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Subject: Re:staying warm in Hennessy hammock/Horsethief bag

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  • ptoddf@aol.com
    Stephanie, I was just lying in my Horsethief on the floor, figuring how to use it in hammock I m making. Problem with this bag is no hood. I haven t found a
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 22, 2004
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      Stephanie,
       
      I was just lying in my Horsethief on the floor, figuring how to use it in hammock I'm making. Problem with this bag is no hood. I haven't found a way to make it work comfortably when it's colder. This bag is roomy enough for plenty of layering, but if it's that cold some real head and neck warmth is essential, I find. Using the strange neck closure as a pseudo hood doesn't work for me at all. Keeps coming loose. What are you doing for head/neck warmth when it's below freezing?
       
      I did rip out the loose bag thing used for stuffing with clothes for a pillow, and use a piece of an airline pillow hand stitched into the upper end of the pad sleeve instead. The hanging down-stuffed neck dam is next to go. Looks like the upper bag edge can be rolled and tacked down to make an air dam if a hood is used.
       
      The finbar hood from finnovations.org looks to me like it's worth a try with this bag. Proof of concept kind of thing, dual use item too.
       
      I saw the Zirkel you mentioned when it first came out and it is an excellent bag, also roomy enough for plenty of layering, and it is hooded. But it's too warm and heavy for my usual 3 season uses, too bad.
       
      Best, Todd in Tarzana.
    • jack_tier
      Because I use only quilts year round I always carry a fleece balaclava with cheek pad covers. This is plenty warm to about 40 degrees in a well sited HH. In
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 22, 2004
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        Because I use only quilts year round I always carry a fleece
        balaclava with cheek pad covers. This is plenty warm to about 40
        degrees in a well sited HH. In the winter, I add a fleece or wool
        Watch cap. Works good into the low 20s. Below that I'd go for a
        field fix of my rain jacket with hood. Or add a pair of socks
        between the balaclava and watch cap. Obviously, if you leave
        expecting colder weather take another hat or hood, and or a neck
        gaiter. Don't see lack of a hood as a problem IMHO. At least you
        won't be breathing into an enclosed hood/bag and adding moisture
        thereby reducing the bag efficiency; as well as, adding weight for
        the next days hike.

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, ptoddf@a... wrote:
        > Stephanie,
        >
        > I was just lying in my Horsethief on the floor, figuring how to
        use it in
        > hammock I'm making. Problem with this bag is no hood. I haven't
        found a way to
        > make it work comfortably when it's colder. This bag is roomy
        enough for plenty
        > of layering, but if it's that cold some real head and neck warmth
        is essential,
        > I find. Using the strange neck closure as a pseudo hood doesn't
        work for me
        > at all. Keeps coming loose. What are you doing for head/neck
        warmth when it's
        > below freezing?
        >
        > I did rip out the loose bag thing used for stuffing with clothes
        for a
        > pillow, and use a piece of an airline pillow hand stitched into
        the upper end of the
        > pad sleeve instead. The hanging down-stuffed neck dam is next to
        go. Looks
        > like the upper bag edge can be rolled and tacked down to make an
        air dam if a
        > hood is used.
        >
        > The finbar hood from finnovations.org looks to me like it's worth
        a try with
        > this bag. Proof of concept kind of thing, dual use item too.
        >
        > I saw the Zirkel you mentioned when it first came out and it is an
        excellent
        > bag, also roomy enough for plenty of layering, and it is hooded.
        But it's too
        > warm and heavy for my usual 3 season uses, too bad.
        >
        > Best, Todd in Tarzana.
      • Rick
        ... I have successfully used a homemade fleece balaclava and the PSolar balaclava is great for really cold nights. http://www.imrisk.com/ultrabaclava.htm
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 24, 2004
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          ptoddf@... wrote:

          > Problem with this bag is no hood. I haven't found a way to make it
          > work comfortably when it's colder. This bag is roomy enough for plenty
          > of layering, but if it's that cold some real head and neck warmth is
          > essential, I find. Using the strange neck closure as a pseudo hood
          > doesn't work for me at all. Keeps coming loose. What are you doing for
          > head/neck warmth when it's below freezing?

