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Re: World Championship of Ping Pong

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  • dnorman
    Aren t the sponge players hitting with sandpaper bats in the video? It sounded like sandpaper, and there were some closeups of bats that looked like
    Message 1 of 27 , Dec 1, 2010
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      Aren't the sponge players hitting with sandpaper bats in the video? It sounded like sandpaper, and there were some closeups of bats that looked like sandpaper. I sort of like the idea of a game and competition where everyone uses the same kind of bat...as we use the same table, the same ball, the same net. The sport has become so expensive with the constant invention of new bats and new rubber.

      --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "wturber" <jay@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > > Yes, I think Sandman is Marty's company or at least partly.
      >
      > OTOH, there is no connection made between the two on the website. I wonder if Marty is still involved. If so, then why not make the connection between Table Tennis Nation? And why not associate Marty's name with the event as was done with Table Tennis Nation?
      >
      > Also, most of the featured videos are of sponge play. Only the historic B&W footage and the "Sandman" clip are non-sponge. Would Marty - the guy who has argued against sponge for around half a century now - stand for that? I'd think Marty would rather link to some of the Filipino Liha or even U.S. Open sandpaper matches before he'd link to sponge events. That's rather counter to the whole idea of using sandpaper rackets.
      >
      > Now add to that the passing of the November 1 seeding deadline (no committed players mentioned anywhere) and the questionable use of "ping pong" in the event name. Sandman has applied for a trademark for "World Championship of Ping Pong." But I'm pretty sure (willing to take money bets sure) that it will be initially rejected for at least one of two problems (use of "ping pong" and being "merely descriptive." That trademark does not seem to be well considered and researched to my layperson's eyes.
      >
      > It will be interesting to see what unfolds. I'd like to see Table Tennis Nation and the World Championship of Ping Pong both be successes. But I'm getting an uncomfortable feeling about the World Championship of Ping Pong. I hope I'm wrong.
      >
      > Sandman is a New York LLC, so that further suggests at least some connection with Marty. I just wonder if that connection still exists.
      >
    • gnopgnipster
      The sandman video does have sandpaper bats. From what I was told by some of the players, Marty used the Valor Big Stick bats he purchased from me. Is
      Message 2 of 27 , Dec 1, 2010
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        The sandman video does have sandpaper bats. From what I was told by some of the players, Marty used the Valor Big Stick bats he purchased from me.

        Is TabletennisNation selling carbon rackets on its website?

        CHEERS!!


        --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "dnorman" <wallyswoods@...> wrote:
        >
        > Aren't the sponge players hitting with sandpaper bats in the video? It sounded like sandpaper, and there were some closeups of bats that looked like sandpaper. I sort of like the idea of a game and competition where everyone uses the same kind of bat...as we use the same table, the same ball, the same net. The sport has become so expensive with the constant invention of new bats and new rubber.
        >
        > --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "wturber" <jay@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > > Yes, I think Sandman is Marty's company or at least partly.
        > >
        > > OTOH, there is no connection made between the two on the website. I wonder if Marty is still involved. If so, then why not make the connection between Table Tennis Nation? And why not associate Marty's name with the event as was done with Table Tennis Nation?
        > >
        > > Also, most of the featured videos are of sponge play. Only the historic B&W footage and the "Sandman" clip are non-sponge. Would Marty - the guy who has argued against sponge for around half a century now - stand for that? I'd think Marty would rather link to some of the Filipino Liha or even U.S. Open sandpaper matches before he'd link to sponge events. That's rather counter to the whole idea of using sandpaper rackets.
        > >
        > > Now add to that the passing of the November 1 seeding deadline (no committed players mentioned anywhere) and the questionable use of "ping pong" in the event name. Sandman has applied for a trademark for "World Championship of Ping Pong." But I'm pretty sure (willing to take money bets sure) that it will be initially rejected for at least one of two problems (use of "ping pong" and being "merely descriptive." That trademark does not seem to be well considered and researched to my layperson's eyes.
        > >
        > > It will be interesting to see what unfolds. I'd like to see Table Tennis Nation and the World Championship of Ping Pong both be successes. But I'm getting an uncomfortable feeling about the World Championship of Ping Pong. I hope I'm wrong.
        > >
        > > Sandman is a New York LLC, so that further suggests at least some connection with Marty. I just wonder if that connection still exists.
        > >
        >
      • wturber
        They are using sandpaper in the Sandman video. But the site has a Video page that includes YouTube links to other, mostly ITTF, videos. I m pretty sure
        Message 3 of 27 , Dec 1, 2010
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          They are using sandpaper in the "Sandman" video. But the site has a "Video" page that includes YouTube links to other, mostly ITTF, videos. I'm pretty sure they aren't using sandpaper.


