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Re: follow-up on catenary cut hammock body

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  • Ray Garlington
    ... Currently, My hammock is 60 ... bolt), but there s a ton of ... that width down to 54 ... I can vouch for the change from 60 inches down to about 52
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy" <jeremy@j...> wrote:
      > I also would like to experiment with hammock width more.
      Currently, My hammock is 60"
      > wide (I used $1/yd 1.1oz rs from Wal*Mart, straight off of the
      bolt), but there's a ton of
      > space in that width that I can't use. I want to see how bringing
      that width down to 54
      > inches, and then to 48 inches will effect things.

      I can vouch for the change from 60 inches down to about 52 inches. I
      do not miss the extra fabric at all.


      >Particularly, I'd like to rid the edges of
      > "floppy" useless hammock fabric, which is where these catenary
      curves may come in to
      > play.

      I just pull out about 2 to 3 inches at the hemmed end before
      whipping. That allows the edge of the hammock to pull taught when
      occupied. My version of the asym, catenary cut didn't help tighten
      the floppy edges any. The asym cut did create more noticeable
      pockets of fabric at the foot and head.
    • Jeremy
      Ray, I m just finishing a shorter hammock right now (8 feet long). While it s still 5 feet wide, I think I ll lay in it for a while, undo the whipping, and
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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        Ray,

        I'm just finishing a shorter hammock right now (8 feet long). While it's still 5 feet wide, I
        think I'll lay in it for a while, undo the whipping, and cut it down to 4 feet to see what
        happens.

        Even when pulling the last 2-3 inches before whipping, it's still limp along the edges. I
        think it may be due, at least in part, to the width of the fabric. I'll report back if and when
        I do cut it down.

        Right now, I'm thinking that if I do cut it down and the edges are still too floppy, I might
        cut catenary curves in the long sides to help tension it.

        I know what you mean about "pocket" os extra fabric with the Asym cut. It didn't occur to
        me until this morning that I experimented with something similar to that a while back.
        Instead of making it a curve, however, I symply cut the hammock body as a paralellogram.
        It did make the sleeping surface really flat, but it was uncomfortably flat. I abandond the
        idea after spending a night after the test in my pre-Asym HH UL Backpacker. So much
        more comfortable.

        -howie

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington" <rgarling@y...> wrote:
        > I can vouch for the change from 60 inches down to about 52 inches. I
        > do not miss the extra fabric at all.

        > I just pull out about 2 to 3 inches at the hemmed end before
        > whipping. That allows the edge of the hammock to pull taught when
        > occupied. My version of the asym, catenary cut didn't help tighten
        > the floppy edges any. The asym cut did create more noticeable
        > pockets of fabric at the foot and head.
      • Mirage
        ... While it s still 5 feet wide, I ... down to 4 feet to see what ... inches. I ... Howie, My current system is an 8 x4 (96 x48 ) cut piece, with whipped
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy" <jeremy@j...> wrote:
          >
          > Ray,
          >
          > I'm just finishing a shorter hammock right now (8 feet long).
          While it's still 5 feet wide, I
          > think I'll lay in it for a while, undo the whipping, and cut it
          down to 4 feet to see what
          > happens.
          >
          > -howie
          >
          > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington"
          <rgarling@y...> wrote:
          > > I can vouch for the change from 60 inches down to about 52
          inches. I
          > > do not miss the extra fabric at all.

          Howie,

          My current system is an 8'x4' (96"x48") cut piece, with whipped
          ends. The 4' width works great for me, but after many nights in the
          8' length, I've determined it's just a might bit short, mostly
          causing tightness and compression of my feet over the course of the
          night. It's tolerable, but an extra 6" will probably make it
          perfect. I'm 5'10" tall, so take that into account when you compare
          to your own needs/desires.

          Shane "Mirage"...
        • woody woodrich
          Ray, what do you mean when you say you pull out facric before whipping? Thanks, Woody in DC ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo!
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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            Ray, what do you mean when you say you 'pull out'
            facric before whipping? Thanks, Woody in DC
            --- Ray Garlington <rgarling@...> wrote:

