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Re: [HS] WP7 Version

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  • r9177347464
    Pardon my lateness in joining the group, but I would LOVE to see HS on WP7!! The screenshots you provided look very enticing, please may I know if there is a
    Message 1 of 22 , May 2, 2011
      Pardon my lateness in joining the group, but I would LOVE to see HS on
      WP7!! The screenshots you provided look very enticing, please may I know if there is a beta or any other version currently working on WP7 platform? I have tried several other apps and can't seem to find all the features HS had when I was on Win6.5


      --- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kee (chuck@...)" <chuck@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks Chris,
      >
      > Yeah, I think I'll keep working on it - it is fun! Yes, the XML was only a short-term solution to get the app up-and-running while waiting for a real database to became available. There are a couple of 3rd party solutions, but I really want to wait until Microsoft provides their own.
      >
      > Regarding the PDB, I found a C# library that can read the records into a collection - http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/SharpPDB.
      >
      > Chuck
      >
      > From: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handyshopper@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chrisant_wa
      > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:48 AM
      > To: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [HS] WP7 Version
      >
      >
      >
      > --- "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@<mailto:chuck@>> wrote:
      > > I'm sorry Chris -- my app has a different name, but
      > > at the last minute before posting, I changed it to
      > > HandyShopper for the screenshot. I, in no way, want
      > > to infringe.
      >
      > Oh, that's fine, no worries. :-)
      >
      > > If you are going to build a WP7 version, I'll quit
      > > development on my app. I'd much rather have a version
      > > from you.
      >
      > If you are having fun working on your app, then I'd say keep doing it! :-) Besides, if you keep at it you will probably have something ready before I do.
      >
      > It is likely that I will build a WP7 version in the future. But there are some technical issues in the way right now (such as getting an existing database onto the device, backing up databases from the device, for starters). I would guess that once I do eventually start, something would not be ready for at least 6 months.
      >
      > Also, just a heads-up on a technical challenge you'll want to solve. Saving the db as XML has a scaling problem: The more items are in a database, the longer it will take to save, since the entire database has to be serialized to XML. But when the user navigates away from an app, the device only gives an app a maximum of 10 seconds to finish what it's doing and exit gracefully. After that the OS kills the app in the middle of whatever it's doing. So saving needs to be fast, no matter how large a database is. (Setting a maximum number of items can be a temporary solution, but the time target should be at most 5 seconds, and beware that the emulator is faster than a real device). Even the PDB format won't work on WP7, but the PDB format didn't work on Palm devices either -- the PDB format was just the way the Palm devices backed up a database to disk, but in memory the database was in a totally different storage format. In order to scale to large numbers of items, an app will need to create its own storage format that can update items individually.
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • robmikedad
      Update: Since the upcoming release of the Windows Phone operating system finally gives us developers a real database to work with, I m now actively working on
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 30, 2011
        Update: Since the upcoming release of the Windows Phone operating system finally gives us developers a real database to work with, I'm now actively working on the application. I have my application running on my phone, using the beta version of Windows Phone "Mango" operating system. I'm still adding features, so it will still be awhile before it's available. "Mango" is rumored to be available sometime in September, so I'm hoping to wrap-up development and get it into the Microsoft certification process soon thereafter.

        Chuck

        --- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "r9177347464" <r9177347464@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Pardon my lateness in joining the group, but I would LOVE to see HS on
        > WP7!! The screenshots you provided look very enticing, please may I know if there is a beta or any other version currently working on WP7 platform? I have tried several other apps and can't seem to find all the features HS had when I was on Win6.5
        >
        >
        > --- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Thanks Chris,
        > >
        > > Yeah, I think I'll keep working on it - it is fun! Yes, the XML was only a short-term solution to get the app up-and-running while waiting for a real database to became available. There are a couple of 3rd party solutions, but I really want to wait until Microsoft provides their own.
        > >
        > > Regarding the PDB, I found a C# library that can read the records into a collection - http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/SharpPDB.
        > >
        > > Chuck
        > >
        > > From: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handyshopper@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chrisant_wa
        > > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:48 AM
        > > To: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: Re: [HS] WP7 Version
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@<mailto:chuck@>> wrote:
        > > > I'm sorry Chris -- my app has a different name, but
        > > > at the last minute before posting, I changed it to
        > > > HandyShopper for the screenshot. I, in no way, want
        > > > to infringe.
        > >
        > > Oh, that's fine, no worries. :-)
        > >
        > > > If you are going to build a WP7 version, I'll quit
        > > > development on my app. I'd much rather have a version
        > > > from you.
        > >
        > > If you are having fun working on your app, then I'd say keep doing it! :-) Besides, if you keep at it you will probably have something ready before I do.
        > >
        > > It is likely that I will build a WP7 version in the future. But there are some technical issues in the way right now (such as getting an existing database onto the device, backing up databases from the device, for starters). I would guess that once I do eventually start, something would not be ready for at least 6 months.
        > >
        > > Also, just a heads-up on a technical challenge you'll want to solve. Saving the db as XML has a scaling problem: The more items are in a database, the longer it will take to save, since the entire database has to be serialized to XML. But when the user navigates away from an app, the device only gives an app a maximum of 10 seconds to finish what it's doing and exit gracefully. After that the OS kills the app in the middle of whatever it's doing. So saving needs to be fast, no matter how large a database is. (Setting a maximum number of items can be a temporary solution, but the time target should be at most 5 seconds, and beware that the emulator is faster than a real device). Even the PDB format won't work on WP7, but the PDB format didn't work on Palm devices either -- the PDB format was just the way the Palm devices backed up a database to disk, but in memory the database was in a totally different storage format. In order to scale to large numbers of items, an app will need to create its own storage format that can update items individually.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
      • robmikedad
        I m pleased to announce that The List has been certified by Microsoft, and is now available on Windows Phone Marketplace. Here s the link:
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 20, 2011
          I'm pleased to announce that "The List" has been certified by Microsoft, and is now available on Windows Phone Marketplace. Here's the link: http://windowsphone.com/s?appid=2a349721-a43e-47d7-958d-bb5802c96a82

