Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

questions on how hardbat group came into being ???

Expand Messages
  • kusangloob
    questions on how hardbat group came into being ??? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Please excuse me for questions: How did the harbat group came into existence anyway? Is
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 1, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      questions on how hardbat group came into being ???

      xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx




      Please excuse me for questions:

      How did the harbat group came into existence anyway?

      Is this approved /recognized by the ittf ,I mean to form hardbat
      group as a "variant" ? Did you guys present this to the ittf
      congress about hardbat grouping ?

      If im right its about 10 years that has passed of its association for
      u.s.a ? don't know if i had read it right?

      I know harbdat is a kind of blade had long being played anyway
      ,even allowed to play against rubber with sponge ( at my time say 30
      years ago ) late 70's

      So now you gentlemen had separated yourself? Is that the idea? Seen
      as Sponge rubber should play against sponge rubber, hardbat strictly
      with hardbat players am I correct?

      I must apologise for newbie like me to sneak in and ask these questions
      But im sure these are very basic questions not hard for random answering

      Im abit concern and surprise because nowadays I play sandpaper and
      plain wood for a "comeback" or i should rather say a "fallback"
      for health reasons and I didnt know its not consider part of the
      "hardbat" group that westerner call it. It still has it rule
      limitation against wood and sandpaper

      by the way, Don't know if the family name abad of mr. andy's is of
      Filipino descend and is from here Philippines ??( i am guessing )

      Best,
      Pete
      philippines
    • Jay Turberville
      Others can answer to the history much better than I can. And personally, I m interested in hearing some of that as well. But to answer some of your questions:
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 1, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Others can answer to the history much better than I can. And
        personally, I'm interested in hearing some of that as well.

        But to answer some of your questions:

        No, the ITTF does not recognize hardbat in any distinct way.

        The USATT does recognize hardbat and hardbat events and apparently has
        a "Hardbat Committee" that formed the rule subset and is in charge of
        evolving and updating hardbat rules. IMO, this does not separate
        hardbat from the rest of table tennis. It actually allows hardbat to
        be combined with regular USATT events while also creating distinct
        hardbat divisions. If you are playing with a legal hardbat, you can
        also use that racquet in any USATT regular event and it does not have
        to follow the regular two color (red / black) rubber rule. So the
        approach seems to be to embrace hardbat, but also to allow for
        distinct hardbat only events. There is no such thing as a sponge only
        event.

        http://www.usatt.org/news/hardbatproposal.shtml

        BTW, it is perfectly possible to have a hardbat that is legal for
        hardbat, USATT, and ITTF events. Simply use an all wood blade with
        one sheet (red and black) of the same rubber on both sides that is
        both hardbat committee and ITTF approved. I plan on turning one of my
        old Donic Waldner Allplay into a hardbat by putting a couple sheets of
        Dr. Evil on each side. It will be interesting to see how that combo
        plays in comparison to the more "classic" hardbat that I got from Tim
        Wright.

        http://www.hardbat.com/index2.html

        You will find a wide variety of opinions about the proper place for
        hardbat in table tennis among hardbat users. For instance, I'm new to
        hardbat. I see it as an interesting and enjoyable variant to the
        game. I find playing hardbat (and I've only played a little bit)
        informs me about issues and weaknesses and potential strategies in my
        sponge game. It also provides me a mental break from the highly spin
        dominated sponge game. I see hardbat as one of the many variants along
        with sponge, anti-spin, long pips, pips out etc. I'm happy to embrace
        all of the variants as part of legitimate table tennis.

        Others, however, consider hardbat to be the one and only "true" game
        of table tennis and see sponge equipment as having had a big negative
        effect on the game putting too much emphasis on equipment and
        technology. There is no unified, one mind among hard bat players,
        other than perhaps that all of them like playing hardbat.

        Yes, the committee was apparently split on bare wood/sandpaper
        decision making a close call to not include those options. There
        seems to be potential to get that decision reversed though. Scott
        Gordon is probably the one who can give the best insight on how people
        wanting that change should procede. He and Tim Wright beat myself and
        Wayne Johnson while in Phoenix recently in a doubles match using
        sandpaper bats that Tim had made.

