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About Vertical Sticks

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  • Edley McKnight
    Hi folks, Some trees at some times of the year are very sensitive to pressure on the bark as the live part of the tree is only just under the outer bark which
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 7, 2005
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      Hi folks,

      Some trees at some times of the year are very sensitive to pressure on
      the bark as the live part of the tree is only just under the outer
      bark which may be very thin at times of the year. Vertical streaks of
      damage heal very easily where horizontal streaks can partly or
      completely girdle the tree ( kill the living part under the bark in a
      ring. ) Any rope or even the webbing can cinch down to cause this kind
      of damage. I think the vertical sticks are a great idea and will be
      happy to use them in the future.

      Edley.
    • marta_clark
      My unscientific hunch is that damage would be more likely to occur to young trees, which have thinner, more delicate bark. A 4 diameter maple, for example,
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 8, 2005
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        My unscientific hunch is that damage would be more likely to occur to
        young trees, which have thinner, more delicate bark. A 4" diameter
        maple, for example, has fairly thin bark. An 8" diameter maple has
        usually developed a thicker, scalier bark, which would not transmit the
        pressure of the straps into the living layer underneath nearly as
        much. So, while the 4" diameter tree might be able to sustain the
        hammock's load easily enough without bending, it might not be the best
        choice for low-impact hammocking.

        Marta

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Edley McKnight" <edleym@y...>
        wrote:
        > Hi folks,
        >
        > Some trees at some times of the year are very sensitive to pressure on
        > the bark as the live part of the tree is only just under the outer
        > bark which may be very thin at times of the year. Vertical streaks of
        > damage heal very easily where horizontal streaks can partly or
        > completely girdle the tree ( kill the living part under the bark in a
        > ring. ) Any rope or even the webbing can cinch down to cause this kind
        > of damage. I think the vertical sticks are a great idea and will be
        > happy to use them in the future.
        >
        > Edley.
      • hiking@westernpa.us
        Depends on the tree, silver maple always has a thin bark, as does ash and birch, whereas pine, oak and chestnut tend to have thicker barks. mike
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 8, 2005
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          Depends on the tree, silver maple always has a thin bark, as does ash and
          birch, whereas pine, oak and chestnut tend to have thicker barks.

          mike

          > My unscientific hunch is that damage would be more likely to occur to
          > young trees, which have thinner, more delicate bark. A 4" diameter
          > maple, for example, has fairly thin bark. An 8" diameter maple has
          > usually developed a thicker, scalier bark, which would not transmit the
          > pressure of the straps into the living layer underneath nearly as
          > much. So, while the 4" diameter tree might be able to sustain the
          > hammock's load easily enough without bending, it might not be the best
          > choice for low-impact hammocking.
          >
          > Marta
        • Rick
          Hi Edley, Any research available to show how long the bark needs to be pressured to cause damage? I know of no tree on my property that has ever been damaged
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 8, 2005
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            Hi Edley,

            Any research available to show how long the bark needs to be pressured
            to cause damage? I know of no tree on my property that has ever been
            damaged by hammock straps kept on overnight. And I have used some
            pretty thin skinned trees many, many times, including most times of the
            year. I would seriously like to know if there is research, or who might
            be doing such research, because I think it would be useful to collect
            the actual facts and publish them on the Internet.

            Risk

            Edley McKnight wrote:

            > Hi folks,
            >
            > Some trees at some times of the year are very sensitive to pressure on
            > the bark as the live part of the tree is only just under the outer
            > bark which may be very thin at times of the year. Vertical streaks of
            > damage heal very easily where horizontal streaks can partly or
            > completely girdle the tree ( kill the living part under the bark in a
            > ring. ) Any rope or even the webbing can cinch down to cause this kind
            > of damage. I think the vertical sticks are a great idea and will be
            > happy to use them in the future.
            >
            > Edley.
            >
            >
            >
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Edley McKnight
            Hi Risk, There probably are research results, but I ve been going by what Foresters and Horticulturists have told me during times I ve helped out by working
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 8, 2005
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              Hi Risk,

              There probably are research results, but I've been going by what
              Foresters and Horticulturists have told me during times I've helped
              out by working for the Forest Service and as a docent in animal parks.

              The damage done, as I'm told, is often to just slow the growth of
              branches above the injury, sometimes leading to a branch dying out.
              Heavy girdling, enough to totally kill the whole tree would no doubt
              take some greater period of time than overnight with a hammock. Of
              course if multiple campers hang a hammock from the same tree over a
              full summer, there might be a lot more damage. In many parks various
              camping areas are cycled in order to allow them to recover from
              damage. Redwoods I know are damaged just by foot trafic over their
              widespread root system.

              The next time I'm working with an expert, I'll ask them for some
              research references. Probably be a while though.