          Chuck

          --- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "robmikedad" <chuck@...> wrote:
          >
          > Update: Since the upcoming release of the Windows Phone operating system finally gives us developers a real database to work with, I'm now actively working on the application. I have my application running on my phone, using the beta version of Windows Phone "Mango" operating system. I'm still adding features, so it will still be awhile before it's available. "Mango" is rumored to be available sometime in September, so I'm hoping to wrap-up development and get it into the Microsoft certification process soon thereafter.
          >
          > Chuck
          >
          > --- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "r9177347464" <r9177347464@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Pardon my lateness in joining the group, but I would LOVE to see HS on
          > > WP7!! The screenshots you provided look very enticing, please may I know if there is a beta or any other version currently working on WP7 platform? I have tried several other apps and can't seem to find all the features HS had when I was on Win6.5
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Thanks Chris,
          > > >
          > > > Yeah, I think I'll keep working on it - it is fun! Yes, the XML was only a short-term solution to get the app up-and-running while waiting for a real database to became available. There are a couple of 3rd party solutions, but I really want to wait until Microsoft provides their own.
          > > >
          > > > Regarding the PDB, I found a C# library that can read the records into a collection - http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/SharpPDB.
          > > >
          > > > Chuck
          > > >
          > > > From: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handyshopper@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chrisant_wa
          > > > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:48 AM
          > > > To: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Subject: Re: [HS] WP7 Version
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@<mailto:chuck@>> wrote:
          > > > > I'm sorry Chris -- my app has a different name, but
          > > > > at the last minute before posting, I changed it to
          > > > > HandyShopper for the screenshot. I, in no way, want
          > > > > to infringe.
          > > >
          > > > Oh, that's fine, no worries. :-)
          > > >
          > > > > If you are going to build a WP7 version, I'll quit
          > > > > development on my app. I'd much rather have a version
          > > > > from you.
          > > >
          > > > If you are having fun working on your app, then I'd say keep doing it! :-) Besides, if you keep at it you will probably have something ready before I do.
          > > >
          > > > It is likely that I will build a WP7 version in the future. But there are some technical issues in the way right now (such as getting an existing database onto the device, backing up databases from the device, for starters). I would guess that once I do eventually start, something would not be ready for at least 6 months.
          > > >
          > > > Also, just a heads-up on a technical challenge you'll want to solve. Saving the db as XML has a scaling problem: The more items are in a database, the longer it will take to save, since the entire database has to be serialized to XML. But when the user navigates away from an app, the device only gives an app a maximum of 10 seconds to finish what it's doing and exit gracefully. After that the OS kills the app in the middle of whatever it's doing. So saving needs to be fast, no matter how large a database is. (Setting a maximum number of items can be a temporary solution, but the time target should be at most 5 seconds, and beware that the emulator is faster than a real device). Even the PDB format won't work on WP7, but the PDB format didn't work on Palm devices either -- the PDB format was just the way the Palm devices backed up a database to disk, but in memory the database was in a totally different storage format. In order to scale to large numbers of items, an app will need to create its own storage format that can update items individually.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Greg Gaub
          From the web site: - Multi-database - Multiple shopping lists per database - Shared Categories, Items, Stores within database - Filter by Category and/or Store
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 21, 2011
            From the web site:

            - Multi-database
            - Multiple shopping lists per database
            - Shared Categories, Items, Stores within database
            - Filter by Category and/or Store
            - Searchable
            - PC Upload/download
            - Import from HandyShopper or CSV file using provided PC application
            - Multi-language
            - 600+ Item built-in database

            Download/read the User Guide + PC application from our SkyDrive at: https://skydrive.live.com/embedicon.aspx/The%20List?cid=d44d720c001c0a4c&sc=documents



            Good job, Chuck!
            Can you share with everyone what kind of data loss, if any, takes place
            during HandyShopper list import?
            One of the biggest reasons I haven't moved to any of the Android list
            apps is that none of them support some important aspects of HandyShopper
            lists, not the least of which being negative prices. If there is
            anything at all that your app will drop, please let us know.

            -Greg

            robmikedad wrote:

            >I'm pleased to announce that "The List" has been certified by Microsoft, and is now available on Windows Phone Marketplace. Here's the link: http://windowsphone.com/s?appid=2a349721-a43e-47d7-958d-bb5802c96a82
            >
            >Chuck
            >
            >--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "robmikedad" <chuck@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >>Update: Since the upcoming release of the Windows Phone operating system finally gives us developers a real database to work with, I'm now actively working on the application. I have my application running on my phone, using the beta version of Windows Phone "Mango" operating system. I'm still adding features, so it will still be awhile before it's available. "Mango" is rumored to be available sometime in September, so I'm hoping to wrap-up development and get it into the Microsoft certification process soon thereafter.
            >>
            >>Chuck
            >>
            >>--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "r9177347464" <r9177347464@> wrote:
            >>
            >>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>Pardon my lateness in joining the group, but I would LOVE to see HS on
            >>>WP7!! The screenshots you provided look very enticing, please may I know if there is a beta or any other version currently working on WP7 platform? I have tried several other apps and can't seem to find all the features HS had when I was on Win6.5
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@> wrote:
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>>Thanks Chris,
            >>>>
            >>>>Yeah, I think I'll keep working on it - it is fun! Yes, the XML was only a short-term solution to get the app up-and-running while waiting for a real database to became available. There are a couple of 3rd party solutions, but I really want to wait until Microsoft provides their own.
            >>>>
            >>>>Regarding the PDB, I found a C# library that can read the records into a collection - http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/SharpPDB.
            >>>>
            >>>>Chuck
            >>>>
            >>>>From: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handyshopper@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chrisant_wa
            >>>>Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:48 AM
            >>>>To: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com
            >>>>Subject: Re: [HS] WP7 Version
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>--- "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@<mailto:chuck@>> wrote:
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>>I'm sorry Chris -- my app has a different name, but
            >>>>>at the last minute before posting, I changed it to
            >>>>>HandyShopper for the screenshot. I, in no way, want
            >>>>>to infringe.
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>Oh, that's fine, no worries. :-)
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>>If you are going to build a WP7 version, I'll quit
            >>>>>development on my app. I'd much rather have a version
            >>>>>from you.
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>If you are having fun working on your app, then I'd say keep doing it! :-) Besides, if you keep at it you will probably have something ready before I do.
            >>>>
            >>>>It is likely that I will build a WP7 version in the future. But there are some technical issues in the way right now (such as getting an existing database onto the device, backing up databases from the device, for starters). I would guess that once I do eventually start, something would not be ready for at least 6 months.
            >>>>
            >>>>Also, just a heads-up on a technical challenge you'll want to solve. Saving the db as XML has a scaling problem: The more items are in a database, the longer it will take to save, since the entire database has to be serialized to XML. But when the user navigates away from an app, the device only gives an app a maximum of 10 seconds to finish what it's doing and exit gracefully. After that the OS kills the app in the middle of whatever it's doing. So saving needs to be fast, no matter how large a database is. (Setting a maximum number of items can be a temporary solution, but the time target should be at most 5 seconds, and beware that the emulator is faster than a real device). Even the PDB format won't work on WP7, but the PDB format didn't work on Palm devices either -- the PDB format was just the way the Palm devices backed up a database to disk, but in memory the database was in a totally different storage format. In order to scale to large numbers of items, an app will need to create its own storage format that can update items individually.
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >------------------------------------
            >
            >.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-.
            >HandyShopper Help: http://www.ggaub.com/hswiki/
            >-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • robmikedad
            The import process from Handyshopper makes use of the XML file that you create using the h3convert.exe utility. I made no attempt to fully import the data
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 21, 2011
              The import process from Handyshopper makes use of the XML file that you create using the h3convert.exe utility. I made no attempt to fully import the data directly from the PDB database. I suspect that by not importing the full PDB, there is much that I missed.