          > Aren't the sponge players hitting with sandpaper bats in the video? It sounded like sandpaper, and there were some closeups of bats that looked like sandpaper. I sort of like the idea of a game and competition where everyone uses the same kind of bat...as we use the same table, the same ball, the same net. The sport has become so expensive with the constant invention of new bats and new rubber.
          >
          > --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "wturber" <jay@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > > Yes, I think Sandman is Marty's company or at least partly.
          > >
          > > OTOH, there is no connection made between the two on the website. I wonder if Marty is still involved. If so, then why not make the connection between Table Tennis Nation? And why not associate Marty's name with the event as was done with Table Tennis Nation?
          > >
          > > Also, most of the featured videos are of sponge play. Only the historic B&W footage and the "Sandman" clip are non-sponge. Would Marty - the guy who has argued against sponge for around half a century now - stand for that? I'd think Marty would rather link to some of the Filipino Liha or even U.S. Open sandpaper matches before he'd link to sponge events. That's rather counter to the whole idea of using sandpaper rackets.
          > >
          > > Now add to that the passing of the November 1 seeding deadline (no committed players mentioned anywhere) and the questionable use of "ping pong" in the event name. Sandman has applied for a trademark for "World Championship of Ping Pong." But I'm pretty sure (willing to take money bets sure) that it will be initially rejected for at least one of two problems (use of "ping pong" and being "merely descriptive." That trademark does not seem to be well considered and researched to my layperson's eyes.
          > >
          > > It will be interesting to see what unfolds. I'd like to see Table Tennis Nation and the World Championship of Ping Pong both be successes. But I'm getting an uncomfortable feeling about the World Championship of Ping Pong. I hope I'm wrong.
          > >
          > > Sandman is a New York LLC, so that further suggests at least some connection with Marty. I just wonder if that connection still exists.
          > >
          >
        • peter
          the sandman video is ----sandpaper sandman means sand get it ? thats why its called a sandman in that video cant you see that everybody enjoy hitting
          Message 4 of 27 , Dec 1, 2010
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            the sandman video is ----sandpaper

            sandman means "sand' get it ? thats why its called a "sandman"

            in that video cant you see that everybody enjoy hitting sandpaper in that video even the audience has a big smile. because it is a "spinless " game to begin with. "confiscate" that spin out and everybody is of the same level , now.
            its more of "tactical" game now and not becsue you lose because of spin.

            how i wish down the road waldner will challenge us using sandpaper. i heard he use eveything but i never heard he use something going back to 'history' like sandpaper to show the world hes still tough even with a spinless game. the last i heard he uses is a banana,( imagine that ) a cellphone . but all of these are "novelty" - not historical. many times, these good guys are only good because they have the "spin" the friction. take that out and everybody is of the same level and no "mechanical " advantage.

            again this game is just an "add on" and not a replacement to the sponge game.

            xxxxxxxx

            now im confsue what is this world championship pingpong ?
            is this hardbat or sandpaper bat ? . im sorry can anybody straightened this out.

            because the word itself "pingpong "is of sandpaper origin by parker brothers. . so i presume its sandpaper tournament? am i right? and oh gosh. they are using 40 mmm ball. of course hardbat play is 40 mm ball . so im a little bit confuse here. or this is a hardbat tournament?