              Edley.

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@i...> wrote:
              > Hi Edley,
              >
              > Any research available to show how long the bark needs to be pressured
              > to cause damage? I know of no tree on my property that has ever been
              > damaged by hammock straps kept on overnight. And I have used some
              > pretty thin skinned trees many, many times, including most times of the
              > year. I would seriously like to know if there is research, or who
              might
              > be doing such research, because I think it would be useful to collect
              > the actual facts and publish them on the Internet.
              >
              > Risk
              >
              > Edley McKnight wrote:
              >
              > > Hi folks,
              > >
              > > Some trees at some times of the year are very sensitive to pressure on
              > > the bark as the live part of the tree is only just under the outer
              > > bark which may be very thin at times of the year. Vertical streaks of
              > > damage heal very easily where horizontal streaks can partly or
              > > completely girdle the tree ( kill the living part under the bark in a
              > > ring. ) Any rope or even the webbing can cinch down to cause this kind
              > > of damage. I think the vertical sticks are a great idea and will be
              > > happy to use them in the future.
              > >
              > > Edley.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
              > >
              > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/
              > >
              > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              <mailto:hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
              > >
              > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • zippydooda
              Hmm, I m not buying it. Nothing personal, of course. See below. ... parks. ... The layer on the outside of the tree is used by the tree to transport
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 8, 2005
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                Hmm, I'm not buying it. Nothing personal, of course. See below.

                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Edley McKnight" <edleym@y...>
                wrote:
                > Hi Risk,
                >
                > There probably are research results, but I've been going by what
                > Foresters and Horticulturists have told me during times I've helped
                > out by working for the Forest Service and as a docent in animal
                parks.
                >
                > The damage done, as I'm told, is often to just slow the growth of
                > branches above the injury, sometimes leading to a branch dying out.
                > Heavy girdling, enough to totally kill the whole tree would no doubt
                > take some greater period of time than overnight with a hammock.
                <snip>

                The layer on the outside of the tree is used by the tree to transport
                nutrients/etc DOWNWARD to the roots. The water/etc uptaken by the
                roots travels UPWARD in the "wood" of the tree. Actual damage to the
                outside of the tree would cause roots below it to die, not branches
                above it. A sufficiently girdled tree dies due to the starvation of
                the roots rather than the inability of the tree to move
                water/nutrients upward.

                So what I'm getting at is that whoever told you that may have seemed
                knowledgeable, but didn't really understand how trees work. To me,
                this puts their whole spiel under a cloud of suspicion - it's stuff
                that they made up to support their own beliefs.

                <http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/92/1/137>

                Bill in Houston (who in 7th grade science class never suspected that
                this might be relevant to his life)

                > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@i...> wrote:
                > > Hi Edley,
                > >
                > > Any research available to show how long the bark needs to be
                pressured
                > > to cause damage? I know of no tree on my property that has ever
                been
                > > damaged by hammock straps kept on overnight. <snip>
              • Rick
                I am a very patient sort. I would appreciate knowing results of research. If the expert has an opinion, then I am interested in knowing why they believe what
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 8, 2005
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                  I am a very patient sort. I would appreciate knowing results of
                  research. If the expert has an opinion, then I am interested in knowing
                  why they believe what they do. BTW, the trees that I hang from in my
                  yard are in use probably 30 days per year. I doubt that any park trees
                  would ever get nearly as much use.

                  Risk

                  Edley McKnight wrote:

                  > Hi Risk,
                  >
                  > There probably are research results, but I've been going by what
                  > Foresters and Horticulturists have told me during times I've helped
                  > out by working for the Forest Service and as a docent in animal parks.
                  >
                  > The damage done, as I'm told, is often to just slow the growth of
                  > branches above the injury, sometimes leading to a branch dying out.
                  > Heavy girdling, enough to totally kill the whole tree would no doubt
                  > take some greater period of time than overnight with a hammock. Of
                  > course if multiple campers hang a hammock from the same tree over a
                  > full summer, there might be a lot more damage. In many parks various
                  > camping areas are cycled in order to allow them to recover from
                  > damage. Redwoods I know are damaged just by foot trafic over their
                  > widespread root system.
                  >
                  > The next time I'm working with an expert, I'll ask them for some
                  > research references. Probably be a while though.
                  >
                  > Edley.
                  >
                  > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@i...> wrote:
                  > > Hi Edley,
                  > >
                  > > Any research available to show how long the bark needs to be pressured
                  > > to cause damage? I know of no tree on my property that has ever been
                  > > damaged by hammock straps kept on overnight. And I have used some
                  > > pretty thin skinned trees many, many times, including most times of the
                  > > year. I would seriously like to know if there is research, or who
                  > might
                  > > be doing such research, because I think it would be useful to collect
                  > > the actual facts and publish them on the Internet.
                  > >
                  > > Risk
                  > >
                  > > Edley McKnight wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Hi folks,
                  > > >
                  > > > Some trees at some times of the year are very sensitive to pressure on
                  > > > the bark as the live part of the tree is only just under the outer
                  > > > bark which may be very thin at times of the year. Vertical streaks of
                  > > > damage heal very easily where horizontal streaks can partly or
                  > > > completely girdle the tree ( kill the living part under the bark in a
                  > > > ring. ) Any rope or even the webbing can cinch down to cause this kind
                  > > > of damage. I think the vertical sticks are a great idea and will be
                  > > > happy to use them in the future.
                  > > >
                  > > > Edley.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
                  > > >
                  > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/
                  > > >
                  > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > > hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >
                  > <mailto:hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                  > > >
                  > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
                  >
                  > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/
                  >
                  > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                  >
                  > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Edley McKnight
                  I guess that depends on the kind of tree. I m told that some trees the only transportation occurs in the layer just inside the bark, going both up and down.
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 9, 2005
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                    I guess that depends on the kind of tree. I'm told that some trees
                    the only transportation occurs in the layer just inside the bark,
                    going both up and down. I wish some Forester would hop in and set us
                    all right on this subject. Unfortunately I'm not now in contact with
                    any. I was just hoping to add some reasoning to the report that some
                    park rangers require the vertical sticks.

                    Anybody know a Forester or so?

                    Edley.

                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "zippydooda" <zippydooda@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > Hmm, I'm not buying it. Nothing personal, of course. See below.
                    >
                    > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Edley McKnight" <edleym@y...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > Hi Risk,
                    > >
                    > > There probably are research results, but I've been going by what
                    > > Foresters and Horticulturists have told me during times I've helped
                    > > out by working for the Forest Service and as a docent in animal
                    > parks.
                    > >
                    > > The damage done, as I'm told, is often to just slow the growth of
                    > > branches above the injury, sometimes leading to a branch dying out.
                    > > Heavy girdling, enough to totally kill the whole tree would no doubt
                    > > take some greater period of time than overnight with a hammock.
                    > <snip>
                    >
                    > The layer on the outside of the tree is used by the tree to transport
                    > nutrients/etc DOWNWARD to the roots. The water/etc uptaken by the
                    > roots travels UPWARD in the "wood" of the tree. Actual damage to the
                    > outside of the tree would cause roots below it to die, not branches
                    > above it. A sufficiently girdled tree dies due to the starvation of
                    > the roots rather than the inability of the tree to move
                    > water/nutrients upward.
                    >
                    > So what I'm getting at is that whoever told you that may have seemed
                    > knowledgeable, but didn't really understand how trees work. To me,
                    > this puts their whole spiel under a cloud of suspicion - it's stuff
                    > that they made up to support their own beliefs.
                    >
                    > <http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/92/1/137>
                    >
                    > Bill in Houston (who in 7th grade science class never suspected that
                    > this might be relevant to his life)
                    >
                    > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@i...> wrote:
                    > > > Hi Edley,
                    > > >
                    > > > Any research available to show how long the bark needs to be
                    > pressured
                    > > > to cause damage? I know of no tree on my property that has ever
                    > been
                    > > > damaged by hammock straps kept on overnight. <snip>
                  • Ralph Oborn
                    My comment about vertical sticks that apparently started all this, was from a few years ago, one ranger, in Yellowstone backcountry, who was not an expert. I
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 9, 2005
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                      My comment about vertical sticks that apparently started all this, was
                      from a few years ago, one ranger, in Yellowstone backcountry, who was
                      not an expert.

                      I guess this all points out. Your trees may vary, use your judgement.

                      Your Ranger may vary, be polite (as was pointed out here) They "take
                      ownership" ot their trees.