              The data that is imported are: Description, need, units, quantity, price, tax, category, aisle, stores, and priority.

              This is also true for the CSV import -- the same fields are imported.

              Regarding its functionality, while I had originally thought about developing HandyShopper for WP7, I realized that 1) in order to get the application released in a timely manner, I wouldn't be able to do everything, 2) since I couldn't do everything, I had no way of knowing which features were important to everyone so that I could prioritize and try to get them included, and 3) HandyShopper is copywrited by Chris. I believe for me to make a duplicate of HandyShopper would violate that copywrite.

              I can't tell you what my app doesn't do in relation to HandyShopper because I never did a full analysis of it (for the reasons I stated above). The easiest way to see what my app can do is to read the User Guide.

              Regarding negative prices, I can't think of anything in the application to prevent them. It's just that the keyboard that is displayed shows only numeric values -- no negative sign. I'm getting ready to release version 1.1, which will include a few bug fixes, along with language support for French, German, and Spanish. I can take a look at adding negative price support.

              Chuck

              --- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, Greg Gaub <mailing.lists@...> wrote:
              >
              > From the web site:
              >
              > - Multi-database
              > - Multiple shopping lists per database
              > - Shared Categories, Items, Stores within database
              > - Filter by Category and/or Store
              > - Searchable
              > - PC Upload/download
              > - Import from HandyShopper or CSV file using provided PC application
              > - Multi-language
              > - 600+ Item built-in database
              >
              > Download/read the User Guide + PC application from our SkyDrive at: https://skydrive.live.com/embedicon.aspx/The%20List?cid=d44d720c001c0a4c&sc=documents
              >
              >
              >
              > Good job, Chuck!
              > Can you share with everyone what kind of data loss, if any, takes place
              > during HandyShopper list import?
              > One of the biggest reasons I haven't moved to any of the Android list
              > apps is that none of them support some important aspects of HandyShopper
              > lists, not the least of which being negative prices. If there is
              > anything at all that your app will drop, please let us know.
              >
              > -Greg
              >
              > robmikedad wrote:
              >
              > >I'm pleased to announce that "The List" has been certified by Microsoft, and is now available on Windows Phone Marketplace. Here's the link: http://windowsphone.com/s?appid=2a349721-a43e-47d7-958d-bb5802c96a82
              > >
              > >Chuck
              > >
              > >--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "robmikedad" <chuck@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >>Update: Since the upcoming release of the Windows Phone operating system finally gives us developers a real database to work with, I'm now actively working on the application. I have my application running on my phone, using the beta version of Windows Phone "Mango" operating system. I'm still adding features, so it will still be awhile before it's available. "Mango" is rumored to be available sometime in September, so I'm hoping to wrap-up development and get it into the Microsoft certification process soon thereafter.
              > >>
              > >>Chuck
              > >>
              > >>--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "r9177347464" <r9177347464@> wrote:
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>Pardon my lateness in joining the group, but I would LOVE to see HS on
              > >>>WP7!! The screenshots you provided look very enticing, please may I know if there is a beta or any other version currently working on WP7 platform? I have tried several other apps and can't seem to find all the features HS had when I was on Win6.5
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@> wrote:
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>>Thanks Chris,
              > >>>>
              > >>>>Yeah, I think I'll keep working on it - it is fun! Yes, the XML was only a short-term solution to get the app up-and-running while waiting for a real database to became available. There are a couple of 3rd party solutions, but I really want to wait until Microsoft provides their own.
              > >>>>
              > >>>>Regarding the PDB, I found a C# library that can read the records into a collection - http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/SharpPDB.
              > >>>>
              > >>>>Chuck
              > >>>>
              > >>>>From: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handyshopper@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chrisant_wa
              > >>>>Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:48 AM
              > >>>>To: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com
              > >>>>Subject: Re: [HS] WP7 Version
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>--- "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@<mailto:chuck@>> wrote:
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>>I'm sorry Chris -- my app has a different name, but
              > >>>>>at the last minute before posting, I changed it to
              > >>>>>HandyShopper for the screenshot. I, in no way, want
              > >>>>>to infringe.
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>Oh, that's fine, no worries. :-)
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>>If you are going to build a WP7 version, I'll quit
              > >>>>>development on my app. I'd much rather have a version
              > >>>>>from you.
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>If you are having fun working on your app, then I'd say keep doing it! :-) Besides, if you keep at it you will probably have something ready before I do.
              > >>>>
              > >>>>It is likely that I will build a WP7 version in the future. But there are some technical issues in the way right now (such as getting an existing database onto the device, backing up databases from the device, for starters). I would guess that once I do eventually start, something would not be ready for at least 6 months.
              > >>>>
              > >>>>Also, just a heads-up on a technical challenge you'll want to solve. Saving the db as XML has a scaling problem: The more items are in a database, the longer it will take to save, since the entire database has to be serialized to XML. But when the user navigates away from an app, the device only gives an app a maximum of 10 seconds to finish what it's doing and exit gracefully. After that the OS kills the app in the middle of whatever it's doing. So saving needs to be fast, no matter how large a database is. (Setting a maximum number of items can be a temporary solution, but the time target should be at most 5 seconds, and beware that the emulator is faster than a real device). Even the PDB format won't work on WP7, but the PDB format didn't work on Palm devices either -- the PDB format was just the way the Palm devices backed up a database to disk, but in memory the database was in a totally different storage format. In order to scale to large numbers of items, an app will need to create its own storage format that can update items individually.
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >------------------------------------
              > >
              > >.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-.
              > >HandyShopper Help: http://www.ggaub.com/hswiki/
              > >-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-
              > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Greg Gaub
              Ah. Well, I think you made some assumptions about HandyShopper compatability that weren t entirely accurate. Chris didn t make the database format public just
              Message 6 of 22 , Oct 21, 2011
                Ah. Well, I think you made some assumptions about HandyShopper
                compatability that weren't entirely accurate. Chris didn't make the
                database format public just to tease people. He WANTS people to develop
                apps that use the database. At least, that's how I understand it. Sure,
                calling it "HandyShopper" would be a bad idea, as your previously quoted
                messages detail, but Chris was being downright helpful so that you could
                be successful. Too bad yours is "just another" list app that takes a
                converted HS database and drops most of the data. Too bad for people
                like me, that is, who use HandyShopper BECAUSE of all those "extra"
                things. Simple list apps abound on windows and android markets,
                including many that can import csv and/or flat files of some kind. I
                guess if one has no choice, then they have no choice, though.