        I hope that helps. As I said, I'm new to playing hardbat, but I am
        enjoying it. And enjoying the play should be the main thing IMO.

        Jay Turberville
        www.jayandwanda.com
      • Reverend Gordon
        Hi Pete! ... In 1997 Dr. Michael Scott convinced the USATT to include a hardbat event in the U.S. Nationals. It was the first time a hardbat event had been
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 1, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Pete!
          Welcome to hardbat! I'll try to answer your questions:

          > How did the harbat group came into existence anyway?

          In 1997 Dr. Michael Scott convinced the USATT to include a hardbat
          event in the U.S. Nationals. It was the first time a hardbat event
          had been included in such a major tournament in at least 10 years.
          67-year-old Marty Reisman entered the event and won, defeating
          players much younger than he. He even won one of the semifinal games
          21-0. In winning the event, he was in all probability the oldest
          person to win an open (all age) title in a racquet sport. The win
          made a large sensation in the U.S., largely because it was seen as
          proving that the two styles of play are indeed very different, but
          also because many of the games were perceived as unusually exciting
          and dramatic. Many entrants had never seen classic-style flat-hitting
          vs. chopping before, and had no idea that it was possible to play at
          a high level with a hardbat.

          At the U.S. the following June, the event had doubled in size and
          featured a large prize fund that had been collected through
          donations. That event was won by Danny Seemiller.

          Around the same time, USATT president Jim McQueen approached me and
          asked if I would chair a newly-proposed USATT hardbat committee. It
          was felt that hardbat was of growing interest and they needed a group
          of individuals to draw up rules and determine how best to promote
          this version of the game. Over the next several years, we did indeed
          draw up rules, set up ratings, and even had a newsletter. To be
          honest, we were not very successful in promotion. However, within 3
          or 4 years, hardbat events started sprouting up throughout Europe and
          other parts of the world.

          About 3 years ago I became frustrated and burned out trying to
          organize the hardbat movement, and resigned as the committee
          chairman. The current chairman is Mike Babuin.

          > Is this approved /recognized by the ittf ,I mean to form hardbat
          > group as a "variant" ? Did you guys present this to the ittf
          > congress about hardbat grouping ?

          I have had numerous email exchanges over the years with the equipment
          committee of the ITTF, and its chairman Odd Gustavsen. I also have
          worked very closely with the ITTF International Table Tennis Museum
          and its curator Chuck Hoey, who is a strong supporter of hardbat. I
          think that Odd himself has a passing interest in hardbat, too.
          However, the ITTF has never expressed any interest in or recognition
          of hardbat whatsoever. In fact, their most recent changes governing
          short pips has made our job harder. I exchanged many heated letters
          with Mr. Gustavsen about this, and frankly they don't care. Their
          only duty is to the international players, tournament directors, and
          sponsors. Hardbat serves none of them, and I doubt the sponsors
          (meaning equipment manufacturers) would be terribly thrilled at
          players using paddles that may last 2 or 3 years.

          In fact, the ETTA has on occasion actively discouraged clubs from
          holding hardbat events, even to the point of threatening them with
          disbarment. The USATT has been considerably more supportive of us.

          > If im right its about 10 years that has passed of its association
          for
          > u.s.a ? don't know if i had read it right?

          That's about right.

          > I know harbdat is a kind of blade had long being played anyway
          > ,even allowed to play against rubber with sponge ( at my time say
          30
          > years ago ) late 70's

          It is STILL legal to use hardbat against sponge in any tournament in
          the world, as long as the surfaces are ITTF-legal. The last person
          to win a notable title with a hardbat against sponge play was in the
          late 1960s when Patty Martinez won the women's singles championship
          using a hardbat.

          > So now you gentlemen had separated yourself? Is that the idea? Seen
          > as Sponge rubber should play against sponge rubber, hardbat strictly
          > with hardbat players am I correct?

          The USATT hardbat committee has no plan to separate from the USATT.
          We hold hardbat events at USATT tournaments, and many hardbat players
          (such as myself, Bob Palgon, and some 60 or 70 others) use hardbat
          even in sponge events. There are, however, many hardbat players who
          think it would be best to create a new association just for hardbat.
          That hasn't happened yet, and I don't know whether it would be wise
          or not. I can see both sides of the argument.

