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Re: Hammock Camping Digest Number 85

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  • rosaleen43@aol.com
    Hi, Geoflyfisher, Thanks for the response. I have a couple of comments, inserted below. ... ##### I believe most of the silnylon that I ve seen is also
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 3, 2003
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      Hi, "Geoflyfisher,"

      Thanks for the response.  I have a couple of comments, inserted below.

         From: "geoflyfisher" <geoflyfisher@...>
      Subject: Re: Near Disaster! "Autopsy" Results

      Hi Rosaleen,

      Great points in your post (pun intended ;) )

      The hammock material which failed was uncoated ripstop nylon.  I was
      using a standard sewing machine needle...  not ball point, not
      cutting needle, just sharp...  When I made the bar tack, I had just
      sewn dozens of feet of hook and also loop velcro, which tends to
      cause burrs on the needle occasionally. 

      I believe that ripstop nylon would be less likely to be weakened by
      sewing than silnylon is.  The silicone stablizes the fabric thread
      and may allow it to be cut by a needle when regular woven cloth
      threads would be allowed to be separated by the needle. 

      ##### I believe most of the silnylon that I've seen is also ripstop, but it was a finer denier (thinner) than most polyester or nylon ripstops that I've seen.  I've only done a very little sewing with silnylon, so far.  I really don't know whether to expect the fibers to be pushed aside by either a ball point or woven point needle, if it matters at all, or if we really need the finest, cleanest possible holes, or the optimum spacing to further reduce further weakening, and hope the silicone will stabilize the fabric to stop fraying or other problems.  I would rather not find out the hard way!


      For this reason, silnylon and tyvek may have some inherent weakness
      for the weight supporting part of hammock making which the woven
      ripstop does not. 

      ####### I suspect the main concerns here would be the thickness, leading to the strength of the materials, and whether or not they have weak spots from stitching lines.  If the fabric behaves as if it were perforated, as opposed to sewn , I infer a big problem.   I don't know if Tyvek is spun or woven.  It seems almost pressed, like paper.  We all have seen perforated paper, and what the perforations are for.  I think most fabrics fit either "woven" or "knitted."  So, I think you are trying to distinguish between silnylon and non-silnylon fabrics.  Sport cloth seems to refer to a range of (mostly) nylon fabrics, of varying deniers, coatings or non coatings, etc., in my local fabric shops.  Unfortunately, no one around here seems to carry silnylon, or other materials desirable to the lightweight crowd.  Silnylon comes in different deniers, too.  I'm pretty sure the body and fly of my Hennessy Asym Ultralight is silnylon.  I will have to look closely to see if it is ripstop. 

      I pointed out what I did to allow others to avoid over sewing the
      velcro at such a vulnerable location.  As Ed Speer noted, it is
      likely the many needle punctures of the material which caused
      weakness instead of strength.

      I picked that up before, and think it is a good point to keep in mind.  Maybe save bartacks for flexible, stretchable materials like denim for jeans? 

      Cheers,

      Rosaleen

    • geoflyfisher
      Good morning to all who are reading the thread on needle holes. Rosaleen and I have traded notes under several topic names, this one may be more descriptive.
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 3, 2003
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        Good morning to all who are reading the thread on needle holes.
        Rosaleen and I have traded notes under several topic names, this one
        may be more descriptive.

        The underlying fabric in silnylon is ripstop. But with the silicone
        in it the stuff does not act much like ripstop. It is really strong
        for its weight. However, when the edge of silnylon is cut with a
        pair of scissors, it does not fray at all. AT ALL!

        The holes made by seams I have removed in silnylon look just like
        paper perforations... just like tyveck. BTW, the tyveck does look
        like it is pressed fiber, like paper. It is not woven. Some tyveck
        (like that used in envelopes) has a tendency to separate in one
        direction, so I presume the fibers in the mat are oriented mostly in
        a direction parallel to those tears.

