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[HS] Re: Crash Upon Adding New Stores

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  • LzLong
    I am using Icon Manager; should I reinstall the default HS2 icon database? ... even
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 1, 2003
      I am using Icon Manager; should I reinstall the default HS2 icon
      database?

      --- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, Greg Gaub <flux@s...> wrote:
      > At 04:28 AM 3/31/2003, you wrote:
      > >I hadn't noticed this before, but build 5122 does appear to have a bug
      > >in it. I had build 5118 on my Tungsten previously, which worked
      > >without a problem. I decided to install 5122 & see what happened and
      > >immediately got "MemoryMgr.c, Line:3564, NULL handle" upon startup.
      > >Greg - can you post build 5118 in the "Files" section until the bug in
      > >5122 can be tracked down? Thanks!
      >
      > I'll see if I can post that version. I wish I could repeat any of these
      > crashes, though. Are you saing that you get that crash any time you
      even
      > START handyshopper? Are you also using Icon Manager and high-res icons?
      >
      > -Greg
      >
      >
      >
      > - Gregory A. Gaub | http://www.snapbag.com/~flux/ -
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • LzLong
      I tried installing 5122 with the default icon database and got the same error. What else could be causing the error (which does occur every time I start HS2)?
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 1, 2003
        I tried installing 5122 with the default icon database and got the
        same error. What else could be causing the error (which does occur
        every time I start HS2)?

        Mike Lax

        --- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "LzLong" <lzlong@y...> wrote:
        > I am using Icon Manager; should I reinstall the default HS2 icon
        > database?
        >
        > --- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, Greg Gaub <flux@s...> wrote:
        > > At 04:28 AM 3/31/2003, you wrote:
        > > >I hadn't noticed this before, but build 5122 does appear to have
        a bug
        > > >in it. I had build 5118 on my Tungsten previously, which worked
        > > >without a problem. I decided to install 5122 & see what happened and
        > > >immediately got "MemoryMgr.c, Line:3564, NULL handle" upon startup.
        > > >Greg - can you post build 5118 in the "Files" section until the
        bug in
        > > >5122 can be tracked down? Thanks!
        > >
        > > I'll see if I can post that version. I wish I could repeat any of
        these
        > > crashes, though. Are you saing that you get that crash any time you
        > even
        > > START handyshopper? Are you also using Icon Manager and high-res
        icons?
        > >
        > > -Greg
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > - Gregory A. Gaub | http://www.snapbag.com/~flux/ -
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Greg Gaub
        Dang. This is perplexing. All I can say is that I m sure Chris will look into it. : -Greg ... - Gregory A. Gaub | http://www.snapbag.com/~flux/ - [Non-text
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 1, 2003
          Dang. This is perplexing.
          All I can say is that I'm sure Chris will look into it. :\
          -Greg

          At 11:41 PM 3/31/2003, you wrote:

          >Greg:
          >
          >Something is wrong: this time I got a crash even with my own list,
          >the very first one that I started from scratch. I did not install any
          >prefab lists at all. I started my own list, but the moment I tried
          >adding more than one or two stores, I suffered a crash.
          >
          >As I'm smack in the middle of moving to another city, I'll have to
          >give a miss to further experimentation with this HS build at this
          >stage. For now, I have removed the current install, and will forego
          >further experimentation until I've completed my move. I will be on
          >the lookout for any future builds, though.
          >
          >I'd be interested to see whether any other users have experienced
          >similar issues with this build.
          >
          >Aamer :)
          >
          >
          >
          >--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, Greg Gaub <flux@s...> wrote:
          > > At 09:57 PM 3/31/2003, you wrote:
          > > >I think I'd miss out on a good program by abandoning HS, so I'm
          >going
          > > >to make a fresh download and fresh install of HS (the latest
          >version)
          > > >from PalmGear.
          > >
          > > I'm tempted to suggest that maybe the files downloaded from the
          >group got
          > > currupted in the process.
          > > Let us know if there are any problems creating your own lists.
          > >
          > > -Greg
          > >
          > >
          > > - Gregory A. Gaub | http://www.snapbag.com/~flux/ -
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
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          >------------------------------------------------------
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          - Gregory A. Gaub | http://www.snapbag.com/~flux/ -