          > Im abit concern and surprise because nowadays I play sandpaper and
          > plain wood for a "comeback" or i should rather say a "fallback"
          > for health reasons and I didnt know its not consider part of the
          > "hardbat" group that westerner call it. It still has it rule
          > limitation against wood and sandpaper

          There is growing interest in sandpaper, and it is possible that
          someday it might become legal in the future in hardbat play. I
          suspect that if enough people approach Mike Babuin, he could set up
          another committee vote. There would probably be a lot of debate
          again, because there would be some ramifications, such as how to
          define a legal sandpaper surface.

          Regarding Andy Abad... he posts to this group, so perhaps he will
          answer your question.

          Feel free to ask any other questions you might have.

          best wishes,
          Scott
        • kusangloob
          Hi Pete! Welcome to hardbat! I ll try to answer your questions: = Please sir please ! This is mr. peter cua a former national player of the Philippines , in
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 2, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Pete!


            Welcome to hardbat! I'll try to answer your questions:

            = Please sir please !

            This is mr. peter cua a former national player of the Philippines ,
            in about 30 years ago. Now in deep research about this.



            > How did the harbat group came into existence anyway?

            In 1997 Dr. Michael Scott convinced the USATT to include a hardbat
            event in the U.S. Nationals. It was the first time a hardbat event
            had been included in such a major tournament in at least 10 years.
            67-year-old Marty Reisman entered the event and won, defeating
            players much younger than he. He even won one of the semifinal games
            21-0.
            = oh boy 21-0 !!!


            In winning the event, he was in all probability the oldest
            person to win an open (all age) title in a racquet sport. The win
            made a large sensation in the U.S. , largely because it was seen as
            proving that the two styles of play are indeed very different

            = yes it is.


            ut
            also because many of the games were perceived as unusually exciting
            and dramatic.
            = perhaps because f of tis long rally and defence.

            Many entrants had never seen classic-style flat-hitting
            vs. chopping before, and had no idea that it was possible to play at
            a high level with a hardbat.
            = yes sir
            I
            xxxxxxxxxxxx

            At the U.S. the following June, the event had doubled in size and
            featured a large prize fund that had been collected through
            donations. That event was won by Danny Seemiller.
            = I see , isee

            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

            Around the same time, USATT president Jim McQueen approached me and
            asked if I would chair a newly-proposed USATT hardbat committee. It
            was felt that hardbat was of growing interest and they needed a group
            of individuals to draw up rules and determine how best to promote
            this version of the game.
            = okay

            For harbat here we only peceived these as "barna" bat of England ,
            A few only ahd use this before. And many passed away.
            Im sorry to say. Theres no more barna player here.

            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


            Over the next several years, we did indeed
            draw up rules, set up ratings, and even had a newsletter. To be
            honest, we were not very successful in promotion.
            = okay

            However, within 3
            or 4 years, hardbat events started sprouting up throughout Europe and
            other parts of the world.
            = oh really okay

            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

            About 3 years ago I became frustrated and burned out trying to
            organize the hardbat movement, and resigned as the committee
            chairman. The current chairman is Mike Babuin.
            = I see

            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

            > Is this approved /recognized by the ittf ,I mean to form hardbat
            > group as a "variant" ? Did you guys present this to the ittf
            > congress about hardbat grouping ?

            I have had numerous email exchanges over the years with the equipment
            committee of the ITTF, and its chairman Odd Gustavsen.
            = I see sir. I really wish to hear it. It is our intention to make
            appeal to ittf soon about our sandpaper and barewood



            I also have
            worked very closely with the ITTF International Table Tennis Museum
            and its curator Chuck Hoey,
            = i spoke with athe current curator , he also plays sandpaper



            who is a strong supporter of hardbat. I
            think that Odd himself has a passing interest in hardbat, too.
            However, the ITTF has never expressed any interest in or recognition
            of hardbat whatsoever
            = oh boy! Oh boy!!!



            . In fact, their most recent changes governing
            short pips has made our job harder.
            = i might realise tha.


            I exchanged many heated letters
            with Mr. Gustavsen about this, and frankly they don't care.
            = oh boy! Oh boy!