            sorry for not getting the english well

            pete
          • gnopgnipster
            Hi Peter, everyone of the professional players in the sandman video, except for Marty, is a sponge player who was paid to smile. I have not seen any of them
            Message 5 of 27 , Dec 1, 2010
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              Hi Peter, everyone of the professional players in the sandman video, except for Marty, is a sponge player who was paid to smile. I have not seen any of them pick up a sandpaper racket again and $smile$

              On the other hand, some of them are playing hardbat.

              Cheers!

              --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "peter" <kusangloob@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > the sandman video is ----sandpaper
              >
              > sandman means "sand' get it ? thats why its called a "sandman"
              >
              > in that video cant you see that everybody enjoy hitting sandpaper in that video even the audience has a big smile. because it is a "spinless " game to begin with. "confiscate" that spin out and everybody is of the same level , now.
              > its more of "tactical" game now and not becsue you lose because of spin.
              >
              > how i wish down the road waldner will challenge us using sandpaper. i heard he use eveything but i never heard he use something going back to 'history' like sandpaper to show the world hes still tough even with a spinless game. the last i heard he uses is a banana,( imagine that ) a cellphone . but all of these are "novelty" - not historical. many times, these good guys are only good because they have the "spin" the friction. take that out and everybody is of the same level and no "mechanical " advantage.
              >
              > again this game is just an "add on" and not a replacement to the sponge game.
              >
              > xxxxxxxx
              >
              > now im confsue what is this world championship pingpong ?
              > is this hardbat or sandpaper bat ? . im sorry can anybody straightened this out.
              >
              > because the word itself "pingpong "is of sandpaper origin by parker brothers. . so i presume its sandpaper tournament? am i right? and oh gosh. they are using 40 mmm ball. of course hardbat play is 40 mm ball . so im a little bit confuse here. or this is a hardbat tournament?
              >
              > sorry for not getting the english well
              >
              > pete
              >
            • peter
              well , sir . here we play sandpaper , the filipino way and smile a lot. even laugh. stress really relieve out. win or loose it doesnt matter. i feel sorry for
              Message 6 of 27 , Dec 1, 2010
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                well , sir . here we play sandpaper , the filipino way and smile a lot. even laugh.
                stress really relieve out. win or loose it doesnt matter.

                i feel sorry for people who wouldnt even want to try this or play it the "wrong" way.


                pete

                --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "gnopgnipster" <gnopgnipster@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Peter, everyone of the professional players in the sandman video, except for Marty, is a sponge player who was paid to smile. I have not seen any of them pick up a sandpaper racket again and $smile$
                >
                > On the other hand, some of them are playing hardbat.
                >
                > Cheers!
                >
                > --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "peter" <kusangloob@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > the sandman video is ----sandpaper
                > >
                > > sandman means "sand' get it ? thats why its called a "sandman"
                > >
                > > in that video cant you see that everybody enjoy hitting sandpaper in that video even the audience has a big smile. because it is a "spinless " game to begin with. "confiscate" that spin out and everybody is of the same level , now.
                > > its more of "tactical" game now and not becsue you lose because of spin.
                > >
                > > how i wish down the road waldner will challenge us using sandpaper. i heard he use eveything but i never heard he use something going back to 'history' like sandpaper to show the world hes still tough even with a spinless game. the last i heard he uses is a banana,( imagine that ) a cellphone . but all of these are "novelty" - not historical. many times, these good guys are only good because they have the "spin" the friction. take that out and everybody is of the same level and no "mechanical " advantage.
                > >
                > > again this game is just an "add on" and not a replacement to the sponge game.
                > >
                > > xxxxxxxx
                > >
                > > now im confsue what is this world championship pingpong ?
                > > is this hardbat or sandpaper bat ? . im sorry can anybody straightened this out.
                > >
                > > because the word itself "pingpong "is of sandpaper origin by parker brothers. . so i presume its sandpaper tournament? am i right? and oh gosh. they are using 40 mmm ball. of course hardbat play is 40 mm ball . so im a little bit confuse here. or this is a hardbat tournament?
                > >
                > > sorry for not getting the english well
                > >
                > > pete
                > >
                >
              • peter
                again, is this refer to sandpaper or hardbat ? the $100,000 tournament that they are offering? so called : pingpong of marty pete
                Message 7 of 27 , Dec 1, 2010
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                  again, is this refer to sandpaper or hardbat ?