                I strongly recommend at least trying to keep the Note data. Negative
                prices might seem like a strange thing for a shopping list app, but that
                function is one of the things that helped people make HandyShopper so
                much more useful than "just" a shopping list app. If you can work that
                in there, then I can't see how it would be a bad thing. Honestly, making
                it as much like HandyShopper as you can is not something to avoid, it's
                something to strive for.
                Is HandyShopper perfect? Nothing is truly perfect, but HandyShopper is
                as near perfect as any list app I've ever used.
                If I had a WP7 phone, I'd surely try your app out... if there was a way
                to. I saw that it wasn't free. Is there a way to test it prior to
                paying? I never buy an app untested, and I'm sure there are many WP7
                users like me.

                I love my Android phone.... but I still use my Palm for HandyShopper.

                -Greg

                robmikedad wrote:

                >The import process from Handyshopper makes use of the XML file that you create using the h3convert.exe utility. I made no attempt to fully import the data directly from the PDB database. I suspect that by not importing the full PDB, there is much that I missed.
                >
                >The data that is imported are: Description, need, units, quantity, price, tax, category, aisle, stores, and priority.
                >
                >This is also true for the CSV import -- the same fields are imported.
                >
                >Regarding its functionality, while I had originally thought about developing HandyShopper for WP7, I realized that 1) in order to get the application released in a timely manner, I wouldn't be able to do everything, 2) since I couldn't do everything, I had no way of knowing which features were important to everyone so that I could prioritize and try to get them included, and 3) HandyShopper is copywrited by Chris. I believe for me to make a duplicate of HandyShopper would violate that copywrite.
                >
                >I can't tell you what my app doesn't do in relation to HandyShopper because I never did a full analysis of it (for the reasons I stated above). The easiest way to see what my app can do is to read the User Guide.
                >
                >Regarding negative prices, I can't think of anything in the application to prevent them. It's just that the keyboard that is displayed shows only numeric values -- no negative sign. I'm getting ready to release version 1.1, which will include a few bug fixes, along with language support for French, German, and Spanish. I can take a look at adding negative price support.
                >
                >Chuck
                >
                >--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, Greg Gaub <mailing.lists@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >> From the web site:
                >>
                >>- Multi-database
                >>- Multiple shopping lists per database
                >>- Shared Categories, Items, Stores within database
                >>- Filter by Category and/or Store
                >>- Searchable
                >>- PC Upload/download
                >>- Import from HandyShopper or CSV file using provided PC application
                >>- Multi-language
                >>- 600+ Item built-in database
                >>
                >>Download/read the User Guide + PC application from our SkyDrive at: https://skydrive.live.com/embedicon.aspx/The%20List?cid=d44d720c001c0a4c&sc=documents
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>Good job, Chuck!
                >>Can you share with everyone what kind of data loss, if any, takes place
                >>during HandyShopper list import?
                >>One of the biggest reasons I haven't moved to any of the Android list
                >>apps is that none of them support some important aspects of HandyShopper
                >>lists, not the least of which being negative prices. If there is
                >>anything at all that your app will drop, please let us know.
                >>
                >>-Greg
                >>
                >>robmikedad wrote:
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>>I'm pleased to announce that "The List" has been certified by Microsoft, and is now available on Windows Phone Marketplace. Here's the link: http://windowsphone.com/s?appid=2a349721-a43e-47d7-958d-bb5802c96a82
                >>>
                >>>Chuck
                >>>
                >>>--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "robmikedad" <chuck@> wrote:
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>>Update: Since the upcoming release of the Windows Phone operating system finally gives us developers a real database to work with, I'm now actively working on the application. I have my application running on my phone, using the beta version of Windows Phone "Mango" operating system. I'm still adding features, so it will still be awhile before it's available. "Mango" is rumored to be available sometime in September, so I'm hoping to wrap-up development and get it into the Microsoft certification process soon thereafter.
                >>>>
                >>>>Chuck
                >>>>
                >>>>--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "r9177347464" <r9177347464@> wrote:
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>Pardon my lateness in joining the group, but I would LOVE to see HS on
                >>>>>WP7!! The screenshots you provided look very enticing, please may I know if there is a beta or any other version currently working on WP7 platform? I have tried several other apps and can't seem to find all the features HS had when I was on Win6.5
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@> wrote:
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>>Thanks Chris,
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>Yeah, I think I'll keep working on it - it is fun! Yes, the XML was only a short-term solution to get the app up-and-running while waiting for a real database to became available. There are a couple of 3rd party solutions, but I really want to wait until Microsoft provides their own.
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>Regarding the PDB, I found a C# library that can read the records into a collection - http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/SharpPDB.
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>Chuck
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>From: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handyshopper@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chrisant_wa
                >>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:48 AM
                >>>>>>To: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com
                >>>>>>Subject: Re: [HS] WP7 Version
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>--- "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@<mailto:chuck@>> wrote:
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>>I'm sorry Chris -- my app has a different name, but
                >>>>>>>at the last minute before posting, I changed it to
                >>>>>>>HandyShopper for the screenshot. I, in no way, want
                >>>>>>>to infringe.
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>Oh, that's fine, no worries. :-)
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>>If you are going to build a WP7 version, I'll quit
                >>>>>>>development on my app. I'd much rather have a version
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>>from you.
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>If you are having fun working on your app, then I'd say keep doing it! :-) Besides, if you keep at it you will probably have something ready before I do.
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>It is likely that I will build a WP7 version in the future. But there are some technical issues in the way right now (such as getting an existing database onto the device, backing up databases from the device, for starters). I would guess that once I do eventually start, something would not be ready for at least 6 months.
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>Also, just a heads-up on a technical challenge you'll want to solve. Saving the db as XML has a scaling problem: The more items are in a database, the longer it will take to save, since the entire database has to be serialized to XML. But when the user navigates away from an app, the device only gives an app a maximum of 10 seconds to finish what it's doing and exit gracefully. After that the OS kills the app in the middle of whatever it's doing. So saving needs to be fast, no matter how large a database is. (Setting a maximum number of items can be a temporary solution, but the time target should be at most 5 seconds, and beware that the emulator is faster than a real device). Even the PDB format won't work on WP7, but the PDB format didn't work on Palm devices either -- the PDB format was just the way the Palm devices backed up a database to disk, but in memory the database was in a totally different storage format. In order to scale to large numbers of items, an app will need to create its own storage format that can update items individually.
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>------------------------------------
                >>>
                >>>.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-.
                >>>HandyShopper Help: http://www.ggaub.com/hswiki/
                >>>-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-
                >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >------------------------------------
                >
                >.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-.
                >HandyShopper Help: http://www.ggaub.com/hswiki/
                >-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • robmikedad
                Thanks for the comment about importing Note data -- I needed to update the documentation. The import utility DOES import Note data. Regarding
                Message 7 of 22 , Oct 21, 2011
                  Thanks for the comment about importing Note data -- I needed to update the documentation. The import utility DOES import Note data.