            >
            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy"
            > <jeremy@j...> wrote:
            > > I also would like to experiment with hammock width
            > more.
            > Currently, My hammock is 60"
            > > wide (I used $1/yd 1.1oz rs from Wal*Mart,
            > straight off of the
            > bolt), but there's a ton of
            > > space in that width that I can't use. I want to
            > see how bringing
            > that width down to 54
            > > inches, and then to 48 inches will effect things.
            >
            >
            > I can vouch for the change from 60 inches down to
            > about 52 inches. I
            > do not miss the extra fabric at all.
            >
            >
            > >Particularly, I'd like to rid the edges of
            > > "floppy" useless hammock fabric, which is where
            > these catenary
            > curves may come in to
            > > play.
            >
            > I just pull out about 2 to 3 inches at the hemmed
            > end before
            > whipping. That allows the edge of the hammock to
            > pull taught when
            > occupied. My version of the asym, catenary cut
            > didn't help tighten
            > the floppy edges any. The asym cut did create more
            > noticeable
            > pockets of fabric at the foot and head.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




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          • Jeremy
            Mirage, Good to hear that 4 feet width will probably be OK. Just so you know, I m 5 10 , 160lbs. Your post raises an interesting question for me, however.
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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              Mirage,

              Good to hear that 4 feet width will probably be OK.

              Just so you know, I'm 5'10", 160lbs.

              Your post raises an interesting question for me, however. Your quilt is 84" long while your
              hammock is 96" long, correct? Does the quilt just bunch up around the hammock for the
              end 6 inches on each side? If so, doesn't it limit the spread of the hammock near the end?
              And if you went to a longer hammock (even just 6" longer), would you need to make a
              longer quilt, or do you think that the current length of 84" would suffice?

              Thanks,

              -howie

              > Howie,
              >
              > My current system is an 8'x4' (96"x48") cut piece, with whipped
              > ends. The 4' width works great for me, but after many nights in the
              > 8' length, I've determined it's just a might bit short, mostly
              > causing tightness and compression of my feet over the course of the
              > night. It's tolerable, but an extra 6" will probably make it
              > perfect. I'm 5'10" tall, so take that into account when you compare
              > to your own needs/desires.
              >
              > Shane "Mirage"...
            • Mirage
              ... quilt is 84 long while your ... the hammock for the ... the hammock near the end? ... you need to make a ... suffice? Howie, You are correct in your
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy" <jeremy@j...> wrote:

                > Your post raises an interesting question for me, however. Your
                quilt is 84" long while your
                > hammock is 96" long, correct? Does the quilt just bunch up around
                the hammock for the
                > end 6 inches on each side? If so, doesn't it limit the spread of
                the hammock near the end?
                > And if you went to a longer hammock (even just 6" longer), would
                you need to make a
                > longer quilt, or do you think that the current length of 84" would
                suffice?

                Howie,

                You are correct in your observation, in fact the quilt is shorter
                than the hammock and when applied, is actually ~4-6" to the inside
                of each end of the hammock knot/whipping.

                In practice, since the Hammock body is not perfectly straight (end
                to end) when hung, it is actually shorter than 8', plus the quilt,
                having a larger girth than the hammock with me in it and being 14"
                longer than me, can still accomodate me comfortably.

                When I get in the hammock, w/out the quilt, the head and feet are
                very tight and narrow for the first 6-8 inches, so I don't really
                occupy that part of the hammock anyway. The quilt still fits around
                me completely w/ no constriction, except, as noted in an earlier
                message, for the shoulder to hip girth. That's why I am thinking of
                making making a "wedge" insert. I could make the bags wider, or
                tapered at either end, more like the peapod I suspect, but I've got
                4 bags I've made this way, and want to get them working better.

                So, short story is yes, you are correct, but i'ts not an issue, for
                me, based on my experience. It was not an intentional design
                feature by any means, but it works never-the-less. The drawstring
                at the ends gets pulled through the grossgrain loops at the corners,
                and then tied in a slip knot on the hammock rope, just above the
                whipped end. This keeps it from sliding laterally. I also do not
                cinch the ends down tightly, just enough to close the gap around the
                hammock body.

                Anyway, long post that probably adds more confusion than clarity.
                Keep asking though. I don't mind the questions and by no means
                claim to have the end-all, be-all solution, just one step in a
                progressive iteration that works for me right now. Besides, I love
                the creative process of design and experimentation. No offense will
                be taken to any questions asked in sincere curiostiy.

                Shane "Mirage"...
              • Jeremy
                Mirage, Definately all good info to have, thanks for your willingness to share. It is greatly appreciated. At this point, I haven t decided if I want to
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
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                  Mirage,

                  Definately all good info to have, thanks for your willingness to share. It is greatly
                  appreciated.

                  At this point, I haven't decided if I want to attempt an over/under quilt (i.e. peapod style),
                  or a dedicated underquilt (i.e. Canoeblue/Thru-hiker style) with a dedicated top quilt (did I
                  mention that I make a killer down quilt?).

