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1" webbing and D-rings

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  • jwj32542
    Does anyone know the working load of single-layer 1 nylon webbing? REI won t tell me since it s not intended for climbing, and I don t want to order a bunch
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 19, 2005
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      Does anyone know the working load of single-layer 1" nylon webbing?
      REI won't tell me since it's not intended for climbing, and I don't
      want to order a bunch of it if it's not strong enough. I'm guessing
      that, if REI's product is like Hennessey's tree huggers, it'll be
      fine...but they won't even tell me that!

      http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?
      storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=2157&parent_category_rn=
      5404695&vcat=REI_SEARCH

      Also, Bear - what size D-rings did you use for your buckles?

      Jeff
    • Rami
      ... [[R:]] Look for one side of the webbing to have a yellow or black stripe woven into the webbing. This is the required indicator for U.S. Military standard
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 19, 2005
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        > Does anyone know the working load of single-layer 1" nylon webbing?
        > REI won't tell me since it's not intended for climbing, and I don't
        > want to order a bunch of it if it's not strong enough. I'm guessing
        > that, if REI's product is like Hennessey's tree huggers, it'll be
        > fine...but they won't even tell me that!

        [[R:]]

        Look for one side of the webbing to have a yellow or black stripe woven
        into the webbing. This is the required indicator for U.S. Military
        standard webbing. It is required to have a rating of at least 18 kN
        (roughly 4000 lb) and should fit your bill quite nicely.

        !! Keep in mind that this is for flat webbing not tubular. !!

        the kN rating is what is used for climbing gear. 1 kN =(+/-) 225 lbs
        but this does not take into account the dynamic AND static criteria many
        gear makers use to determine the failure load for their gear.

        Hope this helps

        --
        -r

        Pressure
        -------
        Grace
      • Rick
        Jeff, I d strongly recommend against nylon webbing for all the reasons Ed Speer explains in detail in his book. Mainly, it stretches. Polyester or
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 19, 2005
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          Jeff,

          I'd strongly recommend against nylon webbing for all the reasons Ed
          Speer explains in detail in his book. Mainly, it stretches. Polyester
          or Polypropyline are much better adapted for hammock camping. It is
          good to have webbing which will hold at least 600 pounds. You are
          right, finding webbing that is marked with strength is difficult.

          Rick

          jwj32542 wrote:

          >Does anyone know the working load of single-layer 1" nylon webbing?
          >REI won't tell me since it's not intended for climbing, and I don't
          >want to order a bunch of it if it's not strong enough. I'm guessing
          >that, if REI's product is like Hennessey's tree huggers, it'll be
          >fine...but they won't even tell me that!
          >
          >http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?
          >storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=2157&parent_category_rn=
          >5404695&vcat=REI_SEARCH
          >
          >Also, Bear - what size D-rings did you use for your buckles?
          >
          >Jeff
          >
        • Ed Speer
          I missed this one-thanks for the question Jeff and your response Rick. I d like to expand a bit on Jeff s question and address a few other concerns of
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 20, 2005
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            I missed this one—thanks for the question Jeff and your response Rick.  I’d like to expand a bit on Jeff’s question and address a few other concerns of probable interest to the hammock maker.  Although comparing the same width of webbing, there are still wildly differing features to consider.  Most 1-inch wide single layer webbing comes in ‘Heavy Weave’, Stiff Weave’, ‘Soft Weave, etc.  These all have different breaking strengths and different stretch characteristics.  Unfortunately most sales clerks in retail stores that sell webbing don’t know the breaking strength of the webbing offered; even many manufacturers don’t list the breaking strength on the package.  If the breaking strength is not listed on the manufacturer’s package, it’s probably 350 or less!—buyer be ware and do NOT use any webbing with unknown breaking strength.  Use only +600 pound breaking strength webbing—I recommend, use and sell +750 pound.  For folks over 250 pounds, I recommend +1,000 pound breaking strength—this generally requires 1.5” wide single layer webbing.

             

            Now let’s consider different webbing material:

             

            Nylon and polypropylene webbing all stretch and nylon is stronger, but it stretches differently than polypropylene.  For hammocks the high-memory stretch of nylon is unsuitable since it returns to its original length every time the load is removed.  It can be impossible to properly adjust the hammock—the hammock is pulled tight, but your butt hits the ground when you get in; you get out to adjust and the hammock springs back to its tight position!  The low-memory stretch of polypropylene is desirable since it retains its length when the load is removed—thus allowing the hammock to remain adjusted once the straps are stretched out the first time.  This may not make much sense in writing, but the differences become readily evident in actual use!  Again I recommend, use and sell polypropylene webbing.