                  Regarding test-before-purchase, you can install the Trial version from the Marketplace.

                  I tested negative prices, and all it took was changing the keyboard that is displayed when you are editing the price field.

                  Now, about the database -- I had downloaded all of Chris' public domain code to analyze prior to the start of development. The issue is this: the code is written in the C++ programming language. C++ is not available for Windows Phone so I couldn't use it. That left me with two options: 1) convert the code to a language available for WP7 - either C# of VB.Net, which would allow the PDB to be downloaded to the phone and used without conversion, or 2) build a PC-based application, using the C++ code as-is, which would then allow me to convert the PDB into a database compatible with the database engine used by WP7.

                  As much as I would have liked to used the entire database, it just wasn't feasable (at the time). That's not to say I couldn't do it.

                  I'd be interested to hear from the WP7 folks how necessary it is to them to have the entire database.

                  Chuck

                  --- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, Greg Gaub <mailing.lists@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Ah. Well, I think you made some assumptions about HandyShopper
                  > compatability that weren't entirely accurate. Chris didn't make the
                  > database format public just to tease people. He WANTS people to develop
                  > apps that use the database. At least, that's how I understand it. Sure,
                  > calling it "HandyShopper" would be a bad idea, as your previously quoted
                  > messages detail, but Chris was being downright helpful so that you could
                  > be successful. Too bad yours is "just another" list app that takes a
                  > converted HS database and drops most of the data. Too bad for people
                  > like me, that is, who use HandyShopper BECAUSE of all those "extra"
                  > things. Simple list apps abound on windows and android markets,
                  > including many that can import csv and/or flat files of some kind. I
                  > guess if one has no choice, then they have no choice, though.
                  >
                  > I strongly recommend at least trying to keep the Note data. Negative
                  > prices might seem like a strange thing for a shopping list app, but that
                  > function is one of the things that helped people make HandyShopper so
                  > much more useful than "just" a shopping list app. If you can work that
                  > in there, then I can't see how it would be a bad thing. Honestly, making
                  > it as much like HandyShopper as you can is not something to avoid, it's
                  > something to strive for.
                  > Is HandyShopper perfect? Nothing is truly perfect, but HandyShopper is
                  > as near perfect as any list app I've ever used.
                  > If I had a WP7 phone, I'd surely try your app out... if there was a way
                  > to. I saw that it wasn't free. Is there a way to test it prior to
                  > paying? I never buy an app untested, and I'm sure there are many WP7
                  > users like me.
                  >
                  > I love my Android phone.... but I still use my Palm for HandyShopper.
                  >
                  > -Greg
                  >
                  > robmikedad wrote:
                  >
                  > >The import process from Handyshopper makes use of the XML file that you create using the h3convert.exe utility. I made no attempt to fully import the data directly from the PDB database. I suspect that by not importing the full PDB, there is much that I missed.
                  > >
                  > >The data that is imported are: Description, need, units, quantity, price, tax, category, aisle, stores, and priority.
                  > >
                  > >This is also true for the CSV import -- the same fields are imported.
                  > >
                  > >Regarding its functionality, while I had originally thought about developing HandyShopper for WP7, I realized that 1) in order to get the application released in a timely manner, I wouldn't be able to do everything, 2) since I couldn't do everything, I had no way of knowing which features were important to everyone so that I could prioritize and try to get them included, and 3) HandyShopper is copywrited by Chris. I believe for me to make a duplicate of HandyShopper would violate that copywrite.
                  > >
                  > >I can't tell you what my app doesn't do in relation to HandyShopper because I never did a full analysis of it (for the reasons I stated above). The easiest way to see what my app can do is to read the User Guide.
                  > >
                  > >Regarding negative prices, I can't think of anything in the application to prevent them. It's just that the keyboard that is displayed shows only numeric values -- no negative sign. I'm getting ready to release version 1.1, which will include a few bug fixes, along with language support for French, German, and Spanish. I can take a look at adding negative price support.
                  > >
                  > >Chuck
                  > >
                  > >--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, Greg Gaub <mailing.lists@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >> From the web site:
                  > >>
                  > >>- Multi-database
                  > >>- Multiple shopping lists per database
                  > >>- Shared Categories, Items, Stores within database
                  > >>- Filter by Category and/or Store
                  > >>- Searchable
                  > >>- PC Upload/download
                  > >>- Import from HandyShopper or CSV file using provided PC application
                  > >>- Multi-language
                  > >>- 600+ Item built-in database
                  > >>
                  > >>Download/read the User Guide + PC application from our SkyDrive at: https://skydrive.live.com/embedicon.aspx/The%20List?cid=d44d720c001c0a4c&sc=documents
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>Good job, Chuck!
                  > >>Can you share with everyone what kind of data loss, if any, takes place
                  > >>during HandyShopper list import?
                  > >>One of the biggest reasons I haven't moved to any of the Android list
                  > >>apps is that none of them support some important aspects of HandyShopper
                  > >>lists, not the least of which being negative prices. If there is
                  > >>anything at all that your app will drop, please let us know.
                  > >>
                  > >>-Greg
                  > >>
                  > >>robmikedad wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>>I'm pleased to announce that "The List" has been certified by Microsoft, and is now available on Windows Phone Marketplace. Here's the link: http://windowsphone.com/s?appid=2a349721-a43e-47d7-958d-bb5802c96a82
                  > >>>
                  > >>>Chuck
                  > >>>
                  > >>>--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "robmikedad" <chuck@> wrote:
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>>Update: Since the upcoming release of the Windows Phone operating system finally gives us developers a real database to work with, I'm now actively working on the application. I have my application running on my phone, using the beta version of Windows Phone "Mango" operating system. I'm still adding features, so it will still be awhile before it's available. "Mango" is rumored to be available sometime in September, so I'm hoping to wrap-up development and get it into the Microsoft certification process soon thereafter.
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>Chuck
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "r9177347464" <r9177347464@> wrote:
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>Pardon my lateness in joining the group, but I would LOVE to see HS on
                  > >>>>>WP7!! The screenshots you provided look very enticing, please may I know if there is a beta or any other version currently working on WP7 platform? I have tried several other apps and can't seem to find all the features HS had when I was on Win6.5
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@> wrote:
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>>Thanks Chris,
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>Yeah, I think I'll keep working on it - it is fun! Yes, the XML was only a short-term solution to get the app up-and-running while waiting for a real database to became available. There are a couple of 3rd party solutions, but I really want to wait until Microsoft provides their own.
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>Regarding the PDB, I found a C# library that can read the records into a collection - http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/SharpPDB.
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>Chuck
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>From: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handyshopper@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chrisant_wa
                  > >>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:48 AM
                  > >>>>>>To: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com
                  > >>>>>>Subject: Re: [HS] WP7 Version
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>--- "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@<mailto:chuck@>> wrote:
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>>I'm sorry Chris -- my app has a different name, but
                  > >>>>>>>at the last minute before posting, I changed it to
                  > >>>>>>>HandyShopper for the screenshot. I, in no way, want
                  > >>>>>>>to infringe.
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>Oh, that's fine, no worries. :-)
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>>If you are going to build a WP7 version, I'll quit
                  > >>>>>>>development on my app. I'd much rather have a version
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>>from you.
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>If you are having fun working on your app, then I'd say keep doing it! :-) Besides, if you keep at it you will probably have something ready before I do.
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>It is likely that I will build a WP7 version in the future. But there are some technical issues in the way right now (such as getting an existing database onto the device, backing up databases from the device, for starters). I would guess that once I do eventually start, something would not be ready for at least 6 months.
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>Also, just a heads-up on a technical challenge you'll want to solve. Saving the db as XML has a scaling problem: The more items are in a database, the longer it will take to save, since the entire database has to be serialized to XML. But when the user navigates away from an app, the device only gives an app a maximum of 10 seconds to finish what it's doing and exit gracefully. After that the OS kills the app in the middle of whatever it's doing. So saving needs to be fast, no matter how large a database is. (Setting a maximum number of items can be a temporary solution, but the time target should be at most 5 seconds, and beware that the emulator is faster than a real device). Even the PDB format won't work on WP7, but the PDB format didn't work on Palm devices either -- the PDB format was just the way the Palm devices backed up a database to disk, but in memory the database was in a totally different storage format. In order to scale to large numbers of items, an app will need to create its own storage format that can update items individually.
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>------------------------------------
                  > >>>
                  > >>>.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-.
                  > >>>HandyShopper Help: http://www.ggaub.com/hswiki/
                  > >>>-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-
                  > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > >.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-.
                  > >HandyShopper Help: http://www.ggaub.com/hswiki/
                  > >-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-
                  > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Voytek Eymont
                  ... Me too, love my Android phone. But I still use my Palm for most things, Handy Shopper, DateBook, Hours, Snapper, pFuel, Phrasebook, etc, etc. Voytek --
                  Message 8 of 22 , Oct 21, 2011
                    Greg Gaub <mailing.lists@...> wrote:


                    >
                    >I love my Android phone.... but I still use my Palm for HandyShopper.
                    >

                    Me too, love my Android phone.

                    But I still use my Palm for most things, Handy Shopper, DateBook, Hours, Snapper, pFuel, Phrasebook, etc, etc.

                    Voytek
                    --
                    Swyped on my Motrix with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
                  • Voytek Eymont
                    Voytek Eymont wrote: , ... Oops, Chequebook, Swype auto corrections are not always optimal.... Voytek -- Swyped on my Motrix with K-9 Mail.
                    Message 9 of 22 , Oct 21, 2011
                      Voytek Eymont <voytek@...> wrote:
                      ,
                      >Hours, Snapper, pFuel, Phrasebook, etc, etc.
                      >

                      Oops, Chequebook, Swype auto corrections are not always optimal....

                      Voytek
                      --
                      Swyped on my Motrix with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
                    • Aranda, Xavier
                      Well, in relation to using the entire database, having used Handyshopper for so long it is difficult to know what is and what is not in your application, as
                      Message 10 of 22 , Oct 24, 2011
                        Well, in relation to using the entire database, having used Handyshopper for so long it is difficult to know what is and what is not in your application, as everything is "natural" to me in HS database.