                      Ralph

                      On 6/9/05, Edley McKnight <edleym@...> wrote:
                      > I guess that depends on the kind of tree. I'm told that some trees
                      > the only transportation occurs in the layer just inside the bark,
                      > going both up and down. I wish some Forester would hop in and set us
                      > all right on this subject. Unfortunately I'm not now in contact with
                      > any. I was just hoping to add some reasoning to the report that some
                      > park rangers require the vertical sticks.
                      >
                      > Anybody know a Forester or so?
                      >
                      > Edley.
                      >
                      > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "zippydooda" <zippydooda@y...>
                      >
                      > wrote:
                      > > Hmm, I'm not buying it. Nothing personal, of course. See below.
                      > >
                      > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Edley McKnight" <edleym@y...>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > > Hi Risk,
                      > > >
                      > > > There probably are research results, but I've been going by what
                      > > > Foresters and Horticulturists have told me during times I've helped
                      > > > out by working for the Forest Service and as a docent in animal
                      > > parks.
                      > > >
                      > > > The damage done, as I'm told, is often to just slow the growth of
                      > > > branches above the injury, sometimes leading to a branch dying out.
                      > > > Heavy girdling, enough to totally kill the whole tree would no doubt
                      > > > take some greater period of time than overnight with a hammock.
                      > > <snip>
                      > >
                      > > The layer on the outside of the tree is used by the tree to transport
                      > > nutrients/etc DOWNWARD to the roots. The water/etc uptaken by the
                      > > roots travels UPWARD in the "wood" of the tree. Actual damage to the
                      > > outside of the tree would cause roots below it to die, not branches
                      > > above it. A sufficiently girdled tree dies due to the starvation of
                      > > the roots rather than the inability of the tree to move
                      > > water/nutrients upward.
                      > >
                      > > So what I'm getting at is that whoever told you that may have seemed
                      > > knowledgeable, but didn't really understand how trees work. To me,
                      > > this puts their whole spiel under a cloud of suspicion - it's stuff
                      > > that they made up to support their own beliefs.
                      > >
                      > > <http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/92/1/137>
                      > >
                      > > Bill in Houston (who in 7th grade science class never suspected that
                      > > this might be relevant to his life)
                      > >
                      > > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@i...> wrote:
                      > > > > Hi Edley,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Any research available to show how long the bark needs to be
                      > > pressured
                      > > > > to cause damage? I know of no tree on my property that has ever
                      > > been
                      > > > > damaged by hammock straps kept on overnight. <snip>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
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                      >
                      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/
                      >
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                      >
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                    • zippydooda
                      ... Nah. ... ... transport ... the ... the ... branches ... of ... seemed ... me, ... stuff ... that
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jun 9, 2005
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                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Edley McKnight" <edleym@y...>
                        wrote:
                        > I guess that depends on the kind of tree.

                        Nah.

                        > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "zippydooda"
                        <zippydooda@y...>
                        > wrote:
                        > > Hmm, I'm not buying it. Nothing personal, of course. See below.
                        > >
                        > > The layer on the outside of the tree is used by the tree to
                        transport
                        > > nutrients/etc DOWNWARD to the roots. The water/etc uptaken by
                        the
                        > > roots travels UPWARD in the "wood" of the tree. Actual damage to
                        the
                        > > outside of the tree would cause roots below it to die, not
                        branches
                        > > above it. A sufficiently girdled tree dies due to the starvation
                        of
                        > > the roots rather than the inability of the tree to move
                        > > water/nutrients upward.
                        > >
                        > > So what I'm getting at is that whoever told you that may have
                        seemed
                        > > knowledgeable, but didn't really understand how trees work. To
                        me,
                        > > this puts their whole spiel under a cloud of suspicion - it's
                        stuff
                        > > that they made up to support their own beliefs.
                        > >
                        > > <http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/92/1/137>
                        > >
                        > > Bill in Houston (who in 7th grade science class never suspected
                        that
                        > > this might be relevant to his life)
                        > >
                        > >
                      • Doug Meredith
                        Edley McKnight ... Yes. They mostly seem to be concerned with harvesting trees. Doug -- Doug Meredith (doug.meredith@systemguard.com)
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jun 9, 2005
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                          "Edley McKnight" <edleym@...>
                          wrote:

                          >Anybody know a Forester or so?

                          Yes. They mostly seem to be concerned with harvesting trees.

                          Doug
                          --
                          Doug Meredith (doug.meredith@...)
                          SystemGuard - Oracle remote support
                          877-974-8273 (87-SYSGUARD)
                          506-854-7997
                          www.systemguard.com
                        • B.M. Dyleski
                          I don t see a hammock damaging a tree-how long are you going to hang it, 2-3 weeks? You may bruise bark on thin barked trees where land managers and hikers
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jun 21, 2005
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                            I don't see a hammock damaging a tree-how long are you going to hang it, 2-3 weeks? You may bruise bark on thin barked trees where land managers and hikers would not appreciate the marks.Killing a tree by hanging a hammock on it would be difficult in deed.The living part of the tree is under the bark which transports nutrients up from roots. On thick barked trees like oaks there is little effect a hammock would have.The sticks might be a good idea on an aspen or birch. It is never a bad thing to consider your impact on the world around you. BMD-a forester or so

                            Doug Meredith <doug.meredith@...> wrote:"Edley McKnight" <edleym@...>
                            wrote:

                            >Anybody know a Forester or so?

                            Yes. They mostly seem to be concerned with harvesting trees.

                            Doug
                            --
                            Doug Meredith (doug.meredith@...)
                            SystemGuard - Oracle remote support
                            877-974-8273 (87-SYSGUARD)
                            506-854-7997
                            www.systemguard.com



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