                  the $100,000 tournament that they are offering? so called : pingpong of marty

                  pete






                  --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "peter" <kusangloob@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > well , sir . here we play sandpaper , the filipino way and smile a lot. even laugh.
                  > stress really relieve out. win or loose it doesnt matter.
                  >
                  > i feel sorry for people who wouldnt even want to try this or play it the "wrong" way.
                  >
                  >
                  > pete
                  >
                  > --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "gnopgnipster" <gnopgnipster@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Peter, everyone of the professional players in the sandman video, except for Marty, is a sponge player who was paid to smile. I have not seen any of them pick up a sandpaper racket again and $smile$
                  > >
                  > > On the other hand, some of them are playing hardbat.
                  > >
                  > > Cheers!
                  > >
                  > > --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "peter" <kusangloob@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > the sandman video is ----sandpaper
                  > > >
                  > > > sandman means "sand' get it ? thats why its called a "sandman"
                  > > >
                  > > > in that video cant you see that everybody enjoy hitting sandpaper in that video even the audience has a big smile. because it is a "spinless " game to begin with. "confiscate" that spin out and everybody is of the same level , now.
                  > > > its more of "tactical" game now and not becsue you lose because of spin.
                  > > >
                  > > > how i wish down the road waldner will challenge us using sandpaper. i heard he use eveything but i never heard he use something going back to 'history' like sandpaper to show the world hes still tough even with a spinless game. the last i heard he uses is a banana,( imagine that ) a cellphone . but all of these are "novelty" - not historical. many times, these good guys are only good because they have the "spin" the friction. take that out and everybody is of the same level and no "mechanical " advantage.
                  > > >
                  > > > again this game is just an "add on" and not a replacement to the sponge game.
                  > > >
                  > > > xxxxxxxx
                  > > >
                  > > > now im confsue what is this world championship pingpong ?
                  > > > is this hardbat or sandpaper bat ? . im sorry can anybody straightened this out.
                  > > >
                  > > > because the word itself "pingpong "is of sandpaper origin by parker brothers. . so i presume its sandpaper tournament? am i right? and oh gosh. they are using 40 mmm ball. of course hardbat play is 40 mm ball . so im a little bit confuse here. or this is a hardbat tournament?
                  > > >
                  > > > sorry for not getting the english well
                  > > >
                  > > > pete
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Ty Hoff
                  Sandpaper.
                  Message 8 of 27 , Dec 1, 2010
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                    Sandpaper.