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Greg Gaub
          ... Thanks for trying, it was just a thought. I m hoping that whatever is causing your crash and the one on Aamer s device are related, and it can be tracked
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 1, 2003
            At 03:58 AM 4/1/2003, you wrote:
            >I tried installing 5122 with the default icon database and got the
            >same error. What else could be causing the error (which does occur
            >every time I start HS2)?

            Thanks for trying, it was just a thought. I'm hoping that whatever is
            causing your crash and the one on Aamer's device are related, and it can be
            tracked down and fixed. It's difficult when it can't be repeated on someone
            else's device, you know?

            -Greg


            - Gregory A. Gaub | http://www.snapbag.com/~flux/ -


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Chris Antos
            ... Can you describe the crash? Does the device spontaneously reset without any warning? Does it display a message on the screen? If it displays a message
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 1, 2003
              Various answers to crash problems that have been reported recently:


              > > But before I could really learn or get into it, I was dismayed to
              > > discover that each time I tried to add a new store to any of the
              > > templates I downloaded from the 'Files' section, my Palm m130
              > > would crash. This happened several times.

              Can you describe the crash? Does the device spontaneously reset without any
              warning? Does it display a message on the screen? If it displays a message
              then it's very important to know what the message is. Ya gotta throw me a
              bone here. :-)


              > Something is wrong: this time I got a crash even with my own list,
              > the very first one that I started from scratch. I did not install any
              > prefab lists at all. I started my own list, but the moment I tried
              > adding more than one or two stores, I suffered a crash.

              Ok what else do you have installed on your device? Especially Hacks. The
              interesting thing about adding a store is that's the place in HandyShopper
              that uses the most "stack space" (it uses about 1200 bytes of stack at that
              point -- note that on old devices that's about 33% of the stack, and on the
              newest devices it's less than 10% of the stack). Normally there is plenty
              of stack space in the Palm OS. But many Hacks are written inefficiently and
              waste a great deal of stack space (sometimes as much as 80% of the stack!!).
              A misbehaving Hack could definitely cause a crash in that particular place,
              and the crash would likely only occur on that particular device model and
              with that particular Hack installed.

              It seems pretty unlikely to be a bug in HandyShopper since the same thing
              works fine for thousands of people, including many with the same device
              model as you have.


              > > >I hadn't noticed this before, but build 5122 does appear to have a bug
              > > >in it. I had build 5118 on my Tungsten previously, which worked
              > > >without a problem. I decided to install 5122 & see what happened and
              > > >immediately got "MemoryMgr.c, Line:3564, NULL handle" upon startup.
              > > >Greg - can you post build 5118 in the "Files" section until the bug in
              > > >5122 can be tracked down? Thanks!

              It sounds like you downloaded it during the short period of time where the
              wrong file had been posted. The prc file is less than 200kb, isn't it?
              Download it again and reinstall.


              // chris
            • aliendude3k
              Hi Chris You asked about the kind of crash I got with HS. Well, that s hard to tell, as there was no message. I have the Crash Hack v1.3, which replaces the
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 3, 2003
                Hi Chris

                You asked about the kind of crash I got with HS. Well, that's hard to
                tell, as there was no message. I have the Crash Hack v1.3, which
                replaces the default crash screen and automatically 'presses' reset
                after 5 seconds.