            Their
            only duty is to the international players, tournament directors, and
            sponsors. Hardbat serves none of them,
            = yes I was very very much afraid of that
            commercialism sets in !!!!



            and I doubt the sponsors
            (meaning equipment manufacturers) would be terribly thrilled at
            players using paddles that may last 2 or 3 years.
            = you mean thats not good for their business.
            Oh boy! Yes I have thought of that



            In fact, the ETTA has on occasion actively discouraged clubs from
            holding hardbat events,
            = oh boy! Oh boy


            even to the point of threatening them with
            disbarment.
            = oh my gosh! THIS MAKES ME SICK.
            We must be ready as to what we should do.
            "Storm "ahead if we are to do it.



            The USATT has been considerably more supportive of us.
            = who is usatt? Your won self American group you mean ?

            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

            > If im right its about 10 years that has passed of its association
            for
            > u.s.a ? don't know if i had read it right?

            That's about right.

            I know harbdat is a kind of blade had long being played anyway
            > ,even allowed to play against rubber with sponge ( at my time say
            30years ago ) late 70's

            It is STILL legal to use hardbat against sponge in any tournament in
            the world, as long as the surfaces are ITTF-legal.

            = yes sir!


            The last person
            to win a notable title with a hardbat against sponge play was in the
            late 1960s when Patty Martinez won the women's singles championship
            using a hardbat.
            = tha long? 1960's ahahahah

            xxxxxxxxxxx

            > So now you gentlemen had separated yourself? Is that the idea? Seen
            > as Sponge rubber should play against sponge rubber, hardbat strictly
            > with hardbat players am I correct?

            The USATT hardbat committee has no plan to separate from the USATT.
            We hold hardbat events at USATT tournaments, and many hardbat players
            (such as myself, Bob Palgon, and some 60 or 70 others) use hardbat
            even in sponge events.
            = I see so hardbat playing with sponge . Okay no big deal , nothing new.

            Some of my colegeue in songe rubber just came back U.S. Open they
            said they saw hard bat. They thought ,they thought because of the word
            (hard ) it includes sandpers and barewood play

            I know something is very wrong in perceiving these. Im trying to
            explain to them the confusion

            xxxxxxxxxx



            There are, however, many hardbat players who
            think it would be best to create a new association just for hardbat.
            = but I see in intricate there is even so called hardbat federation.
            Even the word exist!!! How big is this. ?

            xxxxxxxxxxxx




            That hasn't happened yet, and I don't know whether it would be wise
            or not. I can see both sides of the argument.

            > Im abit concern and surprise because nowadays I play sandpaper and
            > plain wood for a "comeback" or i should rather say a "fallback"
            > for health reasons and I didnt know its not consider part of the
            > "hardbat" group that westerner call it. It still has it rule
            > limitation against wood and sandpaper

            There is growing interest in sandpaper,
            = sir we are the champion !! philippines
            80's of refinement even other world somewhat left this out.

            Some clubs are manily for sandpapr and barewood like where mr.
            andy abad belongs to here in the Philippines



            and it is possible that
            someday it might become legal in the future in hardbat play.
            = I wonder how we can speed up the process

            I
            suspect that if enough people approach Mike Babuin, he could set up
            another committee vote. There would probably be a lot of debate
            again, because there would be some ramifications, such as how to
            define a legal sandpaper surface.
            = I see now difficulty why any problme should arise in sandpaper , it
            isthe most simple bat in the world !



            Regarding Andy Abad... he posts to this group, so perhaps he will
            answer your question.
            = eys he is in our group in the Philippines
            a typical sandpaper filipino player here in the philipine ,
            And I now see his dilemna!!!

            From one mile I also ready detect he is one of us.




            Feel free to ask any other questions you might have.


            = from history Philippines and American are strong ally. !!