                    --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "peter" <kusangloob@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > again, is this refer to sandpaper or hardbat ?
                    >
                    > the $100,000 tournament that they are offering? so called : pingpong of marty
                    >
                    > pete
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "peter" <kusangloob@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > well , sir . here we play sandpaper , the filipino way and smile a lot. even laugh.
                    > > stress really relieve out. win or loose it doesnt matter.
                    > >
                    > > i feel sorry for people who wouldnt even want to try this or play it the "wrong" way.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > pete
                    > >
                    > > --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "gnopgnipster" <gnopgnipster@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi Peter, everyone of the professional players in the sandman video, except for Marty, is a sponge player who was paid to smile. I have not seen any of them pick up a sandpaper racket again and $smile$
                    > > >
                    > > > On the other hand, some of them are playing hardbat.
                    > > >
                    > > > Cheers!
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "peter" <kusangloob@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > the sandman video is ----sandpaper
                    > > > >
                    > > > > sandman means "sand' get it ? thats why its called a "sandman"
                    > > > >
                    > > > > in that video cant you see that everybody enjoy hitting sandpaper in that video even the audience has a big smile. because it is a "spinless " game to begin with. "confiscate" that spin out and everybody is of the same level , now.
                    > > > > its more of "tactical" game now and not becsue you lose because of spin.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > how i wish down the road waldner will challenge us using sandpaper. i heard he use eveything but i never heard he use something going back to 'history' like sandpaper to show the world hes still tough even with a spinless game. the last i heard he uses is a banana,( imagine that ) a cellphone . but all of these are "novelty" - not historical. many times, these good guys are only good because they have the "spin" the friction. take that out and everybody is of the same level and no "mechanical " advantage.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > again this game is just an "add on" and not a replacement to the sponge game.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > xxxxxxxx
                    > > > >
                    > > > > now im confsue what is this world championship pingpong ?
                    > > > > is this hardbat or sandpaper bat ? . im sorry can anybody straightened this out.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > because the word itself "pingpong "is of sandpaper origin by parker brothers. . so i presume its sandpaper tournament? am i right? and oh gosh. they are using 40 mmm ball. of course hardbat play is 40 mm ball . so im a little bit confuse here. or this is a hardbat tournament?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > sorry for not getting the english well
                    > > > >
                    > > > > pete
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • peter
                    okay TY - thanks and they used 40 mm balls? -at least their kind of ruling? of course whoever make such tournament has the right to say what they want. this
                    Message 9 of 27 , Dec 2, 2010
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                      okay TY - thanks

                      and they used 40 mm balls? -at least their kind of ruling? of course whoever make such tournament has the right to say what they want.

                      this is all i want to know so far.

                      ----



                      even if this is hardbat. im still happy , no problem

                      theres a news wave of re-resurrect enthusiast here hardbat . in the Philippines, our tournament has just finished national open

                      many "sponger" here found out they can more easily adjust to hardbat than straight away to liha if they come from sponge.

                      the only "sad" thing i see , is that these new breed of hardbatter play the modern way coming down from sponge. they didnt play what i used to see way back then. they smash and counter smash . i was in deep shock! and our players are young , some beating our thought to be champ in hardbat : Richard gonzales by a straight set. ! it was all a brand new revelations and discovery.

                      the "chop art " of the olden days is still yet to be found. i only see such "chop art" when we play 'easy serve easy return rule' in our liha.

                      we call this " cultural " here. this is all i can say.

                      pete
                    • Neven Duzevic
                      penholder with hardbat was in past ┼żarko dolinar, croatian table tennis player in fifties. I play in normal competition hardbat penholder vs. reverse rubbers,
                      Message 10 of 27 , Dec 2, 2010
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                        penholder with hardbat was in past ┼żarko dolinar, croatian table tennis player in fifties. I play in normal competition hardbat penholder vs. reverse rubbers, and i play style like chinese penholders with pips out rubbers in 1980-2000 year in world competition, ok in most lower lewel. If you have enough fast rubber like butterfly othodox, or some like  this (frendhip 563 without sponge or very tiny sponge) it can work. I very often must change the game, it depends of player who is against me. From time to time i must chop some spins or block it with backhend, or play very spini-game with smashes againast players with pips-out rubbers on backhand. But most of the time i am choper-blocker with occasionally smashis  espacially on my service.



                        From: peter <kusangloob@...>
                        To: hardbat@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 10:51:57 AM
                        Subject: [hardbat] Re: World Championship of Ping Pong

                         


                        okay TY - thanks

                        and they used 40 mm balls? -at least their kind of ruling? of course whoever make such tournament has the right to say what they want.

                        this is all i want to know so far.

                        ----

                        even if this is hardbat. im still happy , no problem

                        theres a news wave of re-resurrect enthusiast here hardbat . in the Philippines, our tournament has just finished national open

                        many "sponger" here found out they can more easily adjust to hardbat than straight away to liha if they come from sponge.