        <>< aka Flyfisher aka geoflyfisher aka Rick aka radiohiker

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, rosaleen43@a... wrote:
        > Hi, "Geoflyfisher,"
        >
        > Thanks for the response. I have a couple of comments, inserted
        below.
        > >
        > > From: "geoflyfisher" <geoflyfisher@y...>
        > > Subject: Re: Near Disaster! "Autopsy" Results
        > >
        > > Hi Rosaleen,
        > >
        > > Great points in your post (pun intended ;) )
        > >
        > > The hammock material which failed was uncoated ripstop nylon. I
        was
        > > using a standard sewing machine needle... not ball point, not
        > > cutting needle, just sharp... When I made the bar tack, I had
        just
        > > sewn dozens of feet of hook and also loop velcro, which tends to
        > > cause burrs on the needle occasionally.
        > >
        > > I believe that ripstop nylon would be less likely to be weakened
        by
        > > sewing than silnylon is. The silicone stablizes the fabric
        thread
        > > and may allow it to be cut by a needle when regular woven cloth
        > > threads would be allowed to be separated by the needle.
        > >
        > ##### I believe most of the silnylon that I've seen is also
        ripstop, but it
        > was a finer denier (thinner) than most polyester or nylon ripstops
        that I've
        > seen. I've only done a very little sewing with silnylon, so far.
        I really
        > don't know whether to expect the fibers to be pushed aside by
        either a ball
        > point or woven point needle, if it matters at all, or if we really
        need the
        > finest, cleanest possible holes, or the optimum spacing to further
        reduce
        > further weakening, and hope the silicone will stabilize the fabric
        to stop
        > fraying or other problems. I would rather not find out the hard
        way!
        >
        >
        > > For this reason, silnylon and tyvek may have some inherent
        weakness
        > > for the weight supporting part of hammock making which the woven
        > > ripstop does not.
        > >
        > ####### I suspect the main concerns here would be the thickness,
        leading to
        > the strength of the materials, and whether or not they have weak
        spots from
        > stitching lines. If the fabric behaves as if it were perforated,
        as opposed
        > to sewn , I infer a big problem. I don't know if Tyvek is spun or
        woven.
        > It seems almost pressed, like paper. We all have seen perforated
        paper, and
        > what the perforations are for. I think most fabrics fit
        either "woven" or
        > "knitted." So, I think you are trying to distinguish between
        silnylon and
        > non-silnylon fabrics. Sport cloth seems to refer to a range of
        (mostly)
        > nylon fabrics, of varying deniers, coatings or non coatings, etc.,
        in my
        > local fabric shops. Unfortunately, no one around here seems to
        carry
        > silnylon, or other materials desirable to the lightweight crowd.
        Silnylon
        > comes in different deniers, too. I'm pretty sure the body and fly
        of my
        > Hennessy Asym Ultralight is silnylon. I will have to look closely
        to see if
        > it is ripstop.
        >
        > > I pointed out what I did to allow others to avoid over sewing the
        > > velcro at such a vulnerable location. As Ed Speer noted, it is
        > > likely the many needle punctures of the material which caused
        > > weakness instead of strength.
        > >
        > > I picked that up before, and think it is a good point to keep in
        mind.
        > > Maybe save bartacks for flexible, stretchable materials like
        denim for
        > > jeans?
        > >
        > > Cheers,
        > >
        > > Rosaleen
      • rosaleen43@aol.com
        In a message dated 4/3/2003 8:30:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
        Message 3 of 3 , Apr 3, 2003
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          In a message dated 4/3/2003 8:30:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com writes:
          Flyfisher-

          Most of us who sew have had an occasion to rip out a seam.  The needle holes can be steamed out by pressing.  This would likely present a bit of a problem with silnylon.  I'll have to try pressing some silnylon between sheets of aluminum foil to see how it acts.  At lest we know that we can plug those holes with thinned silicone sealer, if necessary,

          Rosaleen






            From: "geoflyfisher" <geoflyfisher@...>
          Subject: Needle Holes and fabric

          Good morning to all who are reading the thread on needle holes. 
          Rosaleen and I have traded notes under several topic names, this one
          may be more descriptive.

          The underlying fabric in silnylon is ripstop.  But with the silicone
          in it the stuff does not act much like ripstop.  It is really strong
          for its weight.  However, when the edge of silnylon is cut with a
          pair of scissors, it does not fray at all.  AT ALL! 

          The holes made by seams I have removed in silnylon look just like
          paper perforations...  just like tyveck.  BTW, the tyveck does look
          like it is pressed fiber, like paper.  It is not woven.  Some tyveck
          (like that used in envelopes) has a tendency to separate in one
          direction, so I presume the fibers in the mat are oriented mostly in
          a direction parallel to those tears.



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