            Pingpong diplomacy must work not only between U.s. and china
            it must work with this country too towards all countries

            I myself is even introducing : "pingpong tourism "
            I see pingpong in a new perspective now after coming back to pingpong


            I have many filipino national team collegue in U.s. who is still in
            pingpong

            how we wish somehow our sandpaper and barewood will be accepted as
            a 'variant in your country and we can even pay a visit there or even
            vice versa in the near future for friendship play and tour

            all the best
            pete
            philippines










            --- In hardbat@yahoogroups.com, "Reverend Gordon" <sgordon@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Pete!
            > Welcome to hardbat! I'll try to answer your questions:
            >
            > > How did the harbat group came into existence anyway?
            >
            > In 1997 Dr. Michael Scott convinced the USATT to include a hardbat
            > event in the U.S. Nationals. It was the first time a hardbat event
            > had been included in such a major tournament in at least 10 years.
            > 67-year-old Marty Reisman entered the event and won, defeating
            > players much younger than he. He even won one of the semifinal games
            > 21-0. In winning the event, he was in all probability the oldest
            > person to win an open (all age) title in a racquet sport. The win
            > made a large sensation in the U.S., largely because it was seen as
            > proving that the two styles of play are indeed very different, but
            > also because many of the games were perceived as unusually exciting
            > and dramatic. Many entrants had never seen classic-style flat-hitting
            > vs. chopping before, and had no idea that it was possible to play at
            > a high level with a hardbat.
            >
            > At the U.S. the following June, the event had doubled in size and
            > featured a large prize fund that had been collected through
            > donations. That event was won by Danny Seemiller.
            >
            > Around the same time, USATT president Jim McQueen approached me and
            > asked if I would chair a newly-proposed USATT hardbat committee. It
            > was felt that hardbat was of growing interest and they needed a group
            > of individuals to draw up rules and determine how best to promote
            > this version of the game. Over the next several years, we did indeed
            > draw up rules, set up ratings, and even had a newsletter. To be
            > honest, we were not very successful in promotion. However, within 3
            > or 4 years, hardbat events started sprouting up throughout Europe and
            > other parts of the world.
            >
            > About 3 years ago I became frustrated and burned out trying to
            > organize the hardbat movement, and resigned as the committee
            > chairman. The current chairman is Mike Babuin.
            >
            > > Is this approved /recognized by the ittf ,I mean to form hardbat
            > > group as a "variant" ? Did you guys present this to the ittf
            > > congress about hardbat grouping ?
            >
            > I have had numerous email exchanges over the years with the equipment
            > committee of the ITTF, and its chairman Odd Gustavsen. I also have
            > worked very closely with the ITTF International Table Tennis Museum
            > and its curator Chuck Hoey, who is a strong supporter of hardbat. I
            > think that Odd himself has a passing interest in hardbat, too.
            > However, the ITTF has never expressed any interest in or recognition
            > of hardbat whatsoever. In fact, their most recent changes governing
            > short pips has made our job harder. I exchanged many heated letters
            > with Mr. Gustavsen about this, and frankly they don't care. Their
            > only duty is to the international players, tournament directors, and
            > sponsors. Hardbat serves none of them, and I doubt the sponsors
            > (meaning equipment manufacturers) would be terribly thrilled at
            > players using paddles that may last 2 or 3 years.
            >
            > In fact, the ETTA has on occasion actively discouraged clubs from
            > holding hardbat events, even to the point of threatening them with
            > disbarment. The USATT has been considerably more supportive of us.
            >
            > > If im right its about 10 years that has passed of its association
            > for
            > > u.s.a ? don't know if i had read it right?
            >
            > That's about right.
            >
            > > I know harbdat is a kind of blade had long being played anyway
            > > ,even allowed to play against rubber with sponge ( at my time say
            > 30
            > > years ago ) late 70's
            >
            > It is STILL legal to use hardbat against sponge in any tournament in
            > the world, as long as the surfaces are ITTF-legal. The last person
            > to win a notable title with a hardbat against sponge play was in the
            > late 1960s when Patty Martinez won the women's singles championship
            > using a hardbat.
            >
            > > So now you gentlemen had separated yourself? Is that the idea? Seen
            > > as Sponge rubber should play against sponge rubber, hardbat strictly
            > > with hardbat players am I correct?
            >
            > The USATT hardbat committee has no plan to separate from the USATT.
            > We hold hardbat events at USATT tournaments, and many hardbat players
            > (such as myself, Bob Palgon, and some 60 or 70 others) use hardbat
            > even in sponge events. There are, however, many hardbat players who
            > think it would be best to create a new association just for hardbat.
            > That hasn't happened yet, and I don't know whether it would be wise
            > or not. I can see both sides of the argument.
            >
            > > Im abit concern and surprise because nowadays I play sandpaper and
            > > plain wood for a "comeback" or i should rather say a "fallback"
            > > for health reasons and I didnt know its not consider part of the
            > > "hardbat" group that westerner call it. It still has it rule
            > > limitation against wood and sandpaper
            >
            > There is growing interest in sandpaper, and it is possible that
            > someday it might become legal in the future in hardbat play. I
            > suspect that if enough people approach Mike Babuin, he could set up
            > another committee vote. There would probably be a lot of debate
            > again, because there would be some ramifications, such as how to
            > define a legal sandpaper surface.
            >
            > Regarding Andy Abad... he posts to this group, so perhaps he will
            > answer your question.
            >
            > Feel free to ask any other questions you might have.
            >
            > best wishes,
            > Scott
            >
          • kusangloob
            Re: questions on how hardbat group came into being ??? Others can answer to the history much better than I can. And personally, I m interested in hearing some
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 2, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Re: questions on how hardbat group came into being ???