                        the only "sad" thing i see , is that these new breed of hardbatter play the modern way coming down from sponge. they didnt play what i used to see way back then. they smash and counter smash . i was in deep shock! and our players are young , some beating our thought to be champ in hardbat : Richard gonzales by a straight set. ! it was all a brand new revelations and discovery.

                        the "chop art " of the olden days is still yet to be found. i only see such "chop art" when we play 'easy serve easy return rule' in our liha.

                        we call this " cultural " here. this is all i can say.

                        pete


                      • joseph.sabella
                        ... Agreed, hardbat rubber does still give the ball some extra artificial lift allowing a primarily topsin game to still have an advantage. That is what I love
                        Message 11 of 27 , Dec 3, 2010
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                          >
                          > many "sponger" here found out they can more easily adjust to hardbat than straight away to liha if they come from sponge.
                          >
                          > the only "sad" thing i see , is that these new breed of hardbatter play the modern way coming down from sponge. they didnt play what i used to see way back then. they smash and counter smash . i was in deep shock! and our players are young , some beating our thought to be champ in hardbat : Richard gonzales by a straight set. ! it was all a brand new revelations and discovery.
                          >
                          Agreed, hardbat rubber does still give the ball some extra artificial lift allowing a primarily topsin game to still have an advantage.

                          That is what I love so much about sandpaper, you can't just powerfully attack any ball. You need to be able to play mentally tough and grind out your points. You certainly can have a powerful attack with sandpaer, but you must be able to set it up with an all-around game and defense. If you try to topsin everything with sandpaper you will be at a dis-advantage. In many points you have to chop, use placement shots, and be able to drive the ball to win the point. And it slows down the game enough you can truly defend against any ball no matter how hard it is hit if it is not placed well. You can't just mindlessly outhit people, you have to set up your attack and win the points with strategy and have the all-around and defensive game to set up your attack. And a defensive style is actually on equal ground to an attacker.
                        • joseph.sabella
                          ... With the group I play sandpaper with in the US we still play normal serve rules, but it does not seem to prevent any chop art. Because sandpaper doesn t
                          Message 12 of 27 , Dec 3, 2010
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                            > the "chop art " of the olden days is still yet to be found. i only see such "chop art" when we play 'easy serve easy return rule' in our liha.
                            >
                            With the group I play sandpaper with in the US we still play normal serve rules, but it does not seem to prevent any "chop art." Because sandpaper doesn't produce much spin, and it doesn't react much to spin you can't really trick people into weak returns and 3rd ball attack. Rarely ever is there a missed return, 3rd ball attack or quick kill even without easy serve easy return. The typical return of most serves ends up being a low chop that can't be easily attacked right away so it sets up a good point to be played. Sandpaper kind of naturally works to set up rallies instead of 3rd ball attack from the serve. Rarely ever is a point one in the first few hits even without the easy serve easy return.
                          • wturber
                            ... That all makes sense to me. While I tend to be attack oriented, when playing sandpaper I often found myself forced to take a more defensive approach
                            Message 13 of 27 , Dec 3, 2010
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                              > That is what I love so much about sandpaper, you can't just powerfully attack any ball. You need to be able to play mentally tough and grind out your points. You certainly can have a powerful attack with sandpaer, but you must be able to set it up with an all-around game and defense. If you try to topsin everything with sandpaper you will be at a dis-advantage. In many points you have to chop, use placement shots, and be able to drive the ball to win the point. And it slows down the game enough you can truly defend against any ball no matter how hard it is hit if it is not placed well. You can't just mindlessly outhit people, you have to set up your attack and win the points with strategy and have the all-around and defensive game to set up your attack. And a defensive style is actually on equal ground to an attacker.

