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Re: Glue! Baby, Glue!

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  • Jay Turberville
    OK. The hardbat version is ready for primetime. http://www.youtube.com/v/3t7uYMexfnU Well, actually I think this was a bit overcompressed and I think I may
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 3, 2008
      OK. The hardbat version is ready for primetime.

      http://www.youtube.com/v/3t7uYMexfnU

      Well, actually I think this was a bit overcompressed and I think I may
      re-upload a better quality version.

      Jay Turberville
      www.jayandwanda.com
    • Tandy Goldberg
      Dear Jay, How do the glue sheets compare with using glue for gluing racket coverings onto the racket? Best wishes, Tandy G. Promotion Hardbat International
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 5, 2008
        Dear Jay,

        How do the glue sheets compare with using glue for gluing racket
        coverings onto the racket?

        Best wishes,

        Tandy G.
        Promotion
        Hardbat International


        On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Jay Turberville <jay@...> wrote:
        > OK. The hardbat version is ready for primetime.
        >
        > http://www.youtube.com/v/3t7uYMexfnU
        >
        > Well, actually I think this was a bit overcompressed and I think I may
        > re-upload a better quality version.
        >
        > Jay Turberville
        > www.jayandwanda.com
        >
        >
      • Robert Palgon
        This presentation -- as well as your previous one, are extremely useful, and a reflection of the intelligence, logic, and presentation skills of the maker.
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 8, 2008
          This presentation -- as well as your previous one, are extremely
          useful, and a reflection of the intelligence, logic, and presentation
          skills of the maker. Thank you so much, Jay, for doing it.

          Bob Palgon

          --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Turberville" <jay@...> wrote:
          >
          > OK. The hardbat version is ready for primetime.
          >
          > http://www.youtube.com/v/3t7uYMexfnU
          >
          > Well, actually I think this was a bit overcompressed and I think I may
          > re-upload a better quality version.
          >
          > Jay Turberville
          > www.jayandwanda.com
          >
        • Jay Turberville
          ... What I ve gathered from some of the long pip OX users suggests that glue sheets tend to deaden the rubber somewhat. In fact, there are specific brands
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 19, 2008
            > How do the glue sheets compare with using glue for gluing racket
            > coverings onto the racket?

            What I've gathered from some of the long pip OX users suggests that
            glue sheets tend to deaden the rubber somewhat. In fact, there are
            specific brands that deaden the rubber even more than normal.

            Many people favor the use of glue sheets because it makes gluing OX
            rubber quick and easy. VOC containing rubber cements (which is what I
            think has been most often used traditionally) will cause the rubber to
            deform temporarily until the rubber has dried.

            OTOH, water based latex glues like TearMender are quite easy. I'm
            going to be making another video that will show both Sponge and OX pips
            rubber being glued with TearMender using a simpler and better method
            than I've used in the past. In short, you simply but a layer of glue
            on the blade and before it really gets a chance to drie, you attach the
            rubber which has had no glue applied to it. Roller it nice and flat
            and trim once the glue has set. That's it. Nice and simple. It seems
            to hold very well and it gives a nice even glue job.

            Jay Turberville
            www.jayandwanda.com
          • gnopgnipster
            I have used glue sheets before and I don t like them. On one occassion when I removed the rubber sheet the glue sheet had sort of melted into the wood and I
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 19, 2008
              I have used glue sheets before and I don't like them. On one
              occassion when I removed the rubber sheet the glue sheet had sort of
              melted into the wood and I could not get it off. I have used the Tear
              Mender following Jay's video instructions and it works great.
              Cheers! and see you in Vegas.

              --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "Tandy Goldberg" <gusikoff1959@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Dear Jay,
              >
              > How do the glue sheets compare with using glue for gluing racket
              > coverings onto the racket?
              >
              > Best wishes,
              >
              > Tandy G.
              > Promotion
              > Hardbat International
              >
              >
              > On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Jay Turberville <jay@...> wrote:
              > > OK. The hardbat version is ready for primetime.
              > >
              > > http://www.youtube.com/v/3t7uYMexfnU
              > >
              > > Well, actually I think this was a bit overcompressed and I think
              I may
              > > re-upload a better quality version.
              > >
              > > Jay Turberville
              > > www.jayandwanda.com
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Jay Turberville
              ... I suggest you try just using a single layer on the blade and no glue on the rubber. I think this is superior to the method I showed on the video. Very
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 20, 2008
                > I have used the Tear
                > Mender following Jay's video instructions and it works great.
                > Cheers!

                I suggest you try just using a single layer on the blade and no glue
                on the rubber. I think this is superior to the method I showed on
                the video. Very little to no glue gets squeezed out when you roller
                the sheet and you have a few moments where the rubber floats on the
                glue that allow you to reposition the rubber if necessary.

                I shot more video showing this method on Sunday, but I haven't had
                time to edit it. Of course, you don't need the video to understand
                the difference and figure out how to do this.