                What other hacks do I have? (All of these are currently activated).
                Clock Everywhere
                Keyboard Hack II
                MagicText
                McPhling
                MiddleCaps
                MultiClip
                Popup Calculator
                Popup Note
                Popup Time
                Symbol HackTealGlance 3.35b


                Aamer. :)



                --- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Antos" <chrisant@p...>
                wrote:
                > Various answers to crash problems that have been reported recently:
                >
                >
                > > > But before I could really learn or get into it, I was
                dismayed to
                > > > discover that each time I tried to add a new store to any of
                the
                > > > templates I downloaded from the 'Files' section, my Palm m130
                > > > would crash. This happened several times.
                >
                > Can you describe the crash? Does the device spontaneously reset
                without any
                > warning? Does it display a message on the screen? If it displays
                a message
                > then it's very important to know what the message is. Ya gotta
                throw me a
                > bone here. :-)
                >
                >
                > > Something is wrong: this time I got a crash even with my own list,
                > > the very first one that I started from scratch. I did not install
                any
                > > prefab lists at all. I started my own list, but the moment I tried
                > > adding more than one or two stores, I suffered a crash.
                >
                > Ok what else do you have installed on your device? Especially
                Hacks. The
                > interesting thing about adding a store is that's the place in
                HandyShopper
                > that uses the most "stack space" (it uses about 1200 bytes of stack
                at that
                > point -- note that on old devices that's about 33% of the stack,
                and on the
                > newest devices it's less than 10% of the stack). Normally there is
                plenty
                > of stack space in the Palm OS. But many Hacks are written
                inefficiently and
                > waste a great deal of stack space (sometimes as much as 80% of the
                stack!!).
                > A misbehaving Hack could definitely cause a crash in that
                particular place,
                > and the crash would likely only occur on that particular device
                model and
                > with that particular Hack installed.
                >
                > It seems pretty unlikely to be a bug in HandyShopper since the same
                thing
                > works fine for thousands of people, including many with the same
                device
                > model as you have.
                >
                >
                > > > >I hadn't noticed this before, but build 5122 does appear to
                have a bug
                > > > >in it. I had build 5118 on my Tungsten previously, which
                worked
                > > > >without a problem. I decided to install 5122 & see what
                happened and
                > > > >immediately got "MemoryMgr.c, Line:3564, NULL handle" upon
                startup.
                > > > >Greg - can you post build 5118 in the "Files" section until
                the bug in
                > > > >5122 can be tracked down? Thanks!
                >
                > It sounds like you downloaded it during the short period of time
                where the
                > wrong file had been posted. The prc file is less than 200kb, isn't
                it?
                > Download it again and reinstall.
                >
                >
                > // chris
              • aliendude3k
                ... where the wrong file had been posted. The prc file is less than 200kb, isn t it? ... Chris, Just re-downloaded from two sites. The prc file (at both
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 3, 2003
                  --- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Antos" <chrisant@p...>
                  wrote:
                  >It sounds like you downloaded it during the short period of time
                  where the wrong file had been posted. The prc file is less than
                  200kb, isn't it?
                  > Download it again and reinstall.
                  >
                  > // chris


                  Chris,

                  Just re-downloaded from two sites. The prc file (at both PalmGear and
                  FreewarePalm) is NOT less than 200 kb; it is 207+ kb. Could it be the
                  wrong version?

                  Aamer.