                  But I must say, after just walking in from a 28*F night, I'm leaning toward the over/under
                  style. I had the hammock stuffed into my old Marmot 0*F Never Summer bag, and was
                  toasty the whole night (in fact, too warm at some points..if you can believe it). I probably
                  would have even been warmer if it had been able to reach beyond my chest and cover my
                  shoulders/neck/head, but I used a down jacket under those parts (albeit still inside the
                  hammock) and was OK.

                  This was also quite possibly the most claustrophobic night I've ever spent in my hammock,
                  and something I wanted to ask you about. When my alarm woke me up, I shot awake, and
                  was literally reaching for the outside of the hammock. I'm guessing this feeling is
                  lessened with the wider dimensions on your quilt, and narrower dimensions of your
                  hammock (I used a 60" wide hammock last night)? I've only felt the feeling of
                  clasutrophobia once or twice in my life before, so I'm just as apt to blame it on the cold
                  I'm trying to recover from as the dimensions of the hammock.

                  Otherwise, do you care to speculate whether you'd need to create a longer quilt if you
                  went to a hammock that was 6" longer, or do you think that the same quilt dimensions
                  would suffice?

                  The end of the bag (where it "cinched" around the end of the hammock did create a
                  trouble spot for drafts. I was able to stuff my large cotton storage sack that I carry
                  everything over to the woods in into the end of the hammock which kinda stopped the
                  draft, but I was wondering if you ever had a problem with that, how you stopped it if you
                  did, or whether your quilt was better at eliminating drafts at the ends.

                  BTW, my previous "low" before speer-style hammocks was 45. That's all I could get out of
                  a couple of pads and a sleeping bag inside. Now that I can wrap a sleeping bag around
                  the outside, however, I might could push this hammock thing into the teens or single
                  didgits with no additional "gear" than I used last night.

                  Weight totals: hammock (with all ropes and tree huggers) 10oz
                  Sleeping bag: 36oz
                  Down jacket: 22oz
                  total: 68oz -or- 4.25lbs

                  Not bad for just "standard" gear. Can't wait to make some myself to get the weight down
                  even more.

                  Thanks again,

                  -howie

                  >
                  > Howie,
                  >
                  > You are correct in your observation, in fact the quilt is shorter
                  > than the hammock and when applied, is actually ~4-6" to the inside
                  > of each end of the hammock knot/whipping.
                  >
                  > In practice, since the Hammock body is not perfectly straight (end
                  > to end) when hung, it is actually shorter than 8', plus the quilt,
                  > having a larger girth than the hammock with me in it and being 14"
                  > longer than me, can still accomodate me comfortably.
                  >
                  > When I get in the hammock, w/out the quilt, the head and feet are
                  > very tight and narrow for the first 6-8 inches, so I don't really
                  > occupy that part of the hammock anyway. The quilt still fits around
                  > me completely w/ no constriction, except, as noted in an earlier
                  > message, for the shoulder to hip girth. That's why I am thinking of
                  > making making a "wedge" insert. I could make the bags wider, or
                  > tapered at either end, more like the peapod I suspect, but I've got
                  > 4 bags I've made this way, and want to get them working better.
                  >
                  > So, short story is yes, you are correct, but i'ts not an issue, for
                  > me, based on my experience. It was not an intentional design
                  > feature by any means, but it works never-the-less. The drawstring
                  > at the ends gets pulled through the grossgrain loops at the corners,
                  > and then tied in a slip knot on the hammock rope, just above the
                  > whipped end. This keeps it from sliding laterally. I also do not
                  > cinch the ends down tightly, just enough to close the gap around the
                  > hammock body.
                  >
                  > Anyway, long post that probably adds more confusion than clarity.
                  > Keep asking though. I don't mind the questions and by no means
                  > claim to have the end-all, be-all solution, just one step in a
                  > progressive iteration that works for me right now. Besides, I love
                  > the creative process of design and experimentation. No offense will
                  > be taken to any questions asked in sincere curiostiy.
                  >
                  > Shane "Mirage"...
                • Ray Garlington
                  ... I just pull out about 2 to 3 inches at the hemmed ... I put a drawing in the photo section that might help: http://tinyurl.com/46ctw
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
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                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, woody woodrich
                    <fatherrules@y...> wrote:
                    > Ray, what do you mean when you say you 'pull out'
                    > facric before whipping? Thanks, Woody in DC
                    > --- Ray Garlington <rgarling@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    I just pull out about 2 to 3 inches at the hemmed
                    > end before
                    > whipping. That allows the edge of the hammock to
                    > pull taught when
                    > occupied.