                        First thing coming to my mind is the Search function: you say the database is searchable, but is it searchable for any word in the description and in the notes? I guess for Notes the answer is no, as it is not yet in your database
                        What about Columns. Are there different columns and an option to display them (or not). Adjustable width?
                        Priority is a must for many of my lists, Icons (category icon and individual icon) are helpful although I don't use them much, of course Quantity and Price; I couldn't live without Aisles (or my shopping trips would be much longer); and per store prices and aisles. I used units and Unit price for a while, but not anymore, although I am sure many other do (did?). Show tip window while scrolling is also helpful. Finally, Date and alarms are very useful, but mainly for nonshopping list, and for alarms, I guess I do not really need them in HS. I didn't even try to Tech HS my shopping order, but this was because the order was well established before Chris added that option... and also because the Stores I visit change it too often.

                        Coupons: I don't use them for their original purpose (as many of us do with many of HS features), but do use them as an added filtering option in some databases ("Only show items with coupons" option)

                        Sorting lists is basic for my: I sort and re-sort them all the time for different purposes, with completed at bottom or not, but with separate sorts for needed and not needed. Also, the three status of an item (needed, not needed, checked or in-the-cart) are integrated in the way I understand my lists.

                        Options and features I use while shopping. Deferring items in the lists, Check out (I do not look at the totals), copying and modifying items in the list view OH! I was forgetting the One-handed mode!

                        After writing this list, I see I use many of HS features, and many of them I am not sure they are present in your application from the present description. In fact, I probably mixed what are Application features that do not depend on the DB (like sorting, tip window while scrolling...) with others that do depend, like Aisles or per store Aisles...Maybe you could point out which are already included and which o them could be incorporated in the future (to give a positive view of the application, rather than a list of what is not there)

                        Well, I hope this will encourage others to say what they use and what they could drop from HS, and that this will help you to develop your application to something than really resembles HS as it is used by most users.