              Others can answer to the history much better than I can. And
              personally, I'm interested in hearing some of that as well.
              But to answer some of your questions:

              No, the ITTF does not recognize hardbat in any distinct way.
              = oh boy !
              We are contemplating to do this for sandpaper and woodracket
              make an appeal to have it recognize as a "variant" or take out the "
              illegal " status as put by ittf way before.

              'ROUGH ROAD 'AHEAD!!!! AFTER HEARING THIS WHAT HAPPENED HARBAT !

              ----------



              The USATT does recognize hardbat and hardbat events and apparently
              has
              a "Hardbat Committee" that formed the rule subset and is in charge of
              evolving and updating hardbat rules.
              = stands for -the united states of amreican table tennis.
              Right. ?




              IMO, this does not separate
              hardbat from the rest of table tennis. It actually allows hardbat to
              be combined with regular USATT events while also creating distinct
              hardbat divisions.
              = they can go in any rubber sponge event
              and yet has a separate event for hardcore hardbat too – do i
              understand this correctly? .?

              xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


              If you are playing with a legal hardbat, you can
              also use that racquet in any USATT regular event and it does not
              haveo follow the regular two color (red / black) rubber rule.
              = I see.

              So the
              approach seems to be to embrace hardbat, but also to allow for
              distinct hardbat only events. There is no such thing as a sponge only
              event.
              = okay, when i say sponge it mean sponge with rubber.


              xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

              BTW, it is perfectly possible to have a hardbat that is legal for
              hardbat, USATT, and ITTF events. Simply use an all wood blade with
              one sheet (red and black) of the same rubber on both sides that is
              both hardbat committee and ITTF approved.
              = i see

              I plan on turning one of my
              old Donic Waldner Allplay into a hardbat by putting a couple sheets
              ofDr. Evil on each side. It will be interesting to see how that combo
              plays in comparison to the more "classic" hardbat that I got from Tim
              Wright.

              = okay


              You will find a wide variety of opinions about the proper place for
              hardbat in table tennis among hardbat users.

              = I guess so and reasons why not stick to just sponge with rubber –
              the faster and spinier type of play









              For instance, I'm new to
              hardbat.
              = okay …..

              I see it as an interesting and enjoyable variant to the
              game.

              = THATS EXACTLY WHAT I MEANT SIR – VARIANT !!!
              ANOTERH ACEPTABLE VARIANT ,THAT ALL OUR HARMLESS REQUEST. – not
              meant to replace something

              SOMETIMES, I WONDER WHY ARE THER SO FEW "VARIANTs" IN TABLE
              TENNIS – WHAAAAAA! –


              * lawnTennis got also variant clay court , cement court etc.