          I have successfully used a homemade fleece balaclava and the PSolar
          balaclava is great for really cold nights.

          http://www.imrisk.com/ultrabaclava.htm

          http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Clothing/Hats/Psolar%20Balaclava/Rick%20Allnutt%20III/

          Risk
        • stephanie
          Hi Todd, The neck closure thingie on the Horsethief I still have not really figured out. I m really not sure I m using it right, specifically, where that
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 27, 2004
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            Hi Todd,

            The neck closure thingie on the Horsethief I still have not really
            figured out. I'm really not sure I'm using it right, specifically,
            where that drawcord is supposed to end up when it is tightened (under
            your chin?). There seems to be a lot of extra material in this area,
            making me think I may not be using it as intended. I like the pillow
            pocket, although in the hammock it isn't necessary for me.

            I just got back from my second trip with the Horsethief, although
            this time I could not use a hammock and was sleeping on the ground
            for the first time in a couple of years! I was in Joshua Tree NP.

            The first trip, after which I posted,it got down to the low 30's and
            I was in the hammock. I have a generic fleece balaclava. This has
            just the one opening for eyes,nose, mouth, but comes down far enough
            to cover my neck. I was warm enough although at times I woke up
            finding I had pulled the bag over my mouth and was "breathing into
            it", which apparently is undesirable.

            This trip I just got back from, the temperatures got down to 25F
            (unexpectadly), which is well below the 35 degree rating for the bag.
            My body felt warm (wearing my MEC Northern Lite jacket), and I wore
            my balaclava with a goofy looking GoLite Snow Cap that I just bought
            for 9 dollars over it. My head in general was warm, but my nose gets
            cold. I need to get a balaclava that has a way to cover my tender
            nose. That Psolar that Rick mentioned sounds good. That Finbar hood
            looks very nice. A Nunatak (spelling?) balaclava looks super, but
            too costly for my budget. My feet did get cold on one night. I felt
            like there was too much room in the footbox for my body heat to warm
            it up. I normally sleep with thick wool socks on, but they were not
            cutting the mustard. I am looking into down booties but the ones I
            have found seem to weigh a lot more than I would expect. Because they
            are designed to be walked around in. I see on the Finbar site they
            have some synthetic "bag booties" designed to be worn in the bag, so
            they might be lighter, but they don't list a weight. When you add the
            weight of all this stuff you almost might as well have the weight in
            a warmer bag, but I guess the upside is that you can use the other
            items during the day as well, so they are multi-use. I still want a
            Zirkel if they are true to their stated weight...I think the
            Horsethief is going to work great for me for the majority of the year.

            stephanie




            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, ptoddf@a... wrote:
            > Stephanie,
            >
            > I was just lying in my Horsethief on the floor, figuring how to use
            it in
            > hammock I'm making. Problem with this bag is no hood. I haven't
            found a way to
            > make it work comfortably when it's colder. This bag is roomy enough
            for plenty
            > of layering, but if it's that cold some real head and neck warmth
            is essential,
            > I find. Using the strange neck closure as a pseudo hood doesn't
            work for me
            > at all. Keeps coming loose. What are you doing for head/neck warmth
            when it's
            > below freezing?
            >
          • Rick
            ... When my feet are cold, it is usually not because of a lack of insulation over them. It is because I am cold. I generally find that putting better
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 27, 2004
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              stephanie wrote:

              > My feet did get cold on one night. I felt
              >like there was too much room in the footbox for my body heat to warm
              >it up. I normally sleep with thick wool socks on, but they were not
              >cutting the mustard.
              >
              When my feet are cold, it is usually not because of a lack of insulation
              over them. It is because I am cold. I generally find that putting
              better insulation around my head makes my feet get warm.

              Risk
            • Dave Womble
              ... wrote: ... My head in general was warm, but my nose gets cold. ... My feet did get cold on one night. ... Stephanie, I have a couple of ideas for you.
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 27, 2004
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "stephanie" <sswaim63@s...>
                wrote:
                "... My head in general was warm, but my nose gets cold. ... My feet
                did get cold on one night. ..."

                Stephanie,

                I have a couple of ideas for you.

                First, if your nose and/or mouth get cold you can cover them with a
                breathable fabric, such as a bandana or fleece neck gaitor and get
                much relief. They tend to get moist from when you exhale but that is
                a good thing, because you get to reuse the moisture when you inhale
                and are less likely to get a sore throat from breathing in cold dry
                air all night. It also keeps your nose and mouth warmer. They don't
                have to be super breathable while you are sleeping since you aren't
                exerting yourself and using lots of oxygen.