                        Xavier Aranda
                        >-----Missatge original-----
                        >De: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handyshopper@yahoogroups.com]
                        >En nom de robmikedad
                        >Enviat: divendres, 21 / octubre / 2011 21:17
                        >Per a: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com
                        >Tema: [HS] Re: WP7 Version
                        >
                        >Thanks for the comment about importing Note data -- I needed to update
                        >the documentation. The import utility DOES import Note data.
                        >
                        >Regarding test-before-purchase, you can install the Trial version from
                        >the Marketplace.
                        >
                        >I tested negative prices, and all it took was changing the keyboard that
                        >is displayed when you are editing the price field.
                        >
                        >Now, about the database -- I had downloaded all of Chris' public domain
                        >code to analyze prior to the start of development. The issue is this:
                        >the code is written in the C++ programming language. C++ is not
                        >available for Windows Phone so I couldn't use it. That left me with two
                        >options: 1) convert the code to a language available for WP7 - either C#
                        >of VB.Net, which would allow the PDB to be downloaded to the phone and
                        >used without conversion, or 2) build a PC-based application, using the
                        >C++ code as-is, which would then allow me to convert the PDB into a
                        >database compatible with the database engine used by WP7.
                        >
                        >As much as I would have liked to used the entire database, it just
                        >wasn't feasable (at the time). That's not to say I couldn't do it.
                        >
                        >I'd be interested to hear from the WP7 folks how necessary it is to them
                        >to have the entire database.
                        >
                        >Chuck
                        >
                        >--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, Greg Gaub <mailing.lists@...>
                        >wrote:
                        >>
                        >> Ah. Well, I think you made some assumptions about HandyShopper
                        >> compatability that weren't entirely accurate. Chris didn't make the
                        >> database format public just to tease people. He WANTS people to
                        >develop
                        >> apps that use the database. At least, that's how I understand it.
                        >Sure,
                        >> calling it "HandyShopper" would be a bad idea, as your previously
                        >quoted
                        >> messages detail, but Chris was being downright helpful so that you
                        >could
                        >> be successful. Too bad yours is "just another" list app that takes a
                        >> converted HS database and drops most of the data. Too bad for people
                        >> like me, that is, who use HandyShopper BECAUSE of all those "extra"
                        >> things. Simple list apps abound on windows and android markets,
                        >> including many that can import csv and/or flat files of some kind. I
                        >> guess if one has no choice, then they have no choice, though.
                        >>
                        >> I strongly recommend at least trying to keep the Note data. Negative
                        >> prices might seem like a strange thing for a shopping list app, but
                        >that
                        >> function is one of the things that helped people make HandyShopper so
                        >> much more useful than "just" a shopping list app. If you can work that
                        >> in there, then I can't see how it would be a bad thing. Honestly,
                        >making
                        >> it as much like HandyShopper as you can is not something to avoid,
                        >it's
                        >> something to strive for.
                        >> Is HandyShopper perfect? Nothing is truly perfect, but HandyShopper is
                        >> as near perfect as any list app I've ever used.
                        >> If I had a WP7 phone, I'd surely try your app out... if there was a
                        >way
                        >> to. I saw that it wasn't free. Is there a way to test it prior to
                        >> paying? I never buy an app untested, and I'm sure there are many WP7
                        >> users like me.
                        >>
                        >> I love my Android phone.... but I still use my Palm for HandyShopper.
                        >>
                        >> -Greg
                        >>
                        >> robmikedad wrote:
                        >>
                        >> >The import process from Handyshopper makes use of the XML file that
                        >you create using the h3convert.exe utility. I made no attempt to fully
                        >import the data directly from the PDB database. I suspect that by not
                        >importing the full PDB, there is much that I missed.
                        >> >
                        >> >The data that is imported are: Description, need, units, quantity,
                        >price, tax, category, aisle, stores, and priority.
                        >> >
                        >> >This is also true for the CSV import -- the same fields are imported.
                        >> >
                        >> >Regarding its functionality, while I had originally thought about
                        >developing HandyShopper for WP7, I realized that 1) in order to get the
                        >application released in a timely manner, I wouldn't be able to do
                        >everything, 2) since I couldn't do everything, I had no way of knowing
                        >which features were important to everyone so that I could prioritize and
                        >try to get them included, and 3) HandyShopper is copywrited by Chris. I
                        >believe for me to make a duplicate of HandyShopper would violate that
                        >copywrite.
                        >> >
                        >> >I can't tell you what my app doesn't do in relation to HandyShopper
                        >because I never did a full analysis of it (for the reasons I stated
                        >above). The easiest way to see what my app can do is to read the User
                        >Guide.
                        >> >
                        >> >Regarding negative prices, I can't think of anything in the
                        >application to prevent them. It's just that the keyboard that is
                        >displayed shows only numeric values -- no negative sign. I'm getting
                        >ready to release version 1.1, which will include a few bug fixes, along
                        >with language support for French, German, and Spanish. I can take a
                        >look at adding negative price support.
                        >> >
                        >> >Chuck
                        >> >
                        >> >--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, Greg Gaub <mailing.lists@>
                        >wrote:
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> >> From the web site:
                        >> >>
                        >> >>- Multi-database
                        >> >>- Multiple shopping lists per database
                        >> >>- Shared Categories, Items, Stores within database
                        >> >>- Filter by Category and/or Store
                        >> >>- Searchable
                        >> >>- PC Upload/download
                        >> >>- Import from HandyShopper or CSV file using provided PC application
                        >> >>- Multi-language
                        >> >>- 600+ Item built-in database
                        >> >>
                        >> >>Download/read the User Guide + PC application from our SkyDrive at:
                        >https://skydrive.live.com/embedicon.aspx/The%20List?cid=d44d720c001c0a4c
                        >&sc=documents
                        >> >>
                        >> >>
                        >> >>
                        >> >>Good job, Chuck!