              *Martial art tourney – karate , tae kwan do , shalin , thai
              boxing , wrestling


              Arnis – being a recognized variant Filipino
              martial art of
              Filipinos


              And even latest UFC mixed martial art – shown in American T.V. –
              for me that is just raw street fighting - that's way illegal!
              Before But you see guys – its more of a "come back" thing
              so called ` illegal' before but can `come back ` As legal now. '-
              more so in the fashion trend , its just a cycle


              Its like saying we come back to old classical "frank sinatra "love
              song that has more meaning and essence what music really is , when
              we no longer enjoy what going on with the "current " type of music
              or "noise music " that cometh to our ears.?


              xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



              I find playing hardbat (and I've only played a little bit)
              informs me about issues and weaknesses and potential strategies in
              my sponge game.
              = I see agree sir.

              It also provides me a mental break from the highly spin
              dominated sponge game.
              = abit more relaxing , not tense up , more rallies I suppose ,
              longer play , perhaps they don't kill you right away even at service
              alone unlike in rubber. ahahah


              I see hardbat as one of the many variants along
              with sponge, anti-spin, long pips, pips out etc.
              = oh thats what you think. Good
              I hope they will feel about wood and sandpaper too.



              I'm happy to embrace
              all of the variants as part of legitimate table tennis.
              = good open minded.

              Others, however, consider hardbat to be the one and only "true"
              gameof table tennis and see sponge equipment as having had a big
              negative effect on the game putting too much emphasis on equipment
              and
              technology.
              = thats how I felt now now , also for our wood and sandpper
              now after being absence for almost 30 years in competitive table
              tennis.

              I WAS DEFINITLEY SHOCK to the new era.!!!

              Size of balls is bigger, price of rackets are now price like a hi
              tech -uzi gun in order to cope up with the size of the balls
              needed . I think there is a hidden "conspiracy " behind in all of
              this. Wait till it gets to 44 mm. whaaaa!
              Scoring is different. – its like being dues all the time and on
              your toes always ! Whaaa!

              Our sandpaper rackets still plays at 38 mm balls here in the
              Philippine by the way.smaller balls not easier to break. – nothing
              has change here. so for us , its like the 'old frank sinatra
              song 'as compared



              There is no unified, one mind among hard bat players,
              = I see
              other than perhaps that all of them like playing hardbat.
              = okay

              xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

              Yes, the committee was apparently split on bare wood/sandpaper
              decision making a close call to not include those options.
              = how unfortunate



              There
              seems to be potential to get that decision reversed though.


              = I really hope so. Sir I really hope so
              at least at least to be include in hardbat competions –as first
              step

              and in the near future – just for sandpaper and barewood alone
              tourney among themselves . .

              in Filipino language the sandpaper type of playing is called "liha"
              (sandpaper ) – so we do have liha tournament here. Liha against
              liha or liha against kahoy – kahoy means wood

              this thing didnt stop here its been continuously played since
              1920 `s
              despite the so called: ban in the 50 `s by international ,we still
              go on.


              Tell you one thing though in case decision will be reverse
              The Philippines will surely have a team going there to
              participate , I me- one for sure will try to lead.

              There goes pingpong diplomacy, there goes pingpong tourism ,opening
              up 'bridges and doors', down the road.

              Or you can even come here for such advebtyre No sweat.! All my
              former colleague are now leaders in the local national table tennis
              circles.

              Scott
              Gordon is probably the one who can give the best insight on how
              people
              wanting that change should procede.

              = is mr. scott Gordon a world war II veteran ?
              he must revisit historical Philippines ahahahahh
              form a group visit Philippines continue diplomacy and friendship and
              worldwide contact and tour thru pingpong – why not. ? I see
              pingpong now in another prospectiveafter coming back. And im just
              trying to inform you guys in what area of pingpong we Filipinos
              are good at. Thats all im trying to do.

              xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



              He and Tim Wright beat myself and
              Wayne Johnson while in Phoenix recently in a doubles match using
              sandpaper bats that Tim had made.
              = it just a coincidence tim and and I are of the same interest we
              are in the knife trade. Of me supplying mother of pearls to the
              American knifehandle industry trade.

              I was trying to inform him about this.

              xxxxxxxxxx

              I hope that helps. As I said, I'm new to playing hardbat, but I am
              enjoying it. And enjoying the play should be the main thing IMO.

              = yap and hope down the road hope we can have more luxury of
              choice, be more open minded , can reach out because of the global
              internet now just like any other sports as said above and put
              more "adventure and colors " to pingpong .

              best,
              pete
              Philippines
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.