                              That all makes sense to me. While I tend to be attack oriented, when playing sandpaper I often found myself "forced" to take a more defensive approach than I would have with even hardbat. Topspin to topspin rallies can be made, but they are risky. Here's a link to some points selected from the U.S. Open for being faster than usual. But in these points you can see the players frequently have to shift to a defensive strategy to stay in the point and survive while trying to work for another attacking opportunity.

                              http://www.youtube.com/wturber#p/u/0/5ODoxXtjWlk

                              I'm not that skilled of a player and did not really practice with sandpaper prior to the U.S. Open. So I'm pretty sure my approach is too "high risk." But I suspect a player with greater skill could assert an attack oriented style of play fairly effectively.

                              When I went back and watch some of these sandpaper matches, I found myself thinking that the point by point strategy was not only more apparent, but it reminded me a bit of modern tennis where it becomes clear that the players are working for position and are winning points on well placed shots as much or more than they are winning them due to speed.

                              Jay
                            • dnorman
                              Thanks for the nice video. You were part of that marathon round robin that ended in a 3 way tie. Not often four good players meet in an opening round robin,
                              Message 14 of 27 , Dec 3, 2010
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                                Thanks for the nice video. You were part of that marathon round robin that ended in a 3 way tie. Not often four good players meet in an opening round robin, but the sandpaper event attracted mostly good hardbat players. It should be a good competitive event again at the closed in Vegas.

                                --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "wturber" <jay@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > > That is what I love so much about sandpaper, you can't just powerfully attack any ball. You need to be able to play mentally tough and grind out your points. You certainly can have a powerful attack with sandpaer, but you must be able to set it up with an all-around game and defense. If you try to topsin everything with sandpaper you will be at a dis-advantage. In many points you have to chop, use placement shots, and be able to drive the ball to win the point. And it slows down the game enough you can truly defend against any ball no matter how hard it is hit if it is not placed well. You can't just mindlessly outhit people, you have to set up your attack and win the points with strategy and have the all-around and defensive game to set up your attack. And a defensive style is actually on equal ground to an attacker.
                                >
                                > That all makes sense to me. While I tend to be attack oriented, when playing sandpaper I often found myself "forced" to take a more defensive approach than I would have with even hardbat. Topspin to topspin rallies can be made, but they are risky. Here's a link to some points selected from the U.S. Open for being faster than usual. But in these points you can see the players frequently have to shift to a defensive strategy to stay in the point and survive while trying to work for another attacking opportunity.
                                >
                                > http://www.youtube.com/wturber#p/u/0/5ODoxXtjWlk
                                >
                                > I'm not that skilled of a player and did not really practice with sandpaper prior to the U.S. Open. So I'm pretty sure my approach is too "high risk." But I suspect a player with greater skill could assert an attack oriented style of play fairly effectively.
                                >
                                > When I went back and watch some of these sandpaper matches, I found myself thinking that the point by point strategy was not only more apparent, but it reminded me a bit of modern tennis where it becomes clear that the players are working for position and are winning points on well placed shots as much or more than they are winning them due to speed.
                                >
                                > Jay
                                >
                              • wturber
                                Yes. We had a tough round robin. I was the weakest player, but all of my matches (and I lost all of them) went to three games. :^) Jay
                                Message 15 of 27 , Dec 3, 2010
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                                  Yes. We had a tough round robin. I was the weakest player, but all of my matches (and I lost all of them) went to three games. :^)

                                  Jay

                                  > Thanks for the nice video. You were part of that marathon round robin that ended in a 3 way tie. Not often four good players meet in an opening round robin, but the sandpaper event attracted mostly good hardbat players. It should be a good competitive event again at the closed in Vegas.
                                • peter
                                  see again website. http://www.worldchampionshipofpingpong.com/ click on = players. for U.S. trevor runyan was selected. for Philipines, they pick up jonjon
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jan 13, 2011
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                                    see again website.

                                    http://www.worldchampionshipofpingpong.com/

                                    click on = players.

                                    for U.S. trevor runyan was selected.