                    I put a drawing in the photo section that might help:

                    http://tinyurl.com/46ctw
                  • zippydooda
                    Right before you whip (or tie, or sheet bend), if you pull the edges of the material about 2 or 3 inches on each end, then the fabric at the edge is shorter
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
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                      Right before you whip (or tie, or sheet bend), if you pull the edges
                      of the material about 2 or 3 inches on each end, then the fabric at
                      the edge is shorter than the fabric in the middle, which cuts down on
                      floppy edges. Making sense?

                      Bill in Houston

                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington"
                      <rgarling@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, woody woodrich
                      > <fatherrules@y...> wrote:
                      > > Ray, what do you mean when you say you 'pull out'
                      > > facric before whipping? Thanks, Woody in DC
                      > > --- Ray Garlington <rgarling@y...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > I just pull out about 2 to 3 inches at the hemmed
                      > > end before
                      > > whipping. That allows the edge of the hammock to
                      > > pull taught when
                      > > occupied.
                      >
                      > I put a drawing in the photo section that might help:
                      >
                      > http://tinyurl.com/46ctw
                    • Mirage
                      ... over/under quilt (i.e. peapod style), ... dedicated top quilt (did I ... I had guessed that you were Howie of Hungry Howie fame ;) I actually built the
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
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                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy" <jeremy@j...> wrote:

                        > At this point, I haven't decided if I want to attempt an
                        over/under quilt (i.e. peapod style),
                        > or a dedicated underquilt (i.e. Canoeblue/Thru-hiker style) with a
                        dedicated top quilt (did I
                        > mention that I make a killer down quilt?).

                        I had guessed that you were Howie of "Hungry Howie" fame ;)

                        I actually built the canoeblue underquilt from the plans on thru-
                        hiker first, but just couldn't leave well enough alone, and wanted
                        an item more versitle (use it on the ground as a bag when trees
                        aren't available or local regulations require shelter use or temps
                        drop too low). So I kept experimenting and here we are today. This
                        is fun stuff, even if it never "ends" ;)

                        > This was also quite possibly the most claustrophobic night I've
                        ever spent in my hammock,
                        > and something I wanted to ask you about. When my alarm woke me
                        up, I shot awake, and
                        > was literally reaching for the outside of the hammock. I'm
                        guessing this feeling is
                        > lessened with the wider dimensions on your quilt, and narrower
                        dimensions of your
                        > hammock (I used a 60" wide hammock last night)? I've only felt
                        the feeling of
                        > clasutrophobia once or twice in my life before, so I'm just as apt
                        to blame it on the cold
                        > I'm trying to recover from as the dimensions of the hammock.

                        I've not felt that, but with the velcor slit being on the top, just
                        stretching in the morning wil readily crack open the quilt. I
                        actually often sleep with it open about 1/3 of the way anyway,
                        except on really cold nights.

                        Bear in mind too, I live in a pretty temperate area (PNW) and don't
                        get out in the hills much during the winter months.

                        >
                        > Otherwise, do you care to speculate whether you'd need to create a
                        longer quilt if you
                        > went to a hammock that was 6" longer, or do you think that the
                        same quilt dimensions
                        > would suffice?

                        Excelent point. My current 8' hammock was not my first. I don't
                        have the measurements from my original speer hammock, but it was
                        made from the instructions in his book, so we can probably figure it
                        out.

                        Also note that this quilt does rig well under my Hennessy Asym
                        Backpacker. You do still need a top quilt, and I was trying to
                        avoid that, so I have moved to the speer style and it's various
                        derivatives (ala Risk and others).

                        >
                        > The end of the bag (where it "cinched" around the end of the
                        hammock did create a
                        > trouble spot for drafts. I was able to stuff my large cotton
                        storage sack that I carry
                        > everything over to the woods in into the end of the hammock which
                        kinda stopped the
                        > draft, but I was wondering if you ever had a problem with that,
                        how you stopped it if you
                        > did, or whether your quilt was better at eliminating drafts at the
                        ends.

                        Yes, I have noticed this before, and like you, stuffed extra clothes
                        down there (Frog Toggs in my case). It's only happened once or
                        twice when it got really cold. Otherwise, it actually helps with
                        ventilation a wee bit.

                        Shane "Mirage"...
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