             

            Polyester webbing is a good choice, but it’s near impossible to buy in small amounts for reasonable money.  Polyester webbing hardly stretches at all and is stronger than polypropylene (but not as strong as nylon).  It is made by special order only, meaning 20,000 yds at a time—once I found 200 yds for sell as overruns, but don’t have any left.

             

            Also, it is virtually impossible for me to visibly distinguish between nylon, polypropylene or polyester webbing—again buyer be ware and insist on seeing the manufactures packaging. 

             

            My book goes into a bit more explanation about suitable webbing, but this is the gist of it. 

             

            Hope this helps Jeff.  Happy hammocking….Ed

             

             


            From: Rick [mailto:ra1@...]
            Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 10:18 PM
            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] 1" webbing and D-rings

             

            Jeff,

            I'd strongly recommend against nylon webbing for all the reasons Ed
            Speer explains in detail in his book. Mainly, it stretches.  Polyester
            or Polypropyline are much better adapted for hammock camping.  It is
            good to have webbing which will hold at least 600 pounds.  You are
            right, finding webbing that is marked with strength is difficult.

            Rick

            jwj32542 wrote:

            >Does anyone know the working load of single-layer 1" nylon webbing? 
            >REI won't tell me since it's not intended for climbing, and I don't
            >want to order a bunch of it if it's not strong enough.  I'm guessing
            >that, if REI's product is like Hennessey's tree huggers, it'll be
            >fine...but they won't even tell me that!
            >
            >http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?
            >storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=2157&parent_category_rn=
            >5404695&vcat=REI_SEARCH
            >
            >Also, Bear - what size D-rings did you use for your buckles?
            >
            >Jeff
            >




          • Jeremy
            It should be noted as well that whether you use nylon or polypropylene is more important depending on which type of hammock suspension system you use. A
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 20, 2005
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              It should be noted as well that whether you use nylon or polypropylene is more important
              depending on which type of hammock suspension system you use. A hennessy style
              suspension, with a very small amount of webbing (just the tree huggers), uses nylon
              webbing, and with no noticable ill effects. Using webbing for the entire suspension
              system, however, a la Speer, magnifies those unnoticable ill effects into a true problem.
              Additionally, Hennessy's are typically hung higher (because of a bottom entry/exit) than
              Speer hammocks (side entry/exit), further exacerbating the problem for Speer users, who
              would use nylon webbing.