                  > Various answers to crash problems that have been reported recently:
                  >
                  >
                  > > > But before I could really learn or get into it, I was
                  dismayed to
                  > > > discover that each time I tried to add a new store to any of
                  the
                  > > > templates I downloaded from the 'Files' section, my Palm m130
                  > > > would crash. This happened several times.
                  >
                  > Can you describe the crash? Does the device spontaneously reset
                  without any
                  > warning? Does it display a message on the screen? If it displays
                  a message
                  > then it's very important to know what the message is. Ya gotta
                  throw me a
                  > bone here. :-)
                  >
                  >
                  > > Something is wrong: this time I got a crash even with my own list,
                  > > the very first one that I started from scratch. I did not install
                  any
                  > > prefab lists at all. I started my own list, but the moment I tried
                  > > adding more than one or two stores, I suffered a crash.
                  >
                  > Ok what else do you have installed on your device? Especially
                  Hacks. The
                  > interesting thing about adding a store is that's the place in
                  HandyShopper
                  > that uses the most "stack space" (it uses about 1200 bytes of stack
                  at that
                  > point -- note that on old devices that's about 33% of the stack,
                  and on the
                  > newest devices it's less than 10% of the stack). Normally there is
                  plenty
                  > of stack space in the Palm OS. But many Hacks are written
                  inefficiently and
                  > waste a great deal of stack space (sometimes as much as 80% of the
                  stack!!).
                  > A misbehaving Hack could definitely cause a crash in that
                  particular place,
                  > and the crash would likely only occur on that particular device
                  model and
                  > with that particular Hack installed.
                  >
                  > It seems pretty unlikely to be a bug in HandyShopper since the same
                  thing
                  > works fine for thousands of people, including many with the same
                  device
                  > model as you have.
                  >
                  >
                  > > > >I hadn't noticed this before, but build 5122 does appear to
                  have a bug
                  > > > >in it. I had build 5118 on my Tungsten previously, which
                  worked
                  > > > >without a problem. I decided to install 5122 & see what
                  happened and
                  > > > >immediately got "MemoryMgr.c, Line:3564, NULL handle" upon
                  startup.
                  > > > >Greg - can you post build 5118 in the "Files" section until
                  the bug in
                  > > > >5122 can be tracked down? Thanks!
                  >
                  > It sounds like you downloaded it during the short period of time
                  where the
                  > wrong file had been posted. The prc file is less than 200kb, isn't
                  it?
                  > Download it again and reinstall.
                  >
                  >
                  > // chris
                • Gregory Allen Gaub
                  ... Holy Moly! Just for the sake of testing, try turning off ALL your hacks, and try to add a new store. For some reason, I m thinking it will work. ;-) -Greg
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 3, 2003
                    aliendude3k wrote:

                    >Clock Everywhere
                    >Keyboard Hack II
                    >MagicText
                    >McPhling
                    >MiddleCaps
                    >MultiClip
                    >Popup Calculator
                    >Popup Note
                    >Popup Time
                    >Symbol HackTealGlance 3.35b
                    >
                    >

                    Holy Moly!
                    Just for the sake of testing, try turning off ALL your hacks, and try to
                    add a new store. For some reason, I'm thinking it will work. ;-)
                    -Greg
                  • Gregory Allen Gaub
                    ... No, that s the correct version. The corrupt one was just over 100k as it was missing parts of the code. I m inclined to think that the problem is all those
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 3, 2003
                      aliendude3k wrote:

                      >Just re-downloaded from two sites. The prc file (at both PalmGear and
                      >FreewarePalm) is NOT less than 200 kb; it is 207+ kb. Could it be the
                      >wrong version?
                      >

                      No, that's the correct version. The corrupt one was just over 100k as it
                      was missing parts of the code. I'm inclined to think that the problem is
                      all those hacks you're running.

                      -Greg
                    • chrisant_wa
                      ... Well, I won t go so far as to tell you to stop using Crash Hack, but it does sort of make it impossible for you to provide enough information to a
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 3, 2003
                        --- "aliendude3k" <earthling@m...> wrote:
                        > You asked about the kind of crash I got with HS.
                        > Well, that's hard to tell, as there was no message.
                        > I have the Crash Hack v1.3, which replaces the
                        > default crash screen and automatically 'presses'
                        > reset after 5 seconds.

                        Well, I won't go so far as to tell you to stop using Crash Hack, but
                        it does sort of make it impossible for you to provide enough
                        information to a developer for him to be able to find or fix the
                        bug, if the crash is due to a bug. In this case it probably doesn't
                        matter much, because the problem does seem to be the Hacks wasting
                        stack space.


                        > What other hacks do I have? (All of these
                        > are currently activated).
                        > Clock Everywhere
                        > Keyboard Hack II
                        > MagicText
                        > McPhling
                        > MiddleCaps
                        > MultiClip
                        > Popup Calculator
                        > Popup Note
                        > Popup Time
                        > Symbol HackTealGlance 3.35b

                        I'll bet that if you disable one or two of them the crash will go
                        away. Except for example disabling Keyboard Hack II probably
                        wouldn't make a difference because it "stays in the background"
                        until you actually invoke it. But most of the others "run in the
                        foreground" trying to actively figure out if you are trying to
                        invoke any of their features. I've written several Hacks myself,
                        though I don't recall releasing any of them, and I know about the
                        stack space issues and how to write Hacks carefully so they don't
                        waste stack space and cause crashes. Unfortunately most Hack
                        authors don't know these things.