                                    for Philipines, they pick up jonjon ebuen
                                    why? i dont know and is very puzzled.
                                    jon is there america and is good at sponge no problem i admit
                                    but for liha , - i still has my "doubt"
                                    he is not at all a lihador. but of course that doesnt mean he cant join or be pick up.
                                    the true lihadors and lihadores like for example , jones baldonado called up, even jane chui and was trying to get in
                                    door close sorry. and its even just for men. poor jane.

                                    they will only allow players which they see fit for their purpose. .

                                    i then trying to analyze , look below of their description :

                                    will bring together the best players from around the world to compete

                                    so ,it didnt meant the best ' liha ' players from around the world .
                                    perhaps they are not really that serious to target that. and its all about marketing "publicity" and just for a "show" ?

                                    cant the public already understand by now that the best sponge players doesnt mean they are also good at sandpaper? and sandpaper has a different world ???? so you bring a good karate player and bring to tai chi or say" judo" and expect to see the best of another set of discipline ? just because they are the same, so called " martial art so to speak . how about calling muhamad ali to play karate. they are all martial art anyway ahahah.

                                    the best liha player is Richard Gonzales of the Philipines, and i will repeat that 100 times. same with hardbat!
                                    hes not known yet outside of Philippines and unfortunately not proven yet thru outside competition regarding this because becasue he is not given the opportunity yet. at one time he is in U.S. open playing sponge. but former leaders here dont know how to diplomatically put him to hardbat, till i attempted last year but was denied by the embassy of visa for some strange reason.
                                    poor richard , a boy who grew up from liha and hardbat all his life. when we play for 20 points or 21 points he will simply give me in advance say 13 points and i still have a hardtime wiinning. so you imagine that. just no comparison.

                                    i dont know if i am right , even using the name Philippines, is somewhat unethical , illegal. they should have even ask for permission here first for a more legal approach. unless its jsut all for a "show" that is all.

                                    jon happens to be more known in america . so perhaps the best subject to pick up from quite instantly for their publicity purpose for greater impact

                                    xxxxxxxxxxx

                                    anyway, still good luck jon. play good for Philippines ! perhaps you have learn the sandpaper way of playing. who knows. ? so we will not pre judge people now till its been played. or jon may be just good enough to win the grand prize. and if you guys see jon, tell him to have a hit with you in liha or hardbat and yes still patronize both vintage play.

                                    nevertheless, if this really pushes thru, im still happy becasue sandpaper playing means is getting ahead and is now heavily invested like $100,000.

                                    how i wish waldner will play sandpaper ahahahah and the so called
                                    " level playing field. - no mechanical advantage like liha ! if he cant win in hardbat what is his chance in no spin = liha ? so i hope Ricahrd has a chance to prove himself. both in liha and in hardbat down the road and another lad of ours by the name of joseph cruz! and jane told me there is a next time amuwau late this year according to the gentlemen he spoke to and thats according to jane. perhaps somebody here can verify that. phone number below.


                                    xxxxxxxxxx

                                    closely study their description now :


                                    The Championship is being hosted by the Palms Casino Resort in the best sports venue in Las Vegas, the Pearl Theater. The inaugural World Championship of Ping Pong (WCPP) will bring together the best players from around the world to compete in a tournament like no other on February 7th and 8th, 2011. The Championship will be televised in eight one-hour episodes and air on Fox Sports Net and in 800 million homes globally, raising the sport from dusty basements to the major international sporting stage.


                                    The event will provide several unique concepts to the sport. It will feature custom WCPP racquets made of sandpaper. The event, for the first time in championship competition, will introduce a 2-point ball that can be used once per game by each player. The second event will be the Marco Polo Cup, which will feature the `Asian Team' versus the `World Team'. The finals will introduce a new format to the sport, called "the Rumble", in which each team athlete plays until he loses a point and the serve changes hand after each point. This new exciting format promises to make the game more dynamic, stimulating greater fan interest.


                                    Thanks,
                                    Bryan
                                    212-953-3000
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