                Second, cold feet can be addressed pretty easily by using a small
                plastic bag as a vapor barrier over each foot. I use the small trash
                bag liners; I think 4 of them weigh about an ounce and they are good
                for lots of things. I have used them as over-mittens on peoples
                hands in cold, wet or windy weather as well and in really nasty
                weather you can use one under your hat or cap. For my feet I like to
                use the thinnest nylon or synthetic sock I can find as a liner, then
                the plastic bag followed by light weight fleece sleeping socks. The
                vapor barrier liner on your feet make a tremendous difference and
                usually the liner socks usually only get a tad damp. You may find
                yourself having to take off the plastic bags sometimes because your
                feet get too warm.

                I have a third thing also. Neck gaiters are very light and add a lot
                of warmth by closing off air leaks at your neck and shoulders. They
                help with jackets, sleeping quilts and sleeping bags. I think one
                would be worth trying to see if it will help the seal with your
                sleeping bags hood. I don't go backpacking in cool weather without
                one.

                Youngblood
              • Dave Womble
                I forgot to mention about wind-stopper fleece and neck gaitors. My fleece neck gaitor does not use wind-stopper fleece. I haven t used wind-stopper fleece
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 27, 2004
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                  I forgot to mention about wind-stopper fleece and neck gaitors. My
                  fleece neck gaitor does not use wind-stopper fleece. I haven't used
                  wind-stopper fleece and don't know how well you might be able to
                  breath through it but would expect that it would be more difficult to
                  breath thought. It might not work to well as a face covering.

                  Youngblood
                • ptoddf@aol.com
                  Stephanie, Good comments on Horsethief, thanks. If you come up with anything better for the neck closure, please post it. I think that removing the pendular
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 27, 2004
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                    Stephanie,
                     
                    Good comments on Horsethief, thanks. If you come up with anything better for the neck closure, please post it. I think that removing the pendular neck dam thing and just rolling the top edge down inside one baffle or less might do it for me. Should make a much better fit and an effective air dam. I'm going to hand stitch it removably and try it. Along with the Finbar hood, which as you point out, is affordably priced in comparison to high end down models.
                     
                    Later on, if I hit the combo of things that really work just right in hammock, I'd be willing to spring for higher end, maybe custom stuff. But not until I'm 100% sure of what works. I'm experimenting with gear I already own, slicing and dicing it, to get there.
                     
                    Best, Todd in Tarzana.
                  • stephanie
                    Thanks a lot for the suggestions...I now think I m going to get one of those Psolar Balaclavas after reading the reviews of them on BGT. Even though I can t
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 27, 2004
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                      Thanks a lot for the suggestions...I now think I'm going to get one
                      of those Psolar Balaclavas after reading the reviews of them on BGT.
                      Even though I can't find them on sale anywhere (I'm so cheap LOL)I
                      think that preferring to breath warm air is why I wake up sometimes
                      breathing into my sleeping bag. And I'm going to try the plastic
                      baggies for my feet. I usually hike in those very thin black nylon
                      men's dress socks (I haven't hiked in temperatures below about 20F)
                      and carry a thick pair of woolish socks to sleep in. Sounds like the
                      thin socks would be good to use under the trash baggies. I like the
                      idea as you said there is often other uses for those baggies. I've
                      been looking around this afternoon and Campmor has what look
                      like "windstopper" knock offs cheap. They have a neck gaiter for
                      9.99 weighing 2.3 oz and some convertable mitts called "windban" on
                      sale for 16.99 weighing 3.5 oz. I think it is likely true that my
                      feet were cold because my head or rest of my body was using up all
                      the heating capacity even though they didn't feel cold.