                        An easy candidate to try first might be one of the clock Hacks,
                        since it looks like you have two of them and might not care if you
                        give up one of them.

                        cheers,
                        // chris
                      • aliendude3k
                        WELL, WADDAYA KNOW? THE CRASH WAS NOT DUE TO HANDYSHOPPER! Chris and Greg: Thanks for helping this newbie learn more about using the Palm. Sorry for the to-do.
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 4, 2003
                          WELL, WADDAYA KNOW? THE CRASH WAS NOT DUE TO HANDYSHOPPER!

                          Chris and Greg:

                          Thanks for helping this newbie learn more about using the Palm. Sorry
                          for the to-do.

                          I decided to disable hacks I could do without, and disabled the
                          following: Crash, Popup Time, and Teal Glance. I also disabled
                          DigiFix and BeamOff.

                          I'm still using the foillowing hacks: MagicText, TextPlus,
                          SelectDay, SelectTime, McPhling, MultiClip, PopUp Calc , PopUp Note,
                          and Symbol Hack.

                          There is now no crash upon adding stores. I believe I learnt
                          something here. Chris, thanks for the help, and for offering this
                          software, and I hope to enjoy using it.

                          I suspect the large number of active hacks, as well as a trial use of
                          Findhack, may also be causing that crash I now every time I use
                          the 'Find' function. Active hacks, here I come...

                          Aamer. :)




                          --- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Allen Gaub <flux@s...>
                          wrote:
                          > aliendude3k wrote:
                          >
                          > >Clock Everywhere
                          > >Keyboard Hack II
                          > >MagicText
                          > >McPhling
                          > >MiddleCaps
                          > >MultiClip
                          > >Popup Calculator
                          > >Popup Note
                          > >Popup Time
                          > >Symbol HackTealGlance 3.35b
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > Holy Moly!
                          > Just for the sake of testing, try turning off ALL your hacks, and
                          try to
                          > add a new store. For some reason, I'm thinking it will work. ;-)
                          > -Greg
                        • chrisant_wa
                          ... Crashes during Find usually are the result of a programmer who made a common newbie mistake in Palm programming, and didn t make his app respond correctly
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 4, 2003
                            --- "aliendude3k" <earthling@m...> wrote:
                            > WELL, WADDAYA KNOW? THE CRASH WAS NOT DUE TO HANDYSHOPPER!
                            > ... snip ...
                            > I suspect the large number of active hacks, as well
                            > as a trial use of Findhack, may also be causing that
                            > crash I now every time I use the 'Find' function.
                            > Active hacks, here I come...

                            Crashes during Find usually are the result of a programmer who made
                            a common newbie mistake in Palm programming, and didn't make his app
                            respond correctly to the Find command. When you use the Find
                            command, the Palm OS launches each app on the device one after the
                            other, asking them to please look for the text the user entered. If
                            any one of the apps has a bug, kablooey Find will crash. There's
                            not even any way to tell which app caused the crash, because the app
                            will crash before it ever gets a chance to write its name to the
                            screen. So all you can see are the names of apps that WORK -- the
                            last name is NOT the name of the app that caused the crash.

                            One way to find the culprit is to remove several apps at a time
                            (starting with the ones you installed most recently) and keep trying
                            the Find command until it works. Then add the apps back one at a
                            time until Find crashes. Then toss the faulty app in the trash ;-)
                            or even better contact the author and let them know there is a bug.
                            But also keep in mind that there may be more than one app with that
                            kind of bug, so you might end up playing this game of musical chairs
                            more than once.

                            HTH
                            // chris
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