. The same power that causes such
      hell for one as this, is what would be an intense warm and inviting powerful
      feeling to any and all others who live Love.

      Now that Voldemort carries Harry's blood, with the protection of Lily, he
      carries the seed of being able to understand the Love that will cause his
      demise. Harry knows what it means to feel the hell of Love mixed with
      Voldemort... He has encountered it every time his scar has hurt, and in
      every mind-shared experience with Voldemort. But he also knows what Love
      feels like, and how much Love is Life. I think it would not be hard for
      Harry to imagine Voldemort being as miserable as he is [given their
      undesirable union]. When Harry can come to a point where he can give of his
      Love to Voldemort, truly and unconditionally, in an effort to bless
      Voldemort's life (like I suggested before, in the attitude of giving up
      Harry's own life so that Voldemort may know Love and truly Live), that's
      when it will happen.

      Since such self-destruction of Voldemort has the same effect of personality
      that being kissed by a dementor would have on an average person, I wonder if
      they will come into the picture somehow in this climactic point. Of course,
      if they did, it might be in relation to Harry who, if kissed by a dementor
      then (embodying the ultimate personal sacrifice, faith, fearlessness, etc,
      etc) would really illustrate the strength of his personality: he would not
      at all disappear, but would instead be such a light that the dementors would
      self-destruct... I could see the whole of Voldemort's world
      self-destructing in one fell swoop! ...and Harry, in the offering up of all
      his power and personal identity for the greater purpose, would rise as a
      phoenix out of it all... (his alternate form!)

      Great topic!

      :)
      Marianna
    • Hans Rieuwers
      ... question, what would be worse than death? My answer is irrelevant
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 28, 2004
        Fred <muggletanian@...> wrote:
        >>I read annemehr's last post and asked myself that
        question, what would be worse than death? My answer is
        irrelevant<<

        Hans:
        Sorry to disagree with you, Fred, but I don't think
        your own answer is irrelevant. I'd be very interested
        in your and everybody else's answer to this. What I
        don't want is a dispute about other members' opinions
        and beliefs, but I do want to encourage everyone to
        express their beliefs and value systems without
        comparing them to others.

        I'm now snipping most of your post. I must say I
        enjoyed reading it very much as it was well thought
        out and expressed. You're an asset to the group, Fred.

        >>I'm extremely interested in hearing everyone else's
        ideas on this subject, so please send in your ideas.<<

        Yes I agree with that. I know some people like to be
        spectators in this game. Would they please be kind
        enough to let me know that in a private email? Then
        I'll leave them alone.

        >>And I'd like to know more about my fellow members
        here, so please fill in some of your profile info. I'm
        especially curious about what you do in the real world
        and at least what country, if not city you
        call home. Thanks!<<

        Yes, I'll second that. Last month when the group
        started, people were introducing themselves. For
        example posts 11-14, 18, 32, 36. Some newer members
        have not introduced themselves yet and everyone would
        be really happy if you did. You, dear member, reading
        this, are important to us and your thoughts matter!

        Concerning profiles: most of the old hands from HPFGU
        have fairly detailed profiles. A fem members don't and
        that may be because they don't know what a profile is
        or even that they have one. A profile is a page of
        information that anyone can look up. If you need help
        with this please email me privately.

        Some members may not want to give out too much
        information about themselves for various reasons, and
        we have to respect that. I have created this group
        with the messages open to the public because I want
        anyone interested in the spiritual aspects of Harry
        Potter to be able to read them. However this also
        means any member of the public can access our
        profiles, and so some members may wish to keep their
        identity to themselves. Fair enough in my opinion.

        I must say that in the last few days I've been
        overjoyed at the beautiful posts so many people are
        sending in. A chocolate frog to all of you! So if
        you're passing through Holland do let me know and you
        can come and collect it. My wife Marie is a great cook
        so you might end up with more than a chocolate frog!

        Warm regards to all of you,
        Hans

        PS I have no objection if you wish to add a few chatty
        sentences as PSs at the end of your emails, as long as
        the major section of your email deals with the objects
        of the group. Obviously I don't want this group to
        degenerate into a chatter group. You can join
        HPFGU-OTChatter for that.
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/

        Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
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