                      Thanks again for all the suggestions!

                      stephanie

                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > I forgot to mention about wind-stopper fleece and neck gaitors. My
                      > fleece neck gaitor does not use wind-stopper fleece. I haven't
                      used
                      > wind-stopper fleece and don't know how well you might be able to
                      > breath through it but would expect that it would be more difficult
                      to
                      > breath thought. It might not work to well as a face covering.
                      >
                      > Youngblood
                    • stephanie
                      Todd, What I think I need to do is to get someone else to lay down in the Horsethief and use them as a guinea pig so I can t see what is going on with that
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 27, 2004
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                        Todd,

                        What I think I need to do is to get someone else to lay down in the
                        Horsethief and use them as a guinea pig so I can't see what is going
                        on with that neck area. I can't really tell what is going on to my
                        satisfaction when I'm laying in it myself! I read the reviews on BGT
                        but to no avail. I just need to see what it is intended to look like
                        when closed up. If I lay in the bag so that my head is on the pillow
                        pocket (and I assume the pillow pocket is supposed to be "inside" the
                        bag), and then I tighten the drawstring, the thing closes up across
                        my face with almost my whole head inside the bag. Unless I pull it
                        down under my chin which just doesn't work as it feels like
                        strangulation. So I don't use the drawstring, I just have been
                        tucking that down dam thingie around my neck. Hmmm..now I need to go
                        lie down in the bag again. Also, when I slept on the ground I used a
                        POE Insulmat inside the bag's pad sleeve. It inflates to about 2.5
                        inches (and is great..first time I've had any semblance of comfort
                        sleeping on the ground). In the hammock I used 3/8 inch foam pad plus
                        windshield reflector. I noticed that using the inflatable pad inside
                        the pad sleeve dramtically changed the fit of the bag, i.e. there was
                        much less room inside the bag.



                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, ptoddf@a... wrote:
                        > Stephanie,
                        >
                        > Good comments on Horsethief, thanks. If you come up with anything
                        better for
                        > the neck closure, please post it. I think that removing the
                        pendular neck dam
                        > thing and just rolling the top edge down inside one baffle or less
                        might do it
                        > for me. Should make a much better fit and an effective air dam. I'm
                        going to
                        > hand stitch it removably and try it. Along with the Finbar hood,
                        which as you
                        > point out, is affordably priced in comparison to high end down
                        models.
                        >
                      • Jackie Lynn Evans
                        Good evening, I researched the BA Horse Thief before buying a WM bag. I believe I have seen a picture depicting, as well as read, that the pillow sleeve goes
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 27, 2004
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                          Good evening,

                          I researched the BA Horse Thief before buying a WM bag.  I believe I have seen a picture depicting, as well as read, that the pillow sleeve goes on the outside.  I am not quiet sure about this.  Hope this info helps

                          Repeat/Jackie

                        • Coy
                          Hi Stephanie Just wondering if the pad sleeve with pad inside is what s going on. If the pad keeps the lower side from snugging up like most other sleeping
                          Message 12 of 15 , Nov 27, 2004
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                            Hi Stephanie

                            Just wondering if the pad sleeve with pad inside is what's going
                            on. If the pad keeps the lower side from snugging up like most
                            other sleeping bags I think this may be what is causing the funny
                            fit you describe when you try to adjust the face opening. I am not
                            familiar with the smaller BA bags but the Hog Park I tested for BGT
                            was a lot different than a normal bag on a pad. It kept the hood
                            from snugging around my head. I basically just adjusted it so I had
                            a hole to look out of. It felt much different becaus I'm used to a
                            snug fitting hood. I touched on this a little in my Hog Park review
                            but it may not apply that much to the Horse Thief.