                        >> >>Can you share with everyone what kind of data loss, if any, takes
                        >place
                        >> >>during HandyShopper list import?
                        >> >>One of the biggest reasons I haven't moved to any of the Android
                        >list
                        >> >>apps is that none of them support some important aspects of
                        >HandyShopper
                        >> >>lists, not the least of which being negative prices. If there is
                        >> >>anything at all that your app will drop, please let us know.
                        >> >>
                        >> >>-Greg
                        >> >>
                        >> >>robmikedad wrote:
                        >> >>
                        >> >>
                        >> >>
                        >> >>>I'm pleased to announce that "The List" has been certified by
                        >Microsoft, and is now available on Windows Phone Marketplace. Here's
                        >the link: http://windowsphone.com/s?appid=2a349721-a43e-47d7-958d-
                        >bb5802c96a82
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>Chuck
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "robmikedad" <chuck@> wrote:
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>>Update: Since the upcoming release of the Windows Phone operating
                        >system finally gives us developers a real database to work with, I'm now
                        >actively working on the application. I have my application running on
                        >my phone, using the beta version of Windows Phone "Mango" operating
                        >system. I'm still adding features, so it will still be awhile before
                        >it's available. "Mango" is rumored to be available sometime in
                        >September, so I'm hoping to wrap-up development and get it into the
                        >Microsoft certification process soon thereafter.
                        >> >>>>
                        >> >>>>Chuck
                        >> >>>>
                        >> >>>>--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "r9177347464" <r9177347464@>
                        >wrote:
                        >> >>>>
                        >> >>>>
                        >> >>>>
                        >> >>>>
                        >> >>>>>
                        >> >>>>>Pardon my lateness in joining the group, but I would LOVE to see
                        >HS on
                        >> >>>>>WP7!! The screenshots you provided look very enticing, please
                        >may I know if there is a beta or any other version currently working on
                        >WP7 platform? I have tried several other apps and can't seem to find
                        >all the features HS had when I was on Win6.5
                        >> >>>>>
                        >> >>>>>
                        >> >>>>>--- In handyshopper@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kee (chuck@)"
                        ><chuck@> wrote:
                        >> >>>>>
                        >> >>>>>
                        >> >>>>>
                        >> >>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>Thanks Chris,
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>Yeah, I think I'll keep working on it - it is fun! Yes, the XML
                        >was only a short-term solution to get the app up-and-running while
                        >waiting for a real database to became available. There are a couple of
                        >3rd party solutions, but I really want to wait until Microsoft provides
                        >their own.
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>Regarding the PDB, I found a C# library that can read the
                        >records into a collection - http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/SharpPDB.
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>Chuck
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>From: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com
                        >[mailto:handyshopper@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chrisant_wa
                        >> >>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:48 AM
                        >> >>>>>>To: handyshopper@yahoogroups.com
                        >> >>>>>>Subject: Re: [HS] WP7 Version
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>--- "Chuck Kee (chuck@)" <chuck@<mailto:chuck@>> wrote:
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>>I'm sorry Chris -- my app has a different name, but
                        >> >>>>>>>at the last minute before posting, I changed it to
                        >> >>>>>>>HandyShopper for the screenshot. I, in no way, want
                        >> >>>>>>>to infringe.
                        >> >>>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>Oh, that's fine, no worries. :-)
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>>If you are going to build a WP7 version, I'll quit
                        >> >>>>>>>development on my app. I'd much rather have a version
                        >> >>>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>>from you.
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>If you are having fun working on your app, then I'd say keep
                        >doing it! :-) Besides, if you keep at it you will probably have
                        >something ready before I do.
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>It is likely that I will build a WP7 version in the future. But
                        >there are some technical issues in the way right now (such as getting an
                        >existing database onto the device, backing up databases from the device,
                        >for starters). I would guess that once I do eventually start, something
                        >would not be ready for at least 6 months.
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>Also, just a heads-up on a technical challenge you'll want to
                        >solve. Saving the db as XML has a scaling problem: The more items are in
                        >a database, the longer it will take to save, since the entire database
                        >has to be serialized to XML. But when the user navigates away from an
                        >app, the device only gives an app a maximum of 10 seconds to finish what
                        >it's doing and exit gracefully. After that the OS kills the app in the
                        >middle of whatever it's doing. So saving needs to be fast, no matter how
                        >large a database is. (Setting a maximum number of items can be a
                        >temporary solution, but the time target should be at most 5 seconds, and
                        >beware that the emulator is faster than a real device). Even the PDB
                        >format won't work on WP7, but the PDB format didn't work on Palm devices
                        >either -- the PDB format was just the way the Palm devices backed up a
                        >database to disk, but in memory the database was in a totally different
                        >storage format. In order to scale to large numbers of items, an app will
                        >n
                        >eed to create its own storage format that can update items individually.
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>>>>
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>------------------------------------
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-.
                        >> >>>HandyShopper Help: http://www.ggaub.com/hswiki/
                        >> >>>-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-
                        >> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>
                        >> >>>
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> >------------------------------------
                        >> >
                        >> >.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-.
                        >> >HandyShopper Help: http://www.ggaub.com/hswiki/
                        >> >-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-
                        >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >------------------------------------
                        >
                        >.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-.
                        >HandyShopper Help: http://www.ggaub.com/hswiki/
                        >-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-
                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
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