                I also used an abrasive scrubbing pad to rough up the smooth side of
                the OX rubber. I think this helps the rubber adhere a bit.

                Jay Turberville
                www.jayandwanda.com
              • Tom Kluegel
                Hi Jay, I watched the video back when you posted it. At the time, I got the impression that the the reason your new method resulted in a smoother surface was
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 20, 2008
                  Hi Jay,

                  I watched the video back when you posted it. At the time, I got
                  the impression that the the reason your new method resulted in a
                  smoother surface was that you put the glue on both surfaces which
                  allowed the glue to be more fluid under the rubber and resulting
                  in fewer irregularities which aren't smoothed out by the roller.

                  -- Tom Kluegel

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Jay Turberville
                  To: hardbat@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:27
                  Subject: [hardbat] Re: Glue! Baby, Glue!

                  > I have used the Tear
                  > Mender following Jay's video instructions and it works great.
                  > Cheers!

                  I suggest you try just using a single layer on the blade and no
                  glue
                  on the rubber. I think this is superior to the method I showed on
                  the video. Very little to no glue gets squeezed out when you
                  roller
                  the sheet and you have a few moments where the rubber floats on
                  the
                  glue that allow you to reposition the rubber if necessary.

                  I shot more video showing this method on Sunday, but I haven't had
                  time to edit it. Of course, you don't need the video to
                  understand
                  the difference and figure out how to do this.

                  I also used an abrasive scrubbing pad to rough up the smooth side
                  of
                  the OX rubber. I think this helps the rubber adhere a bit.

                  Jay Turberville
                  www.jayandwanda.com
                • Jay Turberville
                  ... I think the result was smoother because there was less dried rubber. I think the smoothness issue is caused by water born latex coagulating and that once
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 20, 2008
                    > I watched the video back when you posted it. At the time, I got
                    > the impression that the the reason your new method resulted in a
                    > smoother surface was that you put the glue on both surfaces which
                    > allowed the glue to be more fluid under the rubber and resulting
                    > in fewer irregularities which aren't smoothed out by the roller.

                    I think the result was smoother because there was less dried rubber. I
                    think the smoothness issue is caused by water born latex "coagulating"
                    and that once coagulated it is solid and no longer fluid or soluble in
                    the water "solvent. With traditional VOC glues, the rubber remains
                    soluble and I suspect has varying degrees of fluidity as it dries. So
                    rollering out a contact glued rubber cement sandwich can
                    probably "goosh" the semi-liquid cement around and level it out a bit
                    more.

                    So the idea behind the newer and simpler TearMender method is to simply
                    eliminate the drying stage that is typical of "contact" type gluing
                    jobs. The fact that the sandwich is rollered while the glue is almost
                    completely liquid seems to be what guarantees the smooth glue job.

                    If it were possible to lay down a perfectly smooth and level layer of
                    TearMender, then the contact cement approach would probably work very
                    well instead of just OK.

                    I played around with a method that used a fine tooth saw blade as
                    a "trowel" that would leave an even layer of glue by straining the glue
                    through glue teeth, but decided it was simply too much trouble and the
                    blade put small fine scratches on the surface of the blade's wood. A
                    smart table tennis glue manufacturer could probably include such a
                    special made tool with their glue rather than a sponge.

                    Anybody should feel free to experiment with other methods. There may
                    be better approaches than what I've found. It is pretty easy to remove
                    the TearMender and try again if you don't like the results.

                    Jay Turberville
                    www.jayandwanda.com
                  • John Starr
                    Back in the old days of Chack, I used to watch DJ Lee gluee sheets of rubber on the paddles he would sell. He always poured the glue on the blade and used the
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 20, 2008
                      Back in the old days of Chack, I used to watch DJ Lee gluee sheets of
                      rubber on the paddles he would sell. He always poured the glue on the
                      blade and used the sponge of the rubber sheet to spread it. He would
                      apply the rubber while the glue was still wet and smooth it out with a
                      small steel bar.

                      J*
                    • Jay Turberville
                      ... the ... a ... Interesting. Part of the reason I tried putting glue on just the blade is that I was discussing the issue with John Harrington last Monday
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 21, 2008
                        > Back in the old days of Chack, I used to watch DJ Lee gluee sheets of
                        > rubber on the paddles he would sell. He always poured the glue on
                        the
                        > blade and used the sponge of the rubber sheet to spread it. He would
                        > apply the rubber while the glue was still wet and smooth it out with
                        a
                        > small steel bar.

                        Interesting. Part of the reason I tried putting glue on just the blade
                        is that I was discussing the issue with John Harrington last Monday
                        while playing doubles (John and I were playing hardbat) and he
                        described something very similar.

                        I just glued a new sheet of sponge tonight and had no problem trimming
                        the rubber after letting the glue job set for about twenty minutes. I
                        suspect you could trim after five minutes actually. The edges dry
                        first, so it doesn't take very long before the edges are stable.

                        Jay Turberville
                        www.jayandwanda.com
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