                            Coy Boy

                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "stephanie" <sswaim63@s...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Todd,
                            >
                            > What I think I need to do is to get someone else to lay down in
                            the
                            > Horsethief and use them as a guinea pig so I can't see what is
                            going
                            > on with that neck area. I can't really tell what is going on to my
                            > satisfaction when I'm laying in it myself! I read the reviews on
                            BGT
                            > but to no avail. I just need to see what it is intended to look
                            like
                            > when closed up. If I lay in the bag so that my head is on the
                            pillow
                            > pocket (and I assume the pillow pocket is supposed to be "inside"
                            the
                            > bag), and then I tighten the drawstring, the thing closes up
                            across
                            > my face with almost my whole head inside the bag. Unless I pull it
                            > down under my chin which just doesn't work as it feels like
                            > strangulation. So I don't use the drawstring, I just have been
                            > tucking that down dam thingie around my neck. Hmmm..now I need to
                            go
                            > lie down in the bag again. Also, when I slept on the ground I used
                            a
                            > POE Insulmat inside the bag's pad sleeve. It inflates to about 2.5
                            > inches (and is great..first time I've had any semblance of comfort
                            > sleeping on the ground). In the hammock I used 3/8 inch foam pad
                            plus
                            > windshield reflector. I noticed that using the inflatable pad
                            inside
                            > the pad sleeve dramtically changed the fit of the bag, i.e. there
                            was
                            > much less room inside the bag.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, ptoddf@a... wrote:
                            > > Stephanie,
                            > >
                            > > Good comments on Horsethief, thanks. If you come up with
                            anything
                            > better for
                            > > the neck closure, please post it. I think that removing the
                            > pendular neck dam
                            > > thing and just rolling the top edge down inside one baffle or
                            less
                            > might do it
                            > > for me. Should make a much better fit and an effective air dam.
                            I'm
                            > going to
                            > > hand stitch it removably and try it. Along with the Finbar hood,
                            > which as you
                            > > point out, is affordably priced in comparison to high end down
                            > models.
                            > >
                          • stephanie
                            Hi Coy! Thanks for the input. The horse thief has no hood, but apparently your head is supposed to still lay inside the bag..I got this from one of the BGT
                            Message 13 of 15 , Nov 27, 2004
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                              Hi Coy! Thanks for the input. The horse thief has no hood, but
                              apparently your head is supposed to still lay inside the bag..I got
                              this from one of the BGT reviews, same with the pillow pocket being
                              on the inside...I did a google and found one image from
                              backpacking.net of a person in the bag....

                              http://www.backpacking.net/gear-reviews/horse-thief.jpg

                              I'm going to go right now and lay in my bag and see what my problem
                              is.

                              stephanie




                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Stephanie
                              >
                              > Just wondering if the pad sleeve with pad inside is what's going
                              > on. If the pad keeps the lower side from snugging up like most
                              > other sleeping bags I think this may be what is causing the funny
                              > fit you describe when you try to adjust the face opening. I am not
                              > familiar with the smaller BA bags but the Hog Park I tested for BGT
                              > was a lot different than a normal bag on a pad. It kept the hood
                              > from snugging around my head. I basically just adjusted it so I
                              had
                              > a hole to look out of. It felt much different becaus I'm used to a
                              > snug fitting hood. I touched on this a little in my Hog Park \
                              \
                            • Coy
                              I somehow missed that little detail. big differance LOL. OH well, I wish you luck in getting the neck opening to fit. Looking at that picture it almost
                              Message 14 of 15 , Nov 27, 2004
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                                I somehow missed that little detail. big differance LOL. OH well,
                                I wish you luck in getting the neck opening to fit. Looking at that
                                picture it almost looks like it is a half hood, whatever that is.

                                Coy Boy

                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "stephanie" <sswaim63@s...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Coy! Thanks for the input. The horse thief has no hood, but
                                > apparently your head is supposed to still lay inside the bag..I
                                got
                                > this from one of the BGT reviews, same with the pillow pocket
                                being
                                > on the inside...I did a google and found one image from
                                > backpacking.net of a person in the bag....
                                >
                                > http://www.backpacking.net/gear-reviews/horse-thief.jpg
                                >
                                > I'm going to go right now and lay in my bag and see what my
                                problem
                                > is.
                                >
                                > stephanie
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...>
                                wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hi Stephanie
                                > >
                                > > Just wondering if the pad sleeve with pad inside is what's going
                                > > on. If the pad keeps the lower side from snugging up like most
                                > > other sleeping bags I think this may be what is causing the
                                funny
                                > > fit you describe when you try to adjust the face opening. I am
                                not
                                > > familiar with the smaller BA bags but the Hog Park I tested for
                                BGT
                                > > was a lot different than a normal bag on a pad. It kept the
                                hood
                                > > from snugging around my head. I basically just adjusted it so I
                                > had
                                > > a hole to look out of. It felt much different becaus I'm used
                                to a
                                > > snug fitting hood. I touched on this a little in my Hog Park \
                                > \
                              • thecreekfisher
                                I have had my Horse Thief bag for about 5 months and I had not had any problems with the fit. I just cinch the drawcord nice and tight under my chin. I suspect
                                Message 15 of 15 , Nov 28, 2004
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                                  I have had my Horse Thief bag for about 5 months and I had not had
                                  any problems with the fit. I just cinch the drawcord nice and tight
                                  under my chin. I suspect that when I am in my bag, I look like the
                                  person in the photo ;)
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