              -howie

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <ed@s...> wrote:
              > I missed this one-thanks for the question Jeff and your response Rick. I'd
              > like to expand a bit on Jeff's question and address a few other concerns of
              > probable interest to the hammock maker. Although comparing the same width
              > of webbing, there are still wildly differing features to consider. Most
              > 1-inch wide single layer webbing comes in 'Heavy Weave', Stiff Weave', 'Soft
              > Weave, etc. These all have different breaking strengths and different
              > stretch characteristics. Unfortunately most sales clerks in retail stores
              > that sell webbing don't know the breaking strength of the webbing offered;
              > even many manufacturers don't list the breaking strength on the package. If
              > the breaking strength is not listed on the manufacturer's package, it's
              > probably 350 or less!-buyer be ware and do NOT use any webbing with unknown
              > breaking strength. Use only +600 pound breaking strength webbing-I
              > recommend, use and sell +750 pound. For folks over 250 pounds, I recommend
              > +1,000 pound breaking strength-this generally requires 1.5" wide single
              > layer webbing.
              >
              >
              >
              > Now let's consider different webbing material:
              >
              >
              >
              > Nylon and polypropylene webbing all stretch and nylon is stronger, but it
              > stretches differently than polypropylene. For hammocks the high-memory
              > stretch of nylon is unsuitable since it returns to its original length every
              > time the load is removed. It can be impossible to properly adjust the
              > hammock-the hammock is pulled tight, but your butt hits the ground when you
              > get in; you get out to adjust and the hammock springs back to its tight
              > position! The low-memory stretch of polypropylene is desirable since it
              > retains its length when the load is removed-thus allowing the hammock to
              > remain adjusted once the straps are stretched out the first time. This may
              > not make much sense in writing, but the differences become readily evident
              > in actual use! Again I recommend, use and sell polypropylene webbing.
              >
              >
              >
              > Polyester webbing is a good choice, but it's near impossible to buy in small
              > amounts for reasonable money. Polyester webbing hardly stretches at all and
              > is stronger than polypropylene (but not as strong as nylon). It is made by
              > special order only, meaning 20,000 yds at a time-once I found 200 yds for
              > sell as overruns, but don't have any left.
              >
              >
              >
              > Also, it is virtually impossible for me to visibly distinguish between
              > nylon, polypropylene or polyester webbing-again buyer be ware and insist on
              > seeing the manufactures packaging.
              >
              >
              >
              > My book goes into a bit more explanation about suitable webbing, but this is
              > the gist of it.
              >
              >
              >
              > Hope this helps Jeff. Happy hammocking..Ed
            • jwj32542
              ... polypropylene is more important ... hennessy style ... huggers), uses nylon ... entire suspension ... effects into a true problem. ... bottom entry/exit)
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 20, 2005
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy" <jeremy@j...> wrote:
                > It should be noted as well that whether you use nylon or
                polypropylene is more important
                > depending on which type of hammock suspension system you use. A
                hennessy style
                > suspension, with a very small amount of webbing (just the tree
                huggers), uses nylon
                > webbing, and with no noticable ill effects. Using webbing for the
                entire suspension
                > system, however, a la Speer, magnifies those unnoticable ill
                effects into a true problem.
                > Additionally, Hennessy's are typically hung higher (because of a
                bottom entry/exit) than
                > Speer hammocks (side entry/exit), further exacerbating the problem
                for Speer users, who
                > would use nylon webbing.

                Very true. On my first homemade hammock, I tried to use parachute
                cord. I tied it as tight as I could, chest-high, and still ended up
                with my butt on the ground!

                I switched to Spectra from the kite-surfing store and haven't had a
                problem since. It's a little thicker than Hennessey's, but the next
                smaller size they carried had no inner core so I wasn't sure it
                would be strong enough.

                FWIW, this will be my first experience with webbing on a hammock,
                and I just ordered Ed's polypro webbing.

                Jeff
              • David Chinell
                Jeff: I had four straps made by these people: http://www.hoggans.com/ They do custom work. What I got is almost a standard item with them, called a gas can
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 21, 2005
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                  Jeff:

                  I had four straps made by these people:

                  http://www.hoggans.com/

                  They do custom work. What I got is almost a standard item
                  with them, called a gas can strap. Scroll down this page:

                  http://www.hoggans.com/canvas-products/webbing.html

                  I asked them to make the strapping in polyester and rated
                  for a 600 lb load. They did all the rest.

                  I haven't got the straps with me, but I'd say the D-rings
                  were made of a wire that's over 1/8-inch in diameter, but
                  less than 3/16-inches. They're welded at the join.

                  I'm in favor of you volunteering to experiment with the
                  cheap, readily available D-rings you might cut off of a
                  dog's leash, and see if they dump you on the ground. (The
                  metal kind, I mean. NO plastic!)

                  Bear
                • jwj32542
                  ... Right...I ll let you know how that goes... Actually, I was going to start at Lowe s and Home Depot, then move on to climbing stores. If that doesn t work,
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 21, 2005
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                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                    <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                    > I'm in favor of you volunteering to experiment with the
                    > cheap, readily available D-rings you might cut off of a
                    > dog's leash, and see if they dump you on the ground. (The
                    > metal kind, I mean. NO plastic!)

                    Right...I'll let you know how that goes...

                    Actually, I was going to start at Lowe's and Home Depot, then move
                    on to climbing stores. If that doesn't work, maybe I'll buy some
                    dog leashes. Better be some big dogs!

                    Jeff
                  • Chuck Haak
                    Back in my climbing days (decades ago), the climbing shops sold rappel rings that were used at rappel anchors. They were circular rings about 1.5 in
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 21, 2005
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                      Back in my climbing days (decades ago), the climbing shops sold 'rappel
                      rings' that were used at rappel anchors. They were circular rings about
                      1.5" in diameter. They were very strong and quite light. I don't know if
                      they are still available, but it might be worth a look.

                      